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Posted by: Tarc
So, if anyone's interested, the issue of the Japanese loli mascot has come up again. Started off with an MfD on a joke-ish "think of the children" page; Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Think of Wikipe-tan! (T-H-L-K-D), spilled into ANI, attempts to remove its usage from everywhere, etc...
Posted by: Jon Awbrey
This has been discussed a lot recently, especially in connection with the sexism issue, but if you want to know what it's really about, you can think of it as the Wikipediot analogue of http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/05/joecamel.shtm.
Jon 
Posted by: Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 25th February 2011, 12:18am) 
This has been discussed a lot recently, especially in connection with the sexism issue, but if you want to know what it's really about, you can think of it as the Wikipediot analogue of http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/05/joecamel.shtm.
Jon
Oh, I guess it was on Facebook that we were having the big discussion of Wikipe-tan.
I don't know if this will work, but here is the https://www.facebook.com/cooties/posts/195319103829432.
Jon
Posted by: Jon Awbrey
One of the more plaintive threads on the GG list is http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/gendergap/2011-February/thread.html#27.
The Wikipediot answer? Replace Wikipe-tan with Puzzly.
No kidding …
Jon 
Posted by: EricBarbour
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 24th February 2011, 9:54pm)
I don't know if this will work, but here is the https://www.facebook.com/cooties/posts/195319103829432.
Deleted......
I just love this kind of crap. Better than TV.
Good luck convincing the basement dwellers, Tarc......
QUOTE
* Delete - The Wikipe-tan concept itself is just a product of undersexed basement-dwellers. Whether the page version is the slutty one or the sanitized one, it just has no relevance or purpose in regards to the project. I like smut as much as the next guy, or girl, but this whole thing is just retarded. Tarc (talk) 16:57, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for attacking wikipedia's mascot and those who support it, I find what you type offensive and by your reasoning it sounds like you are against having wikipe-tan on wikipedia nevermind just this page. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Heh, this sexualized, pre-pubescent anime tartlet is most certainly not the Wikipedia mascot, despite what some may have tried many years ago. And yes, I oppose the usage of this...thing anywhere. Tarc (talk) 17:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Whether or not you accept it, she's still an unoffiical mascot and has been acknowledged as such.陣内Jinnai 17:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Um, that's the key here; unofficial. The point is that this thing is recognized/utilized by, at best, a tiny subset of Wikipdia users. You act like it is some universally-recognized Mickey Mouse-like character, worldly synonymous with the Wikipedia. Trust me bro, it ain't. About the only non-Wikipedia mention I have ever seen of this thing is the Encyclopedia Dramatica satirization. And if you have never been there or seen it, trust me; you Wikipe-tan otaku are not being portrayed in a favorable light. Tarc (talk) 17:49, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan lists a few more places than you know. I'm sure there are more. Just because you haven't personally seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 陣内Jinnai 18:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Agreed wikipe-tan is featured in templates, official guideline pages, and other areas of wiki, she has become part of wikipedia over the years. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:34, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
You two can keep the red herrings flying away and missing the point if you wish. Keep your little Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan page and WikiProject figureheads for now...those can be the subject of another discussion if someone wishes; but THIS particular Think of... article is just over the top and does not belong in the main Wikipedia: space. It's a dumb in-joke for a select few fanboys, a riff of the old think of the children line. Tarc (talk) 20:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Thank you for attacking wikipedia's mascot and those who support it, I find what you type offensive and by your reasoning it sounds like you are against having wikipe-tan on wikipedia nevermind just this page. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 17:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Heh, this sexualized, pre-pubescent anime tartlet is most certainly not the Wikipedia mascot, despite what some may have tried many years ago. And yes, I oppose the usage of this...thing anywhere. Tarc (talk) 17:17, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Whether or not you accept it, she's still an unoffiical mascot and has been acknowledged as such.陣内Jinnai 17:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Um, that's the key here; unofficial. The point is that this thing is recognized/utilized by, at best, a tiny subset of Wikipdia users. You act like it is some universally-recognized Mickey Mouse-like character, worldly synonymous with the Wikipedia. Trust me bro, it ain't. About the only non-Wikipedia mention I have ever seen of this thing is the Encyclopedia Dramatica satirization. And if you have never been there or seen it, trust me; you Wikipe-tan otaku are not being portrayed in a favorable light. Tarc (talk) 17:49, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan lists a few more places than you know. I'm sure there are more. Just because you haven't personally seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. 陣内Jinnai 18:25, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Agreed wikipe-tan is featured in templates, official guideline pages, and other areas of wiki, she has become part of wikipedia over the years. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 18:34, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
You two can keep the red herrings flying away and missing the point if you wish. Keep your little Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan page and WikiProject figureheads for now...those can be the subject of another discussion if someone wishes; but THIS particular Think of... article is just over the top and does not belong in the main Wikipedia: space. It's a dumb in-joke for a select few fanboys, a riff of the old think of the children line. Tarc (talk) 20:01, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
Posted by: Alison
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 24th February 2011, 9:54pm)
I don't know if this will work, but here is the https://www.facebook.com/cooties/posts/195319103829432.
