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Arbcom Elections 2008 |
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Rootology |
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Official link: Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2008List or arbiters whose terms expire:1. Blnguyen2. Charles Matthews3. James F.4. Morven5. ThebainerExpiring arbiters who have said they will not seek re-election:(Please reply with others who have said as much, I'll update this top level post)1. Morven ( here) Expiring arbiters who have previously won re-election:(Please reply with others who have pulled this off, I'll update this top level post)1. ? Number of open seats (normal): 5, plus one extra open one since Paul August retired, for 6 total. Paul's spot is only good to December 2009, when he would have expired anyway. The others are currently set to be the normal 3 years. This post has been edited by Rootology:
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Alex |
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Back from the dead
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QUOTE(everyking @ Fri 29th August 2008, 5:59am) Surely none of them could be re-elected, and I hope they'll save us the trouble by simply not running. I want to see someone run on a platform of holding meaningful votes on public proposals during ArbCom cases, to facilitate quick and transparent decision-making, instead of this secretive elitist business of reaching a consensus behind closed doors (even if that takes six months). Even better--a candidate who announces that they will not participate on the ArbCom mailing list at all, or only when sensitive, privacy related issues need to be discussed, and will instead do all of their discussion on-wiki.
Of those ending their terms, I'd probably only be able to support Charles Matthews with confidence. The rest are either too busy elsewhere, or unsuitable.
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The Joy |
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I am a millipede! I am amazing!
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 12:42am)
Number of open seats (normal): 5, plus one extra open one since Paul August retired, for 6 total. Paul's spot is only good to December 2009, when he would have expired anyway. The others are currently set to be the normal 3 years.
Gee, I didn't realize Paul August was to expire in December 2009! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Since when can Election Stewards predict death? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif)
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KamrynMatika |
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QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 10:53am) I am thinking of running. I can't do worse than last time. I will wait and see who else runs, though, as if there's some good candidates I won't bother. LOL @ the opposes. "You must be this tall to ride the Hitler mobile". Priceless. I predict WJBScribe and AGK will run, as well as maybe Rlevse. I'm looking forward to seeing who the obvious fail candidates are going to be.
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KamrynMatika |
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QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:21am) QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Fri 29th August 2008, 10:01am) I predict WJBScribe and AGK will run, as well as maybe Rlevse. I'm looking forward to seeing who the obvious fail candidates are going to be.
The defeat of WJBscribe should be priority number one to anyone who'd like to see a clean Wikipedia. http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=19025http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=15343http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=17490Of course, my comment should not necessarily be taken as supportive of any of the people I mentioned. My speculation is based on the fact that people who run for bureaucrat and succeed tend to do well in elections (like Essjay and Deskana). Anyone who has been promoted to bureaucrat recently has a good chance of succeeding. It's all academic really, as the arbitration committee are an inherently corrupt, incompetent and useless institution that could be replaced by a computer that randomly generates decisions (and it'd probably make a better job of it). What can I say, it's fun to watch. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) QUOTE Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe. God, not again. He nominates himself for everything. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/huh.gif) I wish he'd get the picture already (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) This post has been edited by KamrynMatika:
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wikiwhistle |
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QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 10:53am) I am thinking of running. I can't do worse than last time. I will wait and see who else runs, though, as if there's some good candidates I won't bother. I was going to ask if you would run. But I think it takes a degree of superiority complex to be an arb, and some of the people who might stand will probably have The Edge on you when it comes to that. You need to work harder at projecting Unwarranted Self- Importance (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:01am)
I predict WJBScribe and AGK will run, as well as maybe Rlevse. I'm looking forward to seeing who the obvious fail candidates are going to be.
Will the panties have "Nonvocalscream for Arbcom' on them this year?(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) What do people think of Jehochman as an arb? I don't know him that well but he comes from some sort of legal background, and contributes under his real name. This post has been edited by wikiwhistle:
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thekohser |
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QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Fri 29th August 2008, 3:50am) QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:46am) QUOTE(maiawatatos @ Fri 29th August 2008, 5:16am) James F., Morven and Thebainer will certainly not be missed for even a millisecond.
I nominate Morven's wife Alana Brown to take his place on ArbCom: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morven/sets/371552/Can we please not have random nasty pot shots at completely uninvolved and unrelated people? It does at least speak to the notion of "Could you imagine an Encyclopedia Britannica editor taking someone sporting this level of personal character to the company holiday dinner?" There is a huge difference between the interests (Pokemon, hogtie, Harry Potter, etc.) and outward "I'm here to be me, not to conform to any boring standards of Western civilization" attitudes that pervade Wikipedia, and the traditional professional interests (13th century philosophy, the Congress of Vienna, quasars, General Cable Corporation, etc.), meticulousness, and conformist attitudes that would pervade any PUBLISHED general encyclopedia. I'm just sayin'... (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)
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Carruthers |
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the Omnipotent Autocrat of La La land
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:37am) What do people think of Jehochman as an arb?
I don't know him that well but he comes from some sort of legal background, and contributes under his real name.
I'm sure that he'll get Durova's vote! (that said, he wouldn't be a bad choice, considering....) I'll be very surprised if Moreschi doesn't throw his hat in this time, since he's been so active in various cases involving "fringe theories"....
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thekohser |
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 7:37am) What do people think of Jehochman as an arb?
I don't know him that well but he comes from some sort of legal background, and contributes under his real name.
He doesn't sound very legally-oriented to me at all. +++++++++++++++ Jonathan Hochman A graduate of Yale University with two degrees in Computer Science, Hochman's credentials include: Qualified Google Advertising Professional Yahoo Search Marketing Ambassador Microsoft adExcellence Member Search Engine Marketing Professionals Organization (SEMPO) member firm Search Engine Marketing New England (SEMNE) member firm Search Engine Strategies conference speaker Search Marketing Expo conference speaker High Rankings SEO Forum moderator Organization of Independent Software Vendors member In 1990 Hochman set up a consulting practice in New York City, focusing on international business development. For more than a decade he represented Russian clients in both import and export transactions with the United States, Europe and Asia. He also built web sites for clients . In 2004 he launched Hochman Consultants, a firm that specializes in Internet marketing, search engine optimization, and pay-per-click advertising. +++++++++++++++ One time, though, when he saw that I posted something here about something that Orbitz was trying to do on Wikipedia, he jumped to conclusions and announced on Wikipedia that I was "deeply involved" with my supposed "client", Orbitz. To his credit, I was able to rein in his hyperactive imagination with just one phone call. Overall, I think he's an okay guy, but I do wonder about how his business stays successful, what with all his Wikipediaing all the time.
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Vicky |
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QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:46am) This is interesting. Can you share a link?
So you know absolutely nothing about the history of Poetlister and her blocks? QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:21am) The defeat of WJBscribe should be priority number one to anyone who'd like to see a clean Wikipedia.
I'm surprised and pleased to see you say that; I thought you agreed with him on a few things. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 29th August 2008, 12:52pm) There is a huge difference between the interests (Pokemon, hogtie, Harry Potter, etc.) and outward "I'm here to be me, not to conform to any boring standards of Western civilization" attitudes that pervade Wikipedia, and the traditional professional interests (13th century philosophy, the Congress of Vienna, quasars, General Cable Corporation, etc.), meticulousness, and conformist attitudes that would pervade any PUBLISHED general encyclopedia.
What's wrong with hogties? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) This post has been edited by Taxwoman:
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Rootology |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 29th August 2008, 4:52am) QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Fri 29th August 2008, 3:50am) QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:46am) QUOTE(maiawatatos @ Fri 29th August 2008, 5:16am) James F., Morven and Thebainer will certainly not be missed for even a millisecond.
I nominate Morven's wife Alana Brown to take his place on ArbCom: http://www.flickr.com/photos/morven/sets/371552/Can we please not have random nasty pot shots at completely uninvolved and unrelated people? It does at least speak to the notion of "Could you imagine an Encyclopedia Britannica editor taking someone sporting this level of personal character to the company holiday dinner?" No, it really doesn't... It's just mean busting on people that don't look like the fake middle-America Abercrombie & Fitch-look that society seems to hold to be true for this country. Who cares what people look like? Society as a whole absolutely is NOT defined by the mores and values of white middle America and thankfully never ever will be. Can Mods please aggressively police this thread by splitting off stuff whenever it gets into pointless sniping about people's appearances of all things, and the inevitable "Free Poetlister" history lessons (sorry, Taxwoman) This post has been edited by Rootology:
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JoseClutch |
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QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 6:08am) Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe.
Particularly after his RFB failed, Ryan has been getting more involved in the Mediation Committee, ramped up his attempts to be involved in making community proposals (such as the latest Betacommand one), and has been advocating various changes to how candidates are selected on the 2008 elections discussion page.
Yeah, Postlethwaite will be running. It is impossible to believe otherwise. If there were a public vote on his checkuser application where he got slaughtered he might not, but it is private so he will not know (and if he is approved, then definitely). I am pretty sure MBisanz will too, he has been pretty clearly powermongering. I am not sure who else. Kmweber, probably, although Kurt can be a realist, so maybe not. I would vote for Jehochman. Absolutely. He is not, as far as I can tell, anyone's bitch. But I would probably vote for Durova, so my opinion may not be reflective of anything.
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Ryan Postlethwaite |
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QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:08am) Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe.
Particularly after his RFB failed, Ryan has been getting more involved in the Mediation Committee, ramped up his attempts to be involved in making community proposals (such as the latest Betacommand one), and has been advocating various changes to how candidates are selected on the 2008 elections discussion page.
Actually Neil, I'm not even considering running. I don't think I'd be that good at it, and I don't think I'd be able to give it the time it requires. I haven't stepped up my participation in MedCom - I've been active in it since I joined last September.
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Neil |
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QUOTE(Ryan Postlethwaite @ Fri 29th August 2008, 3:06pm) QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:08am) Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe.
Particularly after his RFB failed, Ryan has been getting more involved in the Mediation Committee, ramped up his attempts to be involved in making community proposals (such as the latest Betacommand one), and has been advocating various changes to how candidates are selected on the 2008 elections discussion page.
Actually Neil, I'm not even considering running. I don't think I'd be that good at it, and I don't think I'd be able to give it the time it requires. I haven't stepped up my participation in MedCom - I've been active in it since I joined last September. Yes, that's what I said. More involved in MedCom. I thought you were a cert to run. That's too bad.
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JoseClutch |
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QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 10:25am) QUOTE(Ryan Postlethwaite @ Fri 29th August 2008, 3:06pm) QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:08am) Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe.
Particularly after his RFB failed, Ryan has been getting more involved in the Mediation Committee, ramped up his attempts to be involved in making community proposals (such as the latest Betacommand one), and has been advocating various changes to how candidates are selected on the 2008 elections discussion page.
Actually Neil, I'm not even considering running. I don't think I'd be that good at it, and I don't think I'd be able to give it the time it requires. I haven't stepped up my participation in MedCom - I've been active in it since I joined last September. Yes, that's what I said. More involved in MedCom. I thought you were a cert to run. That's too bad. I also find this particularly surprising. Ryan's actions have all suggested he would do such a thing.
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Pumpkin Muffins |
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Thu 28th August 2008, 9:42pm) Official link: Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2008List or arbiters whose terms expire:1. Blnguyen2. Charles Matthews3. James F.4. Morven5. ThebainerExpiring arbiters who have said they will not seek re-election:(Please reply with others who have said as much, I'll update this top level post)1. Morven ( here) Expiring arbiters who have previously won re-election:(Please reply with others who have pulled this off, I'll update this top level post)1. ? Number of open seats (normal): 5, plus one extra open one since Paul August retired, for 6 total. Paul's spot is only good to December 2009, when he would have expired anyway. The others are currently set to be the normal 3 years. I heard a rumor that Bishzilla is running.
