FORUM WARNING [2] Division by zero (Line: 2933 of /srcsgcaop/boardclass.php)
Letter to UK Charity Commission -
     
 
The Wikipedia Review: A forum for discussion and criticism of Wikipedia
Wikipedia Review Op-Ed Pages

Welcome, Guest! ( Log In | Register )

> General Discussion? What's that all about?

This subforum is for general discussion of Wikipedia and other Wikimedia projects. For a glossary of terms frequently used in such discussions, please refer to Wikipedia:Glossary. For a glossary of musical terms, see here. Other useful links:

Akahele.orgWikipedia-WatchWikitruthWP:ANWikiEN-L/Foundation-L (mailing lists) • Citizendium forums

> Letter to UK Charity Commission, Is this a big enough stick? I hope so.
Peter Damian
post
Post #1


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined:
Member No.: 4,212



I think I have found a lever at long last. The clue is in the long time it took for Wikimedia UK to get recognised as a charity. As Ashley van H says here http://bambuser.com/channel/pigsonthewing/broadcast/2140981 "it was quite a big story [i.e. charitable status] for the U.K - the charity commission struggled for a long period, and has had to refine their understanding of a public utility". What does he mean? Well it goes back to 2009, when the Charity Commission ruled that "The production of an encyclopaedia is not the charitable advancement of education and has not been accepted as such in law... If the object [should] be the mere increase of knowledge it is not in itself a charitable object unless it is combined with teaching or education," http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/27/wi...ia_charity_not/ (register article)

So kudos to Jonathan Burchfield, partner at the law firm Stone King (specialists in Charity and Education Law, for reversing this decision:

QUOTE
In accepting Stone King’s application on behalf of Wikimedia UK, the Commission has been at pains to point out that the publication of information useful to the public and the promotion of open content are not inherently charitable activities. Any similar organisation seeking to become registered with the Charity Commission would need to demonstrate that its activities are exclusively for the public benefit and that the content promoted has sufficient editorial controls and safeguards on the accuracy and objectivity of the information provided. In Wikipedia’s case, for example, the continuous development and operation of editing policies and content security tools assure an increasingly high quality of content.”
http://www.stoneking.co.uk/news/articles/-/page/1244 (Stone King press release)


QUOTE

“Burchfield said that in order to be registered, Wikimedia UK had to demonstrate that it had high standards for controlling and monitoring the content of Wikipedia so that it was not easily open to abuse.”
http://www.thirdsector.co.uk/news/1102747/ (Third Sector)


This is really really really important. Wikimedia's lawyers had to argue that Wikimedia can operate under the heading "object of general public utility" as proposed by Samuel Romilly in the 19th century. There is a (somewhat long and difficult) legal judgment here http://www.btinternet.com/~akme/shaw.html which illustrates the principle involved. According to the Romilly principle, benefit has to be conferred on the public by the proposed ends of the charity. Political purposes are not OK, nor the furtherance of a movement such as 'the Wikimedia movement'. Some identifiable section of the community must derive a real benefit from the purpose. More details from the Charity Commission website http://www.charitycommission.gov.uk/Librar...e/lawpb1208.pdf .

It was under a generous interpretation of the Romilly principle that WMUK was recognised. This was clearly why there was a requirement that "the content promoted has sufficient editorial controls and safeguards on the accuracy and objectivity of the information provided. "

I am now preparing an appeal to the UK Charities Commission, giving clear evidence of all the points in which WMUK demonstrably fails to meet the requirement for general public benefit, either because it lacks 'sufficient editorial controls', or for other reasons such as simply not benefiting the general public.

Any suggestions welcome. I am particularly interested in recent cases where Wikipedia has failed to provide appropriate control or oversight. I can think of a few, such as the Philip Mould case http://ocham.blogspot.com/2011/05/wikipedi...in-fiction.html, where a gross slur remained on the site for a year and a half. What are appropriate controls for this sort of thing? Is anonymous editing an insufficient? I think so. Is making the WMUK board collectively responsible for the content of BLPs a minimum condition for good control? I think so too. Please let me have your suggestions

A thing that already puzzles me is that if WMUK must 'control and monitor' the content, the following statement from its website seems inconsistent with that.