Jon
It won't, and it's set to 'Friends-only' (that's my Facebook page link). I don't think Mark Zuckerberg lets you retro-public a thread. I tried to but I can't
but feel free to repost bits out of it here, tho' ...
Posted by: the fieryangel
QUOTE(Alison @ Fri 25th February 2011, 8:23am)
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 24th February 2011, 9:54pm)
I don't know if this will work, but here is the https://www.facebook.com/cooties/posts/195319103829432.
Jon
It won't, and it's set to 'Friends-only' (that's my Facebook page link). I don't think Mark Zuckerberg lets you retro-public a thread. I tried to but I can't
but feel free to repost bits out of it here, tho' ...This is my favorite part of that discussion :
QUOTE
#
drawings of "Wikipe-tan" on Commons, which managed to survive a deletion request until Jimbo stepped in and deleted it himself. (A sort of harbinger to the later porn wars on Commons.) One of the most enthusiastic "keep" voters there was an admin on enwiki who was later banned for pro-pedophilia sockpuppetry, as I recall.
February 15 at 6:15am · LikeUnlike
#
Jonny Cache Citation Needed
February 15 at 6:17am · LikeUnlike
#
Barry Kort Citation, hell.
They need a Summons.
I was gonna suggest a Good Spanking, too, but they'd probably get all excited at that prospect.
February 15 at 6:24am · Like
drawings of "Wikipe-tan" on Commons, which managed to survive a deletion request until Jimbo stepped in and deleted it himself. (A sort of harbinger to the later porn wars on Commons.) One of the most enthusiastic "keep" voters there was an admin on enwiki who was later banned for pro-pedophilia sockpuppetry, as I recall.
February 15 at 6:15am · LikeUnlike
#
Jonny Cache Citation Needed
February 15 at 6:17am · LikeUnlike
#
Barry Kort Citation, hell.
They need a Summons.
I was gonna suggest a Good Spanking, too, but they'd probably get all excited at that prospect.
February 15 at 6:24am · Like
Barry always hits the nail right on the head!
Posted by: Tarc
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 25th February 2011, 1:26am)
I just love this kind of crap. Better than TV.
Good luck convincing the basement dwellers, Tarc......
Good luck convincing the basement dwellers, Tarc......
There are a few that sure do have their hackles up over this. They're having a discussion over at the anime-manga project page about what to do, and one of the possibilities gaining traction is to crate a male -tan counterpart.
There's a few different issues in all this that have unfortunately gotten all mixed in with each other. Wikipe-tan in project space and Wikipe-tan in article-space. The former should be a no-brainer, esp the "think of..." riff.
It's a funny position to be in since I actually happen to like a great deal of anime.
Posted by: Jon Awbrey
QUOTE(Tarc @ Fri 25th February 2011, 9:56am)
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 25th February 2011, 1:26am)
I just love this kind of crap. Better than TV.
Good luck convincing the basement dwellers, Tarc ……
There are a few that sure do have their hackles up over this. They're having a discussion over at the anime-manga project page about what to do, and one of the possibilities gaining traction is to crate a male -tan counterpart.
There's a few different issues in all this that have unfortunately gotten all mixed in with each other. Wikipe-tan in project space and Wikipe-tan in article-space. The former should be a no-brainer, esp the "think of…" riff.
It's a funny position to be in since I actually happen to like a great deal of anime.
Which part is in the Non-501(â€câ€)(â€3â€) Adult Educational Public Charity space?
Jon
Posted by: Zoloft
QUOTE(Tarc @ Fri 25th February 2011, 6:56am)
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Fri 25th February 2011, 1:26am)
I just love this kind of crap. Better than TV.
Good luck convincing the basement dwellers, Tarc......
Good luck convincing the basement dwellers, Tarc......
There are a few that sure do have their hackles up over this. They're having a discussion over at the anime-manga project page about what to do, and one of the possibilities gaining traction is to crate a male -tan counterpart.
There's a few different issues in all this that have unfortunately gotten all mixed in with each other. Wikipe-tan in project space and Wikipe-tan in article-space. The former should be a no-brainer, esp the "think of..." riff.
It's a funny position to be in since I actually happen to like a great deal of anime.
Perhaps we should at some point compare Wikipedia to Death Note.
I feel that having Wikipe-tan as a mascot, if she's appropriately portrayed, is much better than using 'Wikipede'.
Posted by: Jon Awbrey
I can hardly do much better on this issue than quoting these words of wisdom from Jonny Cache:
QUOTE
The issue for me is not censorship, or else I'd personally be choosing to err on the side of the ACLU if I had to err at all. The issues are things like Hostile Work Environment, Child Labor, Truth In Advertising, and the Definition of an Encyclopedia. I believe in the maximum rational freedom of artistic expression and scientific inquiry. That means we have to tolerate all sorts of crap in the world, but it doesn't mean you can have your favorite e-rotica as your screen-saver at work, it doesn't mean you can experiment on undergraduates without going through proper channels, and it doesn't mean you can e-tice children “volunteers†to work into the early AM with who knows, or who cares, what kinds of adult “volunteers†on your tax-advantaged “charity†project for free.
