Military of Algeria Options

[The Joy]

I was looking at Military of Algeria (T-H-L-K-D) and found two statements that Algeria and other "Arab" states were and still are in a state of war with Israel. The article even alleged that Algeria returned several Mig-29s back to Russia because of Israeli parts in the Migs. I read the citations for those statements and none of the sources discussed Israel. From what I gathered, Algeria was upset about the shoddy work on the Migs, not because of foreign parts. I do not know about Israel-Algeria relations, but I know a state of war does not exist between the two.

What would anyone have to gain by claiming that Algeria is hostile and a threat to Israel?

[Tarc]

What would anyone have to gain by claiming that Algeria is hostile and a threat to Israel?

This has been the modus operandi of Jayjg and Crew for years; subtle manipulation of articles to either elevate Israel or demonize their opponents. Slipping a bit of "they turned jets down because dirty Jews touched them" into a lightly-trafficked article is routine.

[Tarc]

What would anyone have to gain by claiming that Algeria is hostile and a threat to Israel?

This has been the modus operandi of Jayjg, CAMERA, the JIDF, and associated activists for years; subtle manipulation of articles to either elevate Israel or demonize their opponents. Slipping a bit of "they turned jets down because dirty Jews touched them" into a lightly-trafficked article is routine.

And what a surprise, added in Oct 2009 by an Israeli cellphone to both this article and to Algeria as well.

Only other contribution was to note where we can go pick up lots of sweets. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[Wikifan]

lol tarc.

anyways - is this the source the content is based off of?

israel algeria

this is the original info source - i just google searched:info

[The Joy]

The article says, as of this post (Bold is my emphasis):

By contrast, Algeria's post-independence border disagreements with Tunisia and Libya, which were at times a cause for poor relations, both appear to have been peacefully resolved (to its advantage). The Algerian army has also, especially in later years, been highly active along the country's border with northern Mali, where various insurgent movements are based. Algeria has fought only one brief war after independence (the Sand War, a border conflict with Morocco in 1963), but the country is also, like most Arab nations, formally at war with the state of Israel since 1948.

I could understand "less than cordial" relations, but a state of war is a different thing. Like North and South Korea with a frozen war? No citation for that "fact," at any rate.

n 2006, multi-billion dollar purchases of Russian military equipment were made in order to upgrade the country's conventional arsenal. This included a deal by the Algerian Air Force to purchase 28 Su-30MKA and 36 MiG-29SMT for up to $3.5 billion. However, those MiG-29s were returned to Russia in February 2008 because of poor quality of their airframe, after technical evaluations in Algeria.[5] In May 2008 the two governments agreed a new deal to replace those 36 MiG-29SMT by a new batch of 16 Su-30MKA which meet all requirements of Algerian Air Force, but the issue does not appear to be completely resolved in 2009.

As of October 2009 it was reported that Algeria cancels weapons deal over Israeli parts.[6]

The way the article reads, it sounds like the Mig deal was canceled because there were Israeli parts in the Migs. It did not clarify that it had changed the subject.

I cannot help but get a "anti-Israel = anti-semiticism" vibe from the article. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

[Wikifan]

I cannot help but get a "anti-Israel = anti-semiticism" vibe from the article.

where do you get this vibe from?

is israel in a formal state of war with algeria? dont think so, algeria - like most arab states - dont recognize israel, but that doesnt constitute a formal state of war. only countries i can think of at the top of my head are lebanon, syria, saudi arabia, and iran? i think, maybe more or less.

israel gov. defines nations as "enemy states" so whether this is a technical state of war i dont know.

other than that it appears algeria did in fact cancel a defense contract because of israel involvement.

how can someone inflate this as some way to demonize algeria? love tarc's ranting.

[lilburne]

They are talking about poor quality parts. Perhaps the parts from Israel were made using Cimatron, which outside of Israel they have to almost give away. Thing goes bust every couple of years or so, and than suddenly gets a mysterious influx of money to keep it afloat, but basically its not much use, and most other machining packages passed it by a decade ago.

[Tarc]

I cannot help but get a "anti-Israel = anti-semiticism" vibe from the article.

where do you get this vibe from?

From people like you? This mindset has been part and parcel of your Wikipedia editing history, though all your accounts.

