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_ Wikipedia in Blogland _ Kelly Martin : Arbitrary Notions

Posted by: Kato

Here's a link to Kelly Martin's rolling revelations, as she releases extracts from the Arbitration Commitee archives while she was a sitting member. A kind of "The Arbcom years 2005-6" retrospective, if you will.

http://arbitrary-notions.blogspot.com/

Discuss.

Posted by: everyking

Kelly's time on the ArbCom mailing list neatly coincides with the period in which the ArbCom treated me most severely, and I look forward to seeing exactly why (and how) the ArbCom decided to place me under a litany of restrictions, culminating in a two-week ban and desysopping.

Posted by: KamrynMatika

Intensely boring so far. I'm not going to bother following it, I'll wait for others to point out interesting things [if there are any]. I'm struggling to see why anyone would be interested in arbcom emails from 3 years ago anyway [unless your name is everyking]. Are we going to find out anything about the arbcom that we don't already know? I think that the emails will only be interesting to those with specific grudges or bones to pick with arbcom. They might show that the arbcom is a corrupt, incompetent bunch of losers, but we already knew that. bored.gif

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(KamrynMatika @ Mon 9th February 2009, 12:13am) *

Intensely boring so far. I'm not going to bother following it, I'll wait for others to point out interesting things [if there are any]. I'm struggling to see why anyone would be interested in arbcom emails from 3 years ago anyway [unless your name is everyking]. Are we going to find out anything about the arbcom that we don't already know? I think that the emails will only be interesting to those with specific grudges or bones to pick with arbcom. They might show that the arbcom is a corrupt, incompetent bunch of losers, but we already knew that. bored.gif


Information Wants To Be Free —

No One Said It Wants To Be Interesting …

Jon hrmph.gif

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(everyking @ Sun 8th February 2009, 11:10pm) *
Kelly's time on the ArbCom mailing list neatly coincides with the period in which the ArbCom treated me most severely, and I look forward to seeing exactly why (and how) the ArbCom decided to place me under a litany of restrictions, culminating in a two-week ban and desysopping.

I'm afraid Kelly's time on the ArbCom list also coincides with Dave Gerard's mistaking me for Lir on Uncyclopedia. I'd be a little surprised if he posted any details of his Dirty Tricks Campaign™ to the list, though he probably would have mentioned it, since he thought it involved Lir, and Lir had been a major headache for ArbCom around that time.

That all would have run from December 2005 through March 2006, so at the rate Kelly's posting it, we should see some stuff on it by June/July, I would imagine...

Posted by: dtobias

I'm a little curious what they might have said behind the scenes about the infamous MONGO case, which launched the BADSITES concept. Did they have any secret ulterior motives for imposing an "attack site" link ban? That came around the end of the period she's got archives for, so it'll be a while before it comes up.

----------------
Now playing: http://www.foxytunes.com/artist/the+rembrandts/track/ill+be+there+for+you+(theme+from+friends)
via http://www.foxytunes.com/signatunes/

Posted by: Kelly Martin

I think the first "interesting" episode that will come up as I post these will be the Stevertigo Affair, whch is coming up pretty soon. I admit that much of this stuff is dreadfully boring.

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Sun 8th February 2009, 11:20pm) *
I admit that much of this stuff is dreadfully boring.

Just a thought: you can always skip anything not of a really controversial nature.
I trust you to do a proper job.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

I posted a comment to the http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=6815414&page=1 —

QUOTE

Re: "at least you could see Wikipedia's biases, and there were transparent procedures for correcting them"

Readers and reporters who want to gain some insight into the "transparency" of Wikipedia procedures might be interested in following developments at this blog — http://arbitrary-notions.blogspot.com/ — where a former Wikipedia insider is airing out the smoke-filled rooms of Wikipedia's behind-the-scenes stage management.

Jon Awbrey, 09 Feb 2009, 8:32 AM


WOW — I haven't had this much fun since the Pentagon Papers.

Ja Ja boing.gif

Tagged for Web Searches under • Wikipedia Transparency •

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 9th February 2009, 8:50am) *

I posted a comment to the http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/story?id=6815414&page=1 —

QUOTE

Re: "at least you could see Wikipedia's biases, and there were transparent procedures for correcting them"

Readers and reporters who want to gain some insight into the "transparency" of Wikipedia procedures might be interested in following developments at this blog — http://arbitrary-notions.blogspot.com/ — where a former Wikipedia insider is airing out the smoke-filled rooms of Wikipedia's behind-the-scenes stage management.

