FORUM WARNING [2] Division by zero (Line: 2933 of /srcsgcaop/boardclass.php) FORUM WARNING [2] Division by zero (Line: 2943 of /srcsgcaop/boardclass.php) It's open season for Malleus -
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Over at Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Indef_block_of_Malleus_Fatuorum_requires_review and assorted other places there are some cunts (to borrow Malleus's terminology) who resent the fact that some people respect productive editors who may occasionally be a bit rude more than the idiots who block them. Just goes to show that really do think Wikipedia is an MMORPG and not an exercise in creating an encyclopedia.
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The subtitle is a bit wrong. Quite a few admins are dicks! Some have even achieved what I'd have supposed an anatomical impossibility. They are simultaneously dicks and cunts!
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When will people realize that Wikipedia either can't allow non-content people to have any say there on any matter or the content people need to find a site with just themselves? Obviously, the people there to create an encyclopedia will never get along with the people there for... well, they are just there (why are they there? myspacing? boredom?).
I do like how much stuff that Malleus is able to get away with, but he never came before ArbCom which seems not to care about what the community thinks (and the community tends to be what ends up saving Malleus).
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QUOTE(Retrospect @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 1:07pm)
The subtitle is a bit wrong. Quite a few admins are dicks! Some have even achieved what I'd have supposed an anatomical impossibility. They are simultaneously dicks and cunts!
I avoided that version as I knew that I was going to repeat Malleus's comparison of certain admins with the corresponding female organ. Also my point was that the admins who blocked him are doing so as a show of male prowess as otherwise they would have felt emasculated by Malleus's contempt for them.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 2:02pm)
When will people realize that Wikipedia either can't allow non-content people to have any say there on any matter or the content people need to find a site with just themselves? Obviously, the people there to create an encyclopedia will never get along with the people there for... well, they are just there (why are they there? myspacing? boredom?).
I think the RFA process favours game-players over content creators because applicants have to be prepared to mouth the expected platitudes. Having once had a position of genuine responsibility where I had to avoided being cowed into defensive practice that a decision not to detain someone might increase the risk of someone dying or being seriously injured, I can't be arsed to go through some charade just to get the right to do the occasional extra duty on some two-bit website.
They ought to do a regular trawl those people who have produced a certain amount of featured or good content without being blocked and just give them the bit. It's far less risk-prone than the current process which favours adolescents who want to feel important.
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QUOTE(Eppur si muove @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 7:00am)
Over at Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Indef_block_of_Malleus_Fatuorum_requires_review and assorted other places there are some cunts (to borrow Malleus's terminology) who resent the fact that some people respect productive editors who may occasionally be a bit rude more than the idiots who block them. Just goes to show that really do think Wikipedia is an MMORPG and not an exercise in creating an encyclopedia.
The problem is when he calls a non-admin a "fucking cunt" well he sort of has a nice block coming to him.
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The Ed17 mentioned me:
QUOTE
This is similar in scope to the Ottava case of awhile back, except that Malleus actually works with people to improve articles and doesn't spin out wild conspiracy theories (sorry Ottava). We either just lost or are close to losing one of the few prolific copyeditors on the site, let alone one of the more productive content creators. Let's think this through before accepting. Ed talk majestic titan 16:09, 22 December 2011 (UTC)
I think it was more than proven that I worked with other editors (I have shared articles with over 30 people). But yes, isn't saying the RfA system is corrupt, broken, constantly calling admins "cunts" and other terms spinning out wild conspiracy theories? At least I pointed to two guys who tag teamed voted on over 200 AfDs and shared over 600 page edits with each other. The scope of my "conspiracy" was quite minimal. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
Some people just can't see the truth unless you shove it their faces spiced with a bit of pepper. I fully expect the outcome of ArbCom's deliberations to be rather similar to what happened to Ottava, but that's their loss, not mine.
Some people just can't see the truth unless you shove it their faces spiced with a bit of pepper. I fully expect the outcome of ArbCom's deliberations to be rather similar to what happened to Ottava, but that's their loss, not mine.
If you read the actual decision, 99% of what people threw against me were not considered. It boiled down to me saying that an academic was not respected (i.e. a hack) was a big no no (even though I had reliable sources to make it qualify under BLP (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)) and that my claim that Moreschi and Folantin were tag teaming was wrong even though, as they admitted, an outsider would see an obvious relationship between their edits. I love how Brad said that most of the claims against me didn't really qualify for ArbCom decision yet sought to ban me anyway. Basically, the decision was "regardless of what the facts are, we don't want him around".
Similar to the magical way of transforming my 1 year ban into an indefinite ban because they took the probation clause and said "an indef is probation, right?"
I had over 50 people come out in support of me and said they were full of it. You will have far, far more Malleus. I would expect that if any Arbitrator actually tried to do to you what they did to me that the Arbitrator would be banned. It would be satisfying. And it has precedence - Rlevse found out the hard way that he wasn't immune. It has already been revealed that many of those sitting are plagiarists and just as bad as he was. Once they cross the wrong people, they will swiftly find themselves on the outside. What goes around comes around, after all.
Some people just can't see the truth unless you shove it their faces spiced with a bit of pepper. I fully expect the outcome of ArbCom's deliberations to be rather similar to what happened to Ottava, but that's their loss, not mine.
I doubt it...they'll most likely just tell you to stop commenting on RFAs (which would still be their loss, not yours). Try as you might, you'll never come across as being as much of a bonkers asshole as Ottava. It's not something you can fake.
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Hahahahah
People are still taking this shit seriously??????
This has nothing to do with civility, and nothing to do with one side being mature. This is all about drama - lots and lots of drama.
Malleus is deliberately rude because it causes drama. The people who go after him go after him because it cases drama. They all enjoy it.
The feigned "admins are after the good writers - they'll run them all off", is just a crock of shit - because anyone with the intelligence to write good articles is quite intelligent enough to work out how to interact with sufficient civility to avoid drama - it is just that writing good articles isn't enough - they want drama, victim status and hero worship too.
The feigned "if we don't stamp on incivility the wiki will explode", is also a crock of shit - because if you ignored the regular users who were uncivil, they'd soon get bored.
Both sides are just trolling.
Arbcom are fools to accept this, because it will simply result in three months of drama, a limp-wristed decision, and a few weeks of grumbling - and then it will die off for a few weeks.
Change MF to Giano/Geogre/Bishonen, and change the blocker to David Gerard/Tony Sidaway, or whoever it was, and you'll realise how boring this is.
Chistmas repeats once again.
So Malleus, you are just a boring old troll. Yes, the trolling is successful, but it has all been done before (and, sorry to say it, Giano had more style).
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 11:32pm)
So Malleus, you are just a boring old troll. Yes, the trolling is successful, but it has all been done before (and, sorry to say it, Giano had more style).
And you're an interesting young troll? What a curiously blind distinction.
QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 11:20pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 4:03pm)
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 4:18pm)
QUOTE(that one guy @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 10:28am)
The problem is when he calls a non-admin a "fucking cunt" well he sort of has a nice block coming to him.
Some people just can't see the truth unless you shove it their faces spiced with a bit of pepper. I fully expect the outcome of ArbCom's deliberations to be rather similar to what happened to Ottava, but that's their loss, not mine.
I doubt it...they'll most likely just tell you to stop commenting on RFAs (which would still be their loss, not yours). Try as you might, you'll never come across as being as much of a bonkers asshole as Ottava. It's not something you can fake.
They may say whatever they like, obviously, just as I may or may not agree to their terms.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 11:45pm)
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 11:32pm)
So Malleus, you are just a boring old troll. Yes, the trolling is successful, but it has all been done before (and, sorry to say it, Giano had more style).
And you're an interesting young troll? What a curiously blind distinction.
Blind to what? I knew posting here and calling you out as a troll, would probably get your goat because you are still peddling the self-righteous twaddle that you are defending some superior moral high-ground when you call people "cunts".