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wikiwhistle |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 29th August 2008, 12:52pm) There is a huge difference between the interests (Pokemon, hogtie, Harry Potter, etc.) and outward "I'm here to be me, not to conform to any boring standards of Western civilization" attitudes that pervade Wikipedia, and the traditional professional interests (13th century philosophy, the Congress of Vienna, quasars, General Cable Corporation, etc.), meticulousness, and conformist attitudes that would pervade any PUBLISHED general encyclopedia. I'm just sayin'... (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) From what I know of professors etc these days, they're very liberal and get upto all sorts in their spare time. They might not always flaunt it, but nowadays I doubt anyone's sexual or subcultural proclivities would get them kicked out of academia, unless they're illegal. And some of my knowledge is of a Classics department (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)
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Rootology |
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QUOTE(Pumpkin Muffins @ Fri 29th August 2008, 7:59am) QUOTE(Rootology @ Thu 28th August 2008, 9:42pm) Official link: Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2008List or arbiters whose terms expire:1. Blnguyen2. Charles Matthews3. James F.4. Morven5. ThebainerExpiring arbiters who have said they will not seek re-election:(Please reply with others who have said as much, I'll update this top level post)1. Morven ( here) Expiring arbiters who have previously won re-election:(Please reply with others who have pulled this off, I'll update this top level post)1. ? Number of open seats (normal): 5, plus one extra open one since Paul August retired, for 6 total. Paul's spot is only good to December 2009, when he would have expired anyway. The others are currently set to be the normal 3 years. I heard a rumor that Bishzilla is running. Bish in any format of grammar has infinitely more clue than half the Arbitration Committee and it's founder COMBINED. Sadly, since she's also prone to speaking her mind clearly, I'm sure some/most useless trolls will see her as 1) an uppity woman; 2) an uppity editor; 3) clearly incompatible with being an Arb because she's willing to do the right things. I'd vote for her in a heartbeat.
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Rootology |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:02am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 29th August 2008, 12:52pm) There is a huge difference between the interests (Pokemon, hogtie, Harry Potter, etc.) and outward "I'm here to be me, not to conform to any boring standards of Western civilization" attitudes that pervade Wikipedia, and the traditional professional interests (13th century philosophy, the Congress of Vienna, quasars, General Cable Corporation, etc.), meticulousness, and conformist attitudes that would pervade any PUBLISHED general encyclopedia. I'm just sayin'... (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) From what I know of professors etc these days, they're very liberal and get upto all sorts in their spare time. They might not always flaunt it, but nowadays I doubt anyone's sexual or subcultural proclivities would get them kicked out of academia, unless they're illegal. And some of my knowledge is of a Classics department (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Exactly. How people dress and what they do in their "extracurriculars" is utterly irrelevant to life and business in 99% of the cases out there. I'm sure if you're director level or higher at some multinational or plain large corporations, it may play a role, but 99% of the world is not that. Bucking the trends of society and being contrary to society is always that should be lauded, not lambasted. Nearly all the great thinkers, leaders, and people that worked to change society for the better were "different" and "contrary". Let's see.... Jesus, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Elvis, the American Revolutionaries, Galileo, Newton, Darwin, Warhol... QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:07am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 29th August 2008, 1:01pm) QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 7:37am) What do people think of Jehochman as an arb?
I don't know him that well but he comes from some sort of legal background, and contributes under his real name.
He doesn't sound very legally-oriented to me at all. I was just going on what he mentioned in passing on his talk page to someone. diff"Observers will draw their own conclusions. (Note: I did attend law school, (wikilink:Columbia_Law_School) and am familiar with the concepts." Jon is an extremely multi-talented individual who I would also support in a moment's notice. He came off as a cabalist at first, a bit, but when push came to shove so far from what I've seen he's consistently tried it looks to do the right things, and doesn't appear to be afraid to stick a big middle finger of dissent up when it needs to be done. Yes, he was on the wrong side in some things (bits of that Durova/!! mess), but let's be honest: even Durova in some areas has mellowed out and started to be a bold one. This post has been edited by Rootology:
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QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Fri 29th August 2008, 3:50pm) QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 10:25am) QUOTE(Ryan Postlethwaite @ Fri 29th August 2008, 3:06pm) QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:08am) Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe.
Particularly after his RFB failed, Ryan has been getting more involved in the Mediation Committee, ramped up his attempts to be involved in making community proposals (such as the latest Betacommand one), and has been advocating various changes to how candidates are selected on the 2008 elections discussion page.
Actually Neil, I'm not even considering running. I don't think I'd be that good at it, and I don't think I'd be able to give it the time it requires. I haven't stepped up my participation in MedCom - I've been active in it since I joined last September. Yes, that's what I said. More involved in MedCom. I thought you were a cert to run. That's too bad. I also find this particularly surprising. Ryan's actions have all suggested he would do such a thing. God knows why, but I enjoy getting involved with community proposals. I don't think I'm that far off the mark with the proposals I make, but if anyone expressed concern about them I'd happily step away from it. I also enjoy being part of MedCom - it can be quite fulfilling sitting down with a bunch of users who obviously have issues about each other and leading the discussion so they agree on a suitable compromise. I don't really thing that activity in mediation is a good marker for someone wanting to be on ArbCom. Arbitrators and mediators need very different skills and whilst some are transferable, the key ones (arbitrators rule on conduct, mediatiors take neutral side throughout) are very much different. Some have made the change successfully, but I don't think it's easy for everyone. In my opinion, the best arbitrators are the ones that have stayed out of the politics completely, and have instead shown good judgement in their article editing and background discussion work.
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QUOTE(Ryan Postlethwaite @ Fri 29th August 2008, 9:06am) QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 11:08am) Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe.
Particularly after his RFB failed, Ryan has been getting more involved in the Mediation Committee, ramped up his attempts to be involved in making community proposals (such as the latest Betacommand one), and has been advocating various changes to how candidates are selected on the 2008 elections discussion page.
Actually Neil, I'm not even considering running. I don't think I'd be that good at it, and I don't think I'd be able to give it the time it requires. I haven't stepped up my participation in MedCom - I've been active in it since I joined last September. Time? What time? How much time does it take to make a non-decision decision? Not much, surely. Besides, you should have any number of "clerks" (i.e., wiki-slaves) to help you out with the details. Or maybe it isn't an issue of time. Maybe more of an issue of seeming "humble" or "reluctant", a la Octavian. The gods prosper you, O Wiki-Caesar!
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Rootology |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 29th August 2008, 1:12pm) QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 9:17am) Who cares what people look like?
About 95% of employers, for one. Look, your appendix is inflamed, it will rupture in the next 4 minutes, but at least you're in the Emergency Room. Two doctors walk in your room. One looks like me. The other looks like Alana Brown. They say, in unison, "Rootology, you must choose which of us two shall perform your appendectomy." Who do you choose? 95% of employers in what area? Back down to that city vs. country bit, again, that you and I keep poking each other about. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) But that's apples and oranges and won't get settled. Assuming they're both doctors, I'd go with Alana (I have no idea who this is but I assume she's punk rock based on a few searches) based on the fact that she would be more likely to be daring enough to take a risk to save my life if things went south. I'd generally prefer to bet on the creative driven types, if I had to choose. But that's me.
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 29th August 2008, 9:12pm) QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 9:17am) Who cares what people look like?
About 95% of employers, for one. Look, your appendix is inflamed, it will rupture in the next 4 minutes, but at least you're in the Emergency Room. Two doctors walk in your room. One looks like me. The other looks like Alana Brown. They say, in unison, "Rootology, you must choose which of us two shall perform your appendectomy." Who do you choose? Yeah, it is the same when you have to chose between a man and a women for the same job - it is the only time you have consider that hiring the one with the biggest tits might not be the best method.
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 5:42am) Official link: Wikipedia:Arbitration Committee Elections December 2008List or arbiters whose terms expire:1. Blnguyen2. Charles Matthews3. James F.4. Morven5. ThebainerExpiring arbiters who have said they will not seek re-election:(Please reply with others who have said as much, I'll update this top level post)1. Morven ( here) Expiring arbiters who have previously won re-election:(Please reply with others who have pulled this off, I'll update this top level post)1. ? Number of open seats (normal): 5, plus one extra open one since Paul August retired, for 6 total. Paul's spot is only good to December 2009, when he would have expired anyway. The others are currently set to be the normal 3 years. Geogre says here that JamesF is re-running but not sure where he got that information from.
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 4:16pm) QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:05am) Bish in any format of grammar has infinitely more clue than half the Arbitration Committee and it's founder COMBINED. Sadly, since she's also prone to speaking her mind clearly, I'm sure some/most useless trolls will see her as 1) an uppity woman; 2) an uppity editor; 3) clearly incompatible with being an Arb because she's willing to do the right things.
I'd vote for her in a heartbeat.
Me too. Ironically in the circumstances, I think she is human. Arbs in recent times have not appeared human. If she were to win, the arbcom would be being honest about the fact that some of them are illuminati reptilian humanoids. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) The only candidate other than Giano (can he be bothered to run again? - I doubt he will get the support he did previously; there is something of a whiff of the puritan about him, which is fine by me, but may have eroded some of the liberal wishy washy support) that I would vote for. Every knee jerk oppose would likely recruit two supporters. Last time, in protest at Jimbo's veto, I only voted the once. This time I will oppose as I feel appropriate.
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thekohser |
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 4:31pm) Assuming they're both doctors, I'd go with Alana...
I admire your thinking. But, I assure you, if we took a truly random sample of 1,000 world citizens and presented them with the exact same case study (I'm imagining at least a half-dozen pairwise control photo sorts, with Alana and me as the "ringer" test case), the large majority (dare I say, at least 800?) would not select Alana to perform their emergency, but routine, surgery. If you have $100,000 lying around, I think we could run this study across n=50 in each of 20 different countries. I'd be willing to wager up to $1,000 with "800" as the over/under, me taking the over. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Fri 29th August 2008, 4:48pm) QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 4:16pm) QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:05am) Bish in any format of grammar has infinitely more clue than half the Arbitration Committee and it's founder COMBINED. Sadly, since she's also prone to speaking her mind clearly, I'm sure some/most useless trolls will see her as 1) an uppity woman; 2) an uppity editor; 3) clearly incompatible with being an Arb because she's willing to do the right things.
I'd vote for her in a heartbeat.
Me too. Ironically in the circumstances, I think she is human. Arbs in recent times have not appeared human. If she were to win, the arbcom would be being honest about the fact that some of them are illuminati reptilian humanoids. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) The only candidate other than Giano (can he be bothered to run again? - I doubt he will get the support he did previously; there is something of a whiff of the puritan about him, which is fine by me, but may have eroded some of the liberal wishy washy support) that I would vote for. Every knee jerk oppose would likely recruit two supporters. Last time, in protest at Jimbo's veto, I only voted the once. This time I will oppose as I feel appropriate. Giano might run, and do better than before. The "anti-Giano" Cabal is not very powerful these days.
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MBisanz |
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QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Fri 29th August 2008, 1:29pm) QUOTE(Neil @ Fri 29th August 2008, 6:08am) Ryan Postlethwaite will be running, I believe.
Particularly after his RFB failed, Ryan has been getting more involved in the Mediation Committee, ramped up his attempts to be involved in making community proposals (such as the latest Betacommand one), and has been advocating various changes to how candidates are selected on the 2008 elections discussion page.
