BADSITES Goes Global, Meta-Wikimedia Spam Badlist Options Rating

[Jon Awbrey]

Members of the Review who are casting about for Wider Horizons of Social Concern than the question of how much lint they can excavate from Poetaster's multitude of mutant belly buttons might just cast a glance at the latest reincarnation of the BADSITES Gestapo, in the new, improved, global family size:

http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam Blacklist

PC conscientious type that I am, I personally regard the term "blacklist" as embodying a subtle form of no doubt unconscious culturally conditioned racism, so I prefer to use the term "badlist" instead.

Yes, we all know that there really is such a thing as SPAM, that is, "unsolicited, typically automated mass mailing or posting".

But Wikipediots, as we know, have a BADHABIT of stretching the scope of just about any pejorative term you might name to include any person or thing that any one of their Cabalcade deigns to disfavor for any reason or lack of reason whatever.

And when it's Guy Chapman doing the dishonors, well, every BADWORD in his WP Dicktionary means pretty much the same thing — "WAAAAAH, Guyie No Likie".

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[The Joy]

Didn't Raul654 put WR on the blacklist long ago?

I really don't see the problem with your userpage links, Jon. To me, if I were on Wikipedia, it would show that I was working with a competent person with knowledge and experience. I don't see you selling anything or trying to shamelessly promote yourself.

[Eva Destruction]

Didn't Raul654 put WR on the blacklist long ago?

I really don't see the problem with your userpage links, Jon. To me, if I were on Wikipedia, it would show that I was working with a competent person with knowledge and experience. I don't see you selling anything or trying to shamelessly promote yourself.

I've certainly added many, many links to WR in assorted discussions and have never had any trouble for doing so, as long as there's a legitimate reason for it.

[Jon Awbrey]

Didn't Raul654 put WR on the blacklist long ago?

I really don't see the problem with your userpage links, Jon. To me, if I were on Wikipedia, it would show that I was working with a competent person with knowledge and experience. I don't see you selling anything or trying to shamelessly promote yourself.

I guess we will see whether Meta.Wikimedia has any order of adult supervision, and whether they agree with you — in which case it's just the Usual Loose Cannon shooting off his Wiki-Peashooter one more time — or whether they will be badgered into submission to Guy Chapman's spontaneous generation of ad hoc policies to canonize whatever the devil he feels like doing to whom on a given day.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[Jon Awbrey]

Didn't Raul654 put WR on the blacklist long ago?

I really don't see the problem with your userpage links, Jon. To me, if I were on Wikipedia, it would show that I was working with a competent person with knowledge and experience. I don't see you selling anything or trying to shamelessly promote yourself.

I've certainly added many, many links to WR in assorted discussions and have never had any trouble for doing so, as long as there's a legitimate reason for it.

Lest we fade away into the background radiation of omnipresent if ever-pressing generalities … I am pressently trying to call AT-TEN-SHUN! to a few new wrinkles in the old theme of BADSITES Censorship.

• Wrinkle 1 is the fact that censorship has now gone global, with a force and on a scale never before imagined before the advent of Global Account Unified Logging (WMF:GAUL).
• Wrinkle 2 is that — We Are Talkin Bout User Pages Here, Folks! — pages that have by dint of long tradition accommodated WMF's hard-working slave, er, volunteer contributors with their individual carrels, cells, cubicles, or other sorts of office space, where people have so far been permitted a Full Reasonable Exercise (FRE) of FREEDOM in the choice of decorations, desk contents, framed and mounted butterfly collections, pet pixies, potted plants, wallpaper, wall posters, and other personal items.

There are other Wrinkles, but I haven't had coffee yet, and someone confiscated my desktop Mr. Java, so I have to go hunting for a vending machine somewhere.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[Random832]

I don't agree with the reaction to your userpages, but I think there is not really any connection to BADSITES.

This post has been edited by Random832:

[Jon Awbrey]

I don't agree with the reaction to your userpages, but I think there is not really any connection to BADSITES.

The connection is the type of mechanism that is being used to censor links, to wit, an automatic filter that globally blocks the use of a particular link on any WMF page. With the advent of Global Account Unfied Logging (WMF:GAUL), this means that we are talking about Global blocking with a capital G.