Jon Awbrey, 09 Feb 2009, 8:32 AM


WOW — I haven't had this much fun since the Pentagon Papers.

Ja Ja boing.gif

Tagged for Web Searches under • Wikipedia Transparency •


It looks from here like the comment I posted this morning has been deleted from the ABC News site. It's hard to tell because the site is so klunky, or maybe ABC has got some beef with anything called Fox, Fire or Ice. So I was just wondering if anyone else sees the comment that I've quoted above?

Jon hrmph.gif

Posted by: LaraLove

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 9th February 2009, 2:26pm) *

It looks from here like the comment I posted this morning has been deleted from the ABC News site. It's hard to tell because the site is so klunky, or maybe ABC has got some beef with anything called Fox, Fire or Ice. So I was just wondering if anyone else sees the comment that I've quoted above?

Jon hrmph.gif

The only quote I see from you is: "A systematic study of problems with biographical articles on Wikipedia, focusing on Wikipedia's treatment of the 100 U.S. Senators, can be found at the following location: http://wikipediareview.com/Wikipedia_Vandalism_Study
Jon Awbrey Feb-6" It's followed by two other comments, both from the 6th, the last from SarcasticIdealist.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Mon 9th February 2009, 2:30pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 9th February 2009, 2:26pm) *

It looks from here like the comment I posted this morning has been deleted from the ABC News site. It's hard to tell because the site is so klunky, or maybe ABC has got some beef with anything called Fox, Fire or Ice. So I was just wondering if anyone else sees the comment that I've quoted above?

Jon hrmph.gif


The only quote I see from you is: "A systematic study of problems with biographical articles on Wikipedia, focusing on Wikipedia's treatment of the 100 U.S. Senators, can be found at the following location:

http://wikipediareview.com/Wikipedia_Vandalism_Study

Jon Awbrey Feb-6"

It's followed by two other comments, both from the 6th, the last from SarcasticIdealist.


That's what I thought. They display them latest on top, so Sarcasticides's is actually the first comment. They also deleted the comment from my neighborhood personal page.

Why is it that everything in the Wikipedia Warp Field seems to suffer from this brand of Stealth Censorship?

Ja? hrmph.gif

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 9th February 2009, 11:40am) *
Why is it that everything in the Wikipedia Warp Field seems to suffer from this brand of Stealth Censorship?

Gerard has hundreds of toadies following you around online,
defaming and destroying you at every opportunity. Of course.
happy.gif

(Didya ever consider that maybe, the operators at go.com are
moderating these comment areas carefully, and you said something
that violated their "terms of use"?)

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Mon 9th February 2009, 6:52pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 9th February 2009, 11:40am) *

Why is it that everything in the Wikipedia Warp Field seems to suffer from this brand of Stealth Censorship?


Gerard has hundreds of toadies following you around online, defaming and destroying you at every opportunity. Of course. happy.gif

(Didya ever consider that maybe, the operators at go.com are moderating these comment areas carefully, and you said something that violated their "terms of use"?)


Well, I read that 17-paragraph Terms Of Use as carefully as any layman could be expected to do, and I cannot think of anything I wrote that might have violated it. Can you?

Jon hrmph.gif


Posted by: LaraLove

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 9th February 2009, 9:24pm) *

Well, I read that 17-paragraph Terms Of Use as carefully as any layman could be expected to do, and I cannot think of anything I wrote that might have violated it. Can you?

Jon hrmph.gif

The only possibility in my mind would be that the link was considered spam, but I think that would be a far stretch, as it was clearly relevant.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Mon 9th February 2009, 10:08pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Mon 9th February 2009, 9:24pm) *

Well, I read that 17-paragraph Terms Of Use as carefully as any layman could be expected to do, and I cannot think of anything I wrote that might have violated it. Can you?

Jon hrmph.gif


The only possibility in my mind would be that the link was considered spam, but I think that would be a far stretch, as it was clearly relevant.


A stretch indeed, since my earlier comment also included a link.

But I went ahead and tried another comment without a link — much less informative, of course, but maybe they can't handle too much information at once.

QUOTE

Re: "at least you could see Wikipedia's biases, and there were transparent procedures for correcting them"

Reports of Wikipedia's transparency are greatly exaggerated. You really ought to look into the existence of Wikipedia's numerous back channels, including Internet Relay Chat (IRC) lines and closed email lists, where a lot of the real decision-making processes are conducted.

Jon Awbrey 10:40 PM

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Business/IndustryInfo/comments?type=story&id=6815414


Posted by: Piperdown

Yawners!

maybe wordy or some ex-arbies will start re-leaking all those Sami Moreland emails to all those still in-tact idiots running WP....Chapman, Wales, Double WP-WR Agent Mack, and Baudy would especially enjoy it.

yuk yuk yuk!

