MZM back on RFA, voters already handing him his ass Options

[CharlotteWebb]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...hip/MZMcBride_4

Mr. McBride has a super-majority of 100 voters opposing him after only 24 hours. I realize this is probably non-salvageable but I hope he keeps it open and sets a new record.

MZMcBride (talk · contribs) – I've been around a while. I have a few thousand edits and a few thousand more actions on the English Wikipedia. I'm a fairly active bot operator (see list here), an admin on several other Wikimedia wikis, I keep database reports up and running for the most part, and I'm very lightly involved in MediaWiki development. Just recently, I submitted my first patch! :-)

Oh, is that really all it takes? I submitted a patch once myself but it was rejected because it contained IE-unfriendly CSS.

In all seriousness the toolserver folks were the only ones in a position to sanction him. As such he should not have resigned.

[ulsterman]

Mr. McBride has a super-majority of 100 voters opposing him after only 24 hours.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) We must be looking at different Wikipedias. I'm seeing "26/77/12" and in my book, 77 opposes is a lot less than 100. No doubt he'll run up 100 eventually, but WR:ISNOT a crystal ball.

[CharlotteWebb]

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) We must be looking at different Wikipedias. I'm seeing "26/77/12" and in my book, 77 opposes is a lot less than 100. No doubt he'll run up 100 eventually, but WR:ISNOT a crystal ball.

Those opposing him form a super-majority of the ~100 voters in question, so kindly stop being a douche, Mikey.

[Moulton]

Kindly stop being a douche, Mikey.

What's wrong with a little hygiene?

[A Horse With No Name]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...hip/MZMcBride_4

Po' Skinnybones is getting deep fried by his peers. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

But some folks like him:

Support. Agree with others who think he is a net positive, plus he seems irresistibly charming . - Josette (talk) 05:09, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

[Ottava]

He has my support.

Also, for the CU/OS elections, I recommend only MuZemike, Tiptoety, Bastique, and MBisanz.

Now, my minions, go make my five pics so.

Mwah ha ha ha ha ha.

Ah ha ha ha ha ha.

Ha ha.

Ha.



I'm afraid McBride might pass my oppose total (but I should keep that record for neutrals if some of those weasels hop into a real decision).

[Anonymous editor]

look at his answers to people who are asking about previous desysoppings:

6. Related to 4 and 5 above, but more to the point: You've broken the community's trust before, and lost your sysop bit as a result. What specific actions have you taken to regain that trust, and how are we to know you won't break it again?

A: I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you be a bit more specific?

5. To piggyback on B!sZ's question. AGF is something that is generally applied to those who don't know better. You do know better, and having seen the problems in the past, they were largely characterized by an unwillingness on your part to acknowledge that perhaps you had not chosen the best course of action. Or, to be a little more pithy: what assurance do we have that you will ask questions first and shoot later, rather than the reverse?

A: I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you be a bit more specific?

4. You haven't really said anything about your previous admin incarnations or why they came to an end, but I gather there was some ArbCom connection. Would you care to tell us what happened, give us a few relevant links, although you have given us a couple of links. Could you please explain why there won't be any problems this time?

A: Well, experience and understanding come with time.

someone should vote "Oppose I'm not sure I understand this RfA. Can you be a bit more specific?" or "Oppose Experience and understanding come with time. Give it about ten years."

[bluejayfan]

Still hasn't withdrawn RfA even though his odds are impossible and he just looks like a fool by now. This is so typical of him - stubborn, arrogant and clueless.

[bluejayfan]

A bureaucrat closed MzM's RfA early, so MZM re-opened it himself, leading to a predictable long follow-up discussion.

[Ottava]

Nihonjoe should have his Cratship removed for such a stunt.

Crats are supposed to be completely removed from such politics and also are limited to specific guidelines. He violated every single aspect of the policy (except for the whole Bot and Renaming part) in just this instance, and has a year long track record of screwing up (perhaps to cause drama and lulz, because he seems rather desperate for attention lately).

Where are all the Arbs about removing him? Why haven't you people gotten off your lazy butts and done it already. Instead, you bother with petty stuff and ban good users and let that troll walk around? Pathetic.

