Mackan79 kicks SlimVirgin while down, When else, after all, are you going to kick someone? Options

[Piperdown]

Why is it that WP draws so many gamers (MMPORG) and drama queens?

i believe Crummy and Slimmy to be (most of the time, or at least at one time in the past) different people. I believe Crummy to be an older Canadian male (possibly living in NY per Word) based on his early edits.

i also know that GW=MM=TS=LE=EW, and believe per WB IP evidence, and Varkala Lull/Editing patterns per Luke/other (and on-WP behaviour) GW=SH.

this SV=Crum analysis, IMHO, is an excellent case for showing that SV <> Crum, and GW=as accused, in an objective way.

but jimmy's ringwraiths aren't objective, lol. even now, the eye of jimboraun is turning towards the W-R....take off the ring, Somey!

[Achromatic]

Oh dear. Apparently I am in disfavor.

Tony Sidaway claims that I am "lying" because I stated:

"You have stated that you have advised both SV and Mackan79 to avoid each other. However, you only saw fit to place such a warning of harassment on Mackan79's page. This appears neither objective nor impartial." (link)

Tony retorts that "Oh noes! Cabal! Off wiki sekrit lists!" in his remark stating that he advised SV "off-wiki". Completely manages to ignore, or fails to comprehend issue at hand, appearance of bias. (link)

I further clarify this, saying I have "no doubt" he was in communication with SV, but that to warn only one side of a dispute on their user page is "Not A Good Thing". (link)

Tony decides, ergo, that I am a liar (link), as, "if I knew that he'd have talked to SV, what's the problem". (link)

Someone agrees with me (link), so there's "Never mind the trolls, Tony, fight the good fight." Page is blanked, but alas, Tony isn't an admin, so he can't do a delete-restore. (link).

I suspect this will not receive any/a warm response, but we can but hope.

[No one of consequence]

Anybody else notice Viridae's

06:36, 13 March 2008 Viridae (Talk | contribs) unblocked Mackan79 (Talk | contribs) ‎ (Not a cockpuppet per http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...omb_sockpuppet)

???

I think he said "cockpuppet" on Mackan's talk page too. Must have been intentional :-D

I think it was an accident, there was a thread on one of the noticeboards where he asked if the block log could be purged by a developer to remove both the block and the unblock message.

[Milton Roe]

I think he said "cockpuppet" on Mackan's talk page too. Must have been intentional :-D

I think it was an accident, there was a thread on one of the noticeboards where he asked if the block log could be purged by a developer to remove both the block and the unblock message.

If unintentional it was nicely Freudian. And gives rise to a nice evolutionary term.

Cockpuppet: n. Variety of meatpuppet created by a sexual relationship and resulting sympatico, between editors. See WP:COCK.

Policy: Cockpuppets are discouraged unless they are poodles, in which case don't tell, and we won't ask. Husbands and wives, we don't want to know. Especially if one of you is from India. Try to keep your fraternizing off the 'pedia, folks. Like, get a room. And if you have a room, only one of you edit from it. Yuuuck, man.

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Mon 24th March 2008, 1:42am

[SenseMaker]

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

[wikiwhistle]

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

How would we know or prove it's sometimes her?

[jorge]

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

How would we know or prove it's sometimes her?

See my post here . I think at least on that occasion it was SV operating the two accounts. Presumably if she's done it once she's done it a lot more times since noone will challenge her on it what with her being in that special group of users protected by Mr. Wales..

[guy]

Put the information to our good friend Mr. Lar and see if he thinks that the evidence is good enough for a checkuser.

[Milton Roe]

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

How would we know or prove it's sometimes her?

You can't without IP confirm by Checkuser, and even then, that only shows the same computer. They're obviously close, and the easiest guess is that Crum is the Crummy husband of SV (who is virginal only psychologically not unlike Elizabeth I, as we've noted). Either that, or it's one of her poodles. Anyway, its a meat of some kind, and probably this meat is a little "off." Cause it smells JUST like a well-seasoned sock.

I wouldn't be surprised if Crum doesn't operate through an open proxy. Which itself is blockable on sight. (In fact, mentioning that, I'm amazed nobody ever brought it up in the Samiharris debate. They should have indef-blocked Sami for operating off an open proxy alone, and then gone home.)

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Thu 27th March 2008, 10:34pm

[Kato]

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

No evidence has ever indicated that Crum and Slim are anything other than two editors in close contact. On the contrary, all the evidence I have seen (and I've seen a lot) says to me that they are different people.

It is more accurate to say "everyone is aware that they are in close contact and operate as proxies for each other".

(To be honest, if I have to come down here and dispell this Slim=Crum meme again, I'll be cracking heads. Because I seem to have been doing it for an eternity.)

[wikiwhistle]

Don't they live in different States or something?

I wouldn't be surprised if Crum doesn't operate through an open proxy. Which itself is blockable on sight.

I don't think people using open proxies is currently blockable. It implies so in some places but not others:-

"Open or anonymising proxies may be blocked from editing for any period at any time. While this may affect legitimate users, they are not the intended targets and may freely use proxies until those are blocked."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Open_proxies

"When a Checkuser detects that an account has been using open proxies, this information may be considered when evaluating suspicions of sock puppetry or other editing abuses. If there is an appearance that an account has been using open proxies to circumvent policy, the account may be blocked."

Down to administrator judgement- i.e. whether the person's in favour or not probably

[jorge]

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

No evidence has ever indicated that Crum and Slim are anything other than two editors in close contact. On the contrary, all the evidence I have seen (and I've seen a lot) says to me that they are different people.

It is more accurate to say "everyone is aware that they are in close contact and operate as proxies for each other".

(To be honest, if I have to come down here and dispell this Slim=Crum meme again, I'll be cracking heads. Because I seem to have been doing it for an eternity.)