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(David Gerard @ 07 Oct 2005)

XAL/Sophie is not connected to the same reality as the rest of us.

http://arbitrary-notions.blogspot.com/2009/02/7-oct-2005-re-fwd-wikipedia-e-mail.html


That has got to be the nicest thing DG has ever said about anyone.

Ja Ja boing.gif

Posted by: Kato

For followers of the inside play, the comments by Gerard and Raul about Bishonen back in 2005 indicate the rift that ultimately exploded again this year - when Bishonen banned FT2, and eventually saw him having to resign, humiliated.

It was all to get back at David Gerard, and was another act in these tedious Giano wars.

People who supported Bishonen, thinking that the anti-FT2 stuff was a noble act of justice-fighting, were completely duped.

There's a lot of it about at the moment.

Lately, people were duped to attack FT2 who had become the mark, using Peter Damian's complaints as their cover. Gameplayers like Bishonen, Giano and SlimVirgin were all at it, and too many people - including Reviewers here - fell for it.

It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

Oh, and here I thought it was all based on principle.

Yup, they really fooled me.

Ja Ja boing.gif

Posted by: dtobias

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Tue 10th February 2009, 8:08am) *

QUOTE(David Gerard @ 07 Oct 2005)

XAL/Sophie is not connected to the same reality as the rest of us.

http://arbitrary-notions.blogspot.com/2009/02/7-oct-2005-re-fwd-wikipedia-e-mail.html


That has got to be the nicest thing DG has ever said about anyone.


So which reality are you in?

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(dtobias @ Tue 10th February 2009, 8:45am) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Tue 10th February 2009, 8:08am) *

QUOTE(David Gerard @ 07 Oct 2005)

XAL/Sophie is not connected to the same reality as the rest of us.

http://arbitrary-notions.blogspot.com/2009/02/7-oct-2005-re-fwd-wikipedia-e-mail.html


That has got to be the nicest thing DG has ever said about anyone.


So which reality are you in?


Why, The Real Oneâ„¢, Of Course.

Ja Ja boing.gif

Posted by: InkBlot

QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th February 2009, 7:26am) *

For followers on the inside play, the comments by Gerard and Raul about Bishonen back in 2005 indicate the rift that ultimately exploded again this year - when Bishonen banned FT2, and eventually saw him having to resign, humiliated.

It was all to get back at David Gerard, and was another act in these tedious Giano wars.

People who supported Bishonen, thinking that the anti-FT2 stuff was a noble act of justice-fighting, were completely duped.

There's a lot of it about at the moment.

Lately, people were duped to attack FT2 who had become the mark, using Peter Damian's complaints as their cover. Gameplayers like Bishonen, Giano and SlimVirgin were all at it, and too many people - including Reviewers here - fell for it.

It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.


I don't see comments from Raul or Gerard about Bishonen...the last post I see is dated Oct8, the one after the haiku. Did the blog go private after that?

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(InkBlot @ Tue 10th February 2009, 9:09am) *

I don't see comments from Raul or Gerard about Bishonen … the last post I see is dated Oct8, the one after the haiku. Did the blog go private after that?


No activity for a while. I begin to wonder if she got served.

Jon hrmph.gif

Posted by: Kelly Martin

Nah, just busy with other things.

Posted by: Cla68

QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th February 2009, 1:26pm) *

For followers of the inside play, the comments by Gerard and Raul about Bishonen back in 2005 indicate the rift that ultimately exploded again this year - when Bishonen banned FT2, and eventually saw him having to resign, humiliated.

It was all to get back at David Gerard, and was another act in these tedious Giano wars.

People who supported Bishonen, thinking that the anti-FT2 stuff was a noble act of justice-fighting, were completely duped.

There's a lot of it about at the moment.

Lately, people were duped to attack FT2 who had become the mark, using Peter Damian's complaints as their cover. Gameplayers like Bishonen, Giano and SlimVirgin were all at it, and too many people - including Reviewers here - fell for it.

It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.


I think there's a lot of truth in your assessment of what occurred with FT2 and is occurring with Lar.

Posted by: Kato

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 12:05am) *

QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th February 2009, 1:26pm) *

For followers of the inside play, the comments by Gerard and Raul about Bishonen back in 2005 indicate the rift that ultimately exploded again this year - when Bishonen banned FT2, and eventually saw him having to resign, humiliated.