Since these are absolutely innocuous links that a user placed on his own User Page, not a bit out of line with the personal data that users all over WMF sites place on their user pages, not to mention the user pages of the very accusers here, all of this personal harassment is only a hair's breadth away from Global Blocking of user accounts — based on utterly trivial pretexts.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[thekohser]

I know all about BADSITES and Spam:

#Wikipedia Review..._Again

#Centiare.2FWikipedia Review_update

#User_Talk_pages

#Wikipedia Review.com_spam_articles

#Company_offering_vanity_articles_commercially.3F

Some of those are actually quite informative to read, and to see how off-base Wikipediots can be.

[Random832]

The connection is the type of mechanism that is being used to censor links, to wit, an automatic filter that globally blocks the use of a particular link on any WMF page.

This mechanism has never successfully been used in furtherance of a BADSITES-type agenda to my knowledge.

This post has been edited by Random832:

[Jon Awbrey]

The connection is the type of mechanism that is being used to censor links, to wit, an automatic filter that globally blocks the use of a particular link on any WMF page.

This mechanism has never successfully been used in furtherance of a BADSITES-type agenda to my knowledge.

Please read the material at the following locations so that we'll both know what I'm talking about before it's too late for everybody:

1. meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=User:Jon_Awbrey
2. meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Spam_blacklist#Jon_Awbrey_and_JonAwbrey

The News Item Of Interest here is that pejorative terms like Cross-Wiki Vandalism, Shameless Self-Promotion, Vanity Spam, and so on are being used — in defiance of the Normal Usage of those terms in the Real World — as shallow pretexts for harassing users in International Wiki-Waters.

Now I don't know for sure if url-filters have "successfully been used in futherance of a BADSITES-type agenda" — since I'm not completely positive what that agenda was in the first place — but if the agenda was to abuse, blockade, brow-beat, harass, harry, intimidate, stalk, and generally waylay WMF users who happened to get on the wrong side of Da Cabal at one time or another, then I would have to say that false arrest, false charges, false prosecution, falsified records, false testimony, false witness, falsely applied BADWORDS, and url-filters have quite "successfully been used in furtherance of a BADSITES-type agenda".

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[Jon Awbrey]

Gomi, HK, Somey, Calling All Mods —

Could you pretty please move this topic to the Meta-Discussion Forum so I can split off the Off-Topic parts and maybe fix the title so as not to give folks the BADIDEA?

Not sure why I try starting a topic of General Interest under General Discussion any more, but maybe I'll eventually learn not to do that.

Thanks Again,

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[thekohser]

The folks who try to police "self-promotional spam" on User pages are really too easy to PWND.

No mercy.

[The Joy]

Gomi, HK, Somey, Calling All Mods —

Could you pretty please move this topic to the Meta-Discussion Forum so I can split off the Off-Topic parts and maybe fix the title so as not to give folks the BADIDEA?

Not sure why I try starting a topic of General Interest under General Discussion any more, but maybe I'll eventually learn not to do that.

Thanks Again,

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Mod Note: Done. Sorry for the tardiness. -The Joy

[Random832]

[*]Wrinkle 1 is the fact that censorship has now gone global, with a force and on a scale never before imagined before the advent of Global Account Unified Logging (WMF:GAUL).

The SBL has existed for years; though I suppose it wasn't an issue until it affected you (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)

[*]Wrinkle 2 is that — We Are Talkin Bout User Pages Here, Folks! — pages that have by dint of long tradition accommodated WMF's hard-working slave, er, volunteer contributors with their individual carrels, cells, cubicles, or other sorts of office space, where people have so far been permitted a Full Reasonable Exercise (FRE) of FREEDOM in the choice of decorations, desk contents, framed and mounted butterfly collections, pet pixies, potted plants, wallpaper, wall posters, and other personal items.

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) You seem to have missed the userbox wars of 2006.

[thekohser]

Oh my God. Mike Lifeguard has got to be kidding, right?

[Jon Awbrey]

The folks who try to police "self-promotional spam" on User pages are really too easy to PWND.

No mercy.

Yes, that order of Self-Promotion is Genuwhinely Shameful — but you have to sympathize a little, as those guys, er, dudes have an Absolutely Horrendous BakLog of work to do fighting the good fight against Demon Vanity on WMF sites.

So here is what I think — we really ought to be good Meta*Citizens and help them out.