Yeah, Postlethwaite will be running. It is impossible to believe otherwise. If there were a public vote on his checkuser application where he got slaughtered he might not, but it is private so he will not know (and if he is approved, then definitely). I am pretty sure MBisanz will too, he has been pretty clearly powermongering. I am not sure who else. Kmweber, probably, although Kurt can be a realist, so maybe not. I would vote for Jehochman. Absolutely. He is not, as far as I can tell, anyone's bitch. But I would probably vote for Durova, so my opinion may not be reflective of anything. As I think I've said in at least two places now, I will not be running in the Arbcom elections. I have been doing a fair amount of template work and other gnome-like tasks and decided some time ago against running. Thanks for thinking of me though. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)
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Obesity |
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I taste as good as skinny feels.
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I've been asked to run for ArbCom, but I feel I do my best work as an armchair quarterback, criticizing others while I sit at home and get fat. I'm one of Teddy Roosevelt's "cold and timid souls who know neither victory or defeat." Plus... no one but a handful of smartasses and groupies would vote for me, so it would be little more than a minor sideshow like Endless Dan's candidacy last year. QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 29th August 2008, 7:37am) What do people think of Jehochman as an arb?
I'd vote for him in a second. Tough and clear-thinking people are rare but not impossible to find. The real question is... would he show up for work? That's the chief complaint I have about the current lot of layabouts.
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Rootology |
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My predictions for people who will run:
1. James F will run again and lose. The current stigma around sitting arbiters, and especially him for refusing to loosen his iron grip on IRC matters is going to be his downfall, combined with his inactivity in general. If inactivity killed Raul, who is infinitely more popular, active in general and powerful than James, James has zero chance of re-election.
2. Mbisanz. The easy choice, and would likely be a very active arbiter. Flip a coin if he wins. If he doesn't win this year, he will next year or the year after. Keep running, Matt. I have a feeling when it comes down he'd be one of the better arbs, in that he doesn't seem to tolerate bullshit now. Whether that is good or bad will depend on which side of a fight you're on. Seems to be willing to take on politically powerful stuff, so he could be a dark horse white knight.
Matt has corrected me--and I did see his post above! Like I told Swat on Meta a while back, did I mention I'm psychic? No? Maybe? OK, maybe I'm a crap psychic...
3. Jehochman. I think he will win, but it will be close, and he won't be one of the clear run-away winners. Another possible white knight, who seems to be uninterested in the real political power games.
4. Ryan Postlewaite would have a decent to lower chance of winning if he ran (which is way better than most people). He says here he won't run. But we'll see!
5. Moreschi--wouldn't win if he ran, but I can see him tossing his hat in. People would be all "redirect to [[Clown]]" over civility stuff, but he'd be an ass-kicking arbiter. Whether that is good or bad will depend on which side of a fight you're on.
6. WJBscribe. And I think he'll win. Not much to be said. He'll win.
7. Thebainer. Gut feeling he'll run again. Of the current arbs, he's probably the ONLY one with a full shot to win, since he keeps his head down and just works and doesn't visibly (that I've ever noticed) take part in stupid politics.
8. Charles Matthews. I don't know if he's sick of it yet, but I suspect as well Charles will run again, but I think too many people perceive him as a cabalist in the shadow of Mantanmoreland-Gerard-Weiss et al. It will kill his chances.
9. Swatjester. Might be a close win, but I think he'd get it. Too popular, too visible, in too many places, and many people view Swat as a good guy (I do, too, which I'm sure someone will flame him over). I don't think that stupid fight earlier from this earlier on RFAR will matter at all. Especially since the other guy--I can't even remember his name, demonstrating the lack of relevance--is blocked for legal threats.
10. AGK/Anthony: A long standing Clerk, I think he would be a near shoo-in.
11. Thatcher. I think Thatcher would win, if not as insanely overwhelmingly as Brad did, but close to that.
12. Bishonen. She would make a fiery, glorious, Wrath of God Bishzilla arb, who would clean up a lot of bullshit. Sadly, I think the residual fallout from the fall of Sidaway and his endless harassment of her will end up leading to her not winning. Too many people want to get back at Giano, her, and George for having the stones to stand up to the useless middle managers that think they run Wikipedia.
13. Kurt. I mean, c'mon. Kurt is like Nader. He's always in the running!
Incoming Arb class quick guesses today:
1. Thatcher 2. WJBscribe 3. Jehochman 4. Swatjester 5. Anthony
6. Mbisanz
This post has been edited by Rootology:
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:04pm)
Incoming Arb class quick guesses today:
1. Thatcher 2. WJBscribe 3. Jehochman 4. Swatjester 5. Anthony
6. Mbisanz
dark horse guesses? <edit> Damn, Wikipedia is awsomeThis post has been edited by Pumpkin Muffins:
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Rootology |
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QUOTE(One @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:47pm) How has SWATjester's status improved since last year? (And yes, I likewise suspect he'll run again). Gut feeling. QUOTE(Pumpkin Muffins @ Fri 29th August 2008, 9:05pm) dark horse guesses? <edit> Damn, Wikipedia is awsomeEnglish is fun. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
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wikiwhistle |
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Sat 30th August 2008, 5:22am) QUOTE(One @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:47pm) How has SWATjester's status improved since last year? (And yes, I likewise suspect he'll run again). Gut feeling. I've see how he acted on 'simple' wikipedia (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) He was somewhat heavy handed in his approach. QUOTE(Pumpkin Muffins @ Sat 30th August 2008, 5:05am) QUOTE(Rootology @ Fri 29th August 2008, 8:04pm)
Incoming Arb class quick guesses today:
1. Thatcher 2. WJBscribe 3. Jehochman 4. Swatjester 5. Anthony
6. Mbisanz
dark horse guesses? <edit> Damn, Wikipedia is awsomeI've missed something- has MBianz said he won't stand?
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SomeRandomAdmin |
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Yes Jehochman AGK
Probably Yes Thatcher Bishzilla Giano
Not sure WJB
Not in a million years Swatjester
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Pumpkin Muffins |
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 30th August 2008, 9:38am) Swatjester is a gung-ho fascist with an over-inflated opinion of his own competence. He has even less capacity for finesse or subtlety than I do, and would be even more of a disaster as an arbitrator than he has been as an admin and OTRS volunteer. And he's a law student but doesn't even understand the definition of the word 'hypocrite', even when it's explained to him. So much for lawyers using language as thier tool. Oh well, it doesn't matter, his family is rich, he'll never have to worry about anything.
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Proabivouac |
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Bane of all wikiland
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 30th August 2008, 4:38pm) Thatcher got mad at me for revealing the RickK/Zoe coherence on WR and then got madder at me for refusing to tell him the common password. He doesn't get that people you treat like shit are not going to bend over backwards to help you. As far as I can tell he's still addicted to the kool-aid.
It may be fair to say that Thatcher has swallowed the kool-aid, however, since the Mantanmoreland case, it seems that he's started at least to question some of its ingredients. I'm aware that he regularly reads the Wikipedia Review, for example. Thatcher is not corrupt and, I believe, tries to be fair, which is more than one can say for many or most current Arbitrators. Ideally, the Committee would be abolished, the sooner, the bettter, but supposing it's still around, I'm inclined to support him.
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Alex |
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 30th August 2008, 9:31pm) QUOTE(LessHorrid vanU @ Sat 30th August 2008, 8:53pm) He could be (I'm not saying he is, just a hypothetical here) the very best candidate that WP could ever hope to field; fearless, fair, polite and astute... but there is no way I could ever put a tick in a box next to the name "Thatcher". An instance of a real life bias effecting a WP decision, and I am unable to overcome it.
What is it that makes you unable to tick? Personally, I found Thatcher conceded too much to the "fringe" side of a debate I was in, he also doesn't seem very friendly but that's just what I personally like in people. I agree that he's very unfriendly. I think LHVU is referring to him sharing the name with a famous British politician, who was big in the 1980s.
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wikiwhistle |
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QUOTE(One @ Sat 30th August 2008, 11:01pm) QUOTE(maggot3 @ Sat 30th August 2008, 8:41pm) Yes, I have a similar problem as LHvU, actually.
I didn't understand it when LHvU said it either. Is this a conflict of interest thing (which would make you a saint among Wikipedians for abstaining), or is it a symbolic protest of ArbCom itself? I think they just mean they would find it hard to tick a box and vote for "Thatcher" (i.e. Margaret Thatcher (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) ) It would be like if there was an admin called Regan or Clinton, or whatever, and those political figures were your particular figures of hatred for years. But I thing LessH was joking about being unable to vote for that reason. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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Vicky |
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QUOTE(One @ Sat 30th August 2008, 11:01pm) I didn't understand it when LHvU said it either. Is this a conflict of interest thing (which would make you a saint among Wikipedians for abstaining), or is it a symbolic protest of ArbCom itself?
No, it's just that they can't bring themselves to vote for someone called Thatcher because they detest Margaret Thatcher.
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Dzonatas |
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QUOTE(Taxwoman @ Sat 30th August 2008, 11:15am) QUOTE(Dzonatas @ Sat 30th August 2008, 4:56pm) Thatcher is not the best pick in my opinion.
There are a good few people a lot worse than Thatcher. (I hope that's not damning with faint praise.) I'm still nominating Allison, Lar, and SlimVirgin.
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Dzonatas |
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 30th August 2008, 3:35pm) QUOTE(Dzonatas @ Sat 30th August 2008, 11:32pm)
I'm still nominating Allison, Lar, and SlimVirgin.
I would love Alison to run but I don't thing she'd be up for it. If SV wanted to be an Arb I think she would've tried by now. If SV doesn't run, then Allison and Lar need not apply either. It would only be worthwhile if all of them go for it.
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QUOTE(Dzonatas @ Sun 31st August 2008, 9:26am) QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 30th August 2008, 3:35pm) QUOTE(Dzonatas @ Sat 30th August 2008, 11:32pm)
I'm still nominating Allison, Lar, and SlimVirgin.
I would love Alison to run but I don't thing she'd be up for it. If SV wanted to be an Arb I think she would've tried by now. If SV doesn't run, then Allison and Lar need not apply either. It would only be worthwhile if all of them go for it. And all got in. That would be a laugh.
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QUOTE(Crestatus @ Sun 31st August 2008, 9:22pm) Trust me; not this guy. If there was a god of individuality, it would be him. Heck, he does believe he's a god. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) If there is any project which is in need of a messiah to lead the project to the promised land it is Wikipedia. And, in a project such as Wikipedia it may actually be possible for a messianic person to reform Wikipedia. ...That is if Jimbo does not have him crucified first.
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QUOTE(everyking @ Sun 31st August 2008, 9:50pm) QUOTE(One @ Sat 30th August 2008, 9:01pm) I think Thatcher is the best name listed so far. He'd be a good sock puppet sniffer, I think. He would be interested in the sockpuppet evidence against FeloniousMonk, for example.
Some people here probably dislike him because his name comes up so often when trying to use Tor, but I count that as a virtue. The extension should be tweaked for en.wp, so that Tor is hard blocked by default. Until then, Thatcher's getting it covered one IP at a time.
I've come to see that Thatcher is fair in his own way, but he goes along with traditional ArbCom thinking, which is precisely the opposite of what is needed. I think that's a good assessment. Most likely he's reading this thread and will take it to heart. QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 30th August 2008, 1:56pm) Margaret Thatcher has dementia now of course.
What you mean, "now"? QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 30th August 2008, 3:35pm) If SV wanted to be an Arb I think she would've tried by now.
