Group: Contributors
Posts: 7,919
Joined: Sat 17th Feb 2007, 12:55am
From: My name it means nothing. My age it means less. The country I come from is called the Mid-West.
Member No.: 981
QUOTE(Kato @ Wed 4th March 2009, 8:43pm)
QUOTE(gomi @ Thu 5th March 2009, 1:27am)
Most of that information -- the correct and incorrect, the scurrilous and humorous, the baiting and incisive -- is still here on WR for the searching. As we say over and over, such are the perils of an open forum. What has changed such that you are here now? The puppy that you fed grew into a big, mean dog and bit you. Little seems to have changed on Wikipedia. Much has changed here, but the criticism hasn't.
A lot of the material aimed at SlimVirgin from this site was way out of line, ridiculous on occasion, nasty on others.
A depressing by-product of that lunatic mud-slinging was that it suppressed credible criticism, and allowed the BADSITES brigade on Wikipedia to concoct a defence in support of ongoing abuse.
There's no doubt that this site has played host to completely unreasonable people, clearly unhinged types quick for revenge, that no one would like to cross.
I don't really like the "open forum" defense. Sure, it is important to have an arena free from Wikipedio influence. But sometimes you have to call a nutjob a nutjob. Thankfully, and eventually, the worst offenders have either left in a flurry of bile, or have been banned for their own safety.
Much of this is due to Wikipedians exporting disputes to this site. Initially this was tolerated on WR. In fact such activity seemed to be WR 's raison d'être. This site has grown much less tolerant of this use. Currently it is likely that posters who wish to continuosusly revisit the minutia of their conflicts are likely to encounter hostility unless this can be tied to some wider criticism or analysis.
Slim's grasp on reality can sometimes seem a little tenuous, and her memory selective and altered as if it's a wiki that's been edited and the inconvenient parts oversighted. However, when she's without admin powers or a powerful clique backing her up, she becomes rather harmless, bringing to mind an 1898 song, "She's More to be Pitied than Censured". (I wonder if FoxyTunes will have a meaningful link for that one?) But a little Googling actually found a YouTube video (gee, a music video from 1898?):
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Thu 5th March 2009, 2:05am)
QUOTE
As far as private mailing lists, let me ask you this...Did you ever send emails to a mailing list of editors which said something along the lines of, "Could someone please go revert so-and-so at (such-and-such) article? I've already used two reverts today."?
I have sent requests like that, though not for years. I don't recall sending one to a mailing list as such, though I may have done, but definitely not the cyberstalking list. Anything like that would have been before that period.
I believe you that you don't do it anymore, but you were doing it at one time. That's controlling content. Why was the content really so important to you that you were willing to cross that ethical line by secretly enlisting other editors to help you keep it controlled? Isn't that against what Wikipedia is supposed to be about?
Group: Members
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Member No.: 565
QUOTE(Kato @ Wed 4th March 2009, 5:58pm)
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Thu 5th March 2009, 1:51am)
QUOTE(gomi @ Thu 5th March 2009, 1:42am)
It was a serious criticism site then, as well, you were just less well-disposed to seeing WP and your own behaviour criticized. And if you think anything you were called then is worse than what you participated in versus Lar, or what people have said going after FT2, then your empathy bone is broken. Yes, posting pictures of enormously fat women and labeling them with your pseudonym was childish and not helpful, but it didn't, by itself, make WR other than a valid site for criticism. There is little being said now on this forum that wasn't also being said two years ago. You just didn't want to listen then.
I was accused of being a private investigator who had faked his own death. A teenage girl who had killed her mother. A woman who wanted to have sex with teenage boys. A Nazi pretending to be a Jew in order to compile lists of Jews on Wikipedia who would then be killed; that's why I wanted all the names in Lists of Jewish X to be well-sourced -- so I didn't kill any non-Jews by mistake! A poll was held about whether the Mossad might assassinate me when they found out about it.
Whoah steady on.
I don't remember any of that.
There's been some terrible threads, but no, nothing that fits the description of the above. And I had access to all the deleted threads as well.
Somey, confirm this?
We've been through this before, when Slim published similar accusations on Wikipedia. Most of them have been debunked, in the manner that they often contain some tiny grain of truth, but are taken completely out of context, are mis-interpretations, and are spun to make them sound much worse than they originally were. Classic SlimVirgin spin. When I have a moment, I'll publish a link to the original conversation.