— Jonny Cache • February 15 (9:54 am)
Wikipe-tan is WP:Joe Camel. It has to do with grooming youngsters to Wikipedia Kultur. It's a little bit of sexism but a whole lot of child endangerment. Responsible adults understand that. Wikipediots do not.
Jon Awbrey
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(Tarc @ Fri 25th February 2011, 9:56am)
...one of the possibilities gaining traction is to crate a male -tan counterpart.
If they do that, then they're going to need a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futanari-tan counter-counterpart!
Posted by: Obesity
i, for one, would like to see images of wikipetan being groped and molested. preferably while using public transit.
Posted by: EricBarbour
QUOTE(Zoloft @ Fri 25th February 2011, 7:07am)
Perhaps we should at some point compare Wikipedia to Death Note.
I was thinking more along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gantz. That's how it works. You ass belongs to Wikipedia, so shut up and fight for survival.
Don't ask questions, there are no answers.
QUOTE(Obesity @ Fri 25th February 2011, 9:15pm)
i, for one, would like to see images of wikipetan being groped and molested. preferably while using public transit.
http://io9.com/#!5403562/militant-cute-and-sexy-politics-in-japanese-moe-comics is pretty good.
Posted by: Text
No ideas for Citizen-tan, Verope-tan, MyWiki-tan?
QUOTE
i, for one, would like to see images of wikipetan being groped and molested. preferably while using public transit.
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(Text @ Sat 26th February 2011, 6:05am)
No ideas for ... MyWiki-tan?
Most of our active editors are grown-ups who (as far as I know) don't get a kick out of pre-pubescent cartoon fetishes.
Posted by: Obesity
QUOTE(thekohser @ Sat 26th February 2011, 11:18am)
QUOTE(Text @ Sat 26th February 2011, 6:05am)
No ideas for ... MyWiki-tan?
Most of our active editors are grown-ups who (as far as I know) don't get a kick out of pre-pubescent cartoon fetishes.
Speak for yourself. Besides wikipe-tan told me she was 18 (14 in some jurisdictions, like Idaho). What am I supposed to do, check IDs?
Posted by: Text
QUOTE
Most of our active editors are grown-ups who (as far as I know) don't get a kick out of pre-pubescent cartoon fetishes.
It's a possile reason why the Wikipede (which is the actual official mascot for wikipedia as voted in 2006) isn't considered at all by most wikipediots. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikipede
Japan takes things from the Western way of life and turbocharges them. In 1543 the first European firearms were introduced to a small japanese island, and a year later the skilled swordsmiths managed to replicate the guns, making them even better, and creating new styles of advanced warfare.
In 2000 and beyond they have cities bigger than some on the american counterparts, developing a rich culture with advanced technology, and yet they sell used schoolgirl panties through vending machines, and have inserted weird concepts in everyday comics and even normal objects.
Posted by: victim of censorship
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 24th February 2011, 11:54pm)
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 25th February 2011, 12:18am)
This has been discussed a lot recently, especially in connection with the sexism issue, but if you want to know what it's really about, you can think of it as the Wikipediot analogue of http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1997/05/joecamel.shtm.
Jon
Oh, I guess it was on Facebook that we were having the big discussion of Wikipe-tan.
I don't know if this will work, but here is the https://www.facebook.com/cooties/posts/195319103829432.
Jon
Out of the mouth of babes you get truth.
Posted by: Text
WARNING: NOT SAFE FOR WORK
http://r34.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=wikipedia
Now Jimbo can seriously complain 
Posted by: EricBarbour
QUOTE(Text @ Sat 26th February 2011, 2:03pm)
WARNING: NOT SAFE FOR WORK
http://r34.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=wikipedia
Now Jimbo can seriously complain
THAT's what I was looking for.
There are some artists doing Wikipe-tan porn, but they usually post on sites that charge for admission.
Probably because they are embarrassing to, yet often used for masturbation purposes by, WP fanboiz.
Someday, someone will write a big fat textbook about the phenomenon of "Booru" imageboard sites.
Or, more likely, a long, incoherent Wikipedia article.
