FT2's state visit, So how was it for you? Options

[Peter Damian]

I'm not sure what to make of it. But I won't say anything in any case, because I would like to hear what the uninvolved parties think. (The involved parties being myself, Probivouac, and Docknell - could I ask them not to comment, please).

This post has been edited by Peter Damian: Mon 1st September 2008, 9:07pm

[Carruthers]

I'm not sure what to make of it. But I won't say anything in any case, because I would like to hear what the uninvolved parties think. (The involved parties being myself, Probivouac, and Docknell - could I ask them not to comment, please).

I think that he thought, like quite a few people (Shankers comes to mind) that he could manipulate the WR into doing his bidding...Unfortunately, he wasn't prepared for what he got and what he's getting.

Which is why I think that we're going to see a "run away! run away!" manoeuvre any minute now....

[ThurstonHowell3rd]

I'm not sure what to make of it. But I won't say anything in any case, because I would like to hear what the uninvolved parties think. (The involved parties being myself, Probivouac, and Docknell - could I ask them not to comment, please).

Why does FT2 need to use so many words? FT2's postings are tedious to read and are difficult for people, such as me who are not familiar with the subject, to follow.

This post has been edited by ThurstonHowell3rd: Mon 1st September 2008, 9:16pm

[wikiwhistle]

I'm not sure what to make of it. But I won't say anything in any case, because I would like to hear what the uninvolved parties think. (The involved parties being myself, Probivouac, and Docknell - could I ask them not to comment, please).

Why does FT2 need to use so many words? FT2's postings are tedious to read and are difficult for people, such as me who are not familiar with the subject, to follow.

Lol it could be far worse, less crypic maybe but much longer, see User:Abd.

[Vicky]

I didn't find it very helpful, unless looking into the odder corners of someone's soul is helpful.

[The Joy]

I must admit that I rarely read much of what FT2 says due to "tl:dr", but his level of aggression against Docknell was very surprising, especially for an arbitrator. There's just this bad vibe I get from him. I feel like he's hiding hostility in his verbose speeches. He's very cold and very mechanical in his treatment of people. Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but that's the feeling I've gotten from him and the "Hi (from FT2)" and "Pro's Question" threads.

I think FT2 is a Sith Lord.

(Peter, you do realize that FT2 can see and reply to this thread, right?)

[wikiwhistle]

I must admit that I rarely read much of what FT2 says due to "tl:dr", but his level of aggression against Docknell was very surprising, especially for an arbitrator. There's just this bad vibe I get from him. I feel like he's hiding hostility in his verbose speeches. He's very cold and very mechanical in his treatment of people. Maybe I'm reading him wrong, but that's the feeling I've gotten from him and the "Hi (from FT2)" and "Pro's Question" threads.

I think FT2 is a Sith Lord.

(Peter, you do realize that FT2 can see and reply to this thread, right?)

I was very surprised at his tone towards Docknell and conspiracy theory about him. I agree with your assessment. I was surprised to have him introduce himself with 'hi' even. There is more to him than comes across in writing- (I met him at the Manchester meetup in Feb- I think that's ok to say now as he's open about sometimes being in the UK.)

He's wildly keen about this wikipedia lark, and was very excited about some ideas he had about it. It was mainly a social thing but he was really keen for the admins etc there to get behind his plans. Someone said they met him and it was 'all business'. I asked someone afterwards 'who was that really intense bloke?' (This is't necessarily a criticism, although it's not my personal personality style. )

[Giggy]

I get the feeling that FT2 now knows how people on Wikipedia feel when they are driven away shortly after joining (however justified).

[wikiwhistle]

We didn't block him or anything though, did we? We just had a slightly heated debate

[FT2]

What's this "driven away" idea? I left a message for Greg Kohs when I had to go: "I'm not active online, or here, all day, so there'll routinely be delays between posts - sometimes long ones. Its not avoidance, it's trying to fit all that is needed, in. [...] If you could do me a favor, and forward this to those active in the current threads - I think thats kelly, tarantino, proabivouac, damian, at minimum? Just so that they know what's what."

It wasn't forwarded?
(Maybe Greg didn't see it yet)

This post has been edited by FT2: Tue 2nd September 2008, 4:27am

[One]

I get the vibe that FT2 isn't the lashing-out type. He's not here to feed his ego, nor to chastise us for our fallen state, nor to study us as a Wikilogical curiosity. I've always felt that FT2 is more-or-less on the level in his interactions as an arbitrator, and probably here as well. I realize that's a minority opinion (and I have others--like the notion that Fred Bauder wasn't such a bad arb), but it is my considered opinion. He seemed genuinely concerned about Mantanmoreland, for example. I still count him as second best behind Newyorkbrad.

His acts are not always clever. Proabivouac was honestly wronged, for example, and his recent ArbCom screw-up is well-known, but FT2 seems sincere to me.