It is, however, as silly as those who don't understand that they are giving you precisely what you are after when they react to you.
Does that make me a drama-seeking troll? Yes, I suppose it might. So then, there is no distinction. It is just that I'm not a pompous ass who is still playing the game and pretending it is for real.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 6:32pm)
Hahahahah
People are still taking this shit seriously??????
This has nothing to do with civility, and nothing to do with one side being mature. This is all about drama - lots and lots of drama.
Malleus is deliberately rude because it causes drama. The people who go after him go after him because it cases drama. They all enjoy it.
The feigned "admins are after the good writers - they'll run them all off", is just a crock of shit - because anyone with the intelligence to write good articles is quite intelligent enough to work out how to interact with sufficient civility to avoid drama - it is just that writing good articles isn't enough - they want drama, victim status and hero worship too.
The feigned "if we don't stamp on incivility the wiki will explode", is also a crock of shit - because if you ignored the regular users who were uncivil, they'd soon get bored.
Both sides are just trolling.
Arbcom are fools to accept this, because it will simply result in three months of drama, a limp-wristed decision, and a few weeks of grumbling - and then it will die off for a few weeks.
Change MF to Giano/Geogre/Bishonen, and change the blocker to David Gerard/Tony Sidaway, or whoever it was, and you'll realise how boring this is.
Chistmas repeats once again.
So Malleus, you are just a boring old troll. Yes, the trolling is successful, but it has all been done before (and, sorry to say it, Giano had more style).
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 6:53pm)
Blind to what? I knew posting here and calling you out as a troll, would probably get your goat because you are still peddling the self-righteous twaddle that you are defending some superior moral high-ground when you call people "cunts".
It is, however, as silly as those who don't understand that they are giving you precisely what you are after when they react to you.
Does that make me a drama-seeking troll? Yes, I suppose it might. So then, there is no distinction. It is just that I'm not a pompous ass who is still playing the game and pretending it is for real.
Lets just get things straight. There are two types of people/two types of action.
1. Editing content/building content
2. Trolling/attention mongering/myspacing, etc.
Number 1 in all of its forms is what Wikipedia is supposed to be about. Number 2 in all of its forms (yes, it is all the same nonsense) is what Wikipedia is actually about.
Any kind of commentary about Wikipedia is trolling of some kind because you are expecting a response. A lot of people provoke others in order to get more of a response. Otherwise, you can see from obscure talk pages that when there is no drama that questions or comments take months and sometimes years before they are answered (if ever).
The rules and policies are established to add a form to the trolling. It is like imposing Robert's Rules in politics - people are still bitching and mongering for attention regardless of the structure they pretend to work within. Everyone is peacocking and trying to get their personal view anywhere they can. That is humanity. That wont change.
Doc, you aren't special. Malleus, you aren't special.
But yeah, I got a mention in that ArbCom request on the second anniversary of my 1 year ban without even having to provoke it. So, I am the ultimate ghost troll. Boogie boogie boo.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 12:00am)
Lets just get things straight. There are two types of people/two types of action.
1. Editing content/building content
2. Trolling/attention mongering/myspacing, etc.
Number 1 in all of its forms is what Wikipedia is supposed to be about. Number 2 in all of its forms (yes, it is all the same nonsense) is what Wikipedia is actually about.
There are certainly two attractions in wikipedia a) creating content [widely defined] and have people react/interact to it b) interacting with people and getting a reaction. People, however, generally engage in both to some degree (it is only a question of where the balance lies).
Most trolls are not interested in content (or not able to write content good enough to have people react to it). However, it is quite possible to need MORE attention than even your excessive content attracts, and thus use trolling to get more.
The self-righteous nonsense is where you claim your provocation and the conflict if causes is somehow related to being a content creator - it is not. (Although, the line is also a good one to divide and conquer your critics - again classic trolling).
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 12:17am)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 12:00am)
Lets just get things straight. There are two types of people/two types of action.
1. Editing content/building content
2. Trolling/attention mongering/myspacing, etc.
Number 1 in all of its forms is what Wikipedia is supposed to be about. Number 2 in all of its forms (yes, it is all the same nonsense) is what Wikipedia is actually about.
There are certainly two attractions in wikipedia a) creating content [widely defined] and have people react/interact to it b) interacting with people and getting a reaction. People, however, generally engage in both to some degree (it is only a question of where the balance lies).
Most trolls are not interested in content (or not able to write content good enough to have people react to it). However, it is quite possible to need MORE attention than even your excessive content attracts, and thus use trolling to get more.
The self-righteous nonsense is where you claim your provocation and the conflict if causes is somehow related to being a content creator - it is not. (Although, the line is also a good one to divide and conquer your critics - again classic trolling).
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 7:57pm)
How can content be "excessive"?
It is obviously getting in the way of your trolling. What you need to fix that and become a standard Wikipedian is to be banned and then kept from having access to editing the content. That will leave you only with drama. Obviously, it works.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 8:03pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 7:57pm)
How can content be "excessive"?
It is obviously getting in the way of your trolling. What you need to fix that and become a standard Wikipedian is to be banned and then kept from having access to editing the content. That will leave you only with drama. Obviously, it works.
The notion that "content creators" occupy some kind of superior position is ridiculous. As far as trolling WR goes the self-righteous "content creator" are much worse of problem than the social media types.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 1:03am)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 7:57pm)
How can content be "excessive"?
It is obviously getting in the way of your trolling. What you need to fix that and become a standard Wikipedian is to be banned and then kept from having access to editing the content. That will leave you only with drama. Obviously, it works.
My ban is only a virtual heartbeat away: I'm just surprised I lasted as long as I did. There was once a time when I believed in the project's goal of free dissemination of knowledge, but I realise now that I was naive. It's not about that at all, it's about social engineering.
QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 1:14am)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 8:03pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 7:57pm)
How can content be "excessive"?
It is obviously getting in the way of your trolling. What you need to fix that and become a standard Wikipedian is to be banned and then kept from having access to editing the content. That will leave you only with drama. Obviously, it works.
The notion that "content creators" occupy some kind of superior position is ridiculous. As far as trolling WR goes the self-righteous "content creator" are much worse of problem than the social media types.
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I also was thinking why quite a few, should I say notable, content creators got into troubles: Ottava Rima (T-C-L-K-R-D)
articles created Peter Damian (T-C-L-K-R-D)
articles created MickMacNee (T-C-L-K-R-D)
articles created ChildofMidnight (T-C-L-K-R-D)
articles created and so on. It probably has nothing to do with content creation because many users who write a great content are doing fine. I have no answer to this, but I know why I got into troubles. It was mostly my own fault because I have never learned not to take a bait, and ignore the trolls. I believe Wikipedia:Don't take the bait is one of the most important essays. Trolls should be ignored. It is the only way do deal with them. I only wish ignoring trolls were as easy on wikipedia as it is on WR.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 6:32pm)
Malleus is deliberately rude because it causes drama.
Drama? If anything, this causes comedy. No one with a working brain can possibly see this brouhaha as anything but a farce. I love how this sorry collection of grotesques and misfits are spending so much time and energy on something so woefully benign. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 8:33pm)
It was mostly my own fault because I have never learned not to take a bait...
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 8:33pm)
Trolls should be ignored. It is the only way do deal with them. I only wish ignoring trolls were as easy on wikipedia as it is on WR.
It is hard to ignore them when they come to articles you worked on and start pushing original research, plagiarism, making crazy fringe claims that a person is a "pederast", etc. Look at the case with Maunus trying to defend admin who had no reason to come to the Persian Empire page but merely wanted to have it removed even though 2/3s of those discussing the matter did not want the page deleted.
There are people on Wikipedia with intentionally or unintentionally are destroying content. When you work and try to create a lot of content, it isn't fun to watch people come up wanting to knock it down as if it is just a sandcastle.