Group: Contributors
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Joined: Wed 17th Dec 2008, 8:02am
Member No.: 9,433
QUOTE(gomi @ Thu 5th March 2009, 2:53am)
QUOTE(Kato @ Wed 4th March 2009, 5:58pm)
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Thu 5th March 2009, 1:51am)
QUOTE(gomi @ Thu 5th March 2009, 1:42am)
It was a serious criticism site then, as well, you were just less well-disposed to seeing WP and your own behaviour criticized. And if you think anything you were called then is worse than what you participated in versus Lar, or what people have said going after FT2, then your empathy bone is broken. Yes, posting pictures of enormously fat women and labeling them with your pseudonym was childish and not helpful, but it didn't, by itself, make WR other than a valid site for criticism. There is little being said now on this forum that wasn't also being said two years ago. You just didn't want to listen then.
I was accused of being a private investigator who had faked his own death. A teenage girl who had killed her mother. A woman who wanted to have sex with teenage boys. A Nazi pretending to be a Jew in order to compile lists of Jews on Wikipedia who would then be killed; that's why I wanted all the names in Lists of Jewish X to be well-sourced -- so I didn't kill any non-Jews by mistake! A poll was held about whether the Mossad might assassinate me when they found out about it.
Whoah steady on.
I don't remember any of that.
There's been some terrible threads, but no, nothing that fits the description of the above. And I had access to all the deleted threads as well.
Somey, confirm this?
We've been through this before, when Slim published similar accusations on Wikipedia. Most of them have been debunked, in the manner that they often contain some tiny grain of truth, but are taken completely out of context, are mis-interpretations, and are spun to make them sound much worse than they originally were. Classic SlimVirgin spin. When I have a moment, I'll publish a link to the original conversation.
All of the above was posted, and not just once or twice. I'm glad that a lot of it has been deleted, but the problem with deletion is that it allows some of you to claim it never existed. It very much did exist, much of it posted by BlissyU2, I believe with the encouragement of Poetguy. Though not all of it. Other stuff was posted by people who still post here, which is why I'd rather not get into detail. I'd prefer to let sleeping dogs lie.
For clarity, I asked Slim for a copy of the emails from WB that she has complained about. in addition to links to a filesharing site that were to contain evidence of MM's socking, there were 3 attachments that apparently reproduced what were in the files on that site. (the filesharing site has long since purged what was there).
It also uses javascript to launch a Shockwave movie, loads an image from businessjive.com and runs an activemeter javascript counter with a id of 7123. If one were to unzip it and view it in their browser the Businessjive webmaster and Activemeter account holder would know what browser and operating system you used, your IP address and the directory the html file was in when it was loaded. I'm not sure what else if anything the javascript and shockwave does as I don't know js or swf very well and I didn't actually load it.
weiss2.zip which was received last, is basically the same as mantan-lastex4.zip except the html file doesn't link to any diffs or load an image from businessjive.
This post has been edited by tarantino: Thu 5th March 2009, 3:24am
I had never before had occasion to use a pseudonym, and hope to never have to again.
And yet you use it now.
Don't look at me that way. You know where to find my name; I don't know where to find yours; it's that simple.
When you and wikiwhistle were attacking Lar I was half-tempted to characterize it as "two pseudonyms attacking a real name", but I figured it would be unproductive. You have buried it - the average person who wasn't previously clued in to this doesn't know who you are, nor whom to ask.
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Thu 5th March 2009, 2:59am)
All of the above was posted, and not just once or twice. I'm glad that a lot of it has been deleted, but the problem with deletion is that it allows some of you to claim it never existed.
It also allows you to claim it was much worse than it was - so everyone wins.
For clarity, I asked Slim for a copy of the emails from WB that she has complained about. in addition to links to a filesharing site that were to contain evidence of MM's socking, there were 3 attachments that apparently reproduced what were in the files on that site. (the filesharing site has long since purged what was there).
It also uses javascript to launch a Shockwave movie, loads an image from businessjive.com and runs an activemeter javascript counter with a id of 7123. If one were to unzip it and view it in their browser the Businessjive webmaster and Activemeter account holder would know what browser and operating system you used, your IP address and the directory the html file was in when it was loaded.
Not all web browsers report referers for local files, but IE does. It is exceedingly unlikely this is what he was after.