I pointed out the stupidity of having him here and people failed. You'd think when the community says "hell no" three times that chances are the guy has too many problems to be truly objective.



By the way, lets see if any current admin has the guts to do what is right and block Nihonjoe for abuse of process, WP:POINT, and just being a complete incivil douche.

This post has been edited by Ottava:

[Theanima]

Nihonjoe should have his Cratship removed for such a stunt.

For closing an RFA? That's what bureaucrats do, Ottava.

He violated every single aspect of the policy (except for the whole Bot and Renaming part) in just this instance, and has a year long track record of screwing up (perhaps to cause drama and lulz, because he seems rather desperate for attention lately).

Diffs? Evidence? Anything at all?

Where are all the Arbs about removing him? ... instead, you bother with petty stuff...

Urm...

By the way, lets see if any current admin has the guts to do what is right and block Nihonjoe for abuse of process, WP:POINT...

That would be actual abuse. Good thing you didn't become an admin, you'd have been worse than MZMcBride!

...and just being a complete incivil douche...

Just like you apparently. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Eva Destruction]

He violated every single aspect of the policy (except for the whole Bot and Renaming part) in just this instance, and has a year long track record of screwing up (perhaps to cause drama and lulz, because he seems rather desperate for attention lately).

Diffs? Evidence? Anything at all?

I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that Ottava has this in mind.

[Theanima]

He violated every single aspect of the policy (except for the whole Bot and Renaming part) in just this instance, and has a year long track record of screwing up (perhaps to cause drama and lulz, because he seems rather desperate for attention lately).

Diffs? Evidence? Anything at all?

I assume (correct me if I'm wrong) that Ottava has this in mind.

Ahh. I think it was pretty stupid of Postlethwaite to publicly label Tyciol, whether it was true or not, and should have left it to Arbcom. Nevertheless Nihonjoe shouldn't have made such a fuss about it.

[MZMcBride]

look at his answers to people who are asking about previous desysoppings:

6. Related to 4 and 5 above, but more to the point: You've broken the community's trust before, and lost your sysop bit as a result. What specific actions have you taken to regain that trust, and how are we to know you won't break it again?

A: I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you be a bit more specific?

Interesting that you left out the 350-word answer to the follow-up. What does that say about you?

someone should vote "Oppose I'm not sure I understand this RfA. Can you be a bit more specific?" or "Oppose Experience and understanding come with time. Give it about ten years."

You say that as though it would be funnier or more pithy than the current set of opposes. Account creation is free; go wild.

Still hasn't withdrawn RfA even though his odds are impossible and he just looks like a fool by now.

Well, better to look like a fool than be one. Or something.

Welcome to the Review, bluejayfan. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Anonymous editor]

look at his answers to people who are asking about previous desysoppings:

6. Related to 4 and 5 above, but more to the point: You've broken the community's trust before, and lost your sysop bit as a result. What specific actions have you taken to regain that trust, and how are we to know you won't break it again?

A: I'm not sure I understand your question. Can you be a bit more specific?

Interesting that you left out the 350-word answer to the follow-up. What does that say about you?

Baloney. That was your initial response to the questions. Zero attempt to explain at all. It took an awfully long time for you to respond at all. The tally stood at (38/93/13) when you finally did.

What does that say about you?

Consider this my oppose based on not even bothering to go into the whole thing, which is what people care about when someone is trying to get back the tools.

The smart move would have been to cut it off at the pass by making a statement at the beginning. But no, you couldn't be bothered. Then several people ask about various things related to the desysoppings, and instead of giving an explanation you knew people wanted, you chose to stall with "be more specific", when the questions were perfectly plain.

Then when pressed, you finally gave some kind of acknowledgment of the issues. Terrific. If you want plaudits for that, I'm afraid you'll have to look elsewhere.

This post has been edited by Anonymous editor:

[Somey]

Baloney. That was your initial response to the questions. Zero attempt to explain at all. It took an awfully long time for you to respond at all. The tally stood at (38/93/13) when you finally did.

What does that say about you?

That he has a low tolerance for bullshit? That's just a guess... (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

Two of the person(s) asking the question(s) about his "previous admin incarnations" (wtf kind of word-choice is that?) characterized the incident that led to his last "desysopping" as "helping a banned user vandalize unwatched BLPs." That, right there, shows just how utterly clueless, sheep-like, and insular the WP Faithful really are, at least as far as BLP issues are concerned.