I never actively sought these people out or cussed them out. Malleus and Ceoil tend to be the few people who do. Those like Science Apologist were involved in big POV disputes. There are some other different patterns. Not all of it is the same.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 1:22am)
My ban is only a virtual heartbeat away: I'm just surprised I lasted as long as I did. There was once a time when I believed in the project's goal of free dissemination of knowledge, but I realise now that I was naive. It's not about that at all, it's about social engineering.
Rubbish - you have no intention of leaving. And if you do, it will wear off.
This is a ploy - and it is already working. The usual suspects are running about with the "O o O the bastards have killed a good content creator". The community will now war with itself and you get to enjoy the drama. Arbcom will not dare ban you now, (they never would - they don't ban content creators for mere incivility) and you'll be back soon rubbing their noses in it.
Again, this is another poor Giano copycat without the same style.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 2:35am)
Not every thread is about you, Greg. One of these days you'll get that.
Don't challenge him or he'll ensure it becomes covered by the "mainstream" media and then someone else will feel the need to comment here on whatever he wrote.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 2:35am)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 1:22am)
My ban is only a virtual heartbeat away: I'm just surprised I lasted as long as I did. There was once a time when I believed in the project's goal of free dissemination of knowledge, but I realise now that I was naive. It's not about that at all, it's about social engineering.
Rubbish - you have no intention of leaving. And if you do, it will wear off.
This is a ploy - and it is already working. The usual suspects are running about with the "O o O the bastards have killed a good content creator". The community will now war with itself and you get to enjoy the drama. Arbcom will not dare ban you now, (they never would - they don't ban content creators for mere incivility) and you'll be back soon rubbing their noses in it.
Again, this is another poor Giano copycat without the same style.
Not every thread is about you, Greg. One of these days you'll get that.
You presume too much, as many of you ignorant dickheads do. It's about time that ignorance became a notifiable disease in the land of the fat and ignorant.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:25am)
You presume too much, as many of you ignorant dickheads do. It's about time that ignorance became a notifiable disease in the land of the fat and ignorant.
There is a point where you carefully put so much vitriolic invective into a sentence that you forget to actually communicate any facts or comprehensible sentiment. In such cases, you may find "fuck you" is shorter to type!
If ignorance was a notifiable disease in the land of the fat and the ignorant ... then... oh, bugger it, the sentence is simply incoherent nonsense. I do not like green eggs and ham either.
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QUOTE(Eppur si muove @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 9:43pm)
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 2:35am)
Not every thread is about you, Greg. One of these days you'll get that.
Don't challenge him or he'll ensure it becomes covered by the "mainstream" media and then someone else will feel the need to comment here on whatever he wrote.
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Honestly the ArbCom case of Malleus isn't very difficult to figure out from any user who been editing in the project for years like me or Doc. It's clear that Malleus edits in good faith and with the right intentions. I don't see the point of banning an editor whose usually dead on right in his contributions, even if it can be considered incivil and offensive to some users including a few aimed at myself before.
I have to say this though; civility is one of the pillars of Wikipedia, and Malleus case shouldn't set an example for other editors to follow with their own incivil comments. It's up to an editor/admin whoever to figure out if a comment is incivil and was in bad faith before doing an action, and more than likely it will end up with a negative consequence.
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I think it is time that people drop civility all together. It should never have been a pillar. It was used where I lived since the 1990s to attack people who didn't like political correctness. It has nothing to do with the original meaning of civility, which was all about protocol and etiquette (eat the right foods, wear the right clothes, drinking tea at the right time). It is clear that "civility" is just a weapon and has nothing to do with working to build an encyclopedia. Nice people can fail at contributing and mean people can succeed. If you want to build an encyclopedia, get rid of those who can't contribute.
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 10:56pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:25am)
You presume too much, as many of you ignorant dickheads do. It's about time that ignorance became a notifiable disease in the land of the fat and ignorant.
There is a point where you carefully put so much vitriolic invective into a sentence that you forget to actually communicate any facts or comprehensible sentiment. In such cases, you may find "fuck you" is shorter to type!
If ignorance was a notifiable disease in the land of the fat and the ignorant ... then... oh, bugger it, the sentence is simply incoherent nonsense. I do not like green eggs and ham either.
I can say that there are enough witnesses out there that can confirm that I may be an ignorant dickhead but I am definitely not fat.
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Malleus, your block is going to end on 12/29. Why did you call your post "My final request" ?
About content of your post. It is great, it is Christmas time, time of forgiveness, is it not?
Only there is a problem with that. Gwen has changed towards you because she knows, when it is time to support consensus, but she did not change towards others. She has been a bully administrator since she started and up to now. She still posts bad blocks.Only most editors are not as known as you are, and their blocks are left unnoticed.
In a meantime I almost felt sorry for Gwen, when I read this
QUOTE
I have never been so harassed, wantonly smeared, blatantly lied about or otherwise trashed as I've been on this website. Not even nearly. I've put up with it because I knew the slurs were never about me as such, but about other stuff only a dozen or so editors (out of thousands) were flogging and thrashing away at towards their own utterly selfish, narrow, thwarted goals and outlooks as to editorial and policy outcomes (and I dare say much worse sometimes).
I only wish she provided some differences... BTW did she mean you, Malleus, as one of these "a dozen or so editors (out of thousands)" who were " flogging and thrashing away at towards their own utterly selfish, narrow, thwarted goals and outlooks as to editorial and policy outcomes", or smearing her? If not, why in a world she posted that rant in your arbitration case?
In the same post she calls wikipedia "this encyclopedic hobby", and complains she has "not a lot" free time. Well, she did write 25 articles "in almost eight years of editing here" (most just being stubs), and the most important one being Lesbian sexual practices, but it looks like she has always had the time to bully. Oh sorry, I forgot she also wrote two articles about herself. Sadly they got deleted. She said she would have unblocked you. How brave of her to say so about the block that had a strong consensus for being lifted:/ Please make no mistake, she would have blocked indefinitely 99.99999% of all editors in a similar situation because her "encyclopedic hobby" is a pleasure of bullying. So it is not actually about your own "grudge against [[User:Gwen Gale]] ",Malleus. You could and should forgive, but bully administrators hurt contributors and they should be constantly reminded to be fair with every good faith editor, and not only with valued and notable editors as you are, Malleus.
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QUOTE(Jaranda @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:38am)
Honestly the ArbCom case of Malleus isn't very difficult to figure out from any user who been editing in the project for years like me or Doc. It's clear that Malleus edits in good faith and with the right intentions. I don't see the point of banning an editor whose usually dead on right in his contributions, even if it can be considered incivil and offensive to some users including a few aimed at myself before.
Rubbish. Malleus is not editing in good faith. If he really just wanted to be left alone to write content - he'd be making every effort to tone down the flowery invective, simply because in creates needless drama which is a distraction. He is bright enough to work out how to do that. He's not stupid enough to call someone a "cunt" and not realise exactly what reaction and drama he'd get. This is quite deliberate trolling - and not inconsistent with him enjoying doing content too.
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:31am)
No, it will end when and if I decide it ends, which won't be 12/29.
Attitude gives the game away. This is a controlled troll and he correctly knows he's got he upper hand.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 2:56pm)
If ignorance was a notifiable disease in the land of the fat and the ignorant ... then... oh, bugger it, the sentence is simply incoherent nonsense. I do not like green eggs and ham either.
tsk tsk....If ingorance were a notifiable disease etc.
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 10:52pm)
Only there is a problem with that. Gwen has changed towards you because she knows, when it is time to support consensus, but she did not change towards others. She has been a bully administrator since she started and up to now.
Oh, thank God. I had missed Gwen Gale's latest comment, I'm not sure what I would do without mbz1's constant running commentary about her. It might save some time if you'd just grab @gwenisabullyadmin on Twitter.