Posted by: carbuncle
QUOTE
Commons:Deletion requests/File:Wikipe-tan in swimwear.jpg
Image isn't the best of quality and is of little educational value. In addition it depicts a pre-teen girl in swimwear, a form that is not usually acceptable. I appreciate we have a policy of "not censored" but this image is not used in any educational context or to demonstrate any particular style of image. In addition within Wikimedia it appears only to be used within project namespace in association with Wikipe-tan pages ErrantX (talk) 12:09, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
Image isn't the best of quality and is of little educational value. In addition it depicts a pre-teen girl in swimwear, a form that is not usually acceptable. I appreciate we have a policy of "not censored" but this image is not used in any educational context or to demonstrate any particular style of image. In addition within Wikimedia it appears only to be used within project namespace in association with Wikipe-tan pages ErrantX (talk) 12:09, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
* Delete. Tasteless and useless, unusable for any legitimate "mascot"-style use, and clearly no educational value. Outside project scope. Fut.Perf. ☼ 12:30, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wikipe-tan_in_swimwear.jpg
Oddly, this deletion nomination is by the same person who just before said this at ANI:
QUOTE
Ok, just to clear this up; there is no real concern in my mind over Wikipe-tan being a "sexualized image of a prepubescent girl". I'm not really a fan of the image, but the suggestion in that deletion thread seems to be that she verges onto the wrong side of child porn. Or that people who like such an image are in some way disturbed (or worse). My expert opinion on this is that there is no issue; Wikipe-tan is about as far from Child porn as you can get, and the people who enjoy such imagery are, psychologically speaking, nowhere near to pedophiles. If we are to get technical imagery like this is usually intended to evoke the tragic innocence of youth (personified by a girl or effeminate male) - tragic because you quickly lose such innocence. It's supposed to be beautiful rather than creepy, and the image some people obviously have of guys furiously masturbating to pseudo-CP is way off base 
This is an unfortunate side effect of a society where the social crime of paedophilia is (rightly) treated with extreme disdain. My point being that concerns over sexualisation and "worshipping" of this image are unfortunate, not based in any form of factual reality. 
Although I entirely understand and sympathise with such thinking. Leaving Tarc a note about cooling off. --Errant (chat!) 09:26, 4 March 2011 (UTC)
This is an unfortunate side effect of a society where the social crime of paedophilia is (rightly) treated with extreme disdain. My point being that concerns over sexualisation and "worshipping" of this image are unfortunate, not based in any form of factual reality. Although I entirely understand and sympathise with such thinking. Leaving Tarc a note about cooling off. --Errant (chat!) 09:26, 4 March 2011 (UTC)Posted by: Tarc
Be it furries, otherkin, soulbonders, or lolicon-lovers, these types sure do get their collective dicks in a pickle when someone treads on their holy ground.
Posted by: Silver seren
Thanks for considering furries and otherkin to be separate. I appreciate that.
Posted by: Zoloft
QUOTE(Silver seren @ Fri 4th March 2011, 10:33am)
Thanks for considering furries and otherkin to be separate. I appreciate that.
Everything has its place in the hierarchy of weird. I include myself in that hierarchy, under 'writer.'
Posted by: Tarc
I mean, it's still degrees of freakiness (no offense ), but simply "dressing up as" vs. "Holy Shit I am the Living Reincarnation of..." is leagues apart, yea.
Anyways, barring a supremely ballsy admin ) or an Office Action™, it appears that the main -tan page there is going to stick. 
Posted by: bi-winning
QUOTE(victim of censorship @ Sat 26th February 2011, 10:11am)
Out of the mouth of babes you get truth.
It's funny because it's true. Except who the hell is Joe???
Posted by: carbuncle
QUOTE(bi-winning @ Fri 11th March 2011, 4:25am)
It's funny because it's true. Except who the hell is Joe???
"Uncle Joe" Stalin, whose ghost haunts WP, causing edit conflicts and SVG rendering problems.
Posted by: bi-winning
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 11th March 2011, 4:56am)
QUOTE(bi-winning @ Fri 11th March 2011, 4:25am)
It's funny because it's true. Except who the hell is Joe???
"Uncle Joe" Stalin, whose ghost haunts WP, causing edit conflicts and SVG rendering problems.
Damn communists.
I withdraw all my IP property from the ATM machine. Keeps it safe from Wikipedia.
Posted by: Doc glasgow
Does http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/38/Jumping_Wikipe-tan.svgserve to create a "sexist environment"? Is it inappropriate?
It is up for deletion http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/File:Jumping_Wikipe-tan.svg#File:Jumping_Wikipe-tan.svg
Discuss....
(Sorry, don't know how to upload the image directly here, can someone else do it?)
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 24th March 2011, 10:34am)
Discuss....
Derrick Coatzee was the first to vote "Keep".
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Derrick_Coetzee_in_front_of_agapanthus.jpg is Derrick Coatzee. Recognize the Erik Moeller-style grin?
Derrick Coatzee would http://www.webcitation.org/5rgUllAJf self-avowed pedophiles to Wikipedia.
Derrick Coatzee also thinks it's http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8151989.stm high-resolution images from other organizations.
Class dismissed.
Posted by: Doc glasgow
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 24th March 2011, 4:03pm)
.
Derrick Coatzee also thinks it's http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8151989.stm high-resolution images from other organizations.
It's OK, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-21/News_and_notes.
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 24th March 2011, 12:48pm)
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 24th March 2011, 4:03pm)
.
Derrick Coatzee also thinks it's http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8151989.stm high-resolution images from other organizations.
It's OK, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-21/News_and_notes.