E-nouncing the formation of the End Self-Promation Now! (ESPN?) Task Force !!!

There's a little commented-out template at the top of that section for reporting userpage link abuse.

Here's my yeoman college try at removing the first straw from the camel's baklog:

meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Spam Badlist#JzG

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[thekohser]

I had a feeling Elonka might be a dude.

[Jon Awbrey]

Oh my God. Mike Lifeguard has got to be kidding, right?

Oh, I am sure that Lifeguard and Spacebirdy and all the rest are perfectly serious. They are never satsified with small hypocrisies but have go Whole Hog Hyper-Hypocrisy every time.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[Jon Awbrey]

Mike The Lifeguard Throws The Wiki-Book At Me!

Mike's "Justification" for Deleting My Entire User Page, and My Reply —

Please do not link so excessively on your userpage; you have been warned previously of this issue. — Mike.lifeguard 19:11, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

• Mike, the content that I placed on my User Page was a fairly standard sort of web vita, designed to serve as a self-introduction, and it is no way, shape, or form reasonable to describe it as "self-promotion", "SPAM", or "vanity spam" in any way that might constitute a Conflict Of Interest (COI) with the mission of this project. It is not very nice to use pejorative terms like that to describe a thoroughly innocuous and friendly introduction to a user's potentially relevant interests and background. And it is not a good thing to use those terms in ways that depart so far from their ordinary and technical usage, as this tends to give other people reading what you wrote the wrong idea.

• Now, I asked you before to show me the Terms of Service or Generally Acknowledged Community Standard that would prohibit the inclusion of such a self-introduction on my User Page, and you did not do so. Indeed, it is fairly clear from looking around WMF sites that there can be no such Standard, unless you use that to mean a "Rule" that just about everyone, including yourself, ignores. But it is hardly Fair to apply a "Rule" to selected individuals when the same "Rule" does not apply to everyone. JonAwbrey (talk) 03:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

[Jon Awbrey]

Because Some People Have So Much Trouble Reading Plain Anglish …

Mr. Lifeguard, given your acknowledgement that the material in question is not "SPAM", I think that further discussion on this so-called "spam blacklist" page is no longer relevant. So I would like to request, once again, that you remove the listing of my usual Internet names from this page. Thanks in advance, JonAwbrey 17:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[Rootology]

Jon, not to be dickish, but of these various projects with your userpages and various links...

How many are you actually active or working on?

[Jon Awbrey]

Jon, not to be dickish, but of these various projects with your userpages and various links …

How many are you actually active or working on?

Well, being dickish is someone else's job, of course, and I never mind responding to friendly, genuine interest in what I'm up to, but I think that we ought to be clear about a couple of potential misunderstandings before I respond to your inquiry.

First off, none of the folks that I've e-countered over there has the right check my passport as a prior condition for beginning to edit WMF pages. They quite explicitly and rather loudly give up that right in all of their global advertising and world-wide declarations of philosophy.

So, is everyone here on the same page about that?

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[Rootology]

Jon, not to be dickish, but of these various projects with your userpages and various links …

How many are you actually active or working on?

Well, being dickish is someone else's job, of course, and I never mind responding to friendly, genuine interest in what I'm up to, but I think that we ought to be clear about a couple of potential misunderstandings before I respond to your inquiry.

First off, none of the folks that I've e-countered over there has the right check my passport as a prior condition for beginning to edit WMF pages. They quite explicitly and rather loudly give up that right in all of their global advertising and world-wide declarations of philosophy.

So, is everyone here on the same page about that?

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Can you answer my question? I'd use this tool:

http://toolserver.org/~luxo/contributions/...ks=true&lang=en

But it appears down. Projects often remove user pages that are just the sole contributions of editors if they are promotional and that's their sole contributions. Just saying.

[Jon Awbrey]

Can you answer my question? I'd use this tool:

http://toolserver.org/~luxo/contributions/...ks=true&lang=en

But it appears down. Projects often remove user pages that are just the sole contributions of editors if they are promotional and that's their sole contributions. Just saying.

Just saying what?