Kato, I don't think you can have really read my posts linked here - that sequence of edits is extremely unlikely to have occured were it by two separate people. They may not be the same user at all times, but that doesn't stop them sharing each others passwords and using each others accounts anytime they feel like it.

[Milton Roe]

Don't they live in different States or something?

I wouldn't be surprised if Crum doesn't operate through an open proxy. Which itself is blockable on sight.

I don't think people using open proxies is currently blockable. It implies so in some places but not others:-

"Open or anonymising proxies may be blocked from editing for any period at any time. While this may affect legitimate users, they are not the intended targets and may freely use proxies until those are blocked."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Open_proxies

"When a Checkuser detects that an account has been using open proxies, this information may be considered when evaluating suspicions of sock puppetry or other editing abuses. If there is an appearance that an account has been using open proxies to circumvent policy, the account may be blocked."

Down to administrator judgement- i.e. whether the person's in favour or not probably

Well, I was going by the language in WP:BLOCK, which is stronger:

"[[Wikipedia:Open proxies|Open or anonymous proxies]] are prohibited from editing by the [[foundation:About|Wikimedia Foundation]], and may be blocked on sight."

That says flatly that they are "prohibited" by the WMF. I don't know why it then says "may be blocked" rather than "should or must be" blocked, but if prohibited, what excuse is there for letting them operate, especially if they smell like abusive socks for somebody else, as Samiharris certainly did?

Now, an open proxy that might be used to edit articles on China or some country where anonymization of IPs is politically necessary to protect the user from violence by their fascist government, due to free speech problems, might be allowed to operate, perhaps. There is a defence for running such a thing in the US or Canada, or one which seems intent on editing US financial articles. Nobody claimed Samiharris might be a Chinese student who needed the open proxy for political reasons. A departing word from Sami was "send my pension check to Bagley". I don't think Bagley's that well-known in Beijing.

This post has been edited by Milton Roe: Thu 27th March 2008, 11:12pm

[cyofee]

Slim can edit from distinct IPs and not use proxies. A different internet connection for each account is all it takes. Even if she does get checkusered, she'll just say that Crum is her IRL friend.

[Robster]

Don't they live in different States or something?

Yes, but apparently they are believed to live in different locations in a similar way.

And as to the policy on proxies -- if that policy were actually in effect, at least one of Gary Weiss' socks would have been banned months ago. Guess it's another WP policy more honoured in the breach...

[Milton Roe]

Slim can edit from distinct IPs and not use proxies. A different internet connection for each account is all it takes. Even if she does get checkusered, she'll just say that Crum is her IRL friend.

Sure, but you can tell an open proxy from multiple site IPs, because the later only shows up as a few IPs, whereas an anonymizer proxy shows up as one IP address for each session. An ISP like AOL might use rotating addresses, but in that case, all the addresses resolve to AOL or the same ISP, whereas this doesn't happen with an anonymizer (they all resolve to IANA or something, that assigned the block to the anonymizer, without showing as an identifiable ISP).

[wikiwhistle]

Well, I was going by the language in WP:BLOCK, which is stronger:

"[[Wikipedia:Open proxies|Open or anonymous proxies]] are prohibited from editing by the [[foundation:About|Wikimedia Foundation]], and may be blocked on sight."

Above it there's a link to a page solely about the proxies. It's the IP adresses themselves that are prohibited, not their user (which would be impossible as they would just get a new IP the next moment if they wanted to.)


You have a point that there may be no grounds for using a proxy- the same is sometimes argued about sockpuppets, but they are tolerated on wiki if they're not disruptive (or the person concerned isn't in the admins' bad books.)

[tarantino]

Logged-in administrators are able to edit from any IP, even if it's hard-blocked.

Oh, and look, any user may now apply for IP block exemption.

Contributors who are not administrators can request IP blocking exemption from an administrator on a per user basis if they can show good cause for such an action. Such exemptions are granted exceptionally, to allow established users, and on exception, unestablished users at the discretion of the administrator to override IP blocks for beneficial editing purposes. Typical cirumstances when this may be appropriate are when a good-faith user has a need to edit via an anonymizing proxy such as Tor that is inaccessible to most users, or where it has been necessary to fully block an IP address or range to prevent abuse and this affects their access to Wikipedia.

[dogbiscuit]

Logged-in administrators are able to edit from any IP, even if it's hard-blocked.

Oh, and look, any user may now apply for IP block exemption.

Contributors who are not administrators can request IP blocking exemption from an administrator on a per user basis if they can show good cause for such an action. Such exemptions are granted exceptionally, to allow established users, and on exception, unestablished users at the discretion of the administrator to override IP blocks for beneficial editing purposes. Typical cirumstances when this may be appropriate are when a good-faith user has a need to edit via an anonymizing proxy such as Tor that is inaccessible to most users, or where it has been necessary to fully block an IP address or range to prevent abuse and this affects their access to Wikipedia.

Troll Alert! Troll Alert! We must block Tor, we must block Tor. Oh, bother, we've just blocked Slim and her socks. Ah, we need a new policy. How can we dress that up? I know, AGF works well for booting out trolls, we can use that test here. How small an exception is the exception to an exception for unestablished users?

[One]

Crum375 is SlimVirgin at least part of the time. Everyone is aware of this, but SlimVirgin is a difficult character to deal with, and thus we (or at least many of us) pretend to not recognize this obvious relationship.

This statement is discrediting, IMO. They tag team, they communicate, and they almost always agree. Everyone knows this, and it's hard if not impossible to determine when Crum's body is editing compared to SV's, but it seems very clear that two people are involved. (Different interests, writing styles, and the fact that Crum sleeps like an employed adult, while SV doesn't, Mac vs. PC, New York vs. Canada.)