Peter Karlsen Block, Some gits just won't go away Options

[RMHED]

Where I am any organisation that wants to store information on people has to register with a central data protection agency specifying what information they intend to store, how long for, what they intend to use it for and so on.

What a bizarre concept! How do you get anything done?

Easy, you just outsource to India.

[Malleus]

Where I am any organisation that wants to store information on people has to register with a central data protection agency specifying what information they intend to store, how long for, what they intend to use it for and so on.

What a bizarre concept! How do you get anything done?

Easy, you just outsource to India.

But you can't move the data outside the EU unless the subjects have agreed.

[RMHED]

Where I am any organisation that wants to store information on people has to register with a central data protection agency specifying what information they intend to store, how long for, what they intend to use it for and so on.

What a bizarre concept! How do you get anything done?

Easy, you just outsource to India.

But you can't move the data outside the EU unless the subjects have agreed.

Easy, you compile the data from India using a subsidiary. That way the data never enters the EU.

[Kelly Martin]

The bizarre concept is that you seem to believe that allowing Uncle Tom Cobbley and all to collect and keep whatever information they like on people and do with it as they will is perfectly acceptable. It's not, and hasn't been acceptable in Europe for many years.

Unless, of course, it's being done by the Home Office, or by any entity contracted to them, or by some other agency of Her Majesty's Government. If you think your precious data protection laws actually mean anything, you're a bigger fool than you appear. Those laws are panaceas that don't actually do anything except force businesses to fill out additional paperwork and pay off more bureaucrats, and in any case multinationals just get around them by storing the data outside of the EU.

[Malleus]

The bizarre concept is that you seem to believe that allowing Uncle Tom Cobbley and all to collect and keep whatever information they like on people and do with it as they will is perfectly acceptable. It's not, and hasn't been acceptable in Europe for many years.

Unless, of course, it's being done by the Home Office, or by any entity contracted to them, or by some other agency of Her Majesty's Government. If you think your precious data protection laws actually mean anything, you're a bigger fool than you appear. Those laws are panaceas that don't actually do anything except force businesses to fill out additional paperwork and pay off more bureaucrats, and in any case multinationals just get around them by storing the data outside of the EU.

I thank you for your uninformed opinion, which I have filed in the appropriate receptacle.

[EricBarbour]

The bizarre concept is that you seem to believe that allowing Uncle Tom Cobbley and all to collect and keep whatever information they like on people and do with it as they will is perfectly acceptable. It's not, and hasn't been acceptable in Europe for many years.

Unless, of course, it's being done by the Home Office, or by any entity contracted to them, or by some other agency of Her Majesty's Government. If you think your precious data protection laws actually mean anything, you're a bigger fool than you appear. Those laws are panaceas that don't actually do anything except force businesses to fill out additional paperwork and pay off more bureaucrats, and in any case multinationals just get around them by storing the data outside of the EU.

I thank you for your uninformed opinion, which I have filed in the appropriate receptacle.

EU outlines shortcomings in UK data law

'One size fits all' EU data law would undermine rights, says Clarke

New EU data protection laws still years away

And from your own "pedia":

The directive was written before the breakthrough of the Internet, and to date there is little jurisprudence on this subject.

Plus, this report from US Homeland Security, which comes right out and states something that I rarely see mentioned elsewhere:

In Europe, the tradition has been for hotel guests, upon registration, to fill out a card or form providing personal data including surname, nationality, sex, and identity card number. The hotel retains these cards for a set period of time, making them available to the authorities whenever asked. In some locales, the law enforcement authorities visit the hotel and collect the cards on a regular schedule (e.g., daily, weekly, monthly, semi-annually). The local authorities review the cards to find wanted individuals or suspected criminals.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour: Tue 28th June 2011, 11:49pm

[Milton Roe]

Of course they'll have to give up a main "argument" why people want to be supersecret "nameusers" on WP: "WARNING UNLOGGED-IN IP WEENIE: IF YOU MAKE THIS EDIT, THE WHOLE WORLD WILL KNOW YOUR NAKED IP ADDRESS!!!"

Indeed. Although the "experiment" of blocking nonidentified editors from creating new articles was a whole lot more effective at increasing registration rates, now, wasn't it?

Doesn't look like it. Although to be fair, they are still arguing over what constitutes an "editor" so that they can figure out whether the number of "editors" is increasing or increasing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8382477.stm

Once again we have the problem that WP, much like goverments, refuses to ever run any prospective randomized controlled trials. They could actually apply one set of editing rules to all the articles that start with "A" and another set to all those that start with "B" and compare the two across the same time span. Then reverse then and compare again. But they've never done anything like that, so all we have from them is (very bad) retrospective epidemology about policy. Which, even with historical-case-controls (like we're talking about here), proves very little.

Except, of course, in a negative way (since we can say that no, whatever they did, the effect wasn't so large that it was very obvious to everybody that something HUUUUUGE was happening). Big deal.

[SB_Johnny]

Of course they'll have to give up a main "argument" why people want to be supersecret "nameusers" on WP: "WARNING UNLOGGED-IN IP WEENIE: IF YOU MAKE THIS EDIT, THE WHOLE WORLD WILL KNOW YOUR NAKED IP ADDRESS!!!"