[mbz1]

There was a user on Wikipedia. This user (Lanternix) is a Coptic Arab, who lives in Alexandria, Egypt. This user was driven away (for now only from Wikipedia, not from Egypt yet) by nableezy. Here's what this user used to have on his user page (scroll down):

After what he has witnessed in both virtual and real life, this user has become a firm supporter of the state of Israel

So why an Arab, who lives in Egypt became "a firm supporter of the state of Israel"?
Does he believe Israel is all right and Arab countries are all wrong? I doubt it.
I'm, myself far from making such statements. But user Lanternix as myself probably sees
what is coming, if God forbid Israel is destroyed:
Sunnis would be murdering Shi'ites; Shi'ites would be murdering Sunnis, Egyptian Muslims would be murdering Egyptian Copts in even bigger proportion than they are now, Muslims in Syria will be murdering Muslims in Syria, a new Saddam Husein will invade Kuwait, and so on, and so on, and so on. It will happen because they hate as another Arab, a victim of Islamic terror put it.
And they do hate because only hate could explain an absolutely needless tagging the article Israeli Female Basketball Premier League. by nableezy.


Now Muslim hate towards Israel connects them, but if, Israel is gone there will be nothing to connect them any more. Think about Israel like about a join that connects bones-Arab countries. Most Arabs believe they will be better off without this join, but they are wrong because,if something is to happen to this join, the bones will fell apart,and break.
Maybe one day, when Muslims will learn to live in peace with each others they will not need Israel to connect them any more, but I am sure Muslims will learn to live in peace with Israel before they will learn to live in peace with each other.


So, "Anti-Israeli" is not always equals "anti-Semitic" , but it is always equals "a useful idiot". (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

This post has been edited by mbz1:

[Malik Shabazz]

There was a user on Wikipedia. This user (Lanternix) is a Coptic Arab, who lives in Alexandria, Egypt.

I don't know how to break the news to you, mbz, but Copts aren't Arabs.

[mbz1]

There was a user on Wikipedia. This user (Lanternix) is a Coptic Arab, who lives in Alexandria, Egypt.

I don't know how to break the news to you, mbz, but Copts aren't Arabs.

Well, different scholars have a different opinion on this subject

While some non-Coptic authors claim that Copts in Egypt have an Arab identity while Copts in the West tend to identify as "non-Arab",[15][16] other non-Coptic scholars disagree, stating that "Copts are not Arabs" and that they predate the Arabs' arrival to Egypt .

[SB_Johnny]

I cannot help but get a "anti-Israel = anti-semiticism" vibe from the article.

where do you get this vibe from?

From people like you? This mindset has been part and parcel of your Wikipedia editing history, though all your accounts.

Maybe this isn't as germane as I suspect, but Wikifan's habit of appearing on every thread that has even the slightest bearing on the state of good ol' Israel strikes me as illustrative of the problem. Though to be fair, that probably applies to Malik as well.

A fella might be excused for wondering it either of you two have opinions on anything else. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

There was a user on Wikipedia. This user (Lanternix) is a Coptic Arab, who lives in Alexandria, Egypt.

I don't know how to break the news to you, mbz, but Copts aren't Arabs.

Well, different scholars have a different opinion on this subject

While some non-Coptic authors claim that Copts in Egypt have an Arab identity while Copts in the West tend to identify as "non-Arab",[15][16] other non-Coptic scholars disagree, stating that "Copts are not Arabs" and that they predate the Arabs' arrival to Egypt .

I was going to ask a friend about this but there is never a Copt around when you need one.

[Wikifan]

I cannot help but get a "anti-Israel = anti-semiticism" vibe from the article.

where do you get this vibe from?

From people like you? This mindset has been part and parcel of your Wikipedia editing history, though all your accounts.

hmm. like i said, where did you get this "vibe" from in the article? all i see is two statements regarding israel, one is obviously true - backed by a source, the other, not really sure.

whether or not algeria is at war with israel couldn't be construed as antisemitic. my vibe is that people sometimes preemptively defend the suspicious of policies of arab states by claiming they are victims to claims of antisemitism.

yet i see no mention of anti-jewish accusation, none in the article. so i dont understand your synthesis from the article.


nobody cares about freaking algeria. so relax.

Well, different scholars have a different opinion on this subject

in a purely technical sense coptics are not arab. coptic presence in egypt exists before the arab identity, and before the islamic invasion. although i guess it's easy to confuse egyptian with arab as both copts and arabs are obviously egyptian.