As for MF, yes, it's all about the drama. I agree with Doc here. If MF wants to contribute content, go ahead, but railing against other editors isn't writing. It's just poking the hive to get them to say your name.
Not just talking about MF here, but if you think you're a "great content contributor" (or some other version of wiki-praise), then so what? Your well-written, properly researched information that you've donated can be easily overwritten or deleted by some twelve-year-old who prefers his words to yours. That's the way it works.
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Giano does have more style than Malleus. Malleus has to resort to swears, comes off as a swearing asshole, Giano just came off as a simple ass.
To me, assholes are worse than asses (which is still below "fucking cunt", come on man if you're going to play your trump card at least do it when you know you have no choice).
You could and should forgive, but bully administrators hurt contributors and they should be constantly reminded to be fair with every good faith editor, and not only with valued and notable editors as you are, Malleus.
Greg, you should contact the Pulitzer Prize organizers - I think that Examiner.com qualifies under their new rules relating to online media. (This is not a joke, by the way.)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Thu 22nd December 2011, 10:25pm)
It's about time that ignorance became a notifiable disease in the land of the fat and ignorant.
If that was the case, Mitt Romney would be walking around with a thermometer in his mouth. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/bored.gif)
Oh no, I'm not censoring you. I agree with the original statement, but I'm just saying he's not the only one that's like that. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/fear.gif)
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Doc, serious question - what is your fixation on Malleus? I don't really get why you are going after him. There are actual people in power that need to be removed and the best way to do that is with such trench warfare. Why target Malleus? He has no power, isn't respected by the WMF, etc. It seems a little backwards and it kinda makes you look like a bully.
Do I feel that way about you? Nah. You know I like you regardless of what you think about me. But I also feel the same way about Malleus. I just find it odd.
I have to say, at least Cla is constantly going after the right people to go after if you think going after people is good.
Casliber
QUOTE
remember the subjunctive
I think the subjunctive has gone the way of Malleus. Perhaps it needs to be constantly banned, too. However, I doubt such a thing would cause any drama.
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:13am)
Greg, you should contact the Pulitzer Prize organizers - I think that Examiner.com qualifies under their new rules relating to online media. (This is not a joke, by the way.)
Phooey! There's a $50 entry fee. Maybe I can get my overlords at Examiner to foot the bill.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:02pm)
Doc, serious question - what is your fixation on Malleus? I don't really get why you are going after him. There are actual people in power that need to be removed and the best way to do that is with such trench warfare. Why target Malleus? He has no power, isn't respected by the WMF, etc. It seems a little backwards and it kinda makes you look like a bully.
Do I feel that way about you? Nah. You know I like you regardless of what you think about me. But I also feel the same way about Malleus. I just find it odd.
I have to say, at least Cla is constantly going after the right people to go after if you think going after people is good.
I didn't know who Malleus was until recently, and I am not "going after" him a all.
However, the "poor Malleus is being bullied" is just more of the victim-complex bullshit. Malleus is the one on the attention-seeking power trip - he's the one calling the shots and making the choices here.
On a more serious note. I believe you should have used your "final request" to defend Hawkeye7. Why? Because he was falsely accused that he was "wheel-warring" to block you after there was a consensus to unblock you. You know it is not the case. He blocked you not for what Thumperward blocked you, but for an absolutely different reason. Leaving alone the fairness of the block, he was not "wheel-warring" as gwen gale and Black Kite claim.
I've been very disappointed in Gwen Gale for years now. I defended her against ArbCom trolling. It seems her reaction to serious abuse at the hands of Wikipedia's elite has been to embrace its values and to ape its practices, in the hope of becoming one of them.
That's right, and not only concerning gwen gale. Many seemingly normal users who got power became "one of them", and the more power they get the more "one of them" they become. If you,Malleus, will succeed in your challenge to become a member of govcom the next year, you'd probably become "one of them" too because, if you do not, you'd be crashed by the system.
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 10:45am)
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:13am)
Greg, you should contact the Pulitzer Prize organizers - I think that Examiner.com qualifies under their new rules relating to online media. (This is not a joke, by the way.)
Phooey! There's a $50 entry fee. Maybe I can get my overlords at Examiner to foot the bill.
Phooey times twoey! Fifty bucks ain't so bad, Greg. And you would be a shoo-in for the Commentary category. You should double check with the Pulitzer folks to confirm that their prize is yours for the taking.
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 10:53am)
I didn't know who Malleus was until recently, and I am not "going after" him a all.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 10:53am)
I didn't know who Malleus was until recently, and I am not "going after" him a all.
However, the "poor Malleus is being bullied" is just more of the victim-complex bullshit. Malleus is the one on the attention-seeking power trip - he's the one calling the shots and making the choices here.
A friend of mine pointed out a few links dealing with Malleus's talk page - some were from a few months back. You tended to wade into a few of the messes dealing with him.
And who cares if Malleus is being bullied or not. I'm more focused on your attention - by having the people who want things fixed at Wikipedia fighting amongst themselves, don't the truly problematic people win?
But yes, the other day you were trying to defend Maunus, which was a little absurd. You tried calling him an academic and justified his really obnoxious behavior. I don't remember you ever defending me, when my degrees are far, far better (hell, my Masters in Classics came from a school that was recently rated "most rigorous" where Harvard only scored 17). You have a strange approach sometimes. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:02pm)
Doc, serious question - what is your fixation on Malleus? I don't really get why you are going after him. There are actual people in power that need to be removed and the best way to do that is with such trench warfare. Why target Malleus? He has no power, isn't respected by the WMF, etc. It seems a little backwards and it kinda makes you look like a bully.
Do I feel that way about you? Nah. You know I like you regardless of what you think about me. But I also feel the same way about Malleus. I just find it odd.
Who cares what Doc claims to think, certainly not me. But in the Christmas spirit let me say this; you and I haven't always seen eye to eye Ottava, and I've no reason to believe that we always will in the future, but I think the way you were treated by ArbCom was disgraceful. Wikipedia is certainly not a better place as a result of your extended exile. Quite the opposite really.
On a more serious note. I believe you should have used your "final request" to defend Hawkeye7. Why? Because he was falsely accused that he was "wheel-warring" to block you after there was a consensus to unblock you. You know it is not the case. He blocked you not for what Thumperward blocked you, but for an absolutely different reason. Leaving alone the fairness of the block, he was not "wheel-warring" as gwen gale and Black Kite claim.
I've been very disappointed in Gwen Gale for years now. I defended her against ArbCom trolling. It seems her reaction to serious abuse at the hands of Wikipedia's elite has been to embrace its values and to ape its practices, in the hope of becoming one of them.
That's right, and not only concerning gwen gale. Many seemingly normal users who got power became "one of them", and the more power they get the more "one of them" they become. If you,Malleus, will succeed in your challenge to become a member of govcom the next year, you'd probably become "one of them" too because, if you do not, you'd be crashed by the system.
You need to get your logic chip examined, it's clearly faulty.
StrawCat's additions were absolute rubbish, as are the adding of templates that question cited material. I am bothered by the guy taking a nice metaphor that Johnson didn't feel needed to be explained and then using really crappy sources to ruin it. Looking at some of the changes Sandy didn't revert, it changes quite a bit of the tone, makes the paragraphing choppy, etc. Like the removal of the "although" regarding Tory disconnects the reader from easily seeing that Tories didn't necessary think the way Johnson did on those issues.
He claims in his summary "The 'although' presupposes that Tories and Jacobites were antagonistic; this was not necessarily the case", which makes it obvious that he never read any of the source material.
Then you have things like adding a "dubious" template. The source clearly says "It must be said, to begin with, that Johnson is not, and does not wish to be, a critical ''theorist''." It is hard to be more blunt than that, but this guy, without any sources nor any background, adds a dubious template.