Once I strike someone over the head with a mallet, I am not likely to be surprised if they should hit me back with a stick. Especially if they initially had a sign on them that reads, "Do not physically strike me with any objects," but my sign says, "It is permissible to hit me with a stick, but please attribute your blow in writing before striking me."
Posted by: lilburne
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 24th March 2011, 4:48pm)
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 24th March 2011, 4:03pm)
.
Derrick Coatzee also thinks it's http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/arts_and_culture/8151989.stm high-resolution images from other organizations.
It's OK, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2011-03-21/News_and_notes.
Problem is you don't have copyright on any of that.
QUOTE
(b London, May 1617; d London, July 1694). English painter. He was the son of James Wright, a tailor, and from 1636 to 1641 was apprenticed to the Edinburgh portrait painter George Jamesone. In the early 1640s he left Scotland for Rome, where he painted his earliest known portrait, Robert Bruce, 1st Earl of Ailesbury (Tottenham House, Wilts, Marquess of Ailesbury priv. col.).
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/john-wright#ixzz1HXyTsy7n
The above is from "Oxford Grove Art"
QUOTE
Born in May 1617, he was the son of a tailor names James Wright. Between 1636 and 1641 John Wright was apprenticed to George Jamesone an Edinburgh portrait painter. He travelled from Scotland to Rome in the 1640s, and there he produced his earliest known portrait: Robert Bruce, 1st Earl of Ailesbury (currently in Marquess of Ailesbury's private collection in Tottenham House).[1]
And the above is from our own good Doc.
Posted by: Silver seren
That image just made me laugh. Dear god, that's creepy. Is that like the butch lesbian version of Wikipe-tan?
Posted by: Doc glasgow
QUOTE(lilburne @ Thu 24th March 2011, 7:33pm)
Problem is you don't have copyright on any of that.
QUOTE
(b London, May 1617; d London, July 1694). English painter. He was the son of James Wright, a tailor, and from 1636 to 1641 was apprenticed to the Edinburgh portrait painter George Jamesone. In the early 1640s he left Scotland for Rome, where he painted his earliest known portrait, Robert Bruce, 1st Earl of Ailesbury (Tottenham House, Wilts, Marquess of Ailesbury priv. col.).
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/john-wright#ixzz1HXyTsy7n
The above is from "Oxford Grove Art"
QUOTE
Born in May 1617, he was the son of a tailor names James Wright. Between 1636 and 1641 John Wright was apprenticed to George Jamesone an Edinburgh portrait painter. He travelled from Scotland to Rome in the 1640s, and there he produced his earliest known portrait: Robert Bruce, 1st Earl of Ailesbury (currently in Marquess of Ailesbury's private collection in Tottenham House).[1]
And the above is from our own good Doc.
My information came from the Grove Art dictionary, which was acknowledged in the footnote. There's only a certain number of ways of recording that information.
The NPG acknowledged no source whatsoever and indeed claimed the work as its own. It also used a far more sophisticated version of the text, which I created from information from multiple sources. So, yes, in any fair estimation I DO own the copyright. The NPG are, naturally, free to use it under the Wikipedia CC licence - but they are required to acknowledge the source.
Posted by: lilburne
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 24th March 2011, 9:36pm)
QUOTE(lilburne @ Thu 24th March 2011, 7:33pm)
Problem is you don't have copyright on any of that.
QUOTE
(b London, May 1617; d London, July 1694). English painter. He was the son of James Wright, a tailor, and from 1636 to 1641 was apprenticed to the Edinburgh portrait painter George Jamesone. In the early 1640s he left Scotland for Rome, where he painted his earliest known portrait, Robert Bruce, 1st Earl of Ailesbury (Tottenham House, Wilts, Marquess of Ailesbury priv. col.).
Read more: http://www.answers.com/topic/john-wright#ixzz1HXyTsy7n
The above is from "Oxford Grove Art"
QUOTE
Born in May 1617, he was the son of a tailor names James Wright. Between 1636 and 1641 John Wright was apprenticed to George Jamesone an Edinburgh portrait painter. He travelled from Scotland to Rome in the 1640s, and there he produced his earliest known portrait: Robert Bruce, 1st Earl of Ailesbury (currently in Marquess of Ailesbury's private collection in Tottenham House).[1]
And the above is from our own good Doc.
My information came from the Grove Art dictionary, which was acknowledged in the footnote. There's only a certain number of ways of recording that information.
As such there is no WMF copyright on the text at all. It resides totally with Grove Art and for all you know they well have an arrangement with the NPG, or the NPG may well have provided Grove Art with the original text.
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 24th March 2011, 9:36pm)
The NPG acknowledged no source whatsoever and indeed claimed the work as its own. It also used a far more sophisticated version of the text, which I created from information from multiple sources. So, yes, in any fair estimation I DO own the copyright. The NPG are, naturally, free to use it under the Wikipedia CC licence - but they are required to acknowledge the source.
Again you do not have copyright on the text. Cobbling together bits of text from various sources does not give you copyright, unless you are claiming copyright by dint of sweat of brow, which is of course exactly what you have denied that the NPG is entitled to do.
