Piperdown block review, ...very interesting & The Usual Suspects Chime In Options

[Aloft]

By the way, folks, I now have proof positive that Samiharris = Gary Weiss. I'm open to suggestions on the best way to present the evidence.

Sounds newsworthy to me.

[LamontStormstar]

In that thread, SlimVirgin supports sock puppetry:

You see, this is exactly the point of this entire thread. If Piperdown simply wants to edit Wikipedia, all he has to do is power down his modem to get a new IP, and create a new account. If he edits well, no one will know it is him.
But instead what is really wants is a giant fuss. The people who know the background can do one of two things: either we keep quiet, in which case he and his supporters get to rewrite history. Or we speak up, and we end up being targets of more abuse.

On an older thread some other people said Wikipedia and especially SlimVirgin does that because then they can ban anyone they want as a sock puppet of a blocked user just for sharing the same opinion.

[Aloft]

In that thread, SlimVirgin supports sock puppetry

I suppose Piperdown could follow her advice and start a new account, so later he could get checkusered and blocked by JayJG for being a banned editor evading his ban. Then the next time his unblock review came up, SlimVirgin could say things like, "He used sockpuppets to evade his ban! He clearly has no respect for our rules." Fairly typical tactics for her. Thankfully more and more people are seeing it for the B.S. that it is.

Soon she'll start being disappointed in everyone in the discussion. "It's disappointing that so many of our admins support harassment and banned users. I'm so disappointed." It's part of her manipulative tactics; after all, no one wants someone to be disappointed in them! Just like Mommy and Daddy used to say when you did something naughty. She's so disappointed.

[Castle Rock]

zing!

I have an idea. Why don't we do a checkuser on everyone in this thread and see who is using sockpuppets and who isn't? What do you say, Mantanmoreland? —Viriditas | Talk 05:29, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

To put my point more systematically, here's a numbered list. Apologies in advance to people who object to the terminology:

1. Is Piperdown a meatpuppet?
2. If so, does proxying for a banned user for a while make it okay?
3. If not, was the account's conduct okay in other ways?

I'm not sure about no. 1, although I have a hunch there's merit to it. No. 2 is demonstrated by the arbcom decision I cited. As for 3 - I think the ban was merited. As a standard rule I'll support an unblock after six months if an editor doesn't evade a ban on socks and refrains from bashing Wikipedia at offsite fora. Sometimes I've reduced that on good faith when I see evidence that the person has turned over a new leaf. The leaf hasn't turned. And I ask both sides to turn down the heat on this discussion. DurovaCharge! 05:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Maybe someone should remind Durova that by their own admission, the Arbitration Committee doesn't set precedents.

This post has been edited by Castle Rock: Sat 26th January 2008, 5:40am

[WordBomb]

By the way, folks, I now have proof positive that Samiharris = Gary Weiss. I'm open to suggestions on the best way to present the evidence.

A ha! This is perfect...Weiss apparently read my earlier post (noting that I had proof that he's Samiharris), likely retraced his steps and realized how I did it, quickly squatted out a blog post denying it, but is now back to using Mantanmoreland, anyway.

Sorry to go OT on y'all. I just love watching Weiss get all frantic and silly like this.

[Aloft]

Oh dear, now SlimVirgin is edit warring on WP:AN to keep reinserting material imported from WR. How incredibly hypocritical. Doesn't she always tell us how that information could be privately emailed if needed? She'd better be careful, I'd hate to see her blocked by ElinorD or Crum375. That would be so disappointing.

Now Crum375 has stepped in to tag team with Slim on her edit warring. Shocking, I know.

This post has been edited by Aloft: Sat 26th January 2008, 6:38am

[Amarkov]

Apparently Jehochman has learned nothing from the Durova case; he's now declared that complaints must be directed to Arbcom.

[Moulton]

It's hard to follow all this palace intrigue without a libretto and a copy of Cliff's Notes.

[Saltimbanco]

Speaking of Cliff Notes, can I get a plot refresher from someone?

Was SlimeVinegar interested in the Overstock/Weiss/etc. matter solely because Patrick Byrne unwittingly mocked her switch to a British accent at Cambridge so many years ago? I think that's entirely possible: for Slime, everything is personal, and her Wikipedia participation seems to have been informed largely by events from that time of her life. But is there something else? Some path that a more normal, more healthy person might have followed into the dispute?

