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> One Of The Nation's Flop Historians Decides It's Time To Embrace Wikipedia, ♒♒♒ Atlantis Rues The Wave ♒♒♒
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post Sat 4th February 2012, 6:34pm
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One Of The Nation's Top Historians Decides It's Time To Embrace Wikipedia

The Atlantic
By Rebecca J. Rosen The world of academic scholarship — particularly the field of history — has at times had a strained relationship with the massive collaborative project that is Wikipedia. In 2007, for example, the history department at Middlebury …
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thekohser
post Sun 5th February 2012, 5:19pm
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Historian William Cronon's Wikipedia biography contains the following lavishly-written paragraph, entirely unsourced:
QUOTE
In his essay, "The Trouble with Wilderness", published in the New York Times, and in Uncommon Ground: Toward Reinventing Nature (1995), Cronon traced the idea of wilderness throughout American history. Cronon argues that this history allows us to see how fantasies of untouched, pristine wilderness, are only fantasies. Even wilderness is indelibly shaped by human history and labor, and we mislead ourselves when we conceive of wilderness otherwise (as many environmentalists did). Cronon does not argue that we should therefore dispense with wilderness or fail to protect it. The trouble with our fantasy of untouched wilderness is that it distracts us from the nature everywhere about us by fixating instead on the allegedly untouched nature out there, in the wild. The task Cronon gives us is to form a responsible relationship with both the nature of the wilderness, where we play, and the nature where we live and work.


With such generous PR puffery, it's no doubt why Cronon likes Wikipedia -- it's good for marketing!

I wonder if Jon Awbrey's head is exploding, because Cronon was Awbrey's hero in the anti-ALEC wars, and now Cronon is fully on board with WikiLove.

This post has been edited by thekohser: Sun 5th February 2012, 5:21pm
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Jon Awbrey
post Sun 5th February 2012, 8:42pm
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QUOTE

It is too, too sad that Bill Cronon lacks the historical perspective to see that Jimbo, Inc. manifests exactly the same sort of capitulation to the totalitarian feudal agenda as does ALEC, if only in a different register.

Jon Awbrey • 05 Feb 2012

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EricBarbour
post Mon 6th February 2012, 7:03am
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a) I need to tell Ed about this.

b) Who in the hell is "Sterling Ericsson"? Oh, right, Seren......
If only that reporter knew what Sterling was into. Other than Wikipedia.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Mon 6th February 2012, 7:07am
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Selina
post Mon 6th February 2012, 7:17am
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Googled
QUOTE
ALEC Exposed
alecexposed.org
3 days ago – The Center for Media and Democracy has EXPOSED over 800 "model" bills and resolutions secretly voted on by corporations and politicians ...
Cool site.
JA you seen this, tell me if anything is missing? smile.gif wikipediareview.com/?showtopic=36274
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thekohser
post Mon 6th February 2012, 1:35pm
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I've added some comments to The Atlantic article, including asking Mr. Ericsson for his credentials, so that we may better consider his authority.
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Jon Awbrey
post Mon 6th February 2012, 8:38pm
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QUOTE(Selina @ Mon 6th February 2012, 2:17am) *

Googled

QUOTE

ALEC Exposed

alecexposed.org

3 days ago — The Center for Media and Democracy has EXPOSED over 800 "model" bills and resolutions secretly voted on by corporations and politicians …


Cool site.

JA you seen this, tell me if anything is missing? smile.gif wikipediareview.com/?showtopic=36274


There are a bunch of ALEC watcher groups and pages on Facebook —

Here's an article on PolicyMic where I kept a running tab on a few of them in the comments —

PolicyMicCorporations Have Stranglehold On U.S. Politics, Especially the Group ALEC

There's also a UK pseudo-charity that is linked to ALEC somehow, but I forget the name right now.

Jon B)
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EricBarbour
post Tue 7th February 2012, 3:03am
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Anyone not suffering from a furry fox suit-induced bout of heat stroke would select Wikipedia Review on that count.

He failed to rise to the "bait". Such a foolish young man. tongue.gif
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Fusion
post Tue 7th February 2012, 2:49pm
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QUOTE
For example, I hold a BA (high honors), a Masters, and ABD toward PhD, and I hold a director-level position in marketing research with a Fortune 100 company.

Greg

I do urge you for your own good not to be so pretentious. It is the opposite of productive. (Maybe I should have a signature "Nobody knows I have a PhD. laugh.gif )



QUOTE
Anyone not suffering from a furry fox suit-induced bout of heat stroke

In this weather? At present a fox fur would be a good idea.
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Jon Awbrey
post Tue 7th February 2012, 5:06pm
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This just in …

Thom HartmannHow ALEC Is Turning Our Democracy Into A Corporatocracy

Jon Image
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thekohser
post Tue 7th February 2012, 8:30pm
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QUOTE(Fusion @ Tue 7th February 2012, 9:49am) *

QUOTE
For example, I hold a BA (high honors), a Masters, and ABD toward PhD, and I hold a director-level position in marketing research with a Fortune 100 company.

Greg

I do urge you for your own good not to be so pretentious. It is the opposite of productive. (Maybe I should have a signature "Nobody knows I have a PhD. laugh.gif )


Who is this "Fusion", advising me now? How do I know you have my best interests in mind?