QUOTE

Please note that we are a separate organization from the Wikimedia Foundation, and have no control over Wikipedia or any other Wikimedia Foundation projects.” http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page

Indeed, the whole principle on which Wikipedia was founded was that there should be no editorial oversight in the traditional sense, and that all content would be the result of a ruthless Darwinian fight for survival. That in itself makes it impossible for WMUK to 'control and monitor' content.

This post has been edited by Peter Damian:
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

Posts in this topic
Peter Damian   Letter to UK Charity Commission  
EricBarbour   This is really really really important. Wikimedia...  
Daniel Brandt   --evidence of WP defamation (Daniel Brandt, conse...  
SB_Johnny   [quote name='EricBarbour' post='289114' date='Tue...  
gomi   [Modnote: I removed (to the Tar Pit) some posts th...  
EricBarbour   For some extra "oomph", you could print ...  
UseOnceAndDestroy   Wikipedia has no controls, because it does not kno...  
Peter Damian   David r from meth productions https://secure.wikim...  
Peter Damian   I think the charity commission might be interested...  
EricBarbour   Perhaps the chair of the Charity Commission should...  
Michaeldsuarez   Perhaps the chair of the Charity Commission shoul...  
EricBarbour   In fact, people have been inserting defamatory rem...  
dogbiscuit   Some good specific examples, though I'd guess ...  
Cla68   If I remember right, there was an article on a Bri...  
timbo   Narcs suck. t  
Kelly Martin   It's interesting how WMUK abjectedly lied in i...  
SB_Johnny   It's interesting how WMUK abjectedly lied in ...  
dogbiscuit   It's interesting how WMUK abjectedly lied in ...  
Peter Damian   The exact wording of the application would be hel...  
timbo   WHACK WHACK WHACK!!! Beat that st...  
Peter Damian   How about this: "The Nazis murdered millions...  
timbo   How about this: "The Nazis murdered million...  
Peter Damian   Actually, it's a ludicrous and insane analogy...  
SB_Johnny   you're too smart for that. As opposed to you....  
Kelly Martin   It does occur to me that Jimmy's relocation to...  
RMHED   The listing as it appears on the Commissions websi...  
carbuncle   The listing as it appears on the Commissions [url...  
RMHED   [quote name='RMHED' post='289296' date='Thu 24th ...  
Detective   The listing as it appears on the Commissions webs...  
RMHED   The listing as it appears on the Commissions [ur...  
dogbiscuit   The fact that the charity trustees are employing p...  
dogbiscuit   "Verifiability not truth" could be anoth...  
Cla68   That would be just outstanding if WR could get the...  
Peter Damian   I have discussed with Mike Peel and it turns out t...  
Daniel Brandt   If you have an occasion to mention John Seigenthal...  
Peter Damian   If you have an occasion to mention John Seigentha...  
Kelly Martin   There is an article in the press about once a mont...  
Peter Damian   Here is a transcription of the Fanning interview. ...  
thekohser   The "obscure" article about John Seigent...  
Peter Damian   Thankfully, it appears that Wikipedia does have hi...  
dogbiscuit   Thankfully, it appears that Wikipedia does have h...  
lilburne   Perhaps they explained all about 'pending chan...  
EricBarbour   Perhaps they explained all about 'pending cha...  
lilburne   [quote name='lilburne' post='289627' date='Sun 27...  
dogbiscuit   RE: Letter to UK Charity Commission  
Peter Damian   However, WMUK says the Charity Commission has ...  
Peter Damian   I had some comments from HJ Mitchell ( http://en.w...  
Eppur si muove   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my ...  
Kelly Martin   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my...  
thekohser   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my ...  
Detective   He says “no BLP dispute (to the best of my ...  
Daniel Brandt   [quote name='Peter Damian' post='289879' date='We...  
lilburne   Of concern would be people from WMFUK interacting ...  
carbuncle   I wasn't trying to stay out of this, but the c...  
Cla68   Another example you might could use to show that t...  
Eppur si muove   Another example you might could use to show that ...  
Peter Damian   Another example you might could use to show that ...  