Posted by: Doc glasgow
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:LoliWikipetan.jpg - I mean we must save the kiddie-porn.
Disgusting. 
Posted by: The Joy
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Tue 14th June 2011, 5:04pm)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:LoliWikipetan.jpg - I mean we must save the kiddie-porn.
Disgusting.
How long before he finds this thread and accuses opposers of being part of an "off-wiki conspiracy by anti-Wikipedians to destroy Commons and Wikipedia?"
Posted by: Alison
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Tue 14th June 2011, 2:04pm)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:LoliWikipetan.jpg - I mean we must save the kiddie-porn.
Disgusting.
Think that's good? Wait till you see the request http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Files_by_User:Midnight68; a petition to undelete all of banned editor Midnight68's/TGComix' little-girl-panty-fetish pics that he drew himself. Because the project really needs more poor-quality upskirt pics of children and their underwear
Posted by: Michaeldsuarez
QUOTE(Alison @ Tue 14th June 2011, 7:57pm)
Think that's good? Wait till you see the request http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Files_by_User:Midnight68; a petition to undelete all of banned editor Midnight68's.TGComix' little-girl-panty-fetish pics that he drew himself. Because the project really needs more poor-quality upskirt pics of children and their underwear
http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests&diff=55506708&oldid=55506354
Inb4 someone screams censorship or claims that my argument isn't in the spirit of what Commons is.
Posted by: carbuncle
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Tue 14th June 2011, 9:04pm)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:LoliWikipetan.jpg - I mean we must save the kiddie-porn.
Disgusting.
No, no, no, you've got it all wrong.
QUOTE
I am proposing undeletion because I want the decision regarding whether this image is kept to be based on community consensus, and not Jimbo's reactionary whims. I am content to accept whatever outcome results here. Dcoetzee (talk) 22:52, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
Posted by: tarantino
QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Tue 14th June 2011, 9:04pm)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#File:LoliWikipetan.jpg - I mean we must save the kiddie-porn.
Disgusting.
I again fell the need to point out that http://www.okcupid.com/profile/dcoetzee who advocates the legalization of consensual fucking by close family members.
Posted by: EricBarbour
QUOTE(tarantino @ Tue 14th June 2011, 7:00pm)
I again fell the need to point out that http://www.okcupid.com/profile/dcoetzee who advocates the legalization of consensual fucking by close family members.
Wikipedia! No matter how crazy you are, we welcome you!
(
Just suck up to Jimbo, and you're a-okay. )
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Tue 14th June 2011, 10:20pm)
QUOTE(tarantino @ Tue 14th June 2011, 7:00pm)
I again fell the need to point out that http://www.okcupid.com/profile/dcoetzee who advocates the legalization of consensual fucking by close family members.
Wikipedia! No matter how crazy you are, we welcome you!
(
Just suck up to Jimbo, and you're a-okay. )And if you steal enough photos from the National Portrait Gallery, you'll even be rewarded with a http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sue_Gardner_and_Derrick_Coetzee_in_discussion,_2011-01-07.jpg!
Posted by: carbuncle
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 15th June 2011, 3:39am)
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Tue 14th June 2011, 10:20pm)
QUOTE(tarantino @ Tue 14th June 2011, 7:00pm)
I again fell the need to point out that http://www.okcupid.com/profile/dcoetzee who advocates the legalization of consensual fucking by close family members.
Wikipedia! No matter how crazy you are, we welcome you!
(
Just suck up to Jimbo, and you're a-okay. )And if you steal enough photos from the National Portrait Gallery, you'll even be rewarded with a http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sue_Gardner_and_Derrick_Coetzee_in_discussion,_2011-01-07.jpg!
I note that she made sure there was a physical barrier between them, and keys within reach should she need a weapon. Joking. Of course.
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Wed 15th June 2011, 9:33am)
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 15th June 2011, 3:39am)
And if you steal enough photos from the National Portrait Gallery, you'll even be rewarded with a http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sue_Gardner_and_Derrick_Coetzee_in_discussion,_2011-01-07.jpg!
I note that she made sure there was a physical barrier between them, and keys within reach should she need a weapon. Joking. Of course.
Someone in the foreground is also prepared with a decisive karate chop if things get out of hand!
Posted by: Alison
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!! 
Posted by: The Joy
QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 16th June 2011, 12:44am)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!!
How many penises does a website need? Porn sites have less penises than Commons.
Posted by: Zoloft
QUOTE(The Joy @ Wed 15th June 2011, 10:40pm)
How many penises does a website need? Porn sites have less penises than Commons.
It's a sausage festival!
Posted by: carbuncle
QUOTE(The Joy @ Thu 16th June 2011, 5:40am)
QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 16th June 2011, 12:44am)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!!
How many penises does a website need? Porn sites have less penises than Commons.
Surprisingly, the are no penises on http://penisland.net.