I think she prefers to act through surrogates. Will Beback would have been ideal for her purposes, but he has failed twice. Despite his best efforts, his inherent creepiness is hard to mask.
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Vicky |
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QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 1st September 2008, 3:34pm) QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 30th August 2008, 1:56pm) Margaret Thatcher has dementia now of course.
What you mean, "now"? Is that another cryptic LaRouche reference?
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Wizardman |
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QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Mon 1st September 2008, 12:19am) QUOTE(Crestatus @ Sun 31st August 2008, 7:53pm) Then lets hope someone exciting goes in to change it. I know one person I've talked to has said he's think about putting his name in; if he does, it will cause more panic among the kabal than an affectionate porcupine in a nudist colony.
With three year terms, regardless of who gets elected there is a high degree of probability he will eventually "go native", go along with the majority, and enjoy his new unanswerable power. Absolute power corrupts. In theory you think it would be the opposite. With absolute power and a real long term, arbcom users could become radically individualist and vote however they feel. (After all, Ted Kennedy's never gonna vote pro-life even if Americans lean more that way) In practice though, it's obvious that it's starts to shape as you say. The Warren court of the 60s, Souter and Kennedy's shifts toward more liberal tendencies, it's the dynamic of a group. ArbCom is certainly not the only group body that has an issue like that, far from it. I guess that's why James' edit summary intrigued me. If you feel otherwise, then make a proposal stating such. Maybe there's something going on that called for unanimity, which is why he didn't. That's just me though, thinking out loud. All I can say is these elections will be very intriguing. There's no one obvious top contender like last year.
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QUOTE(Alex @ Mon 1st September 2008, 10:55pm) QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Mon 1st September 2008, 5:19am) With three year terms, regardless of who gets elected there is a high degree of probability he will eventually "go native", go along with the majority, and enjoy his new unanswerable power. Absolute power corrupts.
You're right. Arbitrators are the most powerful users on the project. They are indeed unanswerable to anyone, and by default are right. Indeed. I quote directly from Jimbo's talk page today: "I would personally desysop any admin or group of admins seeking to defy the ArbCom, because the ArbCom is a valid part of our longstanding traditions."
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Viridae |
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QUOTE(maiawatatos @ Tue 2nd September 2008, 12:09pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Mon 1st September 2008, 10:55pm) QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Mon 1st September 2008, 5:19am) With three year terms, regardless of who gets elected there is a high degree of probability he will eventually "go native", go along with the majority, and enjoy his new unanswerable power. Absolute power corrupts.
You're right. Arbitrators are the most powerful users on the project. They are indeed unanswerable to anyone, and by default are right. Indeed. I quote directly from Jimbo's talk page today: "I would personally desysop any admin or group of admins seeking to defy the ArbCom, because the ArbCom is a valid part of our longstanding traditions." He can't get everyone. if there is enough momentum enwp could oust arbcom easily enough - either by completely ignoring it or simply deleting it.
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House of Cards |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 2nd September 2008, 4:00pm) All those admins and editors in good standing who have had enough of Jimbo and have had enough of the do-nothing ArbCom, I strongly encourage that NOW IS THE TIME to put it to the test. Go ahead, get yourself banned by Jimbo. At some point it will become a publicity nightmare, he will lose (big time), and you can all get your bits back, or just start over with a new account and probably have them back in a few months' time.
JUST DO IT !
It will only be a publicity nightmare for those actively following developments on WP. Those passive consumers who simply come along to use WP as their source of knowledge will not notice a thing. Most Soviet plebs were unaware of the officers' purges - why would this be any different?
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House of Cards |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 2nd September 2008, 8:29pm) Yeah, just like the Essjay thing never rose to the level of "publicity nightmare". I mean, it never got legs outside of the usual "WP following" media sources, did it? But how many of casual readers (and to some extent, contributors) of WP even know about it? I didn't until about a year after the fact, and that was only when I was actively looking for any skeletons in WP's cupboard.
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I've been hoping for a while that Jehochman would have a go at it. I'd also be likely to support Alanyst, Lar, and Cool Hand Luke, none of whom I believe have yet been mentioned in this thread (these are just people I'm hoping will run, though, not people who I believe will). It's also possible that I'm overlooking some unsavoury aspect to their histories, but hopefully an Arb Comm candidacy would bring such an aspect to the surface and allow me to revise my opinion.
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Rootology |
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QUOTE(Taxwoman @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 9:39am) QUOTE(One @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 4:58pm) Of all people who could probably win, I think Lar would be one of my top choices. I reckon he'd take a beating for posting here, but he's already a highly trusted user, and I suspect the ArbCom will vindicate him.
Isn't there a view that a steward shouldn't be on ArbCom? Not that I know of, but Stewards are prohibited by Steward policies (which trump local policies, even Jimmy policies--Jimmy is a slave to the Foundation as he has no legal business ownership claim to it) from using Steward powers on their "home" wiki. Lar can never perform Steward functions to my knowledge on en.wikipedia.org, but can anywhere else. Which does bring up an interesting question of Jimmy is tolerated to use his Steward powers on en.wikipedia, which is clearly his home wiki.
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 11:54am) Lar can never perform Steward functions to my knowledge on en.wikipedia.org, but can anywhere else. The policy says, "Stewards should not change rights on the projects which they are primarily active with their steward tools, unless the subject requested it themselves. It is better to leave such cases to neutral stewards. This also applies to members of local arbitration committees." This rule doesn't not appear to be taken very seriously; Lar himself has been known to ignore it a few times.
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QUOTE(House of Cards @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 4:22am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 2nd September 2008, 8:29pm) Yeah, just like the Essjay thing never rose to the level of "publicity nightmare". I mean, it never got legs outside of the usual "WP following" media sources, did it? But how many of casual readers (and to some extent, contributors) of WP even know about it? I didn't until about a year after the fact, and that was only when I was actively looking for any skeletons in WP's cupboard. A recent survey demonstrated that 56.4% of casual readers of Wikipedia were able to identify as True that "A college dropout once portrayed himself on Wikipedia as a college professor, while rising to the rank of Administrator on the site". A full 7.9% were able to identify him by name as either "Essjay" or as "Ryan Jordan". Among regular contributors to the encyclopedia, 94.1% identified the statement as "True", and 61.4% were able to name the perpetrator. This was a proprietary study, though, so I'm not at liberty to release the raw data, or the study sponsor to you. Additional note: this information, while a complete and utter fabrication, is no less credible than your survey that included one data point. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) Greg
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QUOTE(House of Cards @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 3:22am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 2nd September 2008, 8:29pm) Yeah, just like the Essjay thing never rose to the level of "publicity nightmare". I mean, it never got legs outside of the usual "WP following" media sources, did it? But how many of casual readers (and to some extent, contributors) of WP even know about it? I didn't until about a year after the fact, and that was only when I was actively looking for any skeletons in WP's cupboard. I was a quite "casual" reader/contributer of WP (certainly by SV standards) when the Essjay scandal occurred. I found out about it first "on-wiki", which led me to seek further information "off-wiki", including this site (Shock! Horror!). I wasn't "actively looking for any skeletons in WP's cupboard", either. Once I realized the implications of the scandal (almost instantly), I also realized I had no further business on WP.
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Wikipedia:The Sump of All Human Knowledge
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 7:54pm) A recent survey demonstrated that 56.4% of casual readers of Wikipedia were able to identify as True that "A college dropout once portrayed himself on Wikipedia as a college professor, while rising to the rank of Administrator on the site". A full 7.9% were able to identify him by name as either "Essjay" or as "Ryan Jordan". Among regular contributors to the encyclopedia, 94.1% identified the statement as "True", and 61.4% were able to name the perpetrator. This was a proprietary study, though, so I'm not at liberty to release the raw data, or the study sponsor to you. Additional note: this information, while a complete and utter fabrication, is no less credible than your survey that included one data point. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) Greg Wow. Sorry but without more information, your study is worthless. Methodology? Sample size? Definition of casual? Credibility of statisticians? What were the control questions? And leaving all that aside. If I ask a sample is statement x true or false, and they have no idea, then statistically 50% will guess true and 50% false. So that 56% said true is totally unremarkable. Your 7.9% I'd suspect are the wikipedia regulars who were caught up in the sampling. Truly unremarkable if the survey is competent at all.
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dogbiscuit |
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Could you run through Verifiability not Truth once more?
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QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th September 2008, 10:41am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 7:54pm) A recent survey demonstrated that 56.4% of casual readers of Wikipedia were able to identify as True that "A college dropout once portrayed himself on Wikipedia as a college professor, while rising to the rank of Administrator on the site". A full 7.9% were able to identify him by name as either "Essjay" or as "Ryan Jordan". Among regular contributors to the encyclopedia, 94.1% identified the statement as "True", and 61.4% were able to name the perpetrator. This was a proprietary study, though, so I'm not at liberty to release the raw data, or the study sponsor to you. Additional note: this information, while a complete and utter fabrication, is no less credible than your survey that included one data point. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) Greg Wow. Sorry but without more information, your study is worthless. Methodology? Sample size? Definition of casual? Credibility of statisticians? What were the control questions? And leaving all that aside. If I ask a sample is statement x true or false, and they have no idea, then statistically 50% will guess true and 50% false. So that 56% said true is totally unremarkable. Your 7.9% I'd suspect are the wikipedia regulars who were caught up in the sampling. Truly unremarkable if the survey is competent at all. You did read what he wrote didn't you? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)
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Giggy |
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QUOTE(Cedric @ Thu 4th September 2008, 5:50am) QUOTE(House of Cards @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 3:22am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 2nd September 2008, 8:29pm) Yeah, just like the Essjay thing never rose to the level of "publicity nightmare". I mean, it never got legs outside of the usual "WP following" media sources, did it? But how many of casual readers (and to some extent, contributors) of WP even know about it? I didn't until about a year after the fact, and that was only when I was actively looking for any skeletons in WP's cupboard. I was a quite "casual" reader/contributer of WP (certainly by SV standards) when the Essjay scandal occurred. I found out about it first "on-wiki", which led me to seek further information "off-wiki", including this site (Shock! Horror!). I wasn't "actively looking for any skeletons in WP's cupboard", either. Once I realized the implications of the scandal (almost instantly), I also realized I had no further business on WP. Well said, at that.
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gomi |
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QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Thu 4th September 2008, 2:57am) QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Thu 4th September 2008, 10:41am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 3rd September 2008, 7:54pm) A recent survey demonstrated that 56.4% of casual readers of Wikipedia were able to identify as True that "A college dropout once portrayed himself on Wikipedia as a college professor, ... Additional note: this information, while a complete and utter fabrication, is no less credible than your survey that included one data point.
Wow. Sorry but without more information, your study is worthless..... You did read what he wrote didn't you? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) Heh. Clearly not. I suppose this is mmu;dr -- mind made up; didn't read.
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KStreetSlave |
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 4th September 2008, 8:26pm) QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Thu 4th September 2008, 7:06pm) New York Brad has objected on the grounds that shorting terms would be: "perceived infringements on judicial independence". ... well, of course, that is the reason for the proposed change. Rather than Arbcom being unanswerable their actions should be supported by the community. Another wannabee judge slumming as an Arbitrator? Making you....what? Robert Bork?
