Racism, On Wikipedia Options

[Selina]

The fact that mentioning "jew" around some people is enough to start them into a rant about "zionists and israel" pretty much says it all.

It's exactly the same thing as people who just need the tiniest excuse to go off on one about how bad <insert-race-here> people are...

[nableezy]

The fact that mentioning "jew" around some people is enough to start them into a rant about "zionists and israel" pretty much says it all.

And where pray tell did this happen?

[Emperor]

And where pray tell did this happen?

SOCK SOCK SOCK SOCK SOCK SOCK



I'll talk to Eric, or Nableezy. Pick one.

[nableezy]

And where pray tell did this happen?

SOCK SOCK SOCK SOCK SOCK SOCK



I'll talk to Eric, or Nableezy. Pick one.

Confused, but talk, son.

[EricBarbour]

[Emperor]

Anyway Radek, Mr Die, Selina, thank you for your thoughtful responses.

Radek, one of these days we've got to discuss whether it's smart to keep trying to improve Wikipedia. You do realize that by helping, you're making all this subtle neonazi stuff more believable? It's like a perfect breeding ground for them, having normal people around, saying normal things, makes the kids feel safe... and then the racists distort stuff just enough to get their point across.

I already feel bad for pointing out that Bank of America thing.

[radek]

Anyway Radek, Mr Die, Selina, thank you for your thoughtful responses.

Radek, one of these days we've got to discuss whether it's smart to keep trying to improve Wikipedia. You do realize that by helping, you're making all this subtle neonazi stuff more believable? It's like a perfect breeding ground for them, having normal people around, saying normal things, makes the kids feel safe... and then the racists distort stuff just enough to get their point across.

I already feel bad for pointing out that Bank of America thing.

Yeah, that's been bouncing around my head for awhile. The good edits legitimize bad edits. To what extent? At what point does it tip so that good edits do more harm than good?

[radek]

Yeah, I'm aware that only inept types just go out and be like "Hitler was a genius and the Jews got what was coming to them[1] (source: HITLERWASRIGHT DOT COM)," I was just being humorous.

This does remind me, though, of a criticism all the way back in 2005 that still holds just as much today: http://users.erols.com/mwhite28/wikiwoo2.htm#Massacres

This is the big problem with purely volunteer activities. You only get people working on things they care deeply about. In this case, we've had Polish nationalist contributors wanting to show how badly their country has suffered at everybody's hands. (Not just Germans, but Lithuanians, Jews, Ukrainians and Soviets have kicked the Poles around on this list.) We've had neo-Nazi contributors trying to prove that Germany was surrounded by big bad enemies, so of course the Nazis were justified in invading them. We've had anti-American contributors wanting to show that the USA is (and always has been) worse than almost everyone else in history, even worse than the Soviets (7 massacres by Americans versus 1 by the Soviets.). Meanwhile, no one really cares what the Japanese did in Singapore, or what the Italians did in Yugoslavia. ("Whatever. It was a long time ago.")

Oh yeah, I used to really appreciate Mr. White's website. Back in the day before Wikipedia became all encompassing it was the first hit on search engines if you wanted to look up a lot of military history stuff or massacres or wars or whatever. It was/is a "amateurish" (I think) but in a good sense - an "amateur" who knows his stuff, is passionate about it, and can back up his position and ideas with sources. And then he got squeezed out by Wikipedia, whose comparative collection of information is pathetic.

He also tried editing Wikipedia at one point and just gave up, I think. Is this someone I'm supposed to know? Anyone from the present company? (If so I apologize in advance for not being aware).

[Selina]

Malik Zulu Shabazz, leader of the New Black Panther Party, wrote the forward to a new anti-Semitic book, The Synagogue of Satan (2006) - found that when looking at larouche stuff (who is apparently just as bad)

[radek]

Malik Zulu Shabazz, leader of the New Black Panther Party, wrote the forward to a new anti-Semitic book, The Synagogue of Satan (2006) - found that when looking at larouche stuff (who is apparently just as bad)

I don't understand how that is relevant to anything.

[Emperor]

Malik Zulu Shabazz, leader of the New Black Panther Party, wrote the forward to a new anti-Semitic book, The Synagogue of Satan (2006) - found that when looking at larouche stuff (who is apparently just as bad)

I don't understand how that is relevant to anything.