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[Jon Awbrey]

Ready For Herbythyme, Am I Surely, Not …

• It may or may not be spam. To me it certainly is abuse of the facilities that are enjoyed by users provided by the Foundation. Your contributions to many projects are zero other than your overlinked user page. Herbythyme 18:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• Your statements are incorrect. Since you appear genuinely interested, I can give you a list of contributions to several projects that may not show up in your cursory scans. For instance, you are probably missing the contributions that come by way of interwiki translations of articles that I wrote for the English Wikipedia. These contributions are, in my humble opinion quite substantial. Indeed, it was in following the search engine traces of these translations that I was brought to many of those non-anglophone Wikipedias. JonAwbrey 18:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• As for the rest, surely you must have some sense of how silly it would sound to say that a person cannot be allowed to contribute unless he or she is already an established contributor? Surely? JonAwbrey 18:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[The Joy]

The different projects are supposed to be independent of one another. It should be up to the individual communities what is appropriate and what is not appropriate for user pages, not some Foundation steward.

Jon's links do not harm anyone or detract from any of the projects' goals. I don't understand why they are making a big deal out this unless:

A-) A bad reputation on the English Wikipedia means you are evil and cannot be allowed to work on other Foundation projects in peace.

B-) The stewards are just bullies throwing their weight around.

[Jon Awbrey]

The different projects are supposed to be independent of one another. It should be up to the individual communities what is appropriate and what is not appropriate for user pages, not some Foundation steward.

Jon's links do not harm anyone or detract from any of the projects' goals. I don't understand why they are making a big deal out this unless:

1. A bad reputation on the English Wikipedia means you are evil and cannot be allowed to work on other Foundation projects in peace.
2. The stewards are just bullies throwing their weight around.

ΩΔ! — Are you telling me those guys, er, dudes were Stewards!? I thought Stewards were supposed to be some kinda high-mucky-muck, super-mature and responsible and trusted managers, not just the usual gang of Global Underpass Squatters Terrorizing Electronic Pilgrims At Random (GUSTEPAR’s).

If that's really true, then things are far worse than even I could have imagined in my most paranoid nightmares — and that is saying a lot.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[The Joy]

Looking over Mike.lifeguard's user page, I don't think he's a steward. I figured he was because he wields a lot a power across multiple wikis. Sorry.

But that means he really shouldn't be messing around on other projects and enforcing rules that can only be done by the will of the individual communities.

But Spacebirdy is a steward.

[Jon Awbrey]

Looking over Mike.lifeguard's user page, I don't think he's a steward. I figured he was because he wields a lot a power across multiple wikis. Sorry.

But that means he really shouldn't be messing around on other projects and enforcing rules that can only be done by the will of the individual communities.

But Spacebirdy is a steward.

Loc Cit

A couple of other folks have showed up who look like they might be willing to think before shooting — yes, I know we've all been fooled so many times before, but hope springs e-φernal and all that — so maybe I'll try and see if we can get a genuine dialogue going.

I have to go get some other work done this week, but stay tuned …

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[Alison]

ΩΔ! — Are you telling me those guys, er, dudes were Stewards!? I thought Stewards were supposed to be some kinda high-mucky-muck, super-mature and responsible and trusted managers, not just the usual gang of Global Underpass Squatters Terrorizing Electronic Pilgrims At Random (GUSTEPAR’s).

If that's really true, then things are far worse than even I could have imagined in my most paranoid nightmares — and that is saying a lot.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Mike and Herby aren't stewards, they're Meta admins. Both of them kinda manage the global spamblock page. I don't know Mike all that well but can tell you that Herby's a pretty decent, honest kind of guy, IMO. He doesn't mess about.

[Jon Awbrey]

There's some kind of weird bot on the Meta Spam Badlist Page that keeps locking up both of the browsers that I normally use, so I had to suggest a change of venue for further proceedings. I don't know how that will go over.