Having said that, I can sort of see why they wouldn't want him to be an admin again, based strictly on his ability to "play nice," which has clearly decreased over time. (No offense, MZM - it's actually supposed to be a kind of back-handed compliment, in fact. Btw, does anybody remember if he played nice early on? I don't have time to research that question at the moment.)

[Anonymous editor]

Malleus, for one, would consider that a compliment.

I don't think it's necessarily a positive or a negative trait. It's just something that's necessary at times.

Since his primary objective here is not actually to pass the RfA, I guess playing nice isn't necessary at all.

[Milton Roe]

Kindly stop being a douche, Mikey.

What's wrong with a little hygiene?

Twat maintenence may be necessary, but is best not done in public. I think this should be a WP sixth pillar.

And as for the above discussion, WP:SNO should be better known.

[The Joy]

Why does a developer like MZM need administrator tools, anyhow? What does he need them for? To my knowledge, he was never a big blocker or XFD closer or the like.

[Theanima]

Why does a developer like MZM need administrator tools, anyhow? What does he need them for? To my knowledge, he was never a big blocker or XFD closer or the like.

He deleted a lot.

[Anonymous editor]

MZM loves his deletions.

[The Joy]

MZM loves his deletions.

Were they good deletions? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[Anonymous editor]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

[EricBarbour]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/sleep.gif)

Yep, that's him. The dorks don't like him because he's a deletionist. Ooohhh. Bad boy. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yecch.gif)

[The Joy]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Were there any prominent deletions that raised the ire of many Wikipedians?

Otherwise, I see no reason for him not to be an administrator.

[GlassBeadGame]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Sounds like a good start.

[Somey]

Sounds like a good start.

Heck, he shouldn't just be an administrator, he should be their Chief Technology Officer...

[Anonymous editor]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Were there any prominent deletions that raised the ire of many Wikipedians?

Otherwise, I see no reason for him not to be an administrator.

don't know, but it wasn't the deletions that people primarily took issue with.

Because he deleted a lot of stuff and most of it was insignificant cleanup, that means there's no reason for him not to be an admin? For me, I can set aside all the stuff he did, but not the way he's behaved during this RfA. Anyone with that history who seriously wanted to become an admin again, would not have to have the history dragged out of him, bit by bit, and would show at least some contrition, rather than taking a completely confrontational approach.

Rightly or wrongly, that won't work and he ought know better.

[The Joy]

dunno, do you want to look through 800,000+ deletions, most of which were automated?

Were there any prominent deletions that raised the ire of many Wikipedians?

Otherwise, I see no reason for him not to be an administrator.

don't know, but it wasn't the deletions that people primarily took issue with.

Because he deleted a lot of stuff and most of it was insignificant cleanup, that means there's no reason for him not to be an admin? For me, I can set aside all the stuff he did, but not the way he's behaved during this RfA. Anyone with that history who seriously wanted to become an admin again, would not have to have the history dragged out of him, bit by bit, and would show at least some contrition, rather than taking a completely confrontational approach.

Rightly or wrongly, that won't work and he ought know better.

The only major charges I can recall about MZM was his use of unauthorized bots (which he now gets permission to use), his giving sockpuppeting tips on this forum (which, IIRC, wasn't already known to most people anyhow and sophisticated puppeteers were already aware of. ), and his offer to help Greg find unwatched BLP articles (which resulted in an overreaction and proved regardless of Greg's involvement that Wikipedia cannot watch and maintain the large number of BLP articles anyway).

It shouldn't matter what the "Community" (i.e. a small dozen of socially elite editors and their kiddie sycophantic followers with colorful signatures and weak self-esteem with no ability to judge for themselves whether a person is capable to build and maintain a genuine encyclopedia.) wants, but whether MZM's skills can build an encyclopedia (which is what you guys want to build, right?). Yes, social and diplomatic skills are a plus, yet no one can overlook his technical expertise and MediaWiki experience. If Wikipedians were wise, they would take advantage of MZM's technical skills and have him help them create better bots, make sockpuppeting harder, and solve the BLP problem. Think of the opportunity wasted by holding on to past transgressions and keeping MZM from the tools!