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Newyorkbrad |
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Fri 5th September 2008, 12:26am) QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Thu 4th September 2008, 7:06pm) New York Brad has objected on the grounds that shorting terms would be: "perceived infringements on judicial independence". ... well, of course, that is the reason for the proposed change. Rather than Arbcom being unanswerable their actions should be supported by the community. Another wannabee judge slumming as an Arbitrator? I'm not sure whom the word "another" in that comment refers to (nor am I sure that it would productive for me to ask). In real life I've never even considered seeking a judgeship, but my work as a WP arbitrator has given me some valuable insights into how real-world judges -- particularly judges of multi-judge courts -- go about deciding cases. Wikipedia arbitration is not a truly "judicial" function -- even making the loose analogy invites allegations of aggrandizement, though I'm hardly the first to do so -- but there are certainly parallels between the models (compare the last principle in RfAr/Mantanmoreland).
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everyking |
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QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Fri 5th September 2008, 1:58am) QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Fri 5th September 2008, 12:26am) QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Thu 4th September 2008, 7:06pm) New York Brad has objected on the grounds that shorting terms would be: "perceived infringements on judicial independence". ... well, of course, that is the reason for the proposed change. Rather than Arbcom being unanswerable their actions should be supported by the community. Another wannabee judge slumming as an Arbitrator? I'm not sure whom the word "another" in that comment refers to (nor am I sure that it would productive for me to ask). In real life I've never even considered seeking a judgeship, but my work as a WP arbitrator has given me some valuable insights into how real-world judges -- particularly judges of multi-judge courts -- go about deciding cases. Wikipedia arbitration is not a truly "judicial" function -- even making the loose analogy invites allegations of aggrandizement, though I'm hardly the first to do so -- but there are certainly parallels between the models (compare the last principle in RfAr/Mantanmoreland). Brad, with all due respect, I think you should be wary of seeing things from your standpoint as an arbitrator rather than from the standpoint of the community. You are supporting long terms and "judicial independence", things that lead to a distant relationship between the ArbCom and the community and a tendency on the part of the ArbCom to act without consideration for the community's wishes. The ArbCom functions as an elite center of power that does its decision-making in secret and often produces rulings that are deeply unsatisfying to the community. From my perspective as a member of the community, that is all crystal clear and severely problematic.
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ThurstonHowell3rd |
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QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Thu 4th September 2008, 5:52pm) QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Fri 5th September 2008, 12:06am) New York Brad has objected on the grounds that shorting terms would be: "perceived infringements on judicial independence". ... well, of course, that is the reason for the proposed change. Rather than Arbcom being unanswerable, their actions should be supported by the community.
I anticipated and addressed this objection in my colloquy on-wiki with Everyking, q.v. There would seem to be a conflict of interest for a sitting Arbcom member to be arguing against the reduction in his own term of service.
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Viridae |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Fri 5th September 2008, 12:31pm) QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Thu 4th September 2008, 5:52pm) QUOTE(ThurstonHowell3rd @ Fri 5th September 2008, 12:06am) New York Brad has objected on the grounds that shorting terms would be: "perceived infringements on judicial independence". ... well, of course, that is the reason for the proposed change. Rather than Arbcom being unanswerable, their actions should be supported by the community.
I anticipated and addressed this objection in my colloquy on-wiki with Everyking, q.v. There would seem to be a conflict of interest for a sitting Arbcom member to be arguing against the reduction in his own term of service. They can argue all they like - indeed its useful to know what they think in the matter. Its only a conflict of interest if they make the decision.
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Jehochman |
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TheKohser, my business stays successful because I have a team of project managers and developers who handle most routine client tasks. I sit here waiting for the phone to ring, to take care of new clients, or help existing clients. High availability differentiates me from competitors who are hard to reach. While waiting for those calls, I answer email, do the work I need to do, and edit Wikipedia during the spare cycles. Many of my peers do a lot of blogging. I do Wikipedia instead.
As for the legal mind, I did attend a year at Columbia Law School, but quit because I didn't like it. I occasionally serve as an expert witness, so I have had a bit of courtroom and deposition experience.
This post has been edited by Jehochman:
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thekohser |
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QUOTE(Jehochman @ Tue 23rd September 2008, 12:26pm) TheKohser, my business stays successful because I have a team of project managers and developers who handle most routine client tasks. I sit here waiting for the phone to ring, to take care of new clients, or help existing clients. High availability differentiates me from competitors who are hard to reach. While waiting for those calls, I answer email, do the work I need to do, and edit Wikipedia during the spare cycles. Many of my peers do a lot of blogging. I do Wikipedia instead.
As for the legal mind, I did attend a year at Columbia Law School, but quit because I didn't like it. I occasionally serve as an expert witness, so I have had a bit of courtroom and deposition experience.
Took you long enough to answer. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)
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Jehochman |
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Doh! I wasn't paying attention.
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Sarcasticidealist |
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Head exploded.
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If we're still tracking candidates, SirFozzie's announced (and has earned an immediate rebuke from Giano, who in turn was reprimanded by Tznkai...but I guess that's the way the whole durned Wikipedia comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself...) Update: Boy am I behind the times: here's the comprehensive who's who of confirmed and potential candidates. This post has been edited by sarcasticidealist:
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Sarcasticidealist |
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Head exploded.
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QUOTE(One @ Thu 2nd October 2008, 4:50pm) How did he make this list? Anything is "possible," right? Does that mean these are people MBisanz would not be surprised about. Kmweber? And "likely" according to what source? From what I can tell, the confirmeds are actually confirmed (same with the "definitely nots"). The rest does seem to be somewhat speculative. QUOTE And what the hell is this one editorial comment doing here? Unless I'm mistaken (which I may well be), Ms. De Burgh is actually Giano, and the candidacy there is a joke of some kind. QUOTE Let me put up some early support for the Fat Man. The fat man has denied on numerous occasions that he will run, and I see no reason to doubt him (indeed, on anything!).
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everyking |
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QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 1:33am) QUOTE(everyking @ Thu 2nd October 2008, 5:30pm) I also note that "Bishzilla" is somehow an administrator, which means that Bishonen is operating multiple admin accounts, Nope - Bishonen isn't an admin. From what I can tell, Bishzilla's the main account. Bishonen is the main account, and is the one that communicates like a normal human being. "Bishzilla" was created so that Bishonen could write in a comically threatening tone about eating other editors for breakfast, burning them alive, and so on. Again, not an acceptable candidacy.
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Pumpkin Muffins |
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QUOTE(everyking @ Thu 2nd October 2008, 5:30pm) MBisanz's list of candidates (actual and likely) looks quite good (excluding Forrester, who has only a snowball's chance at re-election). This election is looking more promising than any past election. Just imagine if my proposal for all open seats had gone through--we'd be looking at something like a revolution! But seven seats (that's right, isn't it?), if they all go to good candidates, will be sufficient for major change.
I note that "Bishzilla", a joke alternate account of Bishonen, is included in the list. This should not be considered a serious candidacy and should not be allowed. I also note that "Bishzilla" is somehow an administrator, which means that Bishonen is operating multiple admin accounts, and my understanding is that multiple admin accounts aren't allowed.
Bishonen had the admin bit transferred to Bishzilla. In the 'confirmed running' section, James Forrester is the most dangerous.
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Milton Roe |
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Known alias of J. Random Troll
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QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 2nd October 2008, 5:34pm) QUOTE(everyking @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 1:30am) I note that "Bishzilla", a joke alternate account of Bishonen, is included in the list. This should not be considered a serious candidacy and should not be allowed. I also note that "Bishzilla" is somehow an administrator, which means that Bishonen is operating multiple admin accounts, and my understanding is that multiple admin accounts aren't allowed.
Actually, only Bishzilla has admin rights. And considering the Trogdorian/Godzilla-ish way in which WP is administrated, that's probably appropriate. Baniate and burniate. Don't think too hard. (IMG: http://i288.photobucket.com/albums/ll191/Shrlocc/Bishzilla_blink.gif)
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Milton Roe |
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Known alias of J. Random Troll
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QUOTE(everyking @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 12:36am) Bishonen is the main account, and is the one that communicates like a normal human being. "Bishzilla" was created so that Bishonen could write in a comically threatening tone about eating other editors for breakfast, burning them alive, and so on. Again, not an acceptable candidacy.
Why not? It's perfectly honest, normal Wikipedian admin behavior. Or must you have children running this place childishly AND pretend to be adults, too? And maybe they want medals, barnstars, and (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif)
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Alison |
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Skinny Cow!
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QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Thu 2nd October 2008, 3:50pm) If we're still tracking candidates, SirFozzie's announced (and has earned an immediate rebuke from Giano, who in turn was reprimanded by Tznkai...but I guess that's the way the whole durned Wikipedia comedy keeps perpetuatin' itself...) Update: Boy am I behind the times: here's the comprehensive who's who of confirmed and potential candidates. I've had a few pmails on all this and peeps are asking if I'm going to run for ArbCom. Answer: no (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/happy.gif)
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Piperdown |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 3:38am) I just don't have the spare time necessary to give the position the attention it deserves.
you'd fit right in with the incumbents then... Arbcom as it is, is irrelevant. It's an opaque roadblock put up by a delusionally self-important Jimbo Squad of part-time lightweights. The WP community abides. Time and time again the community has to come back after a flaccid, paralyzed, impotent arbcom fails to do anything that provides any service to wikpedia and do the right thing. Arbcom - ignore it. It's ignoring you.
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Proabivouac |
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Bane of all wikiland
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QUOTE(everyking @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 6:14am) I already proposed that on WP, and my proposal was shot down. "Shot down" by what, four people? What we really need here isn't a discussion, but a petition. Any threaded discussion will be manipulated by people with an interest in sabotaging or foreclosing it. QUOTE(Everyking) We don't need "institutional memory"; it has never been demonstrated that this has helped anything
Couldn't agree more. QUOTE(Mbisanz) Nah, the idea idea is patently unfair to people like NYB, Flo, Jpgordon, and Kirill, among others who have done excellent jobs as arbitrators and should not be forced to re-run before their term is up.
This from people who emphasize that Wikipedia doesn't do fairness and isn't a system of law! Who cares if it's "fair" to the arbitrators? Most of them don't care if they're fair to others. Some of them should be happy they're not blocked or banned. (p.s. NewYorkBrad would win reelection anyhow.) I'd also like to clarify: whether the "tranche" system is inherently flawed or not is utterly beside the point. Volunteers and critics alike have lost confidence in this Arbitration Committee. What is most immediately needed is not any particular policy change, but a motion of no confidence.
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Cla68 |
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QUOTE(everyking @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 6:14am) QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 6:58am) As it is, I think the most important thing to ask here is that each member of the committee stand for reelection this December, regardless of their "tranches." The Arbitration Committee has lost the confidence of Wikipedia's volunteers and critics alike. These terms were set by someone and can be reset; there is nothing sacred about them. Anyone who wants real reform should start there.
I already proposed that on WP, and my proposal was shot down. Can't we add some proposals for vote onto the ArbCom election, kind of like they do in the US (I don't know if they do this elsewhere or not) in which they add bond issues and new laws to election ballots for people to vote on? If there isn't anything saying that we can't do this, then I think we should do it during this election- give people some ArbCom reform proposals to vote on, such as term reductions, etc.
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Peter Damian |
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I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
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QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 1:53am) QUOTE(everyking @ Fri 3rd October 2008, 12:36am) Bishonen is the main account, and is the one that communicates like a normal human being. "Bishzilla" was created so that Bishonen could write in a comically threatening tone about eating other editors for breakfast, burning them alive, and so on. Again, not an acceptable candidacy.