This is why you need to be able to edit, because I can't protect the page from such outright disruption and trolling. Dozens of my pages get that treatment, especially when people randomly change language to say the opposite of the source material or add templates claiming that the source can't possibly say what it most blatantly says. And yet, if you get banned, no one will be there to defend -that- page.
So stop your fucking whining, get unblocked during the ArbCom case, and fix that damn page instead of just leaving without any one able to do it. Because Sandy doesn't bother to listen to me and I don't sock, so you are the only one who will even bother. There are tens of thousands of page hits, but these pages take people with the actual sources and knowledge to know what is right or wrong.
ArbCom wont bother to let me, an expert, fix the pages. They claim that I only want my preferred version and they use my desire to have these pages to actually reflect the source material, not have original research, and not have plagiarism as proof I need to be banned. I have plenty of emails saying such things, and even Jclemens recently said it to me and it is sad that people bothered to let him back in. Risker and Roger Davies, two of Sandy's pets, are some of the worst when it comes to content as they actively oppose fixing pages. So if you really want to say screw you to ArbCom, you get your unblock for right now and fix these pages while you still can.
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Welcome to Nerd Talk. It has been four minutes since you last publicly masturbated.
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I think there is a more fundemental difference between MF and the people he is up against; its more than content vs templaters and gamers, its national and generational, and about social class. MF comes from a generation and enviroment and class, like me, where you have to think on you feet or you get swallowed. Were as a lot of the admins are spoit brats.
Cunt is a very common word here, anybody ever read Irvin Welsh which is realsim x 100? I hear it in my workplace all the time, but whats respected in my work place is cuting through the bluff and getting to the nub of the thing, regardelss of whoes feelings are hurt, and that is why I am paid, and that's what is important or we might as all go home and drink petrol. Making people fell fuzzy and warm, with nice words? Fuck that.
Ottava is right, there ARE gamers out there, templaters and taggers and worse that have nothing better to do than to troll content. Note Tumperwarder's contributions after he indefed MF was to go add a bunch of "lead too short tags". Wankery of the first order, as if they will motivate anybody; they are just self serving self importing spam, hes just providing a lightweight reason to breath. But thats not even the quarter of it. What often happens is that an incumbant says no, actually, and they swarm and choke, we is admins. You then find your self up against a bunch of similarlly lightweight but supporting tools on AN/I. Fustrated, swearing, and blocked/ckoked again, and even more isolated from the thing youve given thousands of hours researching/reading/writing for.
A lot of admins are class acts imo, but the spam templaters and veiled elected gamers seem to be in the majority and winning and their main weapon is they dont give a fuck, have no investment and so can stay calm in argument with thoes that do actually care, those that can easily be baited. Sorry, to be so charmless and blunt, butb its FUN for them, and they have nothing to do anyway. Thats what this is about. I know MF is invested to the extent that it gets the better of him; Doc's suggestion that its trolling is a serious misunderstanding.
Also Doc, would you like to hyave seen Gerard/Sidway win the Giano wars? Last I heard of Gerard outside of his protected listserv was boasting about some pityful c class article, from 6 months ago.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:20pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:42pm)
So if you really want to say screw you to ArbCom, you get your unblock for right now and fix these pages while you still can.
I can't fix anything Ottava, and I'm certainly not going to be asked to be unblocked. Never have, never will.
Stop being such a damn baby. It isn't about you. It is about the damn articles. Grow a pair, get the unblock, and fix the fucking pages.
Aren't you British? Whatever happened to keeping your chin up and taking it like a man. Instead, you are cowering in the shadows like a damn frog.
I can't fix that page. You bloody well can. I wish I was able to cuss like you, attack people like you, etc. My mistake was complaining about an admin unilaterally declaring that I was on probation and another pair of people passing around all of my personal information while tag teaming me for a year. You don't have those problems.
So stop the bitching and get the damn unblock and fix that damn article already before you really get me pissed off. You agreed to work on the Samuel Johnson page to begin with and ensure that such an important topic was well written. I'll be damned if I let you get away with not holding up to your promise.
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QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:05pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:52pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:20pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:42pm)
So if you really want to say screw you to ArbCom, you get your unblock for right now and fix these pages while you still can.
I can't fix anything Ottava, and I'm certainly not going to be asked to be unblocked. Never have, never will.
Stop being such a damn baby. It isn't about you. It is about the damn articles. Grow a pair, get the unblock, and fix the fucking pages.
That certainly is the pot calling the kettle black.
Um, I don't think you know what that phrase means. I'm banned. Malleus isn't. He had the chance to be unblocked now. Somey, Mr. Kohs, and many others can testify that I have appealed my ban many times with no success. After all, they are BCC'd to all of my communications with ArbCom just so that there is a record (because they refuse to make anything public).
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:54pm)
QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:05pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:52pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:20pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:42pm)
So if you really want to say screw you to ArbCom, you get your unblock for right now and fix these pages while you still can.
I can't fix anything Ottava, and I'm certainly not going to be asked to be unblocked. Never have, never will.
Stop being such a damn baby. It isn't about you. It is about the damn articles. Grow a pair, get the unblock, and fix the fucking pages.
That certainly is the pot calling the kettle black.
Um, I don't think you know what that phrase means. I'm banned. Malleus isn't. He had the chance to be unblocked now. Somey, Mr. Kohs, and many others can testify that I have appealed my ban many times with no success. After all, they are BCC'd to all of my communications with ArbCom just so that there is a record (because they refuse to make anything public).
Anyone can be unblocked/unbanned. You just have to promise not to be antagonistic and argumentative and agree to severe restrictions to keep you in line until you prove you have changed your ways. You also have to stay away from anyone that you previously pissed off and never talk badly about them in public even if they libel and unnecessarily castigate you. Even Grawp could be unbanned if he showed repentance and adhered to the Wiki-Way. Greg was unblocked for a while before they clamped down on him again. You could do the same.
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QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 5:35pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:54pm)
QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:05pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:52pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:20pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:42pm)
So if you really want to say screw you to ArbCom, you get your unblock for right now and fix these pages while you still can.
I can't fix anything Ottava, and I'm certainly not going to be asked to be unblocked. Never have, never will.
Stop being such a damn baby. It isn't about you. It is about the damn articles. Grow a pair, get the unblock, and fix the fucking pages.
That certainly is the pot calling the kettle black.
Um, I don't think you know what that phrase means. I'm banned. Malleus isn't. He had the chance to be unblocked now. Somey, Mr. Kohs, and many others can testify that I have appealed my ban many times with no success. After all, they are BCC'd to all of my communications with ArbCom just so that there is a record (because they refuse to make anything public).
Anyone can be unblocked/unbanned. You just have to promise not to be antagonistic and argumentative and agree to severe restrictions to keep you in line until you prove you have changed your ways. You also have to stay away from anyone that you previously pissed off and never talk badly about them in public even if they libel and unnecessarily castigate you. Even Grawp could be unbanned if he showed repentance and adhered to the Wiki-Way. Greg was unblocked for a while before they clamped down on him again. You could do the same.
On a more serious note. I believe you should have used your "final request" to defend Hawkeye7. Why? Because he was falsely accused that he was "wheel-warring" to block you after there was a consensus to unblock you. You know it is not the case. He blocked you not for what Thumperward blocked you, but for an absolutely different reason. Leaving alone the fairness of the block, he was not "wheel-warring" as gwen gale and Black Kite claim.
I've been very disappointed in Gwen Gale for years now. I defended her against ArbCom trolling. It seems her reaction to serious abuse at the hands of Wikipedia's elite has been to embrace its values and to ape its practices, in the hope of becoming one of them.
That's right, and not only concerning gwen gale. Many seemingly normal users who got power became "one of them", and the more power they get the more "one of them" they become. If you,Malleus, will succeed in your challenge to become a member of govcom the next year, you'd probably become "one of them" too because, if you do not, you'd be crashed by the system.
