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> Rlevse returned, Has Rlevse returned to plague FAC?
chrisoff
post Thu 2nd February 2012, 6:50pm
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Raul addes sockpuppet tag to BarkingMoon - tho there's no evidence he's Rlevse's sockpuppet
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EricBarbour
post Thu 2nd February 2012, 8:36pm
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QUOTE(TungstenCarbide @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 8:26am) *

Oh, and by the way, Tnxman307 is a Bastard. He made me reboot my modem and get a new account - I want those 45 seconds of my life back, dammit.

Tnxman is another "evil patroller". Blocking people forever seems to make his little pee-pee hard.

This thread is veering toward Annex material. You folks are talking about Raul and SandyGeorgia as if they were "celebrities". Not recommended.
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chrisoff
post Thu 2nd February 2012, 8:54pm
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Not as celebrities, but as chronic abusers of power and purveyors of corruption that serve to drive other editors away and contribute to the nasty atmosphere at wp.

Here are Raul654 and Moni3 tag teaming to label PumpkinSky as a sock of Rlevse

Rlevse has been an enormous positive contributor to wp, whatever his human faults. Treating him this way diminishes wp.

And as someone said above, at this point many/most new editors that are able to stick it out are socks anyway, this is an exercise in vindictiveness.

This ganging up on particular editors is unseemly, merely because of a personal grudge.
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Peter Damian
post Thu 2nd February 2012, 8:58pm
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 8:54pm) *

Rlevse has been an enormous positive contributor to wp


How exactly? You mean the 'Awesome Wikipedian' awards?
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EricBarbour
post Thu 2nd February 2012, 9:04pm
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QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 12:58pm) *

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 8:54pm) *

Rlevse has been an enormous positive contributor to wp
How exactly? You mean the 'Awesome Wikipedian' awards?

evilgrin.gif
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chrisoff
post Thu 2nd February 2012, 10:59pm
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 4:04pm) *

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 12:58pm) *

QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 8:54pm) *

Rlevse has been an enormous positive contributor to wp
How exactly? You mean the 'Awesome Wikipedian' awards?

evilgrin.gif


Well, ok, I received an "Awesome Wikipedian Award".

But also, just look at the kerfufle that SandyGeorgia kicked up about copyvio:

Wikipedia:Contributor copyright investigations/PumpkinSky

Look at the huge number of edits PumpkinSky made (whether or not it is Relvse). Nothing so far has been found to be a major problem. Just because PumpkinSky disagreed with Raul and SandyGeorgia. Really? It's for the good of the 'pedia?
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SB_Johnny
post Thu 2nd February 2012, 11:39pm
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QUOTE(chrisoff @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 5:59pm) *

Well, ok, I received an "Awesome Wikipedian Award

Good for you. Thread annexed, per [[WR:ANNEX]]. rolleyes.gif
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Cla68
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 1:57am
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Why were these edits oversighted?
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Alison
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 2:59am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 5:57pm) *

Why were these edits oversighted?

They weren't, but they were revdel'd.
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mbz1
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 4:04am
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OMG
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Cla68
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 4:37am
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In the email exchange, Will Beback threatens Rlevse that if he doesn't leave the project, Will will publicly release details he dug up about Wikipedia editing by Rlevse's wife. Rlevse, understandably angered by the threat, then curses at Will Beback.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Fri 3rd February 2012, 4:38am
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radek
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 5:10am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 10:37pm) *

In the email exchange, Will Beback threatens Rlevse that if he doesn't leave the project, Will will publicly release details he dug up about Wikipedia editing by Rlevse's wife. Rlevse, understandably angered by the threat, then curses at Will Beback.