[Kato]

This interested me from the discussion :

Cla68 mentions how SlimVirgin accused him of being a puppet of Wordbomb in the past. If you check the diff in question, Slim ends with the statement :

Also, I forgot to say earlier that, judging by some of Cla's edits, he appears to be based in the same state as Wordbomb.

Cla68 lives in Japan.

Similarily, I remember JohnA saying that an IP address which located to Basingstoke in England was blocked as "it seems quite clear to me from your comments here that you are at least affiliated in some way with Bagley".

The whole thing was an absurdity.

[WordBomb]

Speaking of Cliff Notes, can I get a plot refresher from someone?

Was SlimeVinegar interested in the Overstock/Weiss/etc. matter solely because Patrick Byrne unwittingly mocked her switch to a British accent at Cambridge so many years ago? I think that's entirely possible: for Slime, everything is personal, and her Wikipedia participation seems to have been informed largely by events from that time of her life. But is there something else? Some path that a more normal, more healthy person might have followed into the dispute?

Here's how it happened...
On January 23, 2006 Gary Weiss began an assault on Patrick Byrne and others who oppose illegal naked short stock trading. This attack took place on various fronts, including Weiss's blog and book, and anonymously on stock message boards and Wikipedia. (To understand his apparent motive, you can read this)

By Summer of 2006 I had figured out, among other things, that Weiss was Wikipedia editor Mantanmoreland: the primary author of Weiss's article autobiography on Wikipedia. I made, as WordBomb, an admittedly clumsy effort to get the matter dealt with and Mantanmoreland banned from Wikipedia on COI grounds, which involved revealing Mantanmoreland's identity.

Weiss, who had been actively collaborating with SlimVirgin on an effort to get Martin Luther labeled an anti-Semite, ran to her for help. She summarily banned WordBomb.

While searching for more information on this strange SlimVirgin character, I found Wikipedia Review, and learned that SV was thought to be Linda Mack -- an alum of King's College with a personal connection to the bombing of Pan Am 103.

A month or so later, I was telling Patrick Byrne about the strange things I'd encountered on Wikipedia, and mentioned, in passing, details of the person who basically enabled Weiss to maintain control of the articles on naked short selling, Overstock.com and Byrne himself. He told me the Linda Mack/Julian Benello story sounded strangely similar to that of a couple he knew while at King's.

Five minutes later, we both realized that this might be the strangest coincidence either of us had ever heard of.

And as far as I'm concerned, that's all it is...a wildly unlikely coincidence, mostly because, with the exception of the very brief participation of a likely Slim Sock (Irishpunktom), she's had nothing to do with any of these articles before being dragged into things by Weiss.

Fast-forward one year...

On August 22, 2007 I published on AntiSocialMedia.net proof that SlimVirgin had abusively used sock puppets and Jayjg had abused Oversight to cover it up. This caused a bit of a stir, you might say. In response, the Cabal apparently decided to force the issue to ArbCom (as the infamous BADSITES debacle) by first creating an article on me. This happened on September 7.

In order to ensure that they could print whatever irresponsible lies about me they wanted, a monumental and extremely damaging effort was undertaken, which included blocking any IP I might use to edit (including my employer and the entire town of Traverse Mountain, Utah) and indefbanning any editor who might be on hand to correct the record. Because I'd not edited anything on the Wikipedia mainspace in many months, I wasn't affected at all.

On September 8, one of the victim's of Gerard's reign of terror was Piperdown...someone I don't know but suspect would be very agreeable were we to meet. He apparently came over to the anti-naked shorting camp as a shareholder of some non-Overstock.com victim of the practice (there are hundreds, by the way).

So that's the ultra-high level version of how we got here, and why Piperdown is the center of so much attention.

Finally, I'd like to take this opportunity to express my extreme admiration for Cla68. That guy has integrity we can all learn from.

This post has been edited by WordBomb: Sat 26th January 2008, 5:17pm

[Kato]

And as far as I'm concerned, that's all it is...a wildly unlikely coincidence, mostly because, with the exception of the very brief participation of a likely Slim Sock (Irishpunktom)

Just for the record : Irishpunktom is as likely a Sock of Slim as User:Daniel Brandt, Wordbomb.

On September 8, one of the victim's of Gerard's reign of terror was Piperdown...

... which was a purely political move without any due process. By this point, admins weaned on role playing games, sci-fi and goth music were completely out of their depth with the complexities of the case, and were enforcing rogue justice on anyone who walked past.