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Thu 16th June 2011, 10:35am)
Surprisingly, the are no penises on http://penisland.net.
That's got to be a joke site, right? I mean they offer:
QUOTE
...a long and skinny...
...a thick...
...[one] that squirts...
...or even a black...
...a thick...
...[one] that squirts...
...or even a black...
Posted by: EricBarbour
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 16th June 2011, 11:39am)
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Thu 16th June 2011, 10:35am)
Surprisingly, the are no penises on http://penisland.net.
Well, it's http://www.snopes.com/business/names/domains.asp snopes.com, so......
Posted by: Zoloft
QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 16th June 2011, 11:39am)
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Thu 16th June 2011, 10:35am)
Surprisingly, the are no penises on http://penisland.net.
That's got to be a joke site, right? I mean they offer:
QUOTE
...a long and skinny...
...a thick...
...[one] that squirts...
...or even a black...
...a thick...
...[one] that squirts...
...or even a black...
I thought long and hard before clicking on that link.
Posted by: Ron Ritzman
QUOTE(The Joy @ Thu 16th June 2011, 1:40am)
How many penises does a website need? Porn sites have less penises than Commons.
A loose paraphrase of something said on the wiki-en mailing list a few years ago.
"Commons, the only educational resource with more dicks then ducks".
Posted by: HRIP7
QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 16th June 2011, 5:44am)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!!
We could start a penis gap list, as an outreach to the black community.
I guess that's why they didn't bother asking about editors' race in the editor survey. You just look at the Commons penis gallery. It tells you all you need to know: there are no black folks on Wikimedia. (Except for Malik Shabazz (T-C-L-K-R-D) , and he isn't stupid enough to post his dick to Commons. And then there was Deeceevoice (T-C-L-K-R-D) , but she's female, and the white boys deleted everything she wrote.)
Posted by: melloden
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sun 19th June 2011, 3:36am)
QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 16th June 2011, 5:44am)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!!
We could start a penis gap list, as an outreach to the black community.
I guess that's why they didn't bother asking about editors' race in the editor survey. You just look at the Commons penis gallery. It tells you all you need to know: there are no black folks on Wikimedia. (Except for Malik Shabazz (T-C-L-K-R-D) , and he isn't stupid enough to post his dick to Commons. And then there was Deeceevoice (T-C-L-K-R-D) , but she's female, and the white boys deleted everything she wrote.)
I think TonyTheTiger is black.
Anyway, only goes to show that the WMF is so concerned about getting female editors that they don't seem to care about all the missing black editors outside of the African Wikipedias. Or Hispanic editors outside of those Wikipedias, etc.
Posted by: Gruntled
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sun 19th June 2011, 4:36am)
I'm aware of a "black folk" who was blocked as a sockpuppet of a "white folk". That proves that WP admins make no distinction between white and black people!
Posted by: carbuncle
QUOTE(melloden @ Sun 19th June 2011, 3:58am)
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sun 19th June 2011, 3:36am)
QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 16th June 2011, 5:44am)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!!
We could start a penis gap list, as an outreach to the black community.
I guess that's why they didn't bother asking about editors' race in the editor survey. You just look at the Commons penis gallery. It tells you all you need to know: there are no black folks on Wikimedia. (Except for Malik Shabazz (T-C-L-K-R-D) , and he isn't stupid enough to post his dick to Commons. And then there was Deeceevoice (T-C-L-K-R-D) , but she's female, and the white boys deleted everything she wrote.)
I think TonyTheTiger is black.
Anyway, only goes to show that the WMF is so concerned about getting female editors that they don't seem to care about all the missing black editors outside of the African Wikipedias. Or Hispanic editors outside of those Wikipedias, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BlackNYer is black, as indicated by their name and demonstrated by their use of the word "yo". And clearly not a sockpuppet of David Shankbone.
Posted by: Milton Roe
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 19th June 2011, 8:10am)
QUOTE(melloden @ Sun 19th June 2011, 3:58am)
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sun 19th June 2011, 3:36am)
QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 16th June 2011, 5:44am)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!!
We could start a penis gap list, as an outreach to the black community.
I guess that's why they didn't bother asking about editors' race in the editor survey. You just look at the Commons penis gallery. It tells you all you need to know: there are no black folks on Wikimedia. (Except for Malik Shabazz (T-C-L-K-R-D) , and he isn't stupid enough to post his dick to Commons. And then there was Deeceevoice (T-C-L-K-R-D) , but she's female, and the white boys deleted everything she wrote.)
I think TonyTheTiger is black.
Anyway, only goes to show that the WMF is so concerned about getting female editors that they don't seem to care about all the missing black editors outside of the African Wikipedias. Or Hispanic editors outside of those Wikipedias, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BlackNYer is black, as indicated by their name and demonstrated by their use of the word "yo". And clearly not a sockpuppet of David Shankbone.