This is unnerving. I'm actually starting to feel bad for Rlevse, or at least his wife. And I certainly don't like him, and I especially didn't like him when he was on ArbCom running around yelling about "banned means banned" and being a generally abusive asshole. Now that he's down on the ground though... yeah, I feel a little bad for him - some kind of boyscout code or someting. Especially since I'm not too keen on some of the other players on the other side of this equation and how they've acted. And no, I don't mean Sandy... oh ok, lemme say it, I mean Will Beback. And then I don't really like Cla's opportunistic questions to Will either which have more to do with grudges (however well deserved) than what this is really about... gee, I guess I just don't like anybody on there.

A plague on all six houses, and someone should probably point out to Rlevse personally that it's about time he made it official, made a real account here and started spilling the goodies under his Wikipedia name.
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Cla68
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 5:30am
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Here is the email exchange which was revdeleted:

Rlevse:
Will Beback sent this to me and I refuse to condone blackmail. Note I have twice in this thread asked him to leave me alone and yet he persists. The full thread is presented below with personal email redacted. Since he refuses to wait for Arbcom to handle this, which is what I wanted, I feel I have no other recourse other than to post here since he's clearly stated he will make the alleged posts without waiting for arbcom. He also appears to be ignoring an AN thread about me being banned where not banning is the clear consensus. Does this mean Will alone decides who edits and doesn't edit wiki and under only his conditions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



· Thanks for admitting you were in shanigans behind my back! And AC was in on it!

You are now blocked from my email account. So don't bother sending me things again.

R



· ---- Will Beback <will's email> wrote:

The ArbCom is already aware of these allegations, which we all agreed need > not be aired publicly so long as Rlevse did not return, and which > NewYorkBrad told me would be dealt with if Rlevse should return. > > There is no question that Rlevse has returned, although the current account > has been blocked. > > Despite my request, Rlevse has not committed to not returning again. > Therefore these issues should be dealt with publicly to prevent a repeat. > > -Will >

Rlevse: I readily admitted I am PSKY so what's the news? I am not BM as you and others claim. > >You haven't violated anything? HA. Try blackmail of me. Hounding and stalking of >others, etc. >Now that your blackmail backfired, go for it. But be careful, it could and >should backfire on you. >AC--you have full notice of this. >Will--leave me alone, no, don't leave me alone, it'll be more proof of how you >hound and stalk other editors. >R

· ---- Will Beback <will's email> wrote:
> Ah, so it is you. > > I haven't engaged in any "shenanigans". I haven't violated any Wikipedia > policies, in letter or spirit. > > Since you do not seem to care about the issue, I will post a full account > of your work as a bureaucrat and the participation of JoJo. > > See also: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bur...#Rename_un-vani shed_editor > > >

Rlevse: Will: Proof I called your bluf and sent this to arbcom and am not afraid of you. > > > > Now you leave me alone. > > > > R


· > > ---- r's email wrote:
> > > Just so you guys know...do or not do what you want. All I ask for is a > > receipt that this was received and read. > > > > > > R > > >


· > > > > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:35:10 -0500

> > > > From: <r's email> > > > > To: will's email > > > > Subject: Re: Wikipedia Rlevse > > > > > > > > And OBTW, I've sent this attempt at blackmail to arbcom. > > > > > > > >


· > > > > ---- r's email wrote:

> > > > > You are so full of shit and the biggest hypocrit ever. Your threats > > don't scare me. The good thing this every day more and more people become > > aware of your shenanigans. You can kiss my ass. > > > > > > > > > >


· > > > > > ---- Will Beback <Will's email> wrote:

> > > > > > After your original departure, I participated in the clean-up > > effort to address your many problem edits. As part of that effort I came > > across your history of closing AFDs as a bureaucrat, in particular those in > > which user:JoJo participated. I have not discussed this matter publicly, as > > I thought that there was no point in dragging your name through the mud if > > you'd left the project. But if you keep returning then the whole "RTV" > > thing was just a deception too and I will air it publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you've returned once, and possibly twice, without > > transparency I am now looking for an assurance from you that you will not > > do so again. Please reply at your earliest convenience. Otherwise I'll > > assume this is part of an ongoing pattern which is likely to be repeated, > > and act accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Will > > > > > >
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Cla68
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 5:52am
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QUOTE(radek @ Fri 3rd February 2012, 5:10am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 10:37pm) *

In the email exchange, Will Beback threatens Rlevse that if he doesn't leave the project, Will will publicly release details he dug up about Wikipedia editing by Rlevse's wife. Rlevse, understandably angered by the threat, then curses at Will Beback.