Indeed. Although the "experiment" of blocking nonidentified editors from creating new articles was a whole lot more effective at increasing registration rates, now, wasn't it?

Doesn't look like it. Although to be fair, they are still arguing over what constitutes an "editor" so that they can figure out whether the number of "editors" is increasing or increasing.

Walesian slip?

[Malleus]

The bizarre concept is that you seem to believe that allowing Uncle Tom Cobbley and all to collect and keep whatever information they like on people and do with it as they will is perfectly acceptable. It's not, and hasn't been acceptable in Europe for many years.

Unless, of course, it's being done by the Home Office, or by any entity contracted to them, or by some other agency of Her Majesty's Government. If you think your precious data protection laws actually mean anything, you're a bigger fool than you appear. Those laws are panaceas that don't actually do anything except force businesses to fill out additional paperwork and pay off more bureaucrats, and in any case multinationals just get around them by storing the data outside of the EU.

I thank you for your uninformed opinion, which I have filed in the appropriate receptacle.

EU outlines shortcomings in UK data law

'One size fits all' EU data law would undermine rights, says Clarke

New EU data protection laws still years away

And from your own "pedia":

The directive was written before the breakthrough of the Internet, and to date there is little jurisprudence on this subject.

Plus, this report from US Homeland Security, which comes right out and states something that I rarely see mentioned elsewhere:

In Europe, the tradition has been for hotel guests, upon registration, to fill out a card or form providing personal data including surname, nationality, sex, and identity card number. The hotel retains these cards for a set period of time, making them available to the authorities whenever asked. In some locales, the law enforcement authorities visit the hotel and collect the cards on a regular schedule (e.g., daily, weekly, monthly, semi-annually). The local authorities review the cards to find wanted individuals or suspected criminals.

The EU's data protection directives may not be perfect, but we have no "identity card numbers" in the UK, so you can write whatever pleases you on a hotel registration card, which the police have no interest in anyway and certainly don't bother to collect. Why would they turn up to collect bits of paper when the exact same information is held in a computer system? The US may still be living in the dark ages, but the rest of the world has moved on. What's clear from Kelly's misunderstanding of data protection is that the US is yet to even reach first base.

This post has been edited by Malleus: Wed 29th June 2011, 12:32am

[Kelly Martin]

Malleus: I think the batteries in your irony detector are low again.

[Milton Roe]

Of course they'll have to give up a main "argument" why people want to be supersecret "nameusers" on WP: "WARNING UNLOGGED-IN IP WEENIE: IF YOU MAKE THIS EDIT, THE WHOLE WORLD WILL KNOW YOUR NAKED IP ADDRESS!!!"

Indeed. Although the "experiment" of blocking nonidentified editors from creating new articles was a whole lot more effective at increasing registration rates, now, wasn't it?

Doesn't look like it. Although to be fair, they are still arguing over what constitutes an "editor" so that they can figure out whether the number of "editors" is increasing or increasing.

Walesian slip?

Yeah. I think I'll just leave it.

[Malleus]

Malleus: I think the batteries in your irony detector are low again.

I don't have an irony detector. Does WalMart sell them?

[Kelly Martin]

I don't have an irony detector. Does WalMart sell them?

Wouldn't know, I don't shop at Wal-mart. But I imagine you have to give them all your personal information before they'll sell you the batteries.

[Malleus]

I don't have an irony detector. Does WalMart sell them?

Wouldn't know, I don't shop at Wal-mart. But I imagine you have to give them all your personal information before they'll sell you the batteries.

Wal-mart is called Asda where I live, and I Iove shopping there because it's open 24-hours and has self-service checkouts, so I can be in and out like a Will-o'-the-wisp. It's a big store, but I give myself a maximum time of five minutes from door to car.

This post has been edited by Malleus: Wed 29th June 2011, 2:07am

[EricBarbour]

Wal-mart is called Asda where I live, and I Iove shopping there because it's open 24-hours and has self-service checkouts, so I can be in and out like a Will-o'-the-wisp.

So, Mr. Wisp, are you invisible to the hundreds of thousands of surveillance cameras being run by UK local police and corporations?

[Malleus]

Wal-mart is called Asda where I live, and I Iove shopping there because it's open 24-hours and has self-service checkouts, so I can be in and out like a Will-o'-the-wisp.

So, Mr. Wisp, are you invisible to the hundreds of thousands of surveillance cameras being run by UK local police and corporations?

In what way is a surveillance camera capturing data about me? It could be anybody on their grainy recordings. Admittedly my local Asda does operate an ANPR system though, just the way of the world now I guess. Maybe we should all move to the wild mountains of Montana and declare a free state.

This post has been edited by Malleus: Wed 29th June 2011, 3:37am

[melloden]

I don't have an irony detector. Does WalMart sell them?

Wouldn't know, I don't shop at Wal-mart. But I imagine you have to give them all your personal information before they'll sell you the batteries.

Wal-mart is called Asda where I live, and I Iove shopping there because it's open 24-hours and has self-service checkouts, so I can be in and out like a Will-o'-the-wisp. It's a big store, but I give myself a maximum time of five minutes from door to car.

Stupid Brits have everything nice.