SB_Johnny   [quote name='Cla68' post='290005' date='Fri 2nd D...  
Peter Damian   I have the usual problem of making sense of this l...  
Peter Damian   Meanwhile I am struggling here http://uk.wikimedia...  
Cla68   Meanwhile I am struggling here http://uk.wikimedi...  
Peter Damian   Did you also try asking the CC? The government a...  
lonza leggiera   I think I have found a lever at long last. The c...  
Peter Damian   [...] Thanks for the long commentary but the fa...  
Peter Damian   The stonewalling continues http://uk.wikimedia.org...  
dogbiscuit   Locally, I've had an interesting update. At th...  
GlassBeadGame   Failure to act upon fraud or theft is a very diffe...  
Peter Damian   Failure to act upon fraud or theft is a very diff...  
GlassBeadGame   You understand UK procedures, yes? That would ...  
Malleus   Failure to act upon fraud or theft is a very diff...  
thekohser   GBG came back. To criticize a leading member of W...  
EricBarbour   Where were we? Oh yeah, here. This does not look ...  
GlassBeadGame   Where were we? Oh yeah, here. This does not look...  
thekohser   ... a very common Wikipedian [b][color=#FF0000]ta...  
Peter Damian   Where were we? Oh yeah, here. This does not look...  
EricBarbour   Why not? I am getting nowhere, so I am going to ...  
Peter Damian   I'll try tomorrow. Probably a waste of effort...  
GlassBeadGame   Why not? I am getting nowhere, so I am going to...  
Peter Damian   A FOI should have been have been the starting poi...  
GlassBeadGame   A FOI should have been have been the starting po...  
dogbiscuit   Why not? I am getting nowhere, so I am going t...  
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='291076' date='S...  
Tarc   Sycophantic blabber. Would you care to tell us ex...  
Cla68   Sycophantic blabber. Would you care to tell us e...  
thekohser   Sycophantic blabber. GlassBeadGame... now on my ...  
Zoloft   Sycophantic blabber. GlassBeadGame... now on my...  
GlassBeadGame   Events will tell, providing pressure is kept on Pe...  
EricBarbour   Events will tell, providing pressure is kept on P...  
GlassBeadGame   Piss off, if you're not going to offer to he...  
SB_Johnny   Just when exactly did you and Petey become the bos...  
dogbiscuit   Piss off, if you're not going to offer to h...  
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='291104' date='S...  
Emperor   :popcorn: at seeing all of GBG's former asskis...  
TungstenCarbide   Yaaaawn... On this note I'd like to point ...  
dogbiscuit   :popcorn: at seeing all of GBG's former asski...  
EricBarbour   The fact that this thread has five pages and Wikim...  
Emperor   I just dropped it in the mailbox. Very good...  
dogbiscuit   Only a couple of days late... I've skimmed t...  
thekohser   What is "Wiki UK"? Is that the officia...  
GlassBeadGame   What is "Wiki UK"? Is that the offici...  
lonza leggiera   What is "[b]Wiki UK"? Is that the off...  
dogbiscuit   Greg, it is all superficial and to be fair to the ...  
thekohser   Greg, it is all superficial and to be fair to the...  
dogbiscuit   Greg, it is all superficial and to be fair to th...  
dogbiscuit   Re-reading Peter's very first post here, it is...  
Fusion   Sorry if this point has already been made, but is...  
Cla68   Sorry if this point has already been made, but i...  
dogbiscuit   Sorry if this point has already been made, but ...  
GlassBeadGame   Let me restate my view that this matter is an inte...  
dogbiscuit   Let me restate my view that this matter is an int...  
thekohser   In addition to what Dogbiscuit so eloquently phras...  
GlassBeadGame   In addition to what Dogbiscuit so eloquently phra...  
Malleus   In addition to what Dogbiscuit so eloquently phr...  
thekohser   [quote name='GlassBeadGame' post='291181' date='T...  
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='Malleus' post='291184' date='Tue 20t...  
lonza leggiera   In addition to what Dogbiscuit so eloquently phra...  
thekohser   Surely what Dr Buckner meant to say must have bee...  
GlassBeadGame   [quote name='lonza leggiera' post='291233' date='...  
EricBarbour   Of all the UKCC's declared responsibilities, t...  
GlassBeadGame   Of all the UKCC's declared responsibilities, ...  
GlassBeadGame   I remember some time ago reading an article maybe ...  
dogbiscuit   DB: Are you saying this public utility stuff was ...  