You need to get your logic chip examined, it's clearly faulty.
In what way? Regarding my comment about wheel-warring or regarding my comment about gwen gale or all of the above?
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Malleus, I am banned. You are not. You choose not to return. I have very little ability to affect change on Wikipedia and fix problems. You have a lot of ability. You are refusing to do so because of whatever personal reason.
If anything, you are insulting me and everyone else by putting your own ego above the articles of Wikipedia. Wikipedia is an encyclopedia. You have a chance to make it a better encyclopedia. You have the ability to do something a lot of people here can't. Stop the games.
And true colors? What the hell does that mean? That I think you should go and fix the page? You don't ever talk to me anymore. You don't ever keep watch over pages we worked on. You don't do anything to fix the thousands of errors and problems I have pointed out. You don't even try to get me unbanned so I can fix it all myself. I tell you to go and fix it and you claim that I am suddenly showing my true colors? Really? That is rather screwed up.
Unlike you, I will always continue to say that you shouldn't be banned and try to work with people in my limited capacity to ensure that such is true. You, instead, apparently only do things out of your own self interest. Just be glad that not everyone in this world is like you. Hell, I lost a lot of support when I stuck up for Mattisse, Peter Damian, etc. and your group attacked me for doing the right thing.
Why don't you get some integrity and do what is right instead of what satisfies your own pride? Get the damn unblock, fix the damn page, and show that you can be better than the rest of them.
QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 5:35pm)
Anyone can be unblocked/unbanned. You just have to promise not to be antagonistic and argumentative and agree to severe restrictions to keep you in line until you prove you have changed your ways. You also have to stay away from anyone that you previously pissed off and never talk badly about them in public even if they libel and unnecessarily castigate you. Even Grawp could be unbanned if he showed repentance and adhered to the Wiki-Way. Greg was unblocked for a while before they clamped down on him again. You could do the same.
You assume that I didn't do 100% what they said to do and even more so without having them change the goal posts.
You also assume that Grawp or Greg, who were not content contributors and banned for other reasons were some how comparable. And I don't remember ArbCom unblocking either party. The community already said they wanted me unblocked twice and that is why ArbCom refuses to allow it to go to a community vote.
Hell, there were 3 proposals to unban me recently with a 50/50 split and Iridescent would have been the deciding vote. Iridescent knew about it. Had 3 months to respond to it. Was there quite a few times during that time. Even though Iridescent claimed he would unblock me and stated that to the committee before, he didn't appear and that gave a handful of Arbs the ability to say that I will never be unbanned. There is no system because it is all just nonsense.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:53pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:02pm)
Doc, serious question - what is your fixation on Malleus? I don't really get why you are going after him. There are actual people in power that need to be removed and the best way to do that is with such trench warfare. Why target Malleus? He has no power, isn't respected by the WMF, etc. It seems a little backwards and it kinda makes you look like a bully.
Do I feel that way about you? Nah. You know I like you regardless of what you think about me. But I also feel the same way about Malleus. I just find it odd.
I have to say, at least Cla is constantly going after the right people to go after if you think going after people is good.
I didn't know who Malleus was until recently, and I am not "going after" him a all.
However, the "poor Malleus is being bullied" is just more of the victim-complex bullshit. Malleus is the one on the attention-seeking power trip - he's the one calling the shots and making the choices here.
"What we've got here is... failure to communicate. Some men you just can't reach. So you get what we had here last week, which is the way he wants it... well, he gets it. I don't like it any more than you men. "
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 5:37pm)
QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 5:35pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:54pm)
QUOTE(The Joy @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 4:05pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:52pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 3:20pm)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 7:42pm)
So if you really want to say screw you to ArbCom, you get your unblock for right now and fix these pages while you still can.
I can't fix anything Ottava, and I'm certainly not going to be asked to be unblocked. Never have, never will.
Stop being such a damn baby. It isn't about you. It is about the damn articles. Grow a pair, get the unblock, and fix the fucking pages.
That certainly is the pot calling the kettle black.
Um, I don't think you know what that phrase means. I'm banned. Malleus isn't. He had the chance to be unblocked now. Somey, Mr. Kohs, and many others can testify that I have appealed my ban many times with no success. After all, they are BCC'd to all of my communications with ArbCom just so that there is a record (because they refuse to make anything public).
Anyone can be unblocked/unbanned. You just have to promise not to be antagonistic and argumentative and agree to severe restrictions to keep you in line until you prove you have changed your ways. You also have to stay away from anyone that you previously pissed off and never talk badly about them in public even if they libel and unnecessarily castigate you. Even Grawp could be unbanned if he showed repentance and adhered to the Wiki-Way. Greg was unblocked for a while before they clamped down on him again. You could do the same.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:02pm)
And true colors? What the hell does that mean? That I think you should go and fix the page? You don't ever talk to me anymore. You don't ever keep watch over pages we worked on. You don't do anything to fix the thousands of errors and problems I have pointed out. You don't even try to get me unbanned so I can fix it all myself. I tell you to go and fix it and you claim that I am suddenly showing my true colors? Really? That is rather screwed up.
Either you misunderstand or I wasn't clear in what I said. I was referring to those who have commented in the request for arbitration, not you.
And if I could unban you I would, but obviously I can't even keep myself unbanned.
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:33pm)
You do Eric, you do. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
I did. I believed in the idea and wasted a lot of time there arguing with pricks like you who haven't got the faintest idea what they're talking about.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 12:17am)
QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 12:00am)
Lets just get things straight. There are two types of people/two types of action.
1. Editing content/building content
2. Trolling/attention mongering/myspacing, etc.
Number 1 in all of its forms is what Wikipedia is supposed to be about. Number 2 in all of its forms (yes, it is all the same nonsense) is what Wikipedia is actually about.
There are certainly two attractions in wikipedia a) creating content [widely defined] and have people react/interact to it b) interacting with people and getting a reaction. People, however, generally engage in both to some degree (it is only a question of where the balance lies).
Most trolls are not interested in content (or not able to write content good enough to have people react to it). However, it is quite possible to need MORE attention than even your excessive content attracts, and thus use trolling to get more.
The self-righteous nonsense is where you claim your provocation and the conflict if causes is somehow related to being a content creator - it is not. (Although, the line is also a good one to divide and conquer your critics - again classic trolling).
Doc glasgow revealed himself here as a player, and so very much interested in being astute than being right. Ouch. He had the basis for a theory, long ago, but lost it when there was no sunstantial follow through. Giano and M have the same point, who ever is the most classy is for navel gazers, that it still needs to be argued in 2012 as 2008 and we are up against the same self appointed bullshitt/through/cutters as Doc sees himself just goes to show nothing changes, and there is no more a voice for the prople in the trenches now as there was then. Just a bunch of cunts trying to be the most clever. As content people get more margialised and faced in to bitter disputes with children and it all goes down the tubes.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:37pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:33pm)
You do Eric, you do. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
I did. I believed in the idea and wasted a lot of time there arguing with pricks like you who haven't got the faintest idea what they're talking about.
Ah, if only you could've ferreted out all those pricks and disposed of them. Mind you that would still leave the cunts and Jimmy the cuntmeister general.
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:49pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:37pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:33pm)
You do Eric, you do. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
I did. I believed in the idea and wasted a lot of time there arguing with pricks like you who haven't got the faintest idea what they're talking about.
Ah, if only you could've ferreted out all those pricks and disposed of them. Mind you that would still leave the cunts and Jimmy the cuntmeister general.
You're clearly trying to suggest that you know who I am in real life, so why not come round to my house in the new year for a knuckle sandwich?
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:55pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:49pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:37pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:33pm)
You do Eric, you do. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
I did. I believed in the idea and wasted a lot of time there arguing with pricks like you who haven't got the faintest idea what they're talking about.