At any rate, I will just store a copy of the discussions so far on this page, for future reference, in case something inadvertent happens.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

===Jon Awbrey and JonAwbrey===

{{usersummary|Jon Awbrey}}
{{UserSummary|JonAwbrey}}

• Creates userpages full of external links (and selfpromotion references?) on many wikis. [[User:Annabel|Annabel]] 19:08, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

====Discussion § 1====

• Inserting § break for the sake of my poor old browser. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 16:44, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• I placed the same vita on my user page that I use on all the sites where I contribute work and discuss ideas with other interested parties. This does not constitute SPAM (= "unsolicited mass-mailing or posting") in any technical or COI sense of the word. I would appreciate the two variants of my real name that I use on the Internet and Web not being listed on any kind of badlists. Thank you, [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 19:12, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

• While it may not be [[wikt:spam|spam]], it would seem to be abuse of WMF wikis & as such unwanted. While community members are given leeway with their userpages, such excessive linking is generally frowned upon. Furthermore, I very much doubt you understand all the languages you have posted this to, nor are you active in those wikis. I invite you to fix the problem before it is done for you. The history at enwiki will be of interest to others reviewing this. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike</b>]].[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">lifeguard</b>]]''' | ^{[[b:User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">@en.wb</span>]]} 19:36, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

• I would appreciate it if you could point to the relevant WMF Terms of Service, or even a generally accepted standard of etiquette that would justify your calling this user page vita an "Abuse". I am referring to the one now posted here at Meta, which is a copy of the one deleted by Annabel from my Nederlands User Page. By "generally accepted standard of etiquette" I mean one that you could honestly assure me is followed across the board on all WMF User Pages. In addition, I have never seen any notice of Wikipedias being "Encyclopedias that anyone who is fluent in the local language can edit" — but please let me know if I have missed such a restriction somewhere. [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 20:22, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

• You misunderstand me crucially. I do not say you need to be fluent in the languages where you contribute. To claim that would be hypocritical; I edit all WMF wikis. The issue is that:

&bull; You are not an established member of the community on any wiki where you have a userpage (so far as I can tell).<br>

&bull; Your userpage has an excessive amount of links (indeed, links form the only content, and they appear to be placed for self-promotional purposes). This would perhaps be an issue regardless of the above.
</blockquote></blockquote>

• [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike</b>]].[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">lifeguard</b>]]''' | ^{[[b:User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">@en.wb</span>]]} 20:31, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

• Correct me if I am wrong, but I do not think it is customary for newcomers to any of the many-tongued Wikipædiæ to be subjected to the ordeals of this type of entrance exam with regard to the legitimacy of their participation. However, By FYIing my real name, educational background, and ongoing intellectual interests, I have certainly done more than the avarage Anon IP on that score.

• Many people post pics on their user pages as a way of providing a friendly introduction to themselves, their current interests, and their personal histories. My old web vita harks back to a day when I was unsure about the propriety of copying pics, so I used links instead, over the years being forced to replace many of them with WayBak links. You can hardly dream that I am collecting revenue off archival links like that, can you?

• If and when you personally discover an interest in some of the Active Suggestions Concerning Intellectual Interchange that I enumerated in my web vita — which was my sole purpose in posting it to my NL User Page — then we may find more interesting things to talk about. In the mean time, I can hardly become an "established member of the community on any wiki", much less learn a few bits of the local colour and language, if some Admin deletes my self-introductory user page and blocks my account after the first few edits, now can I? [[User:Jon Awbrey|Jon Awbrey]] 23:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

• Jon, this same sort of Wikilawyering nonsense is what got you banned from enWP and booted from the mailing list. Obviously your rampant sockpuppetry and disruption ensures you remain banned on enWP. I would be the first to help you if you wanted [[:en:Category:Wikipedia_sockpuppets_of_Jon_Awbrey|your massive list of socks]] associated with some other name, to reduce the impact on you, but I don't see why we should help you to pretend that you are here to do anything other than the usual: self-promotion and idiosyncratic original research. [[User:JzG|JzG]] 20:50, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

• Still placing pages - en wq in the past few hours. Cheers --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b>^{<small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small>}</b> 08:00, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

• This is shameless self-promotion, and I would suggest that someone who has the necessary rights removes the pages from all projects on which he is not an active participant. [[User:JzG|JzG]] 11:44, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

• So, the following links are the ones being used for vanity spamming here:

<pre>
planetmath.org/encyclopedia/DifferentialPropositionalCalculus.html
www.wikipediareview.com/Directory:Jon_Awbrey
www.wikipediareview.com/User:Jon_Awbrey
www.wikipediareview.com/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
http://planetmath.org/?op=getuser&id=15246
knol.google.com/k/-/-/3fkwvf69kridz/1
mathforum.org/kb/accountView.jspa?userID=99854
www.mathweb.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
www.mathweb.org/wiki/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/?q=Awbrey
www.p2pfoundation.net/User:JonAwbrey
www.p2pfoundation.net/User_talk:JonAwbrey
altheim.4java.ca/ceryle/wiki/Wiki.jsp?page=JonAwbrey
forum.wolframscience.com/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=336
www.wikinfo.org/index.php/User:Jon_Awbrey
www.wikinfo.org/index.php/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
www.getwiki.net/-User:Jon_Awbrey
www.getwiki.net/-UserTalk:Jon_Awbrey
ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?JonAwbrey
semanticweb.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
semanticweb.org/wiki/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
wikipediareview.com/index.php?showuser=5619
wikipediareview.com/index.php?showuser=398
zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jon_Awbrey
zh.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jon_Awbrey
org.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/8/2/269
www.cspeirce.com/menu/library/aboutcsp/awbrey/integrat.htm
www.chss.montclair.edu/inquiry/fall95/awbrey.html
www.abccommunity.org/tmp-a.html
www2.oakland.edu/secs/dispprofile.asp?Fname=Fatma&Lname=Mili
www2.oakland.edu/secs/dispprofile.asp?Fname=Mohamed&Lname=Zohdy
www2.oakland.edu/oakland/ouportal/index.asp?site=87
www.msu.edu/dig/msumap/psychology.html
www.msu.edu/dig/msumap/beaumont.html
quod.lib.umich.edu/cgi/i/image/image-idx?id=S-BHL-X-BL001808%5DBL001808
www.uiuc.edu/navigation/buildings/altgeld.top.html
www.mth.msu.edu/images/wells_medium.jpg
www.msu.edu/dig/msumap/phillips.html
www.enolagaia.com/JMC.html
</pre>

====Discussion § 2====

• I would like to add a comment. As long as [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elonka_Dunin this page] edited by [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Elonka this user] multiple times on the English Wikipedia still exists, we look absolutely foolish trying to suppress a passive list of vitae links from a USER page, for heaven's sake. No surprise. Given the opportunity to choose two paths, Wikimedians will select the most backward, stupid-looking one. -- [[User:Thekohser|Thekohser]] 18:04, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

• To my knowledge, Elonka has not [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Elonka_Dunin&action=history edited] her article in a long time; this was a big issue in her several RfAs and she's been severely criticized for this before. If I'm wrong and there remains an ongoing issue with coi edits, let me know. Thanks, --<font face="Futura">[[User:A. B.|A. B.]] [[User talk:A. B.|^(talk)]] </font> 18:58, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

• Given the variety of links, and that several may well have legitimate uses, I'm going to remove the links. Pushing links is inappropriate regardless of the namespace. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | ^{[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]} 19:09, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

• Well, [http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jon_Awbrey&diff=prev&oldid=319658 I] was [http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=User:Jon_Awbrey&diff=next&oldid=319658 pointedly reverted] on English Wikiversity. I did attempt an explanation in irc, but that was equally-pointedly rebuffed. Relevant on-wiki discussion is on [http://en.wikibooks.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mike.lifeguard&oldid=1273349#Wikiversity_edit English Wikibooks]. Perhaps someone else would take that on. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | ^{[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]} 00:05, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• Comment: I see JonAwbrey has reverted quite a number of linkremovals on userpages. --[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] ^{[[User_Talk:Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">T</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">C</span>]]} (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 13:57, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• More userpages on enwikquote, eswiki, fiwiki, kowiki, ruwiki on top of the reverts. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | ^{[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]} 14:38, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• See also a discussion between Moulton and Jon Awbrey on [http://en.wikiversity.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jon_Awbrey&oldid=320343 Wikiversity], which seems to contain a threat. '''— [[User:Mike.lifeguard|<b style="color:#309;">Mike.lifeguard</b>]]''' | ^{[[User talk:Mike.lifeguard|<span style="color:#309;">talk</span>]]} 14:24, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• Mr. Lifeguard, given your acknowledgement that the material in question is not "SPAM", I think that further discussion on this so-called "spam blacklist" page is no longer relevant. So I would like to request, once again, that you remove the listing of my usual Internet names from this page. Thanks in advance, [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 17:03, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• It may or may not be spam. To me it certainly is abuse of the facilities that are enjoyed by users provided by the Foundation. Your contributions to many projects are zero other than your overlinked user page. --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b>^{<small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small>}</b> 18:02, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• Your statements are incorrect. Since you appear genuinely interested, I can give you a list of contributions to several projects that may not show up in your cursory scans. For instance, you are probably missing the contributions that come by way of interwiki translations of articles that I wrote for the English Wikipedia. These contributions are, in my humble opinion quite substantial. Indeed, it was in following the search engine traces of these translations that I was brought to many of those non-anglophone Wikipedias. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 18:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• As for the rest, surely you must have some sense of how silly it would sound to say that a person cannot be allowed to contribute unless he or she is already an established contributor? Surely? [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 18:26, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