Ottava   Anyone notice that Fae has been on a one man crusa...  
Retrospect   Anyone notice that Fae has been on a one man crus...  
SB_Johnny   [quote name='Ottava' post='291286' date='Thu 22nd...  
Ottava   [quote name='Ottava' post='291286' date='Thu 22n...  
lilburne   Commons is an irrelevance. As I understand it, t...  
dogbiscuit   Commons is an irrelevance. As I understand it, t...  
Peter Damian   I have now restricted myself to answering the rela...  
Peter Damian   A further question also removed http://uk.wikimedi...  
dogbiscuit   A further question also removed http://uk.wikimed...  
thekohser   My tax money is now going to help your crappy pro...  
dogbiscuit   My tax money is now going to help your crappy pr...  
Peter Damian   [quote name='thekohser' post='291734' date='Tue 2...  
Peter Damian   And the whole discussion now deleted from the orig...  
Peter Damian   I did not say precisely that, but who cares. Blo...  
Peter Damian   And now I am blocked  
lilburne   And now I am blocked They can't block yo...  
Peter Damian   Claims by wikipedians that they clean the site up...  
thekohser   And now I am blocked Such allegations, thoug...  
Peter Damian   [quote name='Peter Damian' post='291771' date='Tu...  
lonza leggiera   (viz. the examiner): ... the Wikimedia UK non-...  
thekohser   [quote name='lonza leggiera' post='291846' date='W...  
thekohser   Such allegations, though, [url=http://www.examine...  
TungstenCarbide   And now I am blocked wow, just exactly how stupi...  
EricBarbour   And now I am blocked Don't forget to save co...  
Cla68   And now I am blocked wow, just exactly how stup...  
lilburne   Cirt added the categories. Iridescent was in there...  
Peter Damian   Ah, the wonder of the Internets.  
GlassBeadGame   By obsessing with on-wiki communication and blocks...  
Peter Damian   By obsessing with on-wiki communication and block...  
thekohser   I think the polite thing is to let Mr. Keating kno...  
thekohser   I think the polite thing is to [url=http://uk.wik...  
thekohser   Well, would ya look at that... Google News felt t...  
thekohser   Hey, Ed -- you're on the agenda now.  
Peter Damian   See below. What is 'taking so much time' i...  
Peter Damian   Right. Keep on asking the same question again a...  
dogbiscuit   Right. Keep on asking the same question again ...  
lilburne   Why was it so hard to answer that question, whic...  
thekohser   [quote name='dogbiscuit' post='291888' date='Wed ...  
dogbiscuit   I've added a comment on their action pages. Ac...  
Peter Damian   I'm very irritated by this. What harassment? ...  
No one of consequence   I'm very irritated by this. What harassment?...  
Peter Damian   I'm very irritated by this. What harassment...  
No one of consequence   That's all very well as a joke, but they make...  
No one of consequence   Either Chase Me thinks so, or people he thinks he...  
thekohser   It kind of reminds me of an incident in which a r...  
No one of consequence   Are you suggesting that Peter Damian might be on ...  
lilburne   That's all very well as a joke, but they mak...  
GlassBeadGame   I'm very irritated by this. What harassment?...  
RMHED   I'm very irritated by this. What harassment?...  
SB_Johnny   You can attend any of the meetups as they all app...  
Eppur si muove   Thomas Dalton, not a board member any more, has su...  
lilburne   Thomas Dalton, not a board member any more, has s...  
thekohser   Hey Thomas (I know one of you monkeys will be wat...  
lilburne   Hey Thomas (I know one of you monkeys will be wa...  
Peter Damian   Actively being discussed on Wiki-uk. Discussion a...  
Fusion   If he was incorrectly outed, that means that he w...  
dogbiscuit   The bizarre thing is that as board members of a ...  
Peter Damian   Although I understand your point, the problem bei...  
carbuncle   Incidentally the supposed 'outing' of Fae...  
dogbiscuit   The bizarre thing is that as board members of a li...  
Kevin   So does this make the first time that a person has...  
dogbiscuit   So does this make the first time that a person ha...  
Kelly Martin   So does this make the first time that a person ha...  
Peter Damian   [quote name='Kevin' post='293267' date='Tue 10th ...  
lilburne   I should probably consult a solicitor. Note the ...  
Kelly Martin   That’s what the word means, and thatâ€...  
SB_Johnny   That’s what the word means, and thatâ€...  