Ah, if only you could've ferreted out all those pricks and disposed of them. Mind you that would still leave the cunts and Jimmy the cuntmeister general.
You're clearly trying to suggest that you know who I am in real life, so why not come round to my house in the new year for a knuckle sandwich?
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Sat 24th December 2011, 12:28am)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:55pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:49pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:37pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:33pm)
You do Eric, you do. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
I did. I believed in the idea and wasted a lot of time there arguing with pricks like you who haven't got the faintest idea what they're talking about.
Ah, if only you could've ferreted out all those pricks and disposed of them. Mind you that would still leave the cunts and Jimmy the cuntmeister general.
You're clearly trying to suggest that you know who I am in real life, so why not come round to my house in the new year for a knuckle sandwich?
I'd prefer turkey with a dash of mayonnaise.
Sorry, there's only knuckles with a taste of blood on offer.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 8:33pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Sat 24th December 2011, 12:28am)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:55pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:49pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:37pm)
QUOTE(RMHED @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 11:33pm)
You do Eric, you do. Please don't insult us by pretending otherwise.
I did. I believed in the idea and wasted a lot of time there arguing with pricks like you who haven't got the faintest idea what they're talking about.
Ah, if only you could've ferreted out all those pricks and disposed of them. Mind you that would still leave the cunts and Jimmy the cuntmeister general.
You're clearly trying to suggest that you know who I am in real life, so why not come round to my house in the new year for a knuckle sandwich?
I'd prefer turkey with a dash of mayonnaise.
Sorry, there's only knuckles with a taste of blood on offer.
The admins wouldn't take threats of violence from anyone else. But you're, Malleus, Awesome Wikipedian, and they're a bunch of pussies.
I wish to make only one statement: the notion that I'll take this block "on the chin", and continue editing here in five days time is so far from reality it makes my eyes water. Grow up people. Address the real problem here, which is Jimbo and his acolytes. Get rid of his toxic personality and maybe one day you might have a project that adults feel comfortable contributing to. [[User:Malleus Fatuorum|Malleus]] [[User_talk:Malleus_Fatuorum|Fatuorum]] 01:51, 24 December 2011 (UTC)
I, however, don't really care about speech. I have no problem selling out. If Jimbo or anyone else with the power to get me back will give me clear terms that they will uphold, I will probably do and say whatever they want. Many of my unblocks in the past were negotiated in email with that in mind. I even admitted such in the ArbCom case against me. Is it wrong for people in power to do such? Probably. Does it mean that you have no choice in the matter? Definitely. Pay to play.
Ottava, if you believe you are right, even if the whole world is against you, do not betray yourself.
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QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 10:15pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Fri 23rd December 2011, 9:59pm)
Ottava, if you believe you are right, even if the whole world is against you, do not betray yourself.
The self does not matter. Truth is what matters.
Malleus lacks faith. I don't.
Do all Wikipedian Superhero Action Figures come packaged with sticks up their asses?
I doubt it, but I'd rather that people thought about why administrators routinely get away with stuff a non-Jimbo would be blocked for. Jimbo has made many personal attacks, and it's time either he was blocked or the whole mess was sorted out ... on balance I'd prefer that Dumbo Wales simply diseappeared.
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Not unless it resulted in a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:51pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:14pm)
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Not unless it resulted in a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run.
May I please ask you what is your vision on how Wikipedia should be run, and what should be done in particular that you'd say: "Yes, now a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run took place." Thanks.
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:15pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:51pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:14pm)
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Not unless it resulted in a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run.
May I please ask you what is your vision on how Wikipedia should be run, and what should be done in particular that you'd say: "Yes, now a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run took place." Thanks.
It's very simple. Once I see Dumbo Wales blocked for his habitual incivilty I may begin to believe that things have changed.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:30pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:15pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:51pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:14pm)
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Not unless it resulted in a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run.
May I please ask you what is your vision on how Wikipedia should be run, and what should be done in particular that you'd say: "Yes, now a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run took place." Thanks.
It's very simple. Once I see Dumbo Wales blocked for his habitual incivilty I may begin to believe that things have changed.
Another question if I may please. I believe we all agree that not only Jimbo, but most admins too, are treated differently in a matter of civility, and it is wrong, but do you believe that editors who made substantial contributions to the project should be treated differently than a good faith editors, whose contributions are not very noticeable?
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:41pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:30pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:15pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:51pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:14pm)
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Not unless it resulted in a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run.
May I please ask you what is your vision on how Wikipedia should be run, and what should be done in particular that you'd say: "Yes, now a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run took place." Thanks.
It's very simple. Once I see Dumbo Wales blocked for his habitual incivilty I may begin to believe that things have changed.
Another question if I may please. I believe we all agree that not only Jimbo, but most admins too, are treated differently in a matter of civility, and it is wrong, but do you believe that editors who made substantial contributions to the project should be treated differently than a good faith editors, whose contributions are not very noticeable?
I don't give a fuck. All I know is that you're taking the piss.
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Malleus,
I think there is a lot of problems that aren't related to Jimbo, and I do not think the people who keep going after you are anything more than myspacers. The MySpace problem is associated with Jimbo but not part of him, and should be fixed.
Competence should be required over Civility.
Content contribution should be valued over Sycophantic activity.
Jimbo is meaningless when it comes to that. What matters is having the community re-evaluate some of its more bogus policies and clear out the rubbish. And as long as people like Sandy believe that serial plagiarists like RogerDavies are competent for being on ArbCom, the community will always be screwed.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:43pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:41pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:30pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 5:15pm)
QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:51pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 4:14pm)
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Not unless it resulted in a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run.
May I please ask you what is your vision on how Wikipedia should be run, and what should be done in particular that you'd say: "Yes, now a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run took place." Thanks.
It's very simple. Once I see Dumbo Wales blocked for his habitual incivilty I may begin to believe that things have changed.
Another question if I may please. I believe we all agree that not only Jimbo, but most admins too, are treated differently in a matter of civility, and it is wrong, but do you believe that editors who made substantial contributions to the project should be treated differently than a good faith editors, whose contributions are not very noticeable?
I don't give a fuck. All I know is that you're taking the piss.
I assure you I am not. I wish you well, and I am really interested in your responses, but honestly so far they were not exactly up to my expectations.
OK, the last question, please. The edit summary of this post was "farewell Wikipedia". So the post itself was ":You are so much a fucking cunt Spitfire.", and the edit summary "farewell Wikipedia". Did you believe you could get blocked for this post? If not, why did you say "farewell Wikipedia"? Thanks.
I am forced to agree. Black Kite is basically a deletionist Facebooker, who does very little to improve much of anything on WP. But he does love to fight.
Maybe he'll get bored, and come to WR looking for trouble.....
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Sorry, Malleus, but I would like to give you a piece of unwanted advise: Never put yourself in a corner as you did with this statement .
QUOTE
the block will end if and when ''I'' decide that it does, nobody else, not even the almighty ArbCom
1.Yes, you could probably end the block, if you are to apologize, which I am sure you will never do. 2.The block will end on 12/29/2011. You may make it longer by either saying something like only you could say (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) at your talk or requesting the block to be longer (indefinite)? Will you do it? Will it work? Who knows. 3. If your arbitration case is accepted, and you're banned by govcom, your only option to end the block is to appeal it with an apology, which I am sure you will never do.
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 10:37pm)
Sorry, Malleus, but I would like to give you a piece of unwanted advise: Never put yourself in a corner as you did with this statement .
QUOTE
the block will end if and when ''I'' decide that it does, nobody else, not even the almighty ArbCom
1.Yes, you could probably end the block, if you are to apologize, which I am sure you will never do. 2.The block will end on 12/29/2011. You may make it longer by either saying something like only you could say (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) at your talk or requesting the block to be longer (indefinite)? Will you do it? Will it work? Who knows. 3. If your arbitration case is accepted, and you're banned by govcom, your only option to end the block is to appeal it with an apology, which I am sure you will never do.