• Fortunately you are entitled to your opinion & I to mine. Wikis are about collaborative working with consensus among folk - your view would seem at odds with some others and not to be particularly collaborative in their approach. Personally I'm inclined to consider blacklisting the links as I see the excessive linkage to be outside the scope of most projects.

• There is nothing silly about suggesting that someone whose only contribution to a project is a personal page which is out of scope is not effectively contributing. I delete many such pages most days. --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b>^{<small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small>}</b> 18:56, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

====Discussion § 3====

• The page you provide, with all the links, is IMHO mainly there as a linkfarm. It does not tell about you, what expertise you have, no, it only lists external links to your other identities. As such, it is more promotional (especially since all these pages will show up in e.g. Google searches ([http://www.google.com/search?rls=en&q=Jon+Awbrey&num=100&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 here]). If you translate things to English, then it is not needed to have a userpage on another language, that userpage is only useful if you actually contribute ''there''). As you create the same userpage with all such links everywhere, a single link to one single 'main' userpage would suffice, this serves no purpose and also I regard this as a misuse of facilities provided by the Foundation (except where local encourage such linking, which, if I see it correctly, is ''only'' true on Wikiversity). --[[User:Beetstra|Dirk Beetstra]] ^{[[User_Talk:Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">T</span>]] [[Special:Contributions/Beetstra|<span style="color:#0000FF;">C</span>]]} (en: [[:en:User:Beetstra|U]], [[:en:User talk:Beetstra|T]]) 09:37, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Thinking this through I think the idea that this user should be the sole determinant of both their user page content, and what is on this page, is plain wrong. If they insist on having these links on their user pages then I think it completely correct that this section remains here for the community to consider the position, & this may lead to blacklisting of the links. In passing I also note that they are now blocked on en wp having ''exhausted the community's patience''. I suggest that we may need to consider this view on other wikis too. Thanks --[[User:Herbythyme|<font color="green">Herby</font>]] <b>^{<small><span style="color:#90F">[[User talk:Herbythyme|talk thyme]]</span></small>}</b> 11:31, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Let's back up, slow down a bit, and let me see if I can figure out what the handful of people who are commenting on this page are really concerned about. If you want to move the discussion to my meta talk page that might be nice, as I keep getting warning messages from my browser about "non-responsive scripts" on this page that are really bogging down my ability to read and edit it. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 11:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• I think the problem is here, that the user made a linkpage in his usernamespace not only where he is active, but spread it on many wikis, I doubt anyone would have said anything if he had it on the 2 or 3 wikis he is active. But adding it to many wikis and doing that only there, sorry, is spam, not the links itselves, but the mass adding.

• I hope that clarifies the problem. I regret that the user got blocked on some wikis for that already, I believe he should just replace the userpage on the other wikis with a link to his main userpage, that would be sufficient if anyone really wants to look at his userpage and request unblock on the wikis where he got blocked.

• Best regards, --[[User:Spacebirdy|<font color="black">birdy</font> <font color="gray"><small>geimfyglið</small></font>]] [[User_talk:Spacebirdy|_{<font color="teal">(:> )=|</font>}]] 15:49, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• I will have to be doing some other work for a while. I am breaking this into sections for the sake of my browser and so I don't fall too far behind. I'm still not clear why anyone would refer to my standard self-introduction to a language-based or project-based wiki as a "self-promotion" in the COI sense of the word, much less a "linkfarm". I was led to most of those web sites because my name was already mentioned there in connection with some English Wikipedia article or other page that was refernced or translated there. As far as being a "link farm", I just don't get that at all. I refer people to sites and papers that I am currently working on, as do many other people in all of the wikis that I have seen. I was given to understand that WMF uses "no follow" tags, so no bots follows those links. As I have explained a couple of times before, I have used that same vita for many years as a standard self-introduction. Many people illustrate their user pages with MegaByte animations, graphics, and pics — I have always preferred to use simple links to pictures instead, partly for byteage and partly for copyright reasons. That's what the Web is for, remember? Many of these pages and pics are so old now that they can only be found in the WebArchive. I am certainly not getting any promotional considerations for any of them. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 19:24, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