It was all to get back at David Gerard, and was another act in these tedious Giano wars.

People who supported Bishonen, thinking that the anti-FT2 stuff was a noble act of justice-fighting, were completely duped.

There's a lot of it about at the moment.

Lately, people were duped to attack FT2 who had become the mark, using Peter Damian's complaints as their cover. Gameplayers like Bishonen, Giano and SlimVirgin were all at it, and too many people - including Reviewers here - fell for it.

It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.


I think there's a lot of truth in your assessment of what occurred with FT2 and is occurring with Lar.

Peter Damian had been banging on about FT2 for a year, with little to show for his troubles. It was only when FT2 challenged the gameplayers that he started to slip. Likewise, Charles Matthews, Jehochman - trashed after dissing the wrong people. Now Lar.

It is like watching Godfather II.

Posted by: Cla68

QUOTE(Kato @ Wed 11th February 2009, 12:57am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 12:05am) *

QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th February 2009, 1:26pm) *

For followers of the inside play, the comments by Gerard and Raul about Bishonen back in 2005 indicate the rift that ultimately exploded again this year - when Bishonen banned FT2, and eventually saw him having to resign, humiliated.

It was all to get back at David Gerard, and was another act in these tedious Giano wars.

People who supported Bishonen, thinking that the anti-FT2 stuff was a noble act of justice-fighting, were completely duped.

There's a lot of it about at the moment.

Lately, people were duped to attack FT2 who had become the mark, using Peter Damian's complaints as their cover. Gameplayers like Bishonen, Giano and SlimVirgin were all at it, and too many people - including Reviewers here - fell for it.

It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.


I think there's a lot of truth in your assessment of what occurred with FT2 and is occurring with Lar.

Peter Damian had been banging on about FT2 for a year, with little to show for his troubles. It was only when FT2 challenged the gameplayers that he started to slip. Likewise, Charles Matthews, Jehochman - trashed after dissing the wrong people. Now Lar.

It is like watching Godfather II.


Here's the thing about it all. I'm fairly certain that volunteers like FT2 and Lar were/are not seeking positions of authority in Wikipedia in order to push POV. FT2 may have made a couple of POV edits to some article awhile ago, but he didn't appear to be trying to become an arbitrator to control any particular subject area (I'll leave his treatment of Peter Damien as a separate issue). Lar also genuinely appears to want to participate in high-level administrative work because he genuinely enjoys it and believes that he can be effective at it, not because he has any kind of nefarious agenda or has a narcissistic personality disorder screaming for gratification.

So, when two editors like FT2 and Lar get attacked and hectored by other power brokers in Wikipedia, I think it's a cause for concern if you want Wikipedia to succeed. I don't think that Giano has an agenda to control any content or reinforce his ego, but some of the other editors who have been allied with him lately apparently do.

Posted by: wikiwhistle

QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th February 2009, 1:26pm) *


It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.


Couldn't it just be that sometimes people do some things wrong, rather than them having challenged the 'wrong people'? smile.gif I for instance haven't been challenged myself (unless it's challenged by sleaze and nastiness) and don't have anything for which I need to get revenge on the Lar front. Or are some people flawless in your eyes? I partly agree about FT2, though.

Posted by: Random832

QUOTE(wikiwhistle @ Wed 11th February 2009, 10:03am) *

QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th February 2009, 1:26pm) *


It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.


Couldn't it just be that sometimes people do some things wrong, rather than them having challenged the 'wrong people'? smile.gif I for instance haven't been challenged myself (unless it's challenged by sleaze and nastiness)


No, but it's possible you're being manipulated by those who have set themselves up as his enemies.

Anyway, are you ready to either put your name on a specific accusation against Lar or clarify that you do not mean any such thing? What you're doing right now is kind of sleazy itself.

Posted by: tarantino

QUOTE(Random832 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 1:46pm) *

No, but it's possible you're being manipulated by those who have set themselves up as his enemies.


I wonder who has been http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pedro&oldid=269625567#Comments_at_Lar.27s_election?

Posted by: Cla68

QUOTE(tarantino @ Thu 12th February 2009, 2:21am) *

QUOTE(Random832 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 1:46pm) *

No, but it's possible you're being manipulated by those who have set themselves up as his enemies.


I wonder who has been http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pedro&oldid=269625567#Comments_at_Lar.27s_election?


Note that when he admits that he reads Wikipedia Review that he quickly adds that when he does he struggles to find anything good here among all the garbage? Perhaps he was ensuring that he stays politically correct with a certain group of Wikipedians. Is there a Sellout Barnstar that someone could award him that says something like, "For proving you are a true tool of the Wiki-cult."