See, I posted a very simple summary of my credentials, to which Ericsson cried out that they don't count for anything on Wikipedia. Another critic (not at all going by a real name, of course) called me a "twat" for posting my credentials. Then, I posted my Wikipedia-related credentials, to which Ericsson responded by rather curtly calling me "Kohs" (not "Mr. Kohs", or "Greg", which both would have seemed more appropriate to me -- really, who addresses someone in conversation by their last name only?), and by saying that Wikipedia Review is "dedicated to undermining Wikipedia in any way possible" and asking me how many blocked accounts I have on Wikipedia.

Are these actually relevant to addressing my credentials to speak about Wikipedia?

Maybe I should just create pseudonymous accounts like "icanhazfreeculture" to respond however I want on articles like the one run by Atlantic here.
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Fusion
post Tue 7th February 2012, 10:10pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 7th February 2012, 8:30pm) *

Who is this "Fusion", advising me now? How do I know you have my best interests in mind?

That is very cynical. It is also irrelevant. If I gave you my real name, address and date of birth, would that help you to know whether I give good advice? As you are an expert in market research, do you know the meaning of my account name?

This post has been edited by Fusion: Tue 7th February 2012, 10:10pm
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thekohser
post Wed 8th February 2012, 2:23am
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QUOTE(Fusion @ Tue 7th February 2012, 5:10pm) *

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 7th February 2012, 8:30pm) *

Who is this "Fusion", advising me now? How do I know you have my best interests in mind?

That is very cynical. It is also irrelevant. If I gave you my real name, address and date of birth, would that help you to know whether I give good advice? As you are an expert in market research, do you know the meaning of my account name?


Because you say "It is also irrelevant" doesn't make it irrelevant. I know the meaning of the word "fusion", but I am not deciphering any special significant meaning (unless you're talking about data fusion, such as data enrichment based on ZIP codes or some such), whereby your advice to me is any more meaningful.

In fact, I do heartily believe that if you gave your real name, address, and date of birth, that would help me to know whether you give good advice. For example, if your real name is Guy Chapman, UK expert on cycling helmets and male opera composers, then I would know that your advice is likely driven by personal vendetta, not earnest guidance.
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RMHED
post Wed 8th February 2012, 2:41am
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 6th February 2012, 8:38pm) *



There's also a UK pseudo-charity that is linked to ALEC somehow, but I forget the name right now.

Jon B)

The Atlantic Bridge ?
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Jon Awbrey
post Wed 8th February 2012, 4:28am
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QUOTE(RMHED @ Tue 7th February 2012, 9:41pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 6th February 2012, 8:38pm) *

There's also a UK pseudo-charity that is linked to ALEC somehow, but I forget the name right now.

Jon Image


The Atlantic Bridge ?


Yup, that's the one ...

Jon Image
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Fusion
post Wed 8th February 2012, 12:36pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 8th February 2012, 2:23am) *

if your real name is Guy Chapman, UK expert on cycling helmets and male opera composers, then I would know that your advice is likely driven by personal vendetta, not earnest guidance.

No, I am not this Guy Chapman. I concede that I from time to time ride a bicycle and enjoy Russian opera (which is largely male in that most of the leading characters are male), but these details really are irrelevant. Nor do I see how giving you what I am sure many here will regard as good advice could be regarded as part of a vendetta. But if you shall not listen to me then it does not matter to me.

This post has been edited by Fusion: Wed 8th February 2012, 12:37pm
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thekohser
post Thu 9th February 2012, 3:26am
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QUOTE(Fusion @ Wed 8th February 2012, 7:36am) *

...giving you what I am sure many here will regard as good advice...


What led you to that conclusion? Nobody has come to your support here, and certainly nobody who proffers real-name credentials of any sort.
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Fusion
post Thu 9th February 2012, 12:49pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 9th February 2012, 3:26am) *

QUOTE(Fusion @ Wed 8th February 2012, 7:36am) *

...giving you what I am sure many here will regard as good advice...


What led you to that conclusion? Nobody has come to your support here, and certainly nobody who proffers real-name credentials of any sort.

Ok. Shall we have a poll? laugh.gif
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post Thu 9th February 2012, 2:01pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 7th February 2012, 8:30pm) *

QUOTE(Fusion @ Tue 7th February 2012, 9:49am) *

QUOTE
For example, I hold a BA (high honors), a Masters, and ABD toward PhD, and I hold a director-level position in marketing research with a Fortune 100 company.

Greg

I do urge you for your own good not to be so pretentious. It is the opposite of productive. (Maybe I should have a signature "Nobody knows I have a PhD. laugh.gif )


Who is this "Fusion", advising me now? How do I know you have my best interests in mind?



Whether he does or doesn't have your best interests in mind doesn't detract from the fact that it is good advice. IME pretentious people tend to be snubbed and ridiculed behind their backs. To their fronts one just nods sagely whilst thinking "what a pretentious twat".

Pretentious people tend to be perceived as being condescending when giving advice. Doubly so for people who constantly blow their own trumpet and constantly harp on about how good they are.

All your above boxes are ticked. You are a big-headed condescending twat with airs and graces and a self-importance off the scale, e.g. "mainstream press".

Note to Greg. The majority of the world doesn't give a crap about Wikipedia, even more so than hypocritical correspondents who wax lyrical about a single subject that in the real world, ie outside the wikiverse (and WR), no-one gives a shit about. In the scheme of things WP is just not important. And someone who make a business out of that non-important business is even less important.

This unimportance (and obsession) is not a solid foundation to base one's pretentiousness on. Especially someone with bugger all sense of humour.

This post has been edited by Cunningly Linguistic: Thu 9th February 2012, 2:02pm
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thekohser
post Thu 9th February 2012, 4:33pm
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Let me know when the two of you with zero accomplishments in life and no credentials to share are done.
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