dogbiscuit   [quote name='Kevin' post='293267' date='Tue 10th...  
lonza leggiera   ... I should probably consult a solicitor. ...  
thekohser   So does this make the first time that a person ha...  
dogbiscuit   One of the most ironic things is that there is the...  
carbuncle   One of the most ironic things is that there is th...  
SB_Johnny   The part I find most confusing is where Chase Me ...  
lilburne   There are a large number of kooks and loons on the...  
Peter Damian   One of the most ironic things is that there is th...  
dogbiscuit   Another little thought: the post says "we do ...  
Kelly Martin   "We feel we can guarantee the anonymity of ou...  
carbuncle   "We feel we can guarantee the anonymity of o...  
Peter Damian   Charles Matthews talks a bit of sense  
thekohser   Michael West also sums it up quite brilliantly:  
Peter Damian   And again: Michael West is someone, no? Just r...  
GlassBeadGame   And again: Michael West is someone, no? How ...  
DanMurphy   I can't wait to clear decks at the day job and...  
SB_Johnny   I won't even have to use adjectives!Well o...  
Peter Damian   response from the actual appeal to the CC? As ...  
RMHED   WereSpielChequers AKA Jonathan Cardy Liberal Dem...  
SB_Johnny   WereSpielChequers AKA Jonathan Cardy Liberal Dem...  
Michaeldsuarez   http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid...  
EricBarbour   I'd like to see a list of those editors. Isn...  
RMHED   I'd like to see a list of those editors. Is...  
EricBarbour   Try here and on this profile here he just happens...  
RMHED   [quote name='RMHED' post='293429' date='Tue 10th ...  
dogbiscuit   [quote name='RMHED' post='293429' date='Tue 10th...  
thekohser   Amusingly, a privacy manager (for what looks like...  
lilburne   No mention of Wikipedia here. Obviously he doe...  
thekohser   I didn't know WR had an "indent" fea...  
Peter Damian   Finally after some considerable effort, and some p...  
lilburne   On page 5 the CC question the relationship between...  
Peter Damian   On page 5 the CC question the relationship betwee...  
SB_Johnny   What's the latest on this effort, Peter?  
Peter Damian   What's the latest on this effort, Peter? Th...  
SB_Johnny   What's the latest on this effort, Peter? T...  
Peter Damian   Another update. Fairly tough going, dealing with ...  
thekohser   So poo to those who laughed at people who complai...  
Selina   :) whatdotheyknow.com (via theyworkforyou.com)  
HRIP7   The document with Ed's and my evidence submiss...  
RMHED   Good work. The demographics part is very telling ...  
Ottava   Good work. The demographics part is very telling...  
Eppur si muove   Good work. The demographics part is very tellin...  
Peter Damian   These are all well worth reading (the third one is...  
Cunningly Linguistic   ...the third one is Van Haeften's oral submis...  
Detective   Naturally a Wikipedian wouldn't find that unu...  
Cla68   These are all well worth reading (the third one i...  
Ottava   All great stuff. Peter's submission exposes ...  
lilburne   Opportunity knocks: http://forums.theregister.co.u...  
SB_Johnny   Opportunity knocks: [url=http://forums.theregiste...  
thekohser   Working link: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/...  
SB_Johnny   [quote name='SB_Johnny' post='301899' date='Mon 1...  
Cunningly Linguistic   [quote name='SB_Johnny' post='301899' date='Mon 1...  
thekohser   I thought you no longer wished to post here? Just...  
Cunningly Linguistic   I thought you no longer wished to post here? Jus...  
SB_Johnny   [quote name='thekohser' post='301966' date='Mon 1...  
TungstenCarbide   I thought you no longer wished to post here?Just t...  
lilburne   Tories -> Jimmy -> Commons -> Pornography...  
Peter Damian   A letter from the Advertising Standards Authority....  
standixon   A letter from the Advertising Standards Authority...  
Ottava   A letter from the Advertising Standards Authority...  
KD Tries Again   Just catching up with this. You're doing some...  
2 Pages V  1 2 >


Reply to this topicStart new topic
3 User(s) are reading this topic (3 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

-   Lo-Fi Version Time is now:
 
     
FORUM WARNING [2] Cannot modify header information - headers already sent by (output started at /home2/wikipede/public_html/int042kj398.php:242) (Line: 0 of Unknown)