Posted by: UseOnceAndDestroy

Per request, thread on scale of WP "success" split to http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=22913.]

Posted by: JoseClutch

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 12th February 2009, 12:20am) *

QUOTE(tarantino @ Thu 12th February 2009, 2:21am) *

QUOTE(Random832 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 1:46pm) *

No, but it's possible you're being manipulated by those who have set themselves up as his enemies.


I wonder who has been http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pedro&oldid=269625567#Comments_at_Lar.27s_election?


Note that when he admits that he reads Wikipedia Review that he quickly adds that when he does he struggles to find anything good here among all the garbage? Perhaps he was ensuring that he stays politically correct with a certain group of Wikipedians. Is there a Sellout Barnstar that someone could award him that says something like, "For proving you are a true tool of the Wiki-cult."

I struggle to find anything good in here among the garbage. But I keep struggling. Maybe it is like living in Canberra and getting all your news from the New York Times, maybe there is somebody finds it all interesting, and it just does not cater to your interestes. But maybe it is like trying to see the Big Bang by setting your TV to channel 1 - you know the signal is there, you are just not sure how to extract it from the noise.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Thu 12th February 2009, 10:25am) *

I struggle to find anything good in here among the garbage. But I keep struggling. Maybe it is like living in Canberra and getting all your news from the New York Times, maybe there is somebody finds it all interesting, and it just does not cater to your interestes. But maybe it is like trying to see the Big Bang by setting your TV to channel 1 — you know the signal is there, you are just not sure how to extract it from the noise.


I think you and a lot of folks are missing the point.

The very existence of Closed Opaque Wikiprocedures (WP:COWs) and other ∗-Court Chambers puts the lie to Wikipediot claims of Openness and Transparency.

Jon Image

Tagged for Web Searches under • Wikipedia Transparency •

Posted by: LaraLove

QUOTE(tarantino @ Wed 11th February 2009, 9:21pm) *

QUOTE(Random832 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 1:46pm) *

No, but it's possible you're being manipulated by those who have set themselves up as his enemies.


I wonder who has been http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pedro&oldid=269625567#Comments_at_Lar.27s_election?

Wow. Pedro is becoming increasingly uncivil and unapproachable. That is how I found myself commenting in situations. I recommended he take a break as I was going out. I now hope he reads this, a stronger recommendation for him to take a break. Better to take some time away from the project, making comments off-wiki, than to spend your reputation points on petty comments and insults.

Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?

Posted by: JoseClutch

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:31am) *

QUOTE(tarantino @ Wed 11th February 2009, 9:21pm) *

QUOTE(Random832 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 1:46pm) *

No, but it's possible you're being manipulated by those who have set themselves up as his enemies.


I wonder who has been http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pedro&oldid=269625567#Comments_at_Lar.27s_election?

Wow. Pedro is becoming increasingly uncivil and unapproachable. That is how I found myself commenting in situations. I recommended he take a break as I was going out. I now hope he reads this, a stronger recommendation for him to take a break. Better to take some time away from the project, making comments off-wiki, than to spend your reputation points on petty comments and insults.

Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pedro

Posted by: LaraLove

QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:38am) *

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Pedro

Oh, good! \o/

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:31am) *

Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?

Godwin's Law

Posted by: LaraLove

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:56am) *

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:31am) *

Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?

Godwin's Law

Yes, yes, I know. biggrin.gif But it doesn't explain why!

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(Gaspar Miltquotes @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:56am) *

QUOTE(Lara's Love's Lost @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:31am) *

Also, why do people always bring up Godwin?


Nazi's Law


Ja Ja boing.gif

Posted by: JoseClutch

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 12th February 2009, 12:04pm) *

QUOTE(Gaspar Miltquotes @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:56am) *

QUOTE(Lara's Love's Lost @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:31am) *

Also, why do people always bring up Godwin?


Nazi's Law


Ja Ja boing.gif


Jon

I am starting to worry you may have a case of what Wikipediots call "Edit count-itis". Have you read WR:DOCTORB ?

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:58am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:56am) *

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:31am) *

Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?

Godwin's Law

Yes, yes, I know. biggrin.gif But it doesn't explain why!