[Giggy]

We didn't block him or anything though, did we? We just had a slightly heated debate

Nah, we didn't, but we certainly didn't welcome him with open arms and give him a coffee and slice of cake, either.

[dogbiscuit]

The main really obvious thing is his use of Bellman's Rule of Three. I think he thinks that if he says something often enough then it will be true, regardless of any comments against that position.

On the other hand, I can understand why he would give no quarter to Peter and Docknell given that they are severely on his case. I have an open mind whether he is simply misguidedly naive on NPOV on controversial subjects - the no consequences USENET philosophy that people will evaluate information and come to their own views, in spite of the fact that it is clear that the inability to maintain a NPOV article on controversial subjects demonstrates that it is a fallacy. Clearly, Peter and Docknell are trying to establish whether it is naivety or active promotion.

The main failing of FT2 is that he thinks other people are not as clever as him and that enough obfuscation will allow him to win an argument; I think that it just reduces his stature. I'm not a great one for yes/no answers when it is a world of grey, but as he is playing the political game, there are a few yes's and noes that he should give, even with qualifications. I am not sure those two words are in his vocabulary though.

[Jacina]

I agree with One about FT2.

Although I do agree that I sometimes skip the tl;dr

[wikiwhistle]

I get the vibe that FT2 isn't the lashing-out type. He's not here to feed his ego, nor to chastise us for our fallen state, nor to study us as a Wikilogical curiosity. I've always felt that FT2 is more-or-less on the level in his interactions as an arbitrator, and probably here as well. I realize that's a minority opinion (and I have others--like the notion that Fred Bauder wasn't such a bad arb), but it is my considered opinion. He seemed genuinely concerned about Mantanmoreland, for example. I still count him as second best behind Newyorkbrad.

His acts are not always clever. Proabivouac was honestly wronged, for example, and his recent ArbCom screw-up is well-known, but FT2 seems sincere to me.

FT2's here as a sort of 'public relations' exercise, for himself as much as anyone I expect, after the close of wikimedia uk. While we were discussing his professional capacities and the wikimedia project with which he was involved, was when he turned up. And I can't really blame him.

Don't get me wrong, I think he's chosen to do this himself. He's just doing what he thinks is best. It remains to be seen whether it will work. But FT2's presence may mean he's discussed more nicely than he otherwise would have been. It's a sort of 'damage limitation' IMHO. Are the threads with what might be his real name connected with the close of wikimedia uk tarpitted or no-indexed? If so, it might be nice to make sure he knows as maybe he thinks this will come up in a google search for his name.

[Vicky]

One thing's abundantly clear. The FT2 here did not use British spelling. If he's genuine, either he's a Yank or he's put on an act.

[Jon Awbrey]

I'm not sure what to make of it. But I won't say anything in any case, because I would like to hear what the uninvolved parties think. (The involved parties being myself, Probivouac, and Docknell — could I ask them not to comment, please).

Just by way of a 1st ¼ summary — or is it the ½ … no, guess not, unless the band is off today — anyway, I think it fair to say that All The Involved Parties (ATIPs) have as usual fallen for all the usual gambits of Wikipediot PR.

Butt until the ATIPs (= clue-deprived parties) learn to pull their heads out of Wikipediot posteriors they'll never develop sufficient perspective to reflect on Wikipediot premisses.

Jon

[thekohser]

What's this "driven away" idea? I left a message for Greg Kohs when I had to go: "I'm not active online, or here, all day, so there'll routinely be delays between posts - sometimes long ones. Its not avoidance, it's trying to fit all that is needed, in. [...] If you could do me a favor, and forward this to those active in the current threads - I think thats kelly, tarantino, proabivouac, damian, at minimum? Just so that they know what's what."

It wasn't forwarded?
(Maybe Greg didn't see it yet)

Forwarding PMs on here is a really inefficient way to communicate, and I'm not so sure how to forward to multiple users, anyway. I do think I forwarded the note to Kelly Martin and to Peter Damian, but I couldn't fathom how to forward to more than "primary" and "other" recipient.

Oh, and I only got around to it this morning.

As I said, really inefficient.

And, why me? Do I look like John E. Potter?

Greg

[Kelly Martin]

Forwarding PMs on here is a really inefficient way to communicate, and I'm not so sure how to forward to multiple users, anyway. I do think I forwarded the note to Kelly Martin and to Peter Damian, but I couldn't fathom how to forward to more than "primary" and "other" recipient.

Oh, and I only got around to it this morning.

As I said, really inefficient.

I don't recalll getting any such message. Not that I really expect Greg to act as a social director for WR; I certainly haven't named him as my designated agent. It's not my like my email address is a secret, FT2; you can email me any time you want.

[House of Cards]

Nah, we didn't, but we certainly didn't welcome him with open arms and give him a coffee and slice of cake, either.

There's cake?