This is unnerving. I'm actually starting to feel bad for Rlevse, or at least his wife. And I certainly don't like him, and I especially didn't like him when he was on ArbCom running around yelling about "banned means banned" and being a generally abusive asshole. Now that he's down on the ground though... yeah, I feel a little bad for him - some kind of boyscout code or someting. Especially since I'm not too keen on some of the other players on the other side of this equation and how they've acted. And no, I don't mean Sandy... oh ok, lemme say it, I mean Will Beback. And then I don't really like Cla's opportunistic questions to Will either which have more to do with grudges (however well deserved) than what this is really about... gee, I guess I just don't like anybody on there.

A plague on all six houses, and someone should probably point out to Rlevse personally that it's about time he made it official, made a real account here and started spilling the goodies under his Wikipedia name.


I suspect that Rlevse would like to return to editing WP without being forced to grovel as Raul654 and others would probably require him to do otherwise, and is the usual procedure with indef blocked or RTV editors.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Fri 3rd February 2012, 6:01am
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Vigilant
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 6:01am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 3rd February 2012, 5:30am) *

Here is the email exchange which was revdeleted:

Rlevse:
Will Beback sent this to me and I refuse to condone blackmail. Note I have twice in this thread asked him to leave me alone and yet he persists. The full thread is presented below with personal email redacted. Since he refuses to wait for Arbcom to handle this, which is what I wanted, I feel I have no other recourse other than to post here since he's clearly stated he will make the alleged posts without waiting for arbcom. He also appears to be ignoring an AN thread about me being banned where not banning is the clear consensus. Does this mean Will alone decides who edits and doesn't edit wiki and under only his conditions?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



· Thanks for admitting you were in shanigans behind my back! And AC was in on it!

You are now blocked from my email account. So don't bother sending me things again.

R



· ---- Will Beback <will's email> wrote:

The ArbCom is already aware of these allegations, which we all agreed need > not be aired publicly so long as Rlevse did not return, and which > NewYorkBrad told me would be dealt with if Rlevse should return. > > There is no question that Rlevse has returned, although the current account > has been blocked. > > Despite my request, Rlevse has not committed to not returning again. > Therefore these issues should be dealt with publicly to prevent a repeat. > > -Will >

Rlevse: I readily admitted I am PSKY so what's the news? I am not BM as you and others claim. > >You haven't violated anything? HA. Try blackmail of me. Hounding and stalking of >others, etc. >Now that your blackmail backfired, go for it. But be careful, it could and >should backfire on you. >AC--you have full notice of this. >Will--leave me alone, no, don't leave me alone, it'll be more proof of how you >hound and stalk other editors. >R

· ---- Will Beback <will's email> wrote:
> Ah, so it is you. > > I haven't engaged in any "shenanigans". I haven't violated any Wikipedia > policies, in letter or spirit. > > Since you do not seem to care about the issue, I will post a full account > of your work as a bureaucrat and the participation of JoJo. > > See also: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Bur...#Rename_un-vani shed_editor > > >

Rlevse: Will: Proof I called your bluf and sent this to arbcom and am not afraid of you. > > > > Now you leave me alone. > > > > R


· > > ---- r's email wrote:
> > > Just so you guys know...do or not do what you want. All I ask for is a > > receipt that this was received and read. > > > > > > R > > >