The idea that everyone on WP who says they are black should be taken at their word, is very droll. Malik Shabbaz, despite his archetypically black name (look it up if you don't know who this historical name belonged to), is clearly a politically correct Jewish white boy doing a lot of projection. And my guess is that BlackNYer is, also. Big Kahuna, right. I'll bet he surfs in Hawaii in his spare time, and do many black people.
Posted by: thekohser
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 19th June 2011, 11:10am)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BlackNYer is black, as indicated by their name and demonstrated by their use of the word "yo". And clearly not a sockpuppet of David Shankbone.
I'm sure that Michael Lucas (director) has a large African-American following!
Posted by: Milton Roe
QUOTE(thekohser @ Sun 19th June 2011, 10:20am)
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 19th June 2011, 11:10am)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BlackNYer is black, as indicated by their name and demonstrated by their use of the word "yo". And clearly not a sockpuppet of David Shankbone.
I'm sure that Michael Lucas (director) has a large African-American following!
In fact, a large one following very, very, very closely....
Posted by: melloden
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sun 19th June 2011, 4:56pm)
QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 19th June 2011, 8:10am)
QUOTE(melloden @ Sun 19th June 2011, 3:58am)
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sun 19th June 2011, 3:36am)
QUOTE(Alison @ Thu 16th June 2011, 5:44am)
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#More_penises (just white ones, mm-kay?). http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Undeletion_requests/Current_requests#Oh_yes.2C_another_penis_-_File:Vorhaut_eines_Penis.JPG!!
We could start a penis gap list, as an outreach to the black community.
I guess that's why they didn't bother asking about editors' race in the editor survey. You just look at the Commons penis gallery. It tells you all you need to know: there are no black folks on Wikimedia. (Except for Malik Shabazz (T-C-L-K-R-D) , and he isn't stupid enough to post his dick to Commons. And then there was Deeceevoice (T-C-L-K-R-D) , but she's female, and the white boys deleted everything she wrote.)
I think TonyTheTiger is black.
Anyway, only goes to show that the WMF is so concerned about getting female editors that they don't seem to care about all the missing black editors outside of the African Wikipedias. Or Hispanic editors outside of those Wikipedias, etc.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BlackNYer is black, as indicated by their name and demonstrated by their use of the word "yo". And clearly not a sockpuppet of David Shankbone.
The idea that everyone on WP who says they are black should be taken at their word, is very droll. Malik Shabbaz, despite his archetypically black name (look it up if you don't know who this historical name belonged to), is clearly a politically correct Jewish white boy doing a lot of projection. And my guess is that BlackNYer is, also. Big Kahuna, right. I'll bet he surfs in Hawaii in his spare time, and do many black people.
I always knew the Shabazz on Wiki was some Jewish person, but I always thought he named it after the New Black Panthers leader, not Malcolm X.
As for Antonio Vernon/TonyTheTiger, he's been in a lot of drama recently, so I'm just waiting for him to play the "racist" card. And he's actually http://tonythetiger.frih.net/072105%20AMRV%20topless%20in%20Nike%20Dobuk%20Bottoms%20reduced.JPG.
Posted by: Alison
QUOTE(melloden @ Sun 19th June 2011, 2:19pm)
As for Antonio Vernon/TonyTheTiger, he's been in a lot of drama recently, so I'm just waiting for him to play the "racist" card. And he's actually http://tonythetiger.frih.net/072105%20AMRV%20topless%20in%20Nike%20Dobuk%20Bottoms%20reduced.JPG.
Phew!! Has it suddenly got warm in here?
Posted by: SB_Johnny
QUOTE(melloden @ Sat 18th June 2011, 11:58pm)
Anyway, only goes to show that the WMF is so concerned about getting female editors that they don't seem to care about all the missing black editors outside of the African Wikipedias.
Are you implying that there's no women editing because there's not enough black schlongs around the place? Or schlongs of any color that don't happen to be attached to pasty-faced nerds?
Well, that would make sense, actually.
Posted by: Milton Roe
QUOTE(Alison @ Sun 19th June 2011, 2:45pm)
QUOTE(melloden @ Sun 19th June 2011, 2:19pm)
As for Antonio Vernon/TonyTheTiger, he's been in a lot of drama recently, so I'm just waiting for him to play the "racist" card. And he's actually http://tonythetiger.frih.net/072105%20AMRV%20topless%20in%20Nike%20Dobuk%20Bottoms%20reduced.JPG.
Phew!! Has it suddenly got warm in here?
Okay, crew: add Alison to the Booty Call List for this one.
But remember, for all we know, TonyTheTiger just got hold of that photo, and is really Baxter.
But I still doubt BlackNYer is black. Prove me wrong.
Posted by: Gary_Niger
QUOTE(Text @ Sat 26th February 2011, 6:03pm)
WARNING: NOT SAFE FOR WORK
http://r34.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=wikipedia
Now Jimbo can seriously complain
Someone on IRC PM'd me a link to a bunch of the Wikipe-tan creator's work about a week ago. The vast majority of the "work" contains/consists entirely of pornographic depictions of children. I don't give a shit either way, I am just pointing it out. I really wish that I had saved the link.