QUOTE
I'm not sure what else if anything the javascript and shockwave does as I don't know js or swf very well and I didn't actually load it.
The swf file does absolutely nothing except fail to load - it is not included in the zip and the html makes no provision for loading it from an external site. The javascript (apart from the activemeter bit at the end) appears to be there exclusively to support the swf; nothing malicious.
If one goes to http://businessjive.com, one will find a familiar-looking slideshow applet. I suspect the file was a failed attempt to save such a presentation. WordBomb?
Wikipedia Management publishes what they believe to be people's IP Numbers to the World — right or wrong, it does not matter to them — any damn time they feel like it.
Will some sane person please explain to me why any of us should give a rat's ass about this gawdawful bitchin and moanin of HFO, compared to that?
Thanks for the corrections, Random832. I've seen referers that are were in the form of C:\directory\file but didn't know that was mostly limited to IE.
Group: Moderators
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Joined: Sat 17th Jun 2006, 7:47pm
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275
Oh dear, I was afraid this would happen...
We've been over this before, as Gomi has pointed out - I did do some research into this stuff, and it turned out that Blissy was the source of most of it. Unfortunately, Blissy has chosen to say some fairly ludicrous things about me, too, so to point all this out will probably look vindictive, to him at least. Nevertheless...
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Wed 4th March 2009, 7:51pm)
I was accused of being a private investigator who had faked his own death.
Blissy claimed that SlimVirgin might be an Australian dude named "Joe Vialls," who was, in fact, dead. But Blissy was so enamored of this theory that he suggested Vialls might have faked his own death, presumably in order to become a Wikipedia admin. (And really, who wouldn't?) When challenged, Blissy wrote, "He claims to be dead, but there's no proof of it. Indeed, there is no proof that he lived either. Just his internet conspiracy theories."
QUOTE
...A teenage girl who had killed her mother...
Blissy also suggested that SV might be Rachelle Waterman, who had apparently been released into the custody of her father after being found Not Guilty of killing her mother. (Evidently, the mother's death was not the result of an editing dispute.) He quickly back-tracked on this suggestion, claiming he wasn't serious about it, and in any event the thread was tarpitted fairly quickly.
QUOTE
A woman who wanted to have sex with teenage boys.
Early teens, or late teens? If it's late teens, this isn't actually all that unusual, much less illegal. Anyway, I don't remember that one and I can't find it in any of the deleted threads, though like you say, that doesn't mean it never existed.
QUOTE
...A Nazi pretending to be a Jew in order to compile lists of Jews on Wikipedia who would then be killed; that's why I wanted all the names in Lists of Jewish X to be well-sourced -- so I didn't kill any non-Jews by mistake!
That was Blissy again, but this is really the crux of the matter: In 2006, Blissy apparently went through a period of several weeks, even months, in which he felt that SV "might be a neo-Nazi" because of her actions regarding the various Lists of Jews. This, of course, is the issue that brought us the whole Poetguy business, since Poetguy was of the opinion that as many prominent Jews as possible should be listed on Wikipedia as a point of ethno-religious pride, and allegedly wasn't anywhere near as picky about sources as SV and Jayjg were. SV, and quite rightly I might add, was concerned that people from Stormfront would use the lists to target Jews who were on them. The issue became so heated that Blissy posted the unfortunate speculation in question, among others - most of this is contained in the infamous Topic 1135, "The SlimVirgin Thread" (requires registration to view, and a bit more on top of that, actually). I couldn't find a post about her not wanting to "kill non-Jews by mistake" in any of the (now-deleted) threads in question, but that's hardly exculpatory of those who made the various accusations.
I think it could legitimately be said that Poetguy was egging Blissy on during this period, but to my knowledge, none of the Poetguy accounts publicly agreed with Blissy about the more scurrilous of these allegations, particularly the neo-Nazi and anti-semitic one(s). For the most part, at least in my opinion, Poetguy generally came off as a "voice of reason" in these discussions (along with Everyking, Ashibaka, and what few other pro-WP members we had at the time), though he did participate in them and it might obviously have been better if he hadn't. Alas, Poetguy later gained the necessary access rights to remove any and all evidence of "egging on," assuming it actually did occur - and while I still don't believe he did that, I can't rule it out.
It should also be pointed out that Poetguy was attempting to maintain an article about himself (and his brother, no less) on Wikipedia pretty much the whole time, and it's possible that both he and his brother were also on the List of British Jews at some point, or that an attempt was made to add them. (I'll have to check that.)