What positives could MZM bring to Wikipedia with his administrator tools and would they outweigh the negatives, past and present? Think about it carefully and considerately.

[Anonymous editor]

Trust comes first and foremost. People are not willing to vote for someone who they can't trust. RfA voters want to feel that he won't repeat the things he did in the past, and from what he's said, it sounds like he's not interested in changing anything. People can forgive, but not when the candidate violates trust again and again without even admitting to doing anything wrong.

Now I will of course not argue that all administrators are trustworthy; indeed, some have proven themselves not worthy of the trust placed in them, but that doesn't change anything about this specific instance.

In response to your question, I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives from Wikipedia's perspective.

[Malleus]

Sounds like a good start.

Heck, he shouldn't just be an administrator, he should be their Chief Technology Officer...

I agree.

[The Joy]

Trust comes first and foremost. People are not willing to vote for someone who they can't trust. RfA voters want to feel that he won't repeat the things he did in the past, and from what he's said, it sounds like he's not interested in changing anything. People can forgive, but not when the candidate violates trust again and again without even admitting to doing anything wrong.

Now I will of course not argue that all administrators are trustworthy; indeed, some have proven themselves not worthy of the trust placed in them, but that doesn't change anything about this specific instance.

In response to your question, I don't think the positives outweigh the negatives from Wikipedia's perspective.

I'm being more of a devil's advocate than anything. There used to be a time that developers were given administrator tools without an RFA. I believe that a developer once ran for RFA a few years and received opposes for wasting the Community's time when he/she could have just asked for the tools and not gone through RFA. Now if a 'crat gave MZM the tools to aid in his capacity as a developer, the drama would be explosive and many resignations along with an ArbCom case would follow.

Strange that MZM did not provide a reason for wanting the tools in the first place, except stating that he was a long time editor and developer. Had he provided some good reasons for having the tools, perhaps he would have had more supports.

I'm thinking this is more of a social experiment.

Sounds like a good start.

Heck, he shouldn't just be an administrator, he should be their Chief Technology Officer...

I agree.

Oh, yes, definitely. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Anonymous editor]

Strange that MZM did not provide a reason for wanting the tools in the first place, except stating that he was a long time editor and developer. Had he provided some good reasons for having the tools, perhaps he would have had more supports.

No question. I think one of the opposes stated as much.

I'm thinking this is more of a social experiment.

I agree, as I was saying earlier in the thread.

[A Horse With No Name]

As RfA train wrecks go, this is pretty impressive. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

When is Ironholds going back for another grab at the tools? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Ottava]

I still have 3 more opposes, 2 more neutrals, and 13 more supports than what McBride does now, but I have a feeling that my record may be crushed. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

I still have 3 more opposes, 2 more neutrals, and 13 more supports than what McBride does now, but I have a feeling that my record may be crushed. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

That's like Lyndon LaRouche and Bat Buchanan arguing over who ran a better presidential campaign.

[Ottava]

I still have 3 more opposes, 2 more neutrals, and 13 more supports than what McBride does now, but I have a feeling that my record may be crushed. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unhappy.gif)

That's like Lyndon LaRouche and Bat Buchanan arguing over who ran a better presidential campaign.

I hope I'm Buchanan in that analogy (I assume you mean Pat?). (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[CharlotteWebb]

Hmm, too bad Kurt seems to be retired. I'd like to hear his opinion on all this.

[Peripitus]

As RfA train wrecks go, this is pretty impressive. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

I can't work out if MZM sought pain, attention, drama or all three, as this result was predictable. It's like a boo'd off comedian returning to the stage just to collect more rotten fruit.

When is Ironholds going back for another grab at the tools? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Durova ?

[A Horse With No Name]

When is Ironholds going back for another grab at the tools? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

Durova ?

Get Steve Crossin, Wisdom89 and Ten Pound Hammer to throw their hats into the RfA ring again, and we can have a John Henry-worthy train wreck! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

I would like to see Malleus go for adminship -- I'd put money down that he would pass (narrowly, perhaps, but he'd make the grade).