The Nazis are one of the worst villians of history (not the worst, but third behind Mao and Stalin in murder), plus they were as efficient as they were ruthless. They killed the mentally ill, handicapped, and the gay, and their dissenters, so in one sense they were the ultimate anti-liberals even if they hadn't mass murdered Jews also. And there was a definite comic book villiany to them: they invented and put into use all kinds of new villainous war stuff from the Blitz to V-weapons to jet aircraft, and had an effective and complicated propaganda organ and excellent sense of theater, all the way from the color of the uniforms to the archetecture and the huge Nuremburg torchlight rallies. Hitler was a big Wagner fan, so you can see how that worked. I'm tempted to suggest the Nazis were into "guerilla theater," but simply on a mass scale.

Okay, take all that, and you get the chance to have the ultimate evil villains. Not just a murderously efficient agenda against the helpless, but also technologically advanced with a great sense of presentation and drahwma. Thus, they can employed for nearly any rhetorical purpose. If your enemy is besting you in the propaganda and drama game (LaRouche, say), or even in the invention department, you can always compare him to the Third Reich. In every large public argument, there are bound to be some Jews, who naturally hate the Nazis worst of all villains in history, who will be especially tempted to do this.

Thus, Godwin's law. A metaphor for badness that flexible, hardly ever misses a chance to be used as a weapon by anyone who thinks their intellectual opponent is insufficiently liberal or flexible in any way.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 12th February 2009, 12:24pm) *

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:58am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:56am) *

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:31am) *

Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?


Godwin's Law


Yes, yes, I know. biggrin.gif But it doesn't explain why!


The Nazis are one of the worst villians of history (not the worst, but third behind Mao and Stalin in murder), plus they were as efficient as they were ruthless. They killed the mentally ill, handicapped, and the gay, and their dissenters, so in one sense they were the ultimate anti-liberals even if they hadn't mass murdered Jews also. And there was a definite comic book villiany to them: they invented and put into use all kinds of new villainous war stuff from the Blitz to V-weapons to jet aircraft, and had an effective and complicated propaganda organ and excellent sense of theater, all the way from the color of the uniforms to the archetecture and the huge Nuremburg torchlight rallies. Hitler was a big Wagner fan, so you can see how that worked. I'm tempted to suggest the Nazis were into "guerilla theater," but simply on a mass scale.

Okay, take all that, and you get the chance to have the ultimate evil villains. Not just a murderously efficient agenda against the helpless, but also technologically advanced with a great sense of presentation and drahwma. Thus, they can employed for nearly any rhetorical purpose. If your enemy is besting you in the propaganda and drama game (LaRouche, say), or even in the invention department, you can always compare him to the Third Reich. In every large public argument, there are bound to be some Jews, who naturally hate the Nazis worst of all villains in history, who will be especially tempted to do this.

Thus, Godwin's law. A metaphor for badness that flexible, hardly ever misses a chance to be used as a weapon by anyone who thinks their intellectual opponent is insufficiently liberal or flexible in any way.


• Bull •

It has to do with very specific distinguishing features of Nazi and Fascist mindsets that people just naturally detect in embryo whenever they do the ultrasound on WikiPrägnanz.

Jon Image

Posted by: EricBarbour

Annnnd what do we have today?.......

QUOTE
Sophie/User:XAL
This user has been sending weird-arse stuff to the AC as well.
Fred Bauder looked over it and considered her so goddamn patently
insane and disruptive that he blocked her username and IP indefinitely
to save drawing out the agony. I find it hard to see any reason to
reverse this. At least Plautus Satire could act sane for the first
five minutes - David Gerard 09:19, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Forgive my stupid, but there's almost nothing about XAL on the
Review, and WP has purged almost every discussion. What evil horror
was she accused of committing, other than getting into it with Bishonen?

What a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair to get into a ban-war over.....
but then, it's par for the course.

Posted by: GlassBeadGame

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Thu 12th February 2009, 2:06pm) *


• Bull •

It has to do with very specific distinguishing features of Nazi and Fascist mindsets that people just naturally detect in embryo whenever they do the ultrasound on WikiPrägnanz.

Jon Image



The first known violator of Godwin's Law was Erich Fromm in 1941. He still has a thing of two to offer social media.

Posted by: Kato

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 4:31pm) *

QUOTE(tarantino @ Wed 11th February 2009, 9:21pm) *

QUOTE(Random832 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 1:46pm) *

No, but it's possible you're being manipulated by those who have set themselves up as his enemies.


I wonder who has been http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pedro&oldid=269625567#Comments_at_Lar.27s_election?

Wow. Pedro is becoming increasingly uncivil and unapproachable.

Does this Pedro guy actually write any content? Or does he just vandal hunt and bicker with others?

Posted by: Bottled_Spider

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 4:31pm) *
Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?

Deep down, the way they want to see themselves (and to be seen by others) slips and they see themselves as they really are.
QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:00pm) *
Does this Pedro guy actually write any content? Or does he just vandal hunt and bicker with others?