QUOTE
A poll was held about whether the Mossad might assassinate me when they found out about it.
The actual poll, also started by Blissy, contained three questions: 1: "Is Slim Virgin Jewish?" 2: "Do Slim Virgin's actions on Wikipedia help or hurt the Jewish community?" 3: "Is Slim Virgin an anti-semite/neo nazi or otherwise deliberately hurting the Jewish community?" The fact that this poll was allowed to last for almost 24 hours before being deleted is a good example of WR's problems during those days - the site had too few active moderators, Blissy was still quite clearly the domain owner and was afforded special deference because of it, and of course, nobody liked SlimVirgin.
The actual comment about the Mossad, however, was posted by ex-member Sgrayban, who was only the second member to suggest that the poll be deleted (another ex-member, Donny, was the first). Sgrayban was no fan of SV - indeed, he was one of her most virulent detractors. In this case, his exact words were, "I wouldn't doubt it if the MOSSAD would take her out for it," but this was in reference to the point that if SlimVirgin were an Israeli citizen and a neo-Nazi and a high-ranking WP admin, the helpful folks at the Mossad would be none too happy about it - in other words, a reasonable, if not true, statement. Anyhoo, this was not the subject of the poll, but rather an attempt to get Blissy to stop posting insane shit without hurting his (Blissy's) feelings excessively, since he was, after all, the domain owner and could have shut down the site at any time.
Now, I don't want to appear to defend Blissy - Heaven knows he doesn't deserve it from me at this point - but we all have to remember something very important: As the domain owner, Blissy didn't appreciate, at all, being accused of operating a "neo-Nazi hate site" by various Wikipedians, including SlimVirgin, though Raul654 was probably the most egregious offender in this regard. They made these accusations because WR's precursor site was, evidently, run by a man named Igor Alexander who apparently was an anti-semite, and possibly a neo-Nazi. The warm-'n'-fuzzy WR you're reading now is actually a split from that site (hosted by ProBoards) by people who (with maybe one or two exceptions) were not in any way anti-semitic, and wanted to distance themselves from that sort of thing as much as possible. When the aforementioned Wikipedians insisted on repeating the idea that WR was "founded by a neo-Nazi," they only helped to escalate the conflicts that existed at that time. It's obvious that this was both frustrating and anger-inducing, for Blissy in particular, because he was the domain owner. Also for Selina, who was (and still is, to this day) in charge of the whole thing.
QUOTE
And that's not even to get into the hurtful and creepy stuff.
Um, now there I would have to disagree - that actually does cover most of the hurtful/creepy stuff, though admittedly there might have been a few things that got deleted right off the bat, which I may or may not have even seen.
QUOTE
I really don't want to say any more about it. Suffice to say, this site has changed.
Most of the people participating in those threads have left or been banned by now. Even Daniel Brandt doesn't participate here much anymore... Selina, Herschel, and I are obviously still here, as is Saltimbanco on occasion. But Blissy, the Poetguy accounts, Sgrayban, Donny, Hushthis/Joey, Joel Leyden, Jorge, Lir, and Blu Aardvark are all gone. (And to be fair to the last two, they didn't involve themselves much in those threads.)
QUOTE(Hell Freezes Over @ Wed 4th March 2009, 8:59pm)
Other stuff was posted by people who still post here, which is why I'd rather not get into detail. I'd prefer to let sleeping dogs lie.
Probably for the best!
One last thing: There was another claim made by SV as recently as last year, to the effect that WR members had accused her of "sleeping with people to get jobs." This presumably referred to a post made by Yours Truly, and in my defense, I didn't really make that accusation, at least not directly. Rather, I pointed out that a young female college student, placed in the midst of a large media pool-coverage site (in this case, Lockerbie, Scotland) that would have certainly been dominated by men, could have easily become the center of attention for those men - possibly to the point where promises of hiring her might have been made as a "come-on." I realize that this was an inappropriate and hurtful suggestion under the circumstances, and FWIW I apologize for it - but regardless, I've been personally involved in such media pools myself (also during the 80's), and I know first-hand that this is exactly what goes on, and that the suggestion I actually did make wasn't the least bit implausible.
AntiSocial Media, Slideshow Presentation by Judd Bagley
Thu 5th March 2009, 2:20am