· > > > > Date: Thu, 2 Feb 2012 18:35:10 -0500

> > > > From: <r's email> > > > > To: will's email > > > > Subject: Re: Wikipedia Rlevse > > > > > > > > And OBTW, I've sent this attempt at blackmail to arbcom. > > > > > > > >


· > > > > ---- r's email wrote:

> > > > > You are so full of shit and the biggest hypocrit ever. Your threats > > don't scare me. The good thing this every day more and more people become > > aware of your shenanigans. You can kiss my ass. > > > > > > > > > >


· > > > > > ---- Will Beback <Will's email> wrote:

> > > > > > After your original departure, I participated in the clean-up > > effort to address your many problem edits. As part of that effort I came > > across your history of closing AFDs as a bureaucrat, in particular those in > > which user:JoJo participated. I have not discussed this matter publicly, as > > I thought that there was no point in dragging your name through the mud if > > you'd left the project. But if you keep returning then the whole "RTV" > > thing was just a deception too and I will air it publicly. > > > > > > > > > > > > Since you've returned once, and possibly twice, without > > transparency I am now looking for an assurance from you that you will not > > do so again. Please reply at your earliest convenience. Otherwise I'll > > assume this is part of an ongoing pattern which is likely to be repeated, > > and act accordingly. > > > > > > > > > > > > -Will > > > > > >


Vaguely reminiscent of the FT2 blackmail thing.

So, wikistalking and blackmail...

Nothing's too shitty for the regulars.
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radek
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 6:04am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 11:52pm) *

QUOTE(radek @ Fri 3rd February 2012, 5:10am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 10:37pm) *

In the email exchange, Will Beback threatens Rlevse that if he doesn't leave the project, Will will publicly release details he dug up about Wikipedia editing by Rlevse's wife. Rlevse, understandably angered by the threat, then curses at Will Beback.


This is unnerving. I'm actually starting to feel bad for Rlevse, or at least his wife. And I certainly don't like him, and I especially didn't like him when he was on ArbCom running around yelling about "banned means banned" and being a generally abusive asshole. Now that he's down on the ground though... yeah, I feel a little bad for him - some kind of boyscout code or someting. Especially since I'm not too keen on some of the other players on the other side of this equation and how they've acted. And no, I don't mean Sandy... oh ok, lemme say it, I mean Will Beback. And then I don't really like Cla's opportunistic questions to Will either which have more to do with grudges (however well deserved) than what this is really about... gee, I guess I just don't like anybody on there.

A plague on all six houses, and someone should probably point out to Rlevse personally that it's about time he made it official, made a real account here and started spilling the goodies under his Wikipedia name.


I suspect that Rlevse would like to return to editing WP without being forced to grovel as Raul654 and others would probably require him to do otherwise, and is the usual procedure with indef blocked editors.


Yup. But in the big scheme of things he's not exactly the kind of former Wiki editor one can muster much sympathy for. Sort of like Rodhullandemu but different issues. I dunno, it's just a faction fight among the inner circle. I'm not sure why we should give a shit. Probably just annex it.
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Cla68
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 6:54am
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QUOTE(radek @ Fri 3rd February 2012, 6:04am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 11:52pm) *

QUOTE(radek @ Fri 3rd February 2012, 5:10am) *

QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 10:37pm) *

In the email exchange, Will Beback threatens Rlevse that if he doesn't leave the project, Will will publicly release details he dug up about Wikipedia editing by Rlevse's wife. Rlevse, understandably angered by the threat, then curses at Will Beback.


This is unnerving. I'm actually starting to feel bad for Rlevse, or at least his wife. And I certainly don't like him, and I especially didn't like him when he was on ArbCom running around yelling about "banned means banned" and being a generally abusive asshole. Now that he's down on the ground though... yeah, I feel a little bad for him - some kind of boyscout code or someting. Especially since I'm not too keen on some of the other players on the other side of this equation and how they've acted. And no, I don't mean Sandy... oh ok, lemme say it, I mean Will Beback. And then I don't really like Cla's opportunistic questions to Will either which have more to do with grudges (however well deserved) than what this is really about... gee, I guess I just don't like anybody on there.