He seems to be an intense little shit. I'd say he just vandal hunts and bickers with others.

Posted by: LaraLove

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 12th February 2009, 12:24pm) *

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:58am) *

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Thu 12th February 2009, 11:56am) *

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Thu 12th February 2009, 9:31am) *

Also, why do people always bring up the Nazis?

Godwin's Law

Yes, yes, I know. biggrin.gif But it doesn't explain why!

<snip>

Thank you, Milton!

QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 12th February 2009, 6:00pm) *

Does this Pedro guy actually write any content? Or does he just vandal hunt and bicker with others?

I don't think Pedro does much in the area of content creation. http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Pedro&site=en.wikipedia.org. He's more into RFA and other site politics.

Posted by: Eva Destruction

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Fri 13th February 2009, 3:30pm) *

I don't think Pedro does much in the area of content creation. http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/Tool1/wannabe_kate?username=Pedro&site=en.wikipedia.org. He's more into RFA and other site politics.

Wannabe Kate doesn't work properly any more; http://toolserver.org/~soxred93/count/index.php?name=Pedro&lang=en&wiki=wikipedia are Pedro's actual stats.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

Could some Intrepid Mod please split off all the posts that don't have to do with Kelly's blog?

Just for one instance, there's a whole subplop about someone called Pedro that starts at Post 31, but I don't see any mention of Pedro on Kelly's blog.

You'd almost think that this was some deliberate campaign on the part of Wikipediots to prevent anyone whatever in the Real World from following what's actually important here.

Jon hrmph.gif

Posted by: Doc glasgow

QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th February 2009, 1:26pm) *

For followers of the inside play, the comments by Gerard and Raul about Bishonen back in 2005 indicate the rift that ultimately exploded again this year - when Bishonen banned FT2, and eventually saw him having to resign, humiliated.

It was all to get back at David Gerard, and was another act in these tedious Giano wars.

People who supported Bishonen, thinking that the anti-FT2 stuff was a noble act of justice-fighting, were completely duped.

There's a lot of it about at the moment.

Lately, people were duped to attack FT2 who had become the mark, using Peter Damian's complaints as their cover. Gameplayers like Bishonen, Giano and SlimVirgin were all at it, and too many people - including Reviewers here - fell for it.

It is still going on now with the attacks on Lar, another mark who challenged the "wrong people" last year. Basically, we're watching a long drawn out Revenge Drama, orchestrated by the same old manipulators as always.



Trying to get an understanding the history of the personality stuff behind the Giano wars is probably as pointless and boring as trying to unravel the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Schleswig-Holstein, of which one will recall Lord Palmerston said only three people understood: one was the Prince Concert, who was dead, the other was insane, and the third was himself, who'd forgotten about it entirely.

Well, I'm perhaps one of the three who recalls the beginning of this soap opera, which includes such episodes as the "fall of Kelly Martin" and the beginnings of arbcom's long fall to uselessness. I'm just not sure who the other two are, and I'm not sure if I'm the one who is dead, insane, or amnesiac. Giano recalls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Giano/Arbitration_Cases Now, perhaps someone should interview all the main players and write an heroic epic. Irrelevant, perhaps, but it would serve as a reminder as to just how petty inteligent people can be. Homer and [[Gilgamesh]] move over.

Posted by: Sarcasticidealist

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 13th February 2009, 10:18am) *
You'd almost think that this was some deliberate campaign on the part of Wikipediots to prevent anyone whatever in the Real World from following what's actually important here.
Or that unmoderated slow speed communication with multiple involved parties, of the sort seen on internet message boards, often veers radically off-topic relatively quickly. Your choice, really.

Posted by: Doc glasgow

QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Fri 13th February 2009, 5:51pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 13th February 2009, 10:18am) *
You'd almost think that this was some deliberate campaign on the part of Wikipediots to prevent anyone whatever in the Real World from following what's actually important here.
Or that unmoderated slow speed communication with multiple involved parties, of the sort seen on internet message boards, often veers radically off-topic relatively quickly. Your choice, really.


It's NOT paranoia when they really are out to get you!!!! fear.gif

Posted by: everyking

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 13th February 2009, 6:45pm) *

Well, I'm perhaps one of the three who recalls the beginning of this soap opera, which includes such episodes as the "fall of Kelly Martin" and the beginnings of arbcom's long fall to uselessness. I'm just not sure who the other two are, and I'm not sure if I'm the one who is dead, insane, or amnesiac. Giano recalls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Giano/Arbitration_Cases Now, perhaps someone should interview all the main players and write an heroic epic. Irrelevant, perhaps, but it would serve as a reminder as to just how petty inteligent people can be. Homer and [[Gilgamesh]] move over.