[Malik Shabazz]

I cannot help but get a "anti-Israel = anti-semiticism" vibe from the article.

where do you get this vibe from?

From people like you? This mindset has been part and parcel of your Wikipedia editing history, though all your accounts.

Maybe this isn't as germane as I suspect, but Wikifan's habit of appearing on every thread that has even the slightest bearing on the state of good ol' Israel strikes me as illustrative of the problem. Though to be fair, that probably applies to Malik as well.

A fella might be excused for wondering it either of you two have opinions on anything else. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

I've got opinions about lots of things, but I mostly like to set mbz1 straight.

There was a user on Wikipedia. This user (Lanternix) is a Coptic Arab, who lives in Alexandria, Egypt.

I don't know how to break the news to you, mbz, but Copts aren't Arabs.

Well, different scholars have a different opinion on this subject

While some non-Coptic authors claim that Copts in Egypt have an Arab identity while Copts in the West tend to identify as "non-Arab",[15][16] other non-Coptic scholars disagree, stating that "Copts are not Arabs" and that they predate the Arabs' arrival to Egypt .

I was going to ask a friend about this but there is never a Copt around when you need one.

:rimshot:

[radek]

There was a user on Wikipedia. This user (Lanternix) is a Coptic Arab, who lives in Alexandria, Egypt.

I don't know how to break the news to you, mbz, but Copts aren't Arabs.

Well, different scholars have a different opinion on this subject

While some non-Coptic authors claim that Copts in Egypt have an Arab identity while Copts in the West tend to identify as "non-Arab",[15][16] other non-Coptic scholars disagree, stating that "Copts are not Arabs" and that they predate the Arabs' arrival to Egypt .

I was going to ask a friend about this but there is never a Copt around when you need one.

Take a stroll down to your local Dunkin Donuts...

nobody cares about freaking algeria. so relax.

I sort of care. Interesting place, had a friend from there once. That's a weird/assholish thing to say.

[Wikifan]

I sort of care. Interesting place, had a friend from there once. That's a weird/assholish thing to say.

i mean nobody cares about algeria enough to defame it. tarc inferring that editors are out to "get" algeria.

[mbz1]

I've got opinions about lots of things, but I mostly like to set mbz1 straight.

Wow!What a shame·less admission in one own indecency this is!

But I do agree you have opinions about lots of things (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)
For example I know you have an opinion about watching pornography.
At your user page you informed everybody that you are enjoying pornography (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
I also know that you're supporting dirty grave dancing at blocked editors talk pages,
and like to perform some yourself (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif) You know what I am talking about?
Yes, the very dances that you performed at my talk page, and that got reverted by a decent administrators in a few minutes.

This post has been edited by mbz1:

[radek]

I sort of care. Interesting place, had a friend from there once. That's a weird/assholish thing to say.

i mean nobody cares about algeria enough to defame it. tarc inferring that editors are out to "get" algeria.

Come on, this is Wikipedia we're talking about. There's certainly people out there who care enough to defame it. There's people on Wikipedia who care enough to defame obscure cartoon characters, local county coroners, completely unknown species of mollusk, esoteric aesthetic movements which lasted for a month or two, a couple of lines in a poem written by some loser a couple hundred years ago, mountains which don't rise up to people's expectations (honestly, I've seen the smaller mountains really get it in some of these fights), particular numbers get a short shift (like 58345.3474 - where is the stub on that one???), Trabants and Yugos, dirt, dust, ether and soil, ethnic groups which haven't existed for centuries, centuries during which not much might have happened, as well as abstraction like truth, justice and beauty, which technically speaking, should be beyond defamation. Algeria (please capitalize it next time!) is probably pretty high on the defamers list, all things considering.

This post has been edited by radek:

[Wikifan]

Come on, this is Wikipedia we're talking about. There's certainly people out there who care enough to defame it.

okay, i guess there are some people who hate algeria enough to sully its wikipedia page.

so far though the community hasn't identified any serious issues with algeria. arbpia is almost 100% israel/palestine/hamas/hezbollah.

tarc's "vibes" didn't add up and seemed to be more reactionary than anything else. algeria is not a hugely important country as far as the conflict is concerned. my posts were aimed at tarc's harsh interpretation of clearly meaningless edits.