• Please see the note on my [[User_talk:Jon Awbrey|talk page]]. Both my browsers keep jamming up on this page, so this will have to be my last posting here. [[User:JonAwbrey|JonAwbrey]] 00:04, 11 September 2008 (UTC)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[Jon Awbrey]

ΩΔ! — Are you telling me those guys, er, dudes were Stewards!? I thought Stewards were supposed to be some kinda high-mucky-muck, super-mature and responsible and trusted managers, not just the usual gang of Global Underpass Squatters Terrorizing Electronic Pilgrims At Random (GUSTEPAR’s).

If that's really true, then things are far worse than even I could have imagined in my most paranoid nightmares — and that is saying a lot.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Mike and Herby aren't stewards, they're Meta admins. Both of them kinda manage the global spamblock page. I don't know Mike all that well but can tell you that Herby's a pretty decent, honest kind of guy, IMO. He doesn't mess about.

Alison, Alison, Alison — This is all getting way 2EZ now.

Just to even up the odds and make it a little more interesting, I will clue you in on the game e-foot, which FYI you have my permission to share with your Sadder Budweisers back at the Stewards' Follies.

You really oughta clue them in that Jon Awbrey is a really devious dude, almost as devious as Daniel Brandt and most likely an even bigger e-tention ho — though I don't think NE1 wants to see the E-lympix in that event. Oh wait, I think we just did — DB and I are not even contenders. At any rate, it's more than likely than JA here is angling for a Big Phat Global Bloque, cause y'know, all he really cares about is getting juicy material for yet another bit of Wiki-Φeuilleton on The Wikipedia Revue.

Just a word to the wiseguise, if you cache my drift …

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[emesee]

it's too bad.

This post has been edited by emesee:

[Jon Awbrey]

it's too bad.

Yes, it is.

There are 2 other threads on this revolting development here and here.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jon Awbrey:

[EricBarbour]

Seems to me, WR could use a new subboard.

Call it "Corruption and Hypocrisy" or somesuch.

So that little dirty tricks like this Mike Lifeguard crap against Jon would be listed together. Otherwise it's spread out over the existing subboards, and difficult to find for cross-correlation. Which makes it easier for WP's worst admins to deny a factual basis for all the criticism heaped upon them....

WR is starting to have the same problem that WP has--it's getting large and unwieldy, being a flat database with no obvious detailed index.

(I am going to crosspost this message to the WR subboard...)

[Sylar]

I don't agree with the reaction to your userpages, but I think there is not really any connection to BADSITES.

The connection is the type of mechanism that is being used to censor links, to wit, an automatic filter that globally blocks the use of a particular link on any WMF page. With the advent of Global Account Unfied Logging (WMF:GAUL), this means that we are talking about Global blocking with a capital G.

Since these are absolutely innocuous links that a user placed on his own User Page, not a bit out of line with the personal data that users all over WMF sites place on their user pages, not to mention the user pages of the very accusers here, all of this personal harassment is only a hair's breadth away from Global Blocking of user accounts — based on utterly trivial pretexts.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

It's even worse now that they have updated it—now even a blacklisted URL encased in <nowiki></nowiki> or missing the "http://" in front is prevented from being posted.

[TheNewPhobia]

I think this could be useful for REALLY bad badsites, but......not all of enwiki's badsites.

[Random832]

It's even worse now that they have updated it—now even a blacklisted URL encased in <nowiki></nowiki> or missing the "http://" in front is prevented from being posted.

Wait - what? since when?

[Jon Awbrey]

A Bit of Necromancy for the Sake of Some Ghosts Who've Been Too Long in the Machine …

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[RDH(Ghost In The Machine)]

A Bit of Necromancy for the Sake of Some Ghosts Who've Been Too Long in the Machine …

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

Merci St. Jon the Obscure.
(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)