Her candidacy would be far stronger if she ran under the Bishonen account. Correct. Bishonen is incredibly good, but as you imply, joking need to be set aside in matters such as this. Especially in Wikipedia of course, which lacks any noticeable sense of humour. [edit] I note the following extraordinary comment on Giano's talk page by Scribe. "It is this use of blocks to stifle criticism that troubles me most about "civility blocks". " Since when has the use of blocks as criticism - as well as the use of the oversight/deletion function, on which I still have some interesting unpublished emails from Scribe - every troubled this man? QUOTE (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)h please. I note the additional comment in the block log: "Will unblock upon user's commitement to refactor/remove offending statements". I am sorry but [[User talk:SirFozzie#Your Arbcom Manifesto]] contains no comment so terrible that a user must be blocked should they refuse it. It is this use of blocks to stifle criticism that troubles me most about "civility blocks". Giano's comment to SirFozzie are harshly worded but it is content (not the contributor) that is described as "bolox" and Giano makes it clear why he believes the content to be inaccurate. I find it particularly worrying when we are talking about a statement of candidature for approaching ArbCom elections - are we really saying that if someone feels such a statement is misleading, they cannot call it rubbish due to our civility policies? Oh, what an interesting election that would prove to be... <strong style="font-variant:small-caps">[[User:WJBscribe|WJBscribe]] [[User talk:WJBscribe|(talk)]]</strong> 23:08, 2 October 2008 (UTC) http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=242611418 This post has been edited by Peter Damian:
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KamrynMatika |
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MBisanz has compiled a list of all the people who are confirmed and likely to run: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:MBisanz/ACE2008Confirmed: Aaron Brenneman Bishzilla Coren Hersfold Jdforrester Jehochman SirFozzie Wizardman Likely: Carcharoth Catherine de Burgh Fish and karate Gwen Gale Rlevse The Fat Man Who Never Came Back WJBscribe Nice to see that J D "FeloniousMonk's contributions are worth more than Cla68's" Forrester is going to be in the running. I never had a chance to oppose him with a nasty comment before.
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UseOnceAndDestroy |
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QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:09pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:28pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:05pm) It's a pretty poor selection this year, I must say.
The individuals in the race don't matter. Whoever is hand-picked for the job, they'll still be Jimbo's pet chimps. Arbcom elections are a pretend vote for a pretend court. Last time Jimbo appointed someone was in February 2007, when he appointed Mackensen to replace Dmcdevit, and Essjay as an extra. Mackensen had previously been on ArbCom, and resigned in good standing. Prior to that, was September 2005. I doubt he'll be doing it again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...tions#Elections"Since then, Arbitrators have been appointed based on the results of advisory elections held annually. Jimbo does not consider himself bound by the results of the elections, but generally has appointed Arbitrators from among the candidates with the highest percentage of positive votes (Jimmy has stated he will not appoint someone having under 50% support)." Are you saying that page is inaccurate?
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everyking |
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QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:21pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:09pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:28pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:05pm) It's a pretty poor selection this year, I must say.
The individuals in the race don't matter. Whoever is hand-picked for the job, they'll still be Jimbo's pet chimps. Arbcom elections are a pretend vote for a pretend court. Last time Jimbo appointed someone was in February 2007, when he appointed Mackensen to replace Dmcdevit, and Essjay as an extra. Mackensen had previously been on ArbCom, and resigned in good standing. Prior to that, was September 2005. I doubt he'll be doing it again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...tions#Elections"Since then, Arbitrators have been appointed based on the results of advisory elections held annually. Jimbo does not consider himself bound by the results of the elections, but generally has appointed Arbitrators from among the candidates with the highest percentage of positive votes (Jimmy has stated he will not appoint someone having under 50% support)." Are you saying that page is inaccurate? If Jimbo's appointments accurately reflect the results of the election, then those appointed arbitrators are not automatically "Jimbo's pet chimps".
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UseOnceAndDestroy |
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QUOTE(everyking @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:25pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:21pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:09pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:28pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:05pm) It's a pretty poor selection this year, I must say.
The individuals in the race don't matter. Whoever is hand-picked for the job, they'll still be Jimbo's pet chimps. Arbcom elections are a pretend vote for a pretend court. Last time Jimbo appointed someone was in February 2007, when he appointed Mackensen to replace Dmcdevit, and Essjay as an extra. Mackensen had previously been on ArbCom, and resigned in good standing. Prior to that, was September 2005. I doubt he'll be doing it again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...tions#Elections"Since then, Arbitrators have been appointed based on the results of advisory elections held annually. Jimbo does not consider himself bound by the results of the elections, but generally has appointed Arbitrators from among the candidates with the highest percentage of positive votes (Jimmy has stated he will not appoint someone having under 50% support)." Are you saying that page is inaccurate? If Jimbo's appointments accurately reflect the results of the election, then those appointed arbitrators are not automatically "Jimbo's pet chimps". Sure they are. Anyone who might actually want to rock the wikiboat would be excluded. "Arbcom" is just another map in the game of wikipedia. It has a symbolic role for the serfs, but its actual role is extremely limited. It's composition is irrelevant - any random group of labourers will be as effective as any other.
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everyking |
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QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:44pm) QUOTE(everyking @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:25pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:21pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 6:09pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:28pm) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 5:05pm) It's a pretty poor selection this year, I must say.
The individuals in the race don't matter. Whoever is hand-picked for the job, they'll still be Jimbo's pet chimps. Arbcom elections are a pretend vote for a pretend court. Last time Jimbo appointed someone was in February 2007, when he appointed Mackensen to replace Dmcdevit, and Essjay as an extra. Mackensen had previously been on ArbCom, and resigned in good standing. Prior to that, was September 2005. I doubt he'll be doing it again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Arb...tions#Elections"Since then, Arbitrators have been appointed based on the results of advisory elections held annually. Jimbo does not consider himself bound by the results of the elections, but generally has appointed Arbitrators from among the candidates with the highest percentage of positive votes (Jimmy has stated he will not appoint someone having under 50% support)." Are you saying that page is inaccurate? If Jimbo's appointments accurately reflect the results of the election, then those appointed arbitrators are not automatically "Jimbo's pet chimps". Sure they are. Anyone who might actually want to rock the wikiboat would be excluded. "Arbcom" is just another map in the game of wikipedia. It has a symbolic role for the serfs, but its actual role is extremely limited. It's composition is irrelevant - any random group of labourers will be as effective as any other. While I abhor Jimbo's insistence on appointing arbitrators himself, there is no reason to think he would deliberately skip over a dissenting candidate who was appropriately placed on the results list, even if he might want to. The furthest he has gone in the past is to expand the ArbCom to justify including loyalists further down the list. Furthermore, realistically speaking, he couldn't exclude a dissenting candidate if the candidate was appropriately placed--it would be disastrous for Jimbo's political standing in the community. Nor does it make any sense to suggest that a dissenting candidate would transform to become a "pet chimp" simply because Jimbo made the formal appointment in recognition of the community's mandate. To suggest that the composition of the ArbCom is irrelevant is simply ludicrous--in the context of Wikipolitics, nothing is more important than the composition of the ArbCom. It's only irrelevant if you think Wikipedia itself is irrelevant, and therefore whatever future direction the project takes is inconsequential. This post has been edited by everyking:
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Sarcasticidealist |
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Head exploded.
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I agree with your entire first paragraph. I have a couple of quibbles with the second. QUOTE(everyking @ Thu 16th October 2008, 12:07pm) To suggest that the composition of the ArbCom is irrelevant is simply ludicrous--in the context of Wikipolitics, nothing is more important than the composition of the ArbCom. I would argue that the behaviour of the WMF Board is more important, but this depends on your definition of Wikipolitics (though even under a narrow definition, I'd argue that the behaviour of the WMF Board ought to be more important than the composition of Arb Comm). QUOTE It's only irrelevant if you think Wikipedia itself is irrelevant, and therefore whatever future direction the project takes is inconsequential. It's quite possible to believe, as I think many do here, that Wikipedia is relevant but that Wikipolitics, even broadly-defined, are not. I think that's the view of the faction that believes that Wikipedia is beyond hope, but that it's too harmful to be ignored.
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Alex |
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QUOTE(Shalom @ Fri 17th October 2008, 2:07am) Re: Anyone who might rock the wikiboat...
Jimbo said if anyone retired mid-year this year, he would replace them from someone who got at least 50% in the 2007 election. Jimbo didn't keep his word. (Is anyone surprised?) Newyorkbrad retired and UninvitedCompany lapsed into real life, but Jimbo left their seats vacant until NYB returned and UC formally resigned. Anyway, he said anyone who got 50%, and he explicitly included Giano in that list.
Where did he say this? Paul August also resigned, remember. NYB was gone from the end of April until August; Paul left in August, and UC in September. There's no point really in replacing Paul and UC, since it's so late on in the year, and I think everyone knew NYB's departure was only temporary.
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Shalom |
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QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 16th October 2008, 9:15pm) QUOTE(Shalom @ Fri 17th October 2008, 2:07am) Re: Anyone who might rock the wikiboat...
Jimbo said if anyone retired mid-year this year, he would replace them from someone who got at least 50% in the 2007 election. Jimbo didn't keep his word. (Is anyone surprised?) Newyorkbrad retired and UninvitedCompany lapsed into real life, but Jimbo left their seats vacant until NYB returned and UC formally resigned. Anyway, he said anyone who got 50%, and he explicitly included Giano in that list.
Where did he say this? Paul August also resigned, remember. NYB was gone from the end of April until August; Paul left in August, and UC in September. There's no point really in replacing Paul and UC, since it's so late on in the year, and I think everyone knew NYB's departure was only temporary. At this point I agree that it's not worth it to replace UC and PA before the elections. It wasn't obvious to me that NYB was coming back, though maybe it was obvious to everyone else - it certainly wasn't publicly spoken of that way. Jimbo said it in his announcement of his December 2007 selections, reported in the Signpost. Look in the Signpost archives for December 2007.
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UseOnceAndDestroy |
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QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Thu 16th October 2008, 7:40pm) QUOTE(UseOnceAndDestroy @ Thu 16th October 2008, 10:44am) Sure they are. Anyone who might actually want to rock the wikiboat would be excluded. Do you have any evidence to that effect, or is it an as-yet untested hypothesis? Not that there's anything wrong with as-yet untested hypotheses - I express quite a few of them around here - but they should be recognized as what they are. I was going to present the current arbcom as exhibit A, but I see Shalom has already done that quite nicely. I may be inclined to collect examples of arbs-toeing-the-line here as we go along. QUOTE(everyking @ Thu 16th October 2008, 8:07pm) To suggest that the composition of the ArbCom is irrelevant is simply ludicrous--in the context of Wikipolitics, nothing is more important than the composition of the ArbCom. It's only irrelevant if you think Wikipedia itself is irrelevant, and therefore whatever future direction the project takes is inconsequential. That's assuming the body actually influences the "future direction of the project". It doesn't. It makes relatively inconsistent decisions on the banning-and-reverting - as you say, "wikipolitics" - but does not substantially influence goals and methods. QUOTE(Alex @ Fri 17th October 2008, 2:15am) QUOTE(Shalom @ Fri 17th October 2008, 2:07am) Re: Anyone who might rock the wikiboat...
Jimbo said if anyone retired mid-year this year, he would replace them from someone who got at least 50% in the 2007 election. Jimbo didn't keep his word. (Is anyone surprised?) Newyorkbrad retired and UninvitedCompany lapsed into real life, but Jimbo left their seats vacant until NYB returned and UC formally resigned. Anyway, he said anyone who got 50%, and he explicitly included Giano in that list.
Where did he say this? Here, for those with short memories. Also of interest in that writeup is the way term lengths and composition of the body are chopped and changed at will.