[Somey]

Weiss, who had been actively collaborating with SlimVirgin on an effort to get Martin Luther labeled an anti-Semite, ran to her for help.

Just so we're clear on this one point, the issue was the insertion of Nazi references in the Luther article itself (in the intro, no less). Nobody is seriously claiming that Luther wasn't anti-semitic - he was, as was most of European society at the time. (He was also anti-Catholic, if I recall correctly.) What we've been saying is that while it may be somewhat acceptable to mention Luther in the article on Nazis, strictly for context, it's not acceptable for the Nazis to be mentioned in the article on Luther. Why not mention all the Protestant denominations and non-Catholic Christian cults and political movements that came into existence after the 16th century too, while you're at it? Not enough space? Hmm. Just because you can find some people (including Lyndon LaRouche!) who make a spurious and nasty claim doesn't make it acceptable to put it in the intro of a major article on a major religious figure on a major website.

Five minutes later, we both realized that this might be the strangest coincidence either of us had ever heard of.

It's only a strange coincidence that Slimmy was a high-ranking WP admin at the time Weiss started participating in WP. Once you get past that, the fact that she'd be interested in Byrne's biography and related articles isn't really a coincidence at all - she would have almost certainly noticed what was going on even without being contacted, and she would have acted according to her pre-existing opinion of Byrne and anyone on WP who might have supported him.

[Piperdown]

Somey, as always, hits the spot. Your WR is suddenly not an unmentionable source on WP any more. Funny how that works, eh? This is indeed a very provacative site, even Slimmy collects (stalks? lol!) my posts from it.

NYB - just remove the ban, delete the subpage, leave the user and talk pages in tact as there is nothing there against WP rules, and I'll place a Retired noticed at the top of both pages, scramble the account password, and begone from WP and WR. I want nothing to do with volunteering my efforts for the profit of the WMF or the sort of people representing it on WP at this time. Pretty clear i think.

For the record, below I willl post all of my emails made to WP administration during the summer of 2007 before and during my ban. Enjoy. There were no responses except from Fred, who as many others on WR, I actually like and have some admiration for, although his sense of humour is, like mine, lost on many.

From: Piperdown
Sent: Tue 3/27/07 2:24 PM
To: <christofurio>
Subject: Wikipedia e-mail

Your edit(s) in the Nocera entry talk page show that you forget to login in on your first post at 1120, then update the post with a link to msn 2 minutes later.

The first post shows you are posting from a Reuters computer. Would you care to disclose this conflict of interest on your user page?

Thanks

piperdown
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Piper Down
to christofurio
date Mar 27, 2007 1:32 PM
subject Re: Wikipedia e-mail

Thanks. So you work for Reuters and "Lipper Hedgeworld"?

I didn't know Reuters employed correspondants who also work for hedge funds. I must be assuming something wrong.

Thanks <christofurio> for the speedy reply.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
from Piper Down
to <christofurio>
date Mar 27, 2007 1:45 PM

Thanks, for some reason you're a lot more intelligent in email than you are on wikipedia. Thanks for clearing up my quick take on your hedge fund themed publication.

Do you have any published articles that can be googled? I'd be happy to update any article with cites from any articles you have.

Nocera has a fantastic journalism career, that someone is using his biography to grind an axe against byrne is pretyy obvious. Perhaps I'll update the Nocera entry with more of his controversial comments, like how Cramer's giving out advice on Mad Money, Clemens is a choke artist, etc. Get my point? He makes a lot of controversial statements. It's what he does, especially to a polarising figure who is targeting certain journalists in the press. Nocera is a stand up guy and he stands up for his friends. We all do.

Just trying to help, there is a group of journalists trolling wikiepedia semi-anonymously in retaliation against Byrne, and I'd hope that any ethical journalist would be fair and objective about the matter, or recuse themselves for COI.

Looking forward to reading your work, cheers.
-piperdown
---------------------------------------------------------------------
from Piperdown
date Apr 16, 2007 8:26 PM
subject Copy of your message to Jayjg: Wikipedia e-mail
mailed-by wikimedia.org

hi Jay,

I'm not "wordbomb" or a "meatpuppet", or even an "aldebaer".