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QUOTE(Malleus @ Sat 24th December 2011, 10:54pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Sat 24th December 2011, 10:37pm)
Sorry, Malleus, but I would like to give you a piece of unwanted advise: Never put yourself in a corner as you did with this statement .
QUOTE
the block will end if and when ''I'' decide that it does, nobody else, not even the almighty ArbCom
1.Yes, you could probably end the block, if you are to apologize, which I am sure you will never do. 2.The block will end on 12/29/2011. You may make it longer by either saying something like only you could say (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) at your talk or requesting the block to be longer (indefinite)? Will you do it? Will it work? Who knows. 3. If your arbitration case is accepted, and you're banned by govcom, your only option to end the block is to appeal it with an apology, which I am sure you will never do.
Am I missing something?
Quite a bit.
Please clarify. I'd like to learn from you. It is so nice to be able to end the block, when one wants it to end. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
Malleus, I'd like to ask you please. Let's say your arbitration case is rejected, as I believe it would, will you go back to wikipedia, maybe not on 12/29/2011, but later on? Thanks.
Not unless it resulted in a fundamental change in the way that Wikipedia is run.
In all of its existence, has there ever been a "fundamental change in he way Wikipedia is run"?
Wikipedia is, as I've long said, structurally incapable of fundamental change. The only person who could have changed the structure was Jimbo, but he never had the will, and now he lacks both the will and the power.
However, becoming tolerant of potty-mouths isn't my idea of fundamental change anyway.
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Sun 25th December 2011, 12:51am)
In all of its existence, has there ever been a "fundamental change in he way Wikipedia is run"?
Yes. In its early history, for a brief period of time, editors who were emotionally mature had a lot of say. People like Angela and Mav. There was an informal leadership of merit.
They were drowned out by morons and jimbophants in short order. It happened on Jimbo's watch and under his direction. He started promoting yes men to the arbcom and forming little secret star chambers to to is selfish bidding, and so on... That was a clear and fundamental change, at least to anyone who was there watching.
That is great news. I've always seen BK as one of the old-school, crotchety admins (even though I believe he's young), quick with the tools and threats and slow to actually talk to other people. I doubt he's retiring, though. Actually, that seems like less of a declaration of retiring, and more of a notice of intent to stir shit up.
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QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Sun 25th December 2011, 1:03am)
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Sun 25th December 2011, 12:51am)
In all of its existence, has there ever been a "fundamental change in he way Wikipedia is run"?
Yes. In its early history, for a brief period of time, editors who were emotionally mature had a lot of say. People like Angela and Mav. There was an informal leadership of merit.
They were drowned out by morons and jimbophants in short order. It happened on Jimbo's watch and under his direction. He started promoting yes men to the arbcom and forming little secret star chambers to to is selfish bidding, and so on... That was a clear and fundamental change, at least to anyone who was there watching.
I think the reverse is true.
When I joined Wikipedia back in 2004, there was certainly a cabal. A powerful group, mainly of old-timers, that ran the show in the shadows. It was largely centred round access to Jimbo - and it looked to him for leadership.
Two things happened. 1) Wikipedia attracted a large number of "anti-authoritarian" people who were determined to reject the leadership of any cabal or godking, and gradually its power diminished 2) Jimbo proved to be inept as a leader. He either promised much and did nothing - or did things that were ill-thought through and tended to increase opposition to his power.
The problem is that without leadership change is impossible. Jimbo's leadership was always chronically poor - but it was the only form of leadership Wikipedia had.
When I saw Jimbo's latest talk of a privy council to look at structure, my heart lifter because a look at governance structure is what wikipedia does need. But then I realised, that any change was impossible, and Jimbo never had the will and competency to pull it off, and has long since lost the moral or charismatic authority.
The irony is that people see the problem as Jimbo's power, and the solution as removing it. But the problem is not that power, since you NEED that power to reform Wikipedia. It is that this power has never been sensibly used, and now doesn't really exist.
The only thing worse than Jimbo-in-charge, is no-one-in-charge, which is precisely what you've got.
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Okay, lets get a little philosophical.
Emperor, how does Encyc deal with such problems as described above (sycophants, people who don't build content, etc)? Mr. Kohs, how does Wikipedia Review?
I would ask Mr. Sanger but it seems that his project suffered from the same problems among others. Just look at how those like Tom Morris were able to infiltrate it.
And Emperor, if you read this - send me an email. I have a few questions for you.
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In other news, the case now is heading to an official proceeding with 7 accepting (PhilKnight, SirFozzie, Jclemens, Casliber, Risker (originally declined), David Fuchs, and Roger Davies) and 4 recused (Kirill, Elen, Coren, and Xeno).
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QUOTE(that one guy @ Wed 28th December 2011, 2:59pm)
In other news, the case now is heading to an official proceeding with 7 accepting (PhilKnight, SirFozzie, Jclemens, Casliber, Risker (originally declined), David Fuchs, and Roger Davies) and 4 recused (Kirill, Elen, Coren, and Xeno).
Here's the link Coren should not have voted. He has only 4 more days to serve in govcom, does he not?
On the other hand some newly elected members have not voted yet. If Courcelles and Hersfold and SilkTork and AGK are to decline, will it still be accepted?
Also interesting to see what Malleus is going to do, when in a few short hours his block will expired. He said he did not agree to that, but it does not depend on him.
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Wed 28th December 2011, 9:25am)
QUOTE(that one guy @ Wed 28th December 2011, 2:59pm)
In other news, the case now is heading to an official proceeding with 7 accepting (PhilKnight, SirFozzie, Jclemens, Casliber, Risker (originally declined), David Fuchs, and Roger Davies) and 4 recused (Kirill, Elen, Coren, and Xeno).
Here's the link Coren should not have voted. He has only 4 more days to serve in govcom, does he not?
On the other hand some newly elected members have not voted yet. If Courcelles and Hersfold and SilkTork and AGK are to decline, will it still be accepted?
Also interesting to see what Malleus is going to do, when in a few short hours his block will expired. He said he did not agree to that, but it does not depend on him.
It's an end of the year case. I think it's a bit tricky regarding entering/leaving members. From what I can see is that if it's opened before the end of the year the old members are the ones looking at it with the new ones watching how they do it, though I could be wrong.
That and he recused so the whole "shouldn't be voting" comment is a little moot to me.
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QUOTE(melloden @ Wed 28th December 2011, 4:57pm)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Wed 28th December 2011, 3:25pm)
Coren should not have voted. He has only 4 more days to serve in govcom, does he not?
How is a recusal a vote?
Maybe Coren is showing a bit of sense. (OK, very unlikely, but stranger things have happened.) He knows he's leaving very soon, so he's rightly declining to get involved.
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Malleus block has ended although he said a few times here and on wiki that it will end, when, and if he decides it should end. It will be interesting to see what he'll do now. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
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QUOTE(mbz1 @ Wed 28th December 2011, 9:34pm)
Malleus block has ended although he said a few times here and on wiki that it will end, when, and if he decides it should end. It will be interesting to see what he'll do now. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
I'll happily re-block Malleus if he makes it clear that he wants to be blocked. Seems awfully silly though.
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Thu 29th December 2011, 3:00am)
QUOTE(mbz1 @ Wed 28th December 2011, 9:34pm)
Malleus block has ended although he said a few times here and on wiki that it will end, when, and if he decides it should end. It will be interesting to see what he'll do now. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
I'll happily re-block Malleus if he makes it clear that he wants to be blocked. Seems awfully silly though.
Silly? Probably. I'd be interested to learn what would have you done, if you were him.
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It's open season for Malleus, Admins have their dicks out