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Shalom |
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I'm with Sarcasticidealist here. I think I intended the opposite of what Useonceanddestroy is interpreting of me -- namely, Jimbo might well appoint someone whose views he personally does not agree with. The main problem for someone hell-bent on rocking the wiki-boat, to use that odd metaphor, is to win the election from the community. When I think of who is likely to make it into Arbcom, I think of people who have not been involved on the protagonist level in edit wars, but may have tried to resolve them and succeeded, or are involved in sockpuppet investigations and block/unblock requests of established users. Anyone who has a realistic shot at making Arbcom has to fit into the institutional framework.
I think Jimbo's relative lack of involvement at this stage is advantageous in that he's not likely to reject any candidate by virtue of disliking that candidate. He dislikes certain people, to be sure, but he won't care enough to keep them off Arbcom. At least, that's what I'm hoping.
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One |
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Hmm, no one has commented that Jimbo has extended the term of Thebainer. He also reminds us that he retains a monarch's veto if the community does not select a "good, safe, and trusted appointment." Long-time admin Duk had this to say about Jimbo's sense of trustworthiness: QUOTE(Duk) The most unsound appointments, in my opinion, such as Kelly Martin's and Essjay's, were appointments made by you without the input of the community. As far as judging the 'soundness' of appointments, Jimbo, I suggest you leave it to the community. --Duk 23:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC) I think this poor track record might actually explain why Jimbo declined to fill any seats this year. I once read a daily newspaper which refused to issue political endorsements because the editor recommended Nixon in 1972. Lar also posits an interesting theory: QUOTE(Lar) It has been said that the Queen of England can overrule Parliament... once. After that she would no longer be Queen. Whether matters here are analogous or not, I cannot say, but I suspect they might be. ++Lar: t/c 04:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC) This post has been edited by One:
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Alex |
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QUOTE(One @ Mon 20th October 2008, 9:11am) Hmm, no one has commented that Jimbo has extended the term of Thebainer. He also reminds us that he retains a monarch's veto if the community does not select a "good, safe, and trusted appointment." Long-time admin Duk had this to say about Jimbo's sense of trustworthiness: QUOTE(Duk) The most unsound appointments, in my opinion, such as Kelly Martin's and Essjay's, were appointments made by you without the input of the community. As far as judging the 'soundness' of appointments, Jimbo, I suggest you leave it to the community. --Duk 23:03, 19 October 2008 (UTC) I think this poor track record might actually explain why Jimbo declined to fill any seats this year. I once read a daily newspaper which refused to issue political endorsements because the editor recommended Nixon in 1972. Lar also posits an interesting theory: QUOTE(Lar) It has been said that the Queen of England can overrule Parliament... once. After that she would no longer be Queen. Whether matters here are analogous or not, I cannot say, but I suspect they might be. ++Lar: t/c 04:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC) I can't think of a single appointment by Jimbo that was a good one to be honest. Kelly Martin and Essjay were a disaster for a start.
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One |
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Jimbo explains why the WMF board doesn't take over his role on enwp and confirms the important role that ex-Arbs (except Kelly Martin, I imagine) play: QUOTE(Jimmy Wales) Well, but the board is clearly the wrong institution for this. The board is not, and should not be, focused on the detailed governance of the community of the English language Wikipedia. The board is tasked with governance and oversight of a global charity, and quite properly for a number of reasons prefer to stay out of these kinds of debates. It strikes me as unlikely these days that I would act in any, shall we say, interesting ways, without first consulting and getting approval from the majority of the Arbs and ex-Arbs. Of course, in theory, this too can be problematic, as giving the existing ArbCom a say over the next ArbCom poses some (mostly theoretical) difficulties. In any event, I propose that we continue to evolve slowly and thoughtfully over time.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 13:08, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Meanwhile, Cirt is asking a line of Socratic questions, trying to understand why discretionary selection is good and necessary. This post has been edited by One:
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Gold heart |
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Lean duck!
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Mon 20th October 2008, 10:34pm) QUOTE(Gold heart @ Mon 20th October 2008, 10:29pm) I think WP will eventually implode because of the distinct lack self-honesty amongst almost all the admins. Sad really! ~~~~
Did you mean to sign with 4 tildes?(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) ~~~~ Well, I have to be honest with you wikiwhistle. My bad, my bad, my bad!!! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) Two hours sleep last evening does that wacko Wikipedian stuff to people. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Mon 20th October 2008, 2:41pm) QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Mon 20th October 2008, 10:34pm) QUOTE(Gold heart @ Mon 20th October 2008, 10:29pm) I think WP will eventually implode because of the distinct lack self-honesty amongst almost all the admins. Sad really! ~~~~
Did you mean to sign with 4 tildes?(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) ~~~~ Second sign of madness, so I hear. Drunken editors bluepencil the their love letters (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif); Wikipedians sign them with tildes ~~~~. A tail behind, a trunk in front, Complete the usual elephant. The tail in front, the trunk behind, Is what you very seldom find. If you for specimens should hunt With trunks behind and tails in front, That hunt would occupy you long The force of habit is so strong. --A.E. Housman
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Proabivouac |
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Bane of all wikiland
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QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Sun 26th October 2008, 1:34am) I have no idea what the philosophy is here.
Privatemusings asked if Jimbo would appoint him if he won the election: QUOTE(Privatemusings) ...and finally - if I were to run, and poll strongly enough, would you have any objection to my serving on the committee? Privatemusings (talk) 04:40, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
Jimbo's statement here echos last year's situation with Giano: QUOTE(Jimbo Wales) I would be strongly disinclined to appoint anyone who has been reprimanded by the ArbCom less than a year ago for sockpuppeting and inappropriate BLP editing.--Jimbo Wales (talk) 15:01, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
So The Arbitrators can disqualify anyone's candidacy simply by placing them under sanction - and we already know that contributors can be sanctioned merely for criticizing them (= "incivility" and "disruption").
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(Alex @ Sat 25th October 2008, 6:13pm) QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Sun 26th October 2008, 1:55am) Jimbo now says that new Arbitrators must be approved by current and former members of the Committee… QUOTE(Jimbo Wales) “I will not appoint anyone who is not supported by the existing Arbs and Arbs Emeritus.†http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=247483118…with Thomas H. Larsen, Giano, Jehochman, SlimVirgin and Cla68 dissenting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jimbo_Wales#G.27dayI'm not sure anyone likes this particular idea, but hey, what can we do? A self-perpetuating College of Cardinals, with Jimbo as Pope for life. Indeed, what can you do? I have some ideas about the WMF board, though, which holds the real power. These guys aren't rich enough to stand up to a determined foundation takeover bribe, in which some larger entity like the Gates Foundation or the Alfred P. Sloan foundation decides to take an interest in WMF and offers to buy its way into a controlling position with enough new board members to get their way, with the existing board members stipended as part of the deal. You think they're going to say no? Jimbo will vote against it, but he's probably the only one who will.
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Kelly Martin |
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Bring back the guttersnipes!
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QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Sat 25th October 2008, 9:06pm) QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th October 2008, 6:53pm) I wonder if he'll ask for my opinion in this matter. I should think so - you're in good standing on Wikipedia, right? Hard to say. Supposedly, I'm still living "under a cloud" (whatever that means). The fact that I'm not permitted to request adminship at will, and that I've subsequently failed an RFA, would be proof to most Wikiweenians that I'm not "in good standing". And I'm sure in Jimbo's mind, "enemy of Wikipedia" is inconsistent with "Arbitrator Emeritus", and it's plainly obvious that Jimmy has me firmly pegged in the former slot in his mind.
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wikiwhistle |
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sun 26th October 2008, 2:14am) QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Sat 25th October 2008, 9:06pm) QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sat 25th October 2008, 6:53pm) I wonder if he'll ask for my opinion in this matter. I should think so - you're in good standing on Wikipedia, right? Hard to say. Supposedly, I'm still living "under a cloud" (whatever that means). The fact that I'm not permitted to request adminship at will, and that I've subsequently failed an RFA, would be proof to most Wikiweenians that I'm not "in good standing". And I'm sure in Jimbo's mind, "enemy of Wikipedia" is inconsistent with "Arbitrator Emeritus", and it's plainly obvious that Jimmy has me firmly pegged in the former slot in his mind. Are you on arbcom-l mailing list?
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Giggy |
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QUOTE(One @ Sun 26th October 2008, 3:23pm) Remember a few days ago when FT2 said that Arbitrators were the wisest Wikipedians? Remember how someone here asked "well why not allow them to choose their own successors?"
Well...
... You mean Jimbo reads this site? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif)
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Viridae |
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Fat Cat
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QUOTE(Giggy @ Sun 26th October 2008, 7:25pm) QUOTE(One @ Sun 26th October 2008, 3:23pm) Remember a few days ago when FT2 said that Arbitrators were the wisest Wikipedians? Remember how someone here asked "well why not allow them to choose their own successors?"
Well...
... You mean Jimbo reads this site? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Reminds me of this: http://xkcd.com/481/About a week later youtube implemented the "read your comment back to you" feature.
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Milton Roe |
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Known alias of J. Random Troll
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QUOTE(Giggy @ Sun 26th October 2008, 1:25am) QUOTE(One @ Sun 26th October 2008, 3:23pm) Remember a few days ago when FT2 said that Arbitrators were the wisest Wikipedians? Remember how someone here asked "well why not allow them to choose their own successors?"
Well...
... You mean Jimbo reads this site? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) Jimbo specifically mentioned this site by name in his sex chat to Rachel Marsden. So he must read it when he can stand to. I personally think WR's proudest moment was acting then as what passes for a conscience, as Jimbo was deciding how to go about fixing up Rachel's bio in order to get-laid-in-a-worry-free-way . Of course, we ultimately had no effect (Jimbo's dick does NOT read WR) and of course, he did get caught. * But it's the thought that counts. --Milton * N.B. Bunnyboiling bunnies don't need WR, WP, or even the internet to boil bunnies; they've been doing it back into recorded history, see Medea (and even the term is from Fatal Attraction, a film made in 1987 before the net came to the average person). The general bunnyboiling idea is that any man who has sex with a woman has thereby promised her his eternal soul. As in: "I let you into my bed, so now I OWN you." This is independent of the existence of children, promises, lost virginity, wasted time. For those women in whom this response is activated (and it is a minority, thank goodness) the corollary is that a woman scorned believes she has the right to hurt the man whose soul she believes she owns, in any way she sees fit. Men have their own version of this response, and (like everything else about men) it tends to be more physically violent. Again, thank goodness, it's far from universal. Biology (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) Things will be so much nicer when we're fully in control of it.
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wikiwhistle |
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sun 26th October 2008, 2:42am) QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Sat 25th October 2008, 9:20pm) Are you on arbcom-l mailing list? Of course not. Why would I want to be on that? What I mean is, that's made up of the beloved arbs and emeritus arbs to which Jimbo was probably refering. But you're right, he should ask your opinion on the candidates. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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wikiwhistle |
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QUOTE(One @ Tue 28th October 2008, 6:21pm) The user formerly known as Neil has [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AMBisanz%2FACE2008&diff=248169792&oldid=248048937]tossed his fish into the ring.[/url
] Whatever happened to his vow on his user page- "I am trying to stop getting involved in behind-the-scenes rubbish, and now mainly edit articles." (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) That said, he might be a good candidate. QUOTE The Fat Man's campaign is languishing.
TFM doesn't know how to do things in moderation, bless him. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Being silly is ok, but not quite all the time. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) I presume his candidacy is sort of tongue-in-cheek? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)
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QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Tue 28th October 2008, 8:51pm) QUOTE(One @ Tue 28th October 2008, 11:21am) The user formerly known as Neil has tossed his fish into the ring.So that would mean that, along with SirFozzie, we have two open members of the Review on the ballot? Wizardman, Jehochman, Bishonen and Aaron Brenneman all have accounts here in their name, although they admittedly don't post here very much.