I think you qualify as "dead", because you've become completely irrelevant. Anyway, I've been around for all of this junk, and I remember it all...do I fall under "insane"?

Posted by: LaraLove

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 13th February 2009, 11:18am) *

You'd almost think that this was some deliberate campaign on the part of Wikipediots to prevent anyone whatever in the Real World from following what's actually important here.

Jon hrmph.gif

Or maybe it's that there's not jack interesting going on in the blog and people naturally segue into other topics.

O, look. Gerard said "Ahh, yep." Frame that for posterity.

Posted by: Random832

QUOTE(Sarcasticidealist @ Fri 13th February 2009, 5:51pm) *

Or that unmoderated slow speed communication with multiple involved parties, of the sort seen on internet message boards, often veers radically off-topic relatively quickly. Your choice, really.


And unmoderated high-speed communication can veer even more off-topic even more quickly than would be implied by the increase in relative speed, because it's perceived as "cheap" (especially with easy context-switching enabled by quote blocks, whose invention I'm convinced forever doomed the idea of keeping a discussion to a single topic at a time)

Posted by: Doc glasgow

QUOTE(everyking @ Fri 13th February 2009, 5:57pm) *

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Fri 13th February 2009, 6:45pm) *

Well, I'm perhaps one of the three who recalls the beginning of this soap opera, which includes such episodes as the "fall of Kelly Martin" and the beginnings of arbcom's long fall to uselessness. I'm just not sure who the other two are, and I'm not sure if I'm the one who is dead, insane, or amnesiac. Giano recalls http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Giano/Arbitration_Cases Now, perhaps someone should interview all the main players and write an heroic epic. Irrelevant, perhaps, but it would serve as a reminder as to just how petty inteligent people can be. Homer and [[Gilgamesh]] move over.


I think you qualify as "dead", because you've become completely irrelevant. Anyway, I've been around for all of this junk, and I remember it all...do I fall under "insane"?


"Become" irrelevant. Why, thanks. That implies I was once otherwise, before I became as you. wink.gif

Posted by: Moulton

Cuss and Defect

Do I loathe you because you're reprehensible?
Or are you reprehensible because I loathe you?

Do I fight you because you're blunderful?
Or are you blunderful because I fight you?

Do I pwn you because you're such a fool?
Or are you such a fool because I pwned you?

Are you the nightmare of Franz Kafka's dream?
Or are you really as ridiculous as you seem?

[Music by Rodger That; Lyrics by Oscar Banhammer II.]

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 13th February 2009, 10:33am) *

Are you the nightmare of Franz Kafka's dream?
Or are you really as ridiculous as you seem?

What he said.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

Dear Mods,

There is so much garbage on this thread now that it's a positive disincentive to anyone trying to read it for the sake of intelligent comment or discussion on the topic in the title.

Please empty the trash to the Lounge or Tarpit, as appropriate.

Thanks,

Jon Image

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Wed 11th February 2009, 2:05am) *

FT2 may have made a couple of POV edits to some article awhile ago


That is the biggest load of bullshit I have heard on this forum for a year. Get your facts straight.

Posted by: everyking

I hope we see some more updates soon, because it's been five or six days since anything was posted, and none of what's gone up so far is remotely interesting. Kelly, if you don't have time to publish all of the e-mails, please feel free to just skip past the inconsequential stuff.

Posted by: Abd

Where is wikileaks when we need them?

The blog with Kelly Martin's Revealed Sekrits of the ArbComm Cabal Mailing List doesn't exist any more, the link that starts this thread is dead.

Posted by: Abd

QUOTE(everyking @ Wed 18th February 2009, 1:43am) *
I hope we see some more updates soon, because it's been five or six days since anything was posted, and none of what's gone up so far is remotely interesting. Kelly, if you don't have time to publish all of the e-mails, please feel free to just skip past the inconsequential stuff.
That was probably too much work.

ArbComm had no problem with publication of the EEML mailing list archive, apparently hacked or revealed by a mole, and with pouring over it to find salacious tidbits and rotting trouts with which to whack subscribers. Turnabout is fair play....

The whole thing should have been put up, to be useful. And then anyone could look over it for the juicy bits, as ArbComm did with the EEML list, probably breaking the law as they did it. Recently, didn't an arbitrator claim that arbitrators did not make accusations? There was a blatant counterexample.