But I do know how to use Google, and how to trace IP addresses on wikiepedia edits, and how to determine sock puppets too. I don't have access to wikipedia checkuser, but thankfully some sloppy editors take care of that anyway by forgetting to log in before editing, as Matanmoreland sometimes does.

So I find it interesting that Wikipedia is allowing Gary Weiss to

a) Create his own biography
B) sockpuppet under names "TomStoner" and "LastExit"
c) Push his books under all 3 or more aliases in wikipedia edits
d) Have his actions protected by an admin with a grad school grudge against his enemies.

I'd think this would make an even more interesting "outing" than Ryan Jordan, don't you? Looking at Jimbo Wales's pre-Essjay cover up of this, I'd say he would find it embarassing as well.

What do you think? I see you're SlimVirgin's checkuserer, so surely you ran the checkusers on Mantanmoreland last year, and surely you were completely honest in your findings with Jimbo, right?

Oh, by the way, Matanmoreland sometimes posts from the DTCC. I find that a COI with editing articles that mention lawsuits against the DTCC, don't you? There's about a dozen more COI's that you and Gary's other handlers know about.

Checkuser is quite a privilege. Could you tell Gary to remember to login before he edits from now on, and please ask him how his "uncle" LastExit, who posts from the same PC he does is doing. I'm worried about him, he hasn't Wikipedia'ed since his nephew announced him.

Keep up the great work, Jay.
-------------------------------------------
from Piper Down
to fredbaud@waterwiki.info,
date Apr 16, 2007 10:03 PM
subject Re: Wikipedia e-mail

What's "over-doing it", then Fred?

Linda and above have banned people for sock puppetry. They've banned them for editing their own bios. They've banned people for spamming. They've banned people for POV-pushing. They banned people for putting real names of wikienemies on their user pages. Gary has done all of those and more.

And for people who care about Wikipedia, they're lucky that Gary Weiss hasn't been Essjay'ed already. The hubris he shows and the guard dog tactics from Linda and "Jay" have only angered people more about the hypocrisy.

And thanks for being willing to use your real name on wikipedia and not having your diff showing that Gary posted as both TomStoner and Mantanmoreland around the time he lied about his "uncle" LastExit.

He's Essjay in the making, Fred, and the in-your-face-ness of his behaviour is appalling. Since Jimbo's on record as being OK with Gary, there's no backing down from his friends all the way up the ladder, is there?

By the way, there's several journalists besides Gary in on his act, some of which have emailed me. They consider themselves beyond wikirules mainly in part to how the Gary Weiss situation has been handled by Jimbo, and that's just plain dangerous to the integrity of wikipedia.

This time, it isn't a weekend in India that prevents Jimbo from getting the full Essjay story to respond properly, it appears to have been almost a year from the diff files I have seen.
----------------------

more in next post

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Wed 30th January 2008, 7:55pm

[AB]

NYB - just remove the ban, delete the subpage, leave the user and talk pages in tact as there is nothing there against WP rules, and I'll place a Retired noticed at the top of both pages, scramble the account password, and begone from WP and WR. I want nothing to do with volunteering my efforts for the profit of the WMF or the sort of people representing it on WP at this time. Pretty clear i think.

This is a reasonable offer. If WP did not block sadistically,
but for the protection of their 'encyclopaedia', they would
take you up on it.

Blocking / banning someone who is willing to leave, or who
has already left, of his or her own free will is pure sadism.


This post has been edited by AB: Sat 26th January 2008, 6:47pm

[Piperdown]

from Piperdown
date Apr 30, 2007 6:40 PM
subject Copy of your message to Jpgordon: Wikipedia e-mail

I object to a vendetta smear by RFCU by Mongo to paint me as "wordbomb".

ever notice a pattern by certain editors, namely Mongo, Mantamoreland (also known as Tomstoner and LastExit before he was asked to stop but not banned), and SlimVirgin among others, to have editors banned from Wikipedia using the Wordbomb lie?

I'm not Judd Bagley and have no affiliation with him or Overstock.

I do expect further harassment from the above mentioned editors, though.

Can I expect more frivoulous checkuser requests from any editor that I make the mistake of opining on one of their RFC's, or just the bold ones who think they have a carte blanche to bully based on who their wikifriends are?
---------------------------------------
from Piperdown
date May 27, 2007 3:17 PM
subject Copy of your message to SlimVirgin: Wikipedia e-mail
mailed-by wikimedia.org

I don't have sock puppets. Unlike User:Mantanmoreland/Tomstoner.