A plague on all six houses, and someone should probably point out to Rlevse personally that it's about time he made it official, made a real account here and started spilling the goodies under his Wikipedia name.


I suspect that Rlevse would like to return to editing WP without being forced to grovel as Raul654 and others would probably require him to do otherwise, and is the usual procedure with indef blocked editors.


Yup. But in the big scheme of things he's not exactly the kind of former Wiki editor one can muster much sympathy for. Sort of like Rodhullandemu but different issues. I dunno, it's just a faction fight among the inner circle. I'm not sure why we should give a shit. Probably just annex it.


About the Will Beback stuff. Will Beback says he notified the Committee about the Jojo stuff and they (specifically NewYorkBrad) said they would address it if Rlevse returned. Rlevse returned. Will neglected to remember that ArbCom had said they would handle it (if, in fact, they really said or meant that) and jumped right into it, utilizing WP's old school methods of intimidation, coercion, and threats of wiki-humiliation, with which he appears to be familiar.

You have to understand it from Will's perspective. It was his information. He found it! It belonged to him to utilize it as he saw fit. It fits in with what Kelly Martin has said in this forum about Wikipedians using and trading information for their personal agendas.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Fri 3rd February 2012, 6:55am
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Peter Damian
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 8:30am
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QUOTE

This is a risk we have in permitting husbands and wives to edit, other couples, Lar/Josette, Balloonman/Ginko, J.delanoy/Thingg (brothers) all come to mind. I would be interested to see the close calls Will mentions above, not with an eye towards going back and changing the outcome, but with the goal of learning how we can better identify groups of !voters and attempt to find a way to discount groups we can clearly see are meatpuppets of each other. MBisanz talk 02:48, 3 February 2012 (UTC)


You could extend this principle in all sorts of ways, even into real life. You could say e.g. that when different people belong to the same political party, and clearly vote not because of specific issues but simply because they trust the party they are voting for, then this is 'meatpuppeting'. It violates the 'crowdsourcing' principle that every actor in the game must act on the basis of issues and content alone, and not other things like trust, personal relationships, geography etc. This way we could ban all political parties whatsoever.

Ideally, there would just be one party, the Wikipedia party, and any vote against that party is punishable by banning, execution, imprisonment, forcible dismemberment and disembowelling. The possibilities are endless and interesting, as well as entertaining. Let's have some more of this please.

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post Fri 3rd February 2012, 11:22am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 3rd February 2012, 1:54am) *

About the Will Beback stuff. Will Beback says he notified the Committee about the Jojo stuff and they (specifically NewYorkBrad) said they would address it if Rlevse returned. Rlevse returned. Will neglected to remember that ArbCom had said they would handle it (if, in fact, they really said or meant that) and jumped right into it, utilizing WP's old school methods of intimidation, coercion, and threats of wiki-humiliation, with which he appears to be familiar.

You have to understand it from Will's perspective. It was his information. He found it! It belonged to him to utilize it as he saw fit. It fits in with what Kelly Martin has said in this forum about Wikipedians using and trading information for their personal agendas.

Meanwhile, it seems that at least one of the arbitrators might see this as the last straw. I was just starting to wonder why we hadn't heard about the Timidguy/Beback thing, but apparently there was more evidence coming in.
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A Horse With No Name
post Fri 3rd February 2012, 2:16pm
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 2nd February 2012, 11:37pm) *

In the email exchange, Will Beback threatens Rlevse that if he doesn't leave the project, Will will publicly release details he dug up about Wikipedia editing by Rlevse's wife. Rlevse, understandably angered by the threat, then curses at Will Beback.


Let's cut to the chase: anyone got some bikini photos of Rlevse's wife? evilgrin.gif
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