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Obesity |
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I taste as good as skinny feels.
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Tue 28th October 2008, 2:34pm) QUOTE The Fat Man's campaign is languishing.
TFM doesn't know how to do things in moderation, bless him. That's why they call him the Fat Man. QUOTE (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) Being silly is ok, but not quite all the time. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) I presume his candidacy is sort of tongue-in-cheek? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) The Fat Man almost never does what he says he's going to do. He likes to tantalize but never actually delivers. Besides, I can count on 2 hands and 2 feet the number of people who would consider voting for him (they would include family members and hangers-on, as well as some of the most influential editors on the project); however, most people have never heard of him, or see him for the non-contributing troll that he is. Also, even if TFMWNCB won in a landslide, do you think that Jimbo and his cadre of mailing list puppets would even remotely consider granting him any privileges or responsibilities? Give me a break. Giano--an actual content contributor, who is more widely known--has a much better chance, if you're into the "outsider" thing. All that said, expect TFM to make some noise in December, even if he's not on the ballot. This post has been edited by Obesity:
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Neil |
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QUOTE(maggot3 @ Tue 28th October 2008, 8:55pm) QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Tue 28th October 2008, 8:51pm) QUOTE(One @ Tue 28th October 2008, 11:21am) The user formerly known as Neil has tossed his fish into the ring.So that would mean that, along with SirFozzie, we have two open members of the Review on the ballot? Wizardman, Jehochman, Bishonen and Aaron Brenneman all have accounts here in their name, although they admittedly don't post here very much. SirFozzie and I are openly "WR". Wizardman, Jehochman, Bishonen and Aaron Brenneman are "WR", but don't like to talk about it. There are a lot of Arbs who are "WR", but only came out once they had been elected.
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QUOTE(One @ Tue 28th October 2008, 6:21pm) Sam Korn is also up.
I was under the impression that checkusers had to be eighteen and verified as such to the Foundation, but whilst checking Sam Korn out I realised that he's been a checkuser since 2006, at which time he was seventeen. Odd.
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QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Wed 29th October 2008, 5:39am) QUOTE(One @ Tue 28th October 2008, 6:21pm) Sam Korn is also up.
I was under the impression that checkusers had to be eighteen and verified as such to the Foundation, but whilst checking Sam Korn out I realised that he's been a checkuser since 2006, at which time he was seventeen. Odd. The identification/age requirement was implemented in 2007.
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Giggy |
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QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Wed 29th October 2008, 7:39pm) QUOTE(One @ Tue 28th October 2008, 6:21pm) Sam Korn is also up.
I was under the impression that checkusers had to be eighteen and verified as such to the Foundation, but whilst checking Sam Korn out I realised that he's been a checkuser since 2006, at which time he was seventeen. Odd. Things were different back then, as they say. Perhaps since he was on ArbCom they didn't think before giving him the CU access (since the 18+ AC rule only came up at last year's elections, if I recall). Or maybe they're just lazy.
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Neil |
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QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Wed 29th October 2008, 11:26am) QUOTE(Neil @ Wed 29th October 2008, 9:21am) SirFozzie and I are openly "WR".
There is a rumor going around that you are also "Error59." http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showuser=3363Can we confirm that this is or isn't the case? (I havent' looked into it myself.) ?! Not me.
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Ryan Postlethwaite |
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QUOTE(Heat @ Tue 28th October 2008, 8:49pm) I see Ryan Postlethwaite isn't running for once.
For once? I've only run once!
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The Joy |
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I am a millipede! I am amazing!
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QUOTE(Ryan Postlethwaite @ Wed 29th October 2008, 9:07am) QUOTE(Heat @ Tue 28th October 2008, 8:49pm) I see Ryan Postlethwaite isn't running for once.
For once? I've only run once! You couldn't even win an RfB. What chance could you have at being elected arbitrator? Then again, it may actually be easier to win an ArbCom election than an RfB. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif)
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Alex |
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QUOTE(The Joy @ Wed 29th October 2008, 11:49pm) QUOTE(Ryan Postlethwaite @ Wed 29th October 2008, 9:07am) QUOTE(Heat @ Tue 28th October 2008, 8:49pm) I see Ryan Postlethwaite isn't running for once.
For once? I've only run once! You couldn't even win an RfB. What chance could you have at being elected arbitrator? Then again, it may actually be easier to win an ArbCom election than an RfB. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) Ryan withdrew in the very early stages. He'd have passed if it was closed when he withdrew. As for getting on to arbcom being easier, it is actually. You need 90% to "win" an RFB. To get onto Arbcom you just need to be part of the top however spaces there are.
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maggot3 |
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D.A.F. |
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QUOTE(everyking @ Mon 3rd November 2008, 6:47pm) QUOTE(maggot3 @ Mon 3rd November 2008, 9:39pm) Very good news. I was concerned that the ArbCom might not be so different in 2009 with Gordon still on it. His departure increases the odds that this election will mark a real transition. What real transition, are you still naive to expect any real transition? The ArbCom will never be much different, because real changes are impossible. The only changes you will have, is more articulate arbitrators like NYB who know how to write to gain more supports even thought the results of their actions will be identical. It's becoming just more sofisticated in silencing the critics by embelishing the package while the content remains identical.
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Giggy |
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SirFozzie |
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QUOTE(Giggy @ Tue 4th November 2008, 11:06pm) QUOTE(One @ Wed 5th November 2008, 1:58pm) QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 3:51am) I don't understand. He only listed himself as "possible." Well it's better than him not running. Casliber is better than any of the current confirmed candidates. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)
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Neil |
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QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 4:06am) QUOTE(One @ Wed 5th November 2008, 1:58pm) QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 3:51am) I don't understand. He only listed himself as "possible." Well it's better than him not running. Casliber is better than any of the current confirmed candidates. SCREW YUO GIGY I HATE YOURE FACE (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) This post has been edited by Neil:
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Giggy |
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Wed 5th November 2008, 5:31pm) QUOTE(Giggy @ Tue 4th November 2008, 11:06pm) Well it's better than him not running. Casliber is better than any of the current confirmed candidates.
(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif) QUOTE(Neil @ Wed 5th November 2008, 6:39pm) QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 4:06am) Well it's better than him not running. Casliber is better than any of the current confirmed candidates.
SCREW YUO GIGY I HATE YOURE FACE (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Nawww. I was wondering how I should word that so I didn't piss off too many people (well, I was trying to piss Neil off, but other than that). There are other good candidates there too, but Cas is the least interested in drama and timewasting and most interested in writing one of them encyclopedia thingies. QUOTE(Pumpkin Muffins @ Wed 5th November 2008, 4:01pm) QUOTE(everyking @ Tue 4th November 2008, 9:53pm) QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 5:06am) Well it's better than him not running. Casliber is better than any of the current confirmed candidates.
I can't recall seeing him around. What are his views? He's the mushroom man (if memory serves) Mushrooms, dinosaurs, and assorted trivia.
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AlioTheFool |
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I wish we could hit reboot and just replace them all except for Newyorkbrad
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Alex |
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QUOTE(AlioTheFool @ Wed 5th November 2008, 4:55pm) I wish we could hit reboot and just replace them all except for Newyorkbrad
I don't think NYB would manage on his own! And they aren't all bad. QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 8:46am) Cas is the least interested in drama and timewasting and most interested in writing one of them encyclopedia thingies.
So... an ArbCom member not interested in drama, that should be interesting! Why would we want to ruin his article writing skills by supporting him for ArbCom? Nice guy for sure, but not suited for ArbCom imo, much better doing what he's good at - Encyclopedia.
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One |
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Postmaster General
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QUOTE(Alex @ Wed 5th November 2008, 6:17pm) QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 8:46am) Cas is the least interested in drama and timewasting and most interested in writing one of them encyclopedia thingies.
So... an ArbCom member not interested in drama, that should be interesting! Why would we want to ruin his article writing skills by supporting him for ArbCom? Nice guy for sure, but not suited for ArbCom imo, much better doing what he's good at - Encyclopedia. Actually, I've interacted with Casliber. I think he would be a good ArbCom member based on qualities besides his focus on the encyclopedia. That focus, however, ensures that he'll have good perspective. In total, I think it's a good package and hope he does run. In general, though, I agree with you, Alex. Article writers are not necessarily the best arbitrators. If that were true, I think YellowMonkey and Charles Matthews (who seem to be the most article-focused Arbs) would be getting much more praise than NYB. Instead, they're out there doing what they love: writing articles. Admins as a whole are not actually very dramatic. But the subset of admins we discuss here are. I suspect some attraction to controversy is required for arbitrators to stay glued to their task. Many of the best article writers (with outstanding exceptions like SG, Cla68, and Giano II) tend to avoid controversy because it gets in the way of their chosen hobby. I don't scorn them for that, but I think it's the reality.
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Casliber |
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QUOTE(Giggy @ Thu 6th November 2008, 11:11am) QUOTE(Alex @ Thu 6th November 2008, 4:17am) QUOTE(Giggy @ Wed 5th November 2008, 8:46am) Cas is the least interested in drama and timewasting and most interested in writing one of them encyclopedia thingies.
So... an ArbCom member not interested in drama, that should be interesting! Why would we want to ruin his article writing skills by supporting him for ArbCom? Nice guy for sure, but not suited for ArbCom imo, much better doing what he's good at - Encyclopedia. In my opinion, this strategy hasn't worked so far... I was musing on it but then was asked by privatemusings who I have met and had beers with, and then SandyGeorgia and Eusebeus concurred (!) I guess what I thought I could offer is: (1) tooling around FAC, GAN and several wikiprojects and watching alot of diffs I get an idea on how articles grow and the relative importance of contributions (2) I am a psychiatrist by trade and a bit of a people watcher (including myself) and watching (and participating in) conflicts grow and resolve has been interesting. Furthermore, one of the main tenets of WP is collaborative editing and an ability to negotiate (i.e. a little bit more than just interact with) others, and I have seen and foretold (well, to myself anyway) several crash-and-burns, and have thought upon ways to promote certain editor's strengths rather than let them continue to wallow (?) and I may be able to input into arbcom like this WRT remedies etc. (3) One thing about medicine and especially psychiatry is that treating yourself or family is not a good idea as you lose objectivity, thus if all candidates were elected on experience or having gone through the ranks as clerks etc., I'd be worried that objectivity would be lost when it came to any systemic analysis which may include behaviour of those close to or within arbcom etc. Thus it is a good idea that some come from outside the regulars. One reason I don't comment much is that often someone else has already said or observed what I wanted to say and by that time there is so much text I am loth to add any more to it as it is already at that tldr stage almost. heck, I think I'll have to cut-and-paste this over there...
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Casliber |
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QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Fri 7th November 2008, 8:26am) QUOTE(sarcasticidealist @ Thu 6th November 2008, 5:46pm) QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Thu 6th November 2008, 10:44am) Erm... your point being? That I'm a pedantic shithead who really dislikes misuse/overuse of the word "literally", primarily. Please demonstrate any evidence you have that I overused the word 'literally'? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) An often-commented on redundancy is the use of the word 'literally' - it is often used as more of a filler word (for emphasis I guess) rather than imparting any meaning. The point being if you removed it frm the original sentence, then no meaning would be lost or changed, hence it is a redundant adverb. 'Personally' is another one commonly cited as well for the same reasons. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) Could proably add 'primarily' to that group as well (hence the quip above) (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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