I also don't have converstations with myself on wikipedia article talk pages as the above does.

So why the sockpuppet slander?

There is going to be some WP:COI action on that front whether you like it or not. You can either be on the right side of that when it happens, the wrong side, or stay out of it. I'd hope you'd choose to be on the right side of the topic of editors of using socks in conversations with themselves.

I do know how to use google on editors that try and railroad me while blatant WP:PA'ing me about how I'm having a "nervous breakdown". And I do know how to trace IP addresses on edits when they forget to log in.

Did you know that editor Mantanmoreland has posted from a DTCC computer according to his edit history on a church in NYC?

He also edits entries concerning topics and legal oppponents of the DTCC.

Don't you find that interesting? I'm sure a WP:COI review will too.

Cheers,
Piper
-------------------------
from Piperdown
to dgerard@gmail.com,
date Sep 8, 2007 11:46 AM
subject hello, found your email on the mailing list site

care to explain your lying about me on wikipedia that i am a puppet for overstock and/or anyone who works for it?

------
<crickets>

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Wed 30th January 2008, 7:59pm

[Piperdown]

By the way, folks, I now have proof positive that Samiharris = Gary Weiss. I'm open to suggestions on the best way to present the evidence.

A ha! This is perfect...Weiss apparently read my earlier post (noting that I had proof that he's Samiharris), likely retraced his steps and realized how I did it, quickly squatted out a blog post denying it, but is now back to using Mantanmoreland, anyway.

Sorry to go OT on y'all. I just love watching Weiss get all frantic and silly like this.

Out with it already, word! You're driving us all wacky in anticipation. Give me closure on the sockshow that ran me off WP, and closure for all WP'ians who have long wondered how some people are more equal than others when it comes to gross violations of everything WP is supposed to stand for.

Out with it! WR is apparently the best place for WP truth-telling, even WP agrees.

[Achromatic]

In that thread, SlimVirgin supports sock puppetry

I suppose Piperdown could follow her advice and start a new account, so later he could get checkusered and blocked by JayJG for being a banned editor evading his ban. Then the next time his unblock review came up, SlimVirgin could say things like, "He used sockpuppets to evade his ban! He clearly has no respect for our rules." Fairly typical tactics for her. Thankfully more and more people are seeing it for the B.S. that it is.

Soon she'll start being disappointed in everyone in the discussion. "It's disappointing that so many of our admins support harassment and banned users. I'm so disappointed." It's part of her manipulative tactics; after all, no one wants someone to be disappointed in them! Just like Mommy and Daddy used to say when you did something naughty. She's so disappointed.

She got called on that. Wizardman posts, says the same thing, within moments, FeloniousMonk is in, warning /him/, not SV (who has said that same thing at least half a dozen times), that he'd 'better not be encouraging a user to avoid a block with a sockpuppet'. I'm kinda curious what his answer will be (if any, of course), as to why Wizardman got that warning, not SV.

And for further fun, anyone care to comment on Crum375's "do you let a psychopath who has violated your mother and sister move into your house and wait for him to violate your wife too"?

[Piperdown]

crum's a bit sensitive on the matter of slimmy (assuming he/she is not slimmy herself, which is still in question - I'd have to hear what word has to say on that these days) because I caught Crum pulling a fast one on SV's talk pages.

When someone posts something really offensive on SV's page, which prolly happens once a day, Crum sweeps in and does an Oversight By A Non-Oversighter workaround.

While doing that, he/she seizes the opportunity to also remove any edits made by SV herself to her own page that aren't something she's proud of. Like callling me a sockpuppet, then blanking a query to ask for an explanation about why.

Convenient, that delete and restore tool is.

Like SV's regular deletion and restoring of subpages that collect "evidence" on people that she is working on banning. During all this, it's come to light that such subpages are verboten, but that doesn't stop her and Manny Moresocks from doing it anyway. And yes my subpage was a direct answer to MM, and that's what these sort of people count on - getting the camera to catch the reactions and not the provocations. Makes for great evidence in a kangaroo WP court.

[Achromatic]

Odd. I replied a few times to the thread this morning. And I could have sworn there was no purple archiving box around it, though now I look, I see it in the history.

Amusing, though not improper in itself, that who else should revert all post archive comments, but Mantanmoreland.

Nice to see he fails miserably at AGF, and instead goes with "When they say closed, they mean it."