If I chose to name my account, "David Duke", would it mean anything to you?

[Selina]

I wish I didn't know who that was Emperor...

Anyway @radek, look at Malik's userpage

Malik why do you use the name Malcom X chose when he joined the racist Nation of Islam organisation, which he later denounced, and was murdered by, then?

Malcom X, IMDB

The film shows a white student girl who offers her help to Malcolm X and then gets rudely denied. It's actually based on a real-life event about which after leaving NOI Malcolm X regrets, saying "Brother, remember the time that white college girl came into the restaurant - the one who wanted to help the Black Muslims and the whites get together - and I told her there wasn't a ghost of a chance and she went away crying? Well, I've lived to regret that incident. In many parts of the African continent I saw white students helping black people. Something like this kills a lot of argument. I did many things as a Black Muslim that I'm sorry for now. I was a zombie then - like all Black Muslims - I was hypnotized, pointed in a certain direction and told to march. Well, I guess a man's entitled to make a fool of himself if he's ready to pay the cost. It cost me 12 years."

(n.b. the "black muslims" is not a literal meaning, but referring to the political movement, he still supported Islam because he thought that was the best way to peace in his own views) malcolm-x.org/docs/int_parks.htm

I wanted firsthand views of the African leaders -- their problems are inseparable from ours. The cords of bigotry and prejudice here can be cut with the same blade. We have to keep that blade sharp and share it with one another." Now he was sounding like the old Malcolm: "Strangely enough, listening to leaders like Nasser, Ben Bella, and Nkrumah awakened me to the dangers of racism.

I realized racism isn't just a Black and white problem. It's brought bloodbaths to about every nation on earth at one time or another

[radek]

Anyway @radek, look at Malik's userpage

Malik why do you use the name Malcom X chose when he joined the racist Nation of Islam organisation, which he later denounced, and was murdered by, then?

Well, yes, I know who Malik is named after. And yes, I know the story, I've read the autobiography (twice), and tried to watch the movie once or twice. I still don't get it. The other Malik can correct me on this but I'm pretty sure Malcolm X retained the name "Malik Shabazz" even after he left NoI. And he remained a Muslim to the end, just not NoI.

[Selina]

They murdered him only two days later.

[radek]

They murdered him only two days later.

And how does this relate to the Wikipedia Malik Shabazz?

(Edit: Also I'm not sure what the "two days later" refers to. Two days after what?)

This post has been edited by radek: Thu 23rd February 2012, 3:46am

[Selina]

Because he supports them... wikipediareview.com/?showtopic=36931&view=findpost&p=298721

edit: After Malcom X said that.

btw the userbox on my page since 2006 was Malcom X but Tony Sidaway shoved it around then Cyde deleted it "DO NOT RECREATE" -.-

This post has been edited by Selina: Thu 23rd February 2012, 4:02am

[radek]

Because he supports them... wikipediareview.com/?showtopic=36931&view=findpost&p=298721

edit: After Malcom X said that.

I don't think that shows that he "supports them" (though he might, I don't know, he can speak for himself). Other than extensive quotes from yourself, the only Malik quote is:

"start over with a new article, using neutral sources like The Black Muslims in America, The Nation of Islam: Understanding the Black Muslims, Black Muslim Religion in the Nation of Islam, etc."

These would be these three sources.

The first one is a University of North Carolina Press source. I don't think that shows that "Malik supports NoI"

I'm not familiar with the publishers of the other two but they appear to be... Christian publishers. And they do appear to be mainstream, regular and reliable sources.

This post has been edited by radek: Thu 23rd February 2012, 3:56am

[Selina]

I'm not talking about the sources, I'm talking about the words. And I think from Malcom X's words, he'd be pretty sickened to see people defending racist "separatism", as I tried to explain there :|

It's something the neo-nazis know well, if you indoctrinate people when they are young it's hard for them to change their views later

[radek]

I'm not talking about the sources, I'm talking about the words. And I think from Malcom X's words, he'd be pretty sickened to see people defending racist "separatism", as I tried to explain there :|

It's something the neo-nazis know well, if you indoctrinate people when they are young it's hard for them to change their views later

Which words? The admonishment to use neutral sources? You've lost me.

[Selina]

Read the whole post instead of just skimming it then especially the bottom quote :| Unless you're missing the point entirely in which case I just give up