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Searching for LaRouche under the bed |
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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The "LaRouche 1" ArbCom case established that "Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement may be removed from any Wikipedia article in which it appears other than the article Lyndon LaRouche and other closely related articles," and that "Wikipedia users who engage in re-insertion of original research which originated with Lyndon LaRouche and his movement or engage in edit wars regarding insertion of such material shall be subject to ban upon demonstration to the Arbitration Committee of the offense." Ah, but what constitutes "Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement"? This phrase has acquired a remarkably elastic definition. Consider this quote from Pope John Paul II, removed by Will Beback as "LaRouche-sourced material," although there is no source cited. Presumably most pronouncements by the Pope get published by the Vatican, although we don't know in this case. Increasingly, "Original work which originates from Lyndon LaRouche and his movement" has been taken to mean "opinions with which LaRouche might conceivably agree." Aside from Will Beback/Willmcw/User2004, the other hyper-vigilant defender against creeping LaRouchism is User:172, who waged a mammoth battle at the article "Privatization" to prevent inclusion of material on a conference on the privatization of national security functions ( see the lengthy debate on the talk page.) !72 argued that the material ought to be deleted because it sounded like something LaRouche might consider to be important. My edit, which triggered a revert war by 172, was sourced to the Princeton University transcript of the conference proceedings. Recently, User:Tsunami Butler made a fruitless appeal to the ArbCom, which included an entertaining sampler of recent complaints on Will Beback's talk page. Predictably, this was ignored by the ArbCom. In the course of the discussion, however, Will Beback announces his latest exploit, which I tracked down to the ANI archive. Will reverts two edits: one edit, in article "Laissez-faire," mentions George Schultz and Milton Friedman as laissez-fair advocates that went so far as to call for drug legalization. This edit was sourced to the Wikipedia articles on George Schultz and Milton Friedman, and sure enough, they did that. However, Will Beback pounces, calling it a "LaRouchism." Similarly, in the article "Free Trade," Will Beback comes to the rescue against an edit which references Henry Carey and Friedrich List, and includes a quote from William McKinley -- "remove LaRouche concepts," he writes. He also threatened to ban HonourableSchoolboy for that one. So now, if you are an admin and you want to ban someone, you can accuse them of holding an opinion similar to one of LaRouche.
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nobs |
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#2242 most prolific contributor of out of 1 million+ WP users
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QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Wed 14th February 2007, 12:15am) Nobs, whenever the issue of off-topic posting is raised, you should probably assume that you are a prime suspect.
Alright, back to the subject. Thus far we have identified four invidious pejoratives used in Wikipedia's internal program of ideological profiling, a program similiar to the concept to racial profiling, in theory "keeping an eye" on all editors with potentially dangerous or incorrect ideological views which may infect the planet via electronic transmission. They are: neo-confederate anti-communist LaRouchie Holocaust denier Herschelkrustofsky presented evidence of ideological profiling which he mislabelled as " wikistalking" in the case accepted by ArbCom against SlimVirgin and Will Beback. HK details his complaint of profiling and harassment but nevertheless can't change his skin color.... QUOTE Willmcw prepared a list of every article ever edited by myself and two other editors, all of whom were accused of being "LaRouche editors." ...In the vast majority of cases, any connection between my edits and LaRouche would be purely imaginary. RD added a comment, QUOTE evidently willing to put dozens of hours into scouring the entire editing history of his subjects and assembling lists of everything they've ever done going back for months upon months. This post has been edited by nobs:
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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QUOTE(nobs @ Sun 18th February 2007, 11:09am) Alright, back to the subject.
I'd say that you made a momentary feint toward the subject, and then veered back again toward your epic struggle slash landmark legal case with the Chipster. The reason that I originally thought that this topic might be of some interest (it has probably outlived its usefulness by now) is that one particular admin, Will Beback, is now pushing the envelope, arrogating to himself the authority to declare certain classes of ideas to be taboo, irrespective of whether they orginated with LaRouche. He is using the LaRouche I ArbCom case as a jumping off point, but he has jumped sufficiently far with it that it no longer has any connection to the case. The ArbCom seems to be telling him, in effect, Run With It! This is sure to set a precedent which others will eagerly follow.
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nobs |
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#2242 most prolific contributor of out of 1 million+ WP users
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Well, HK, you & I have never had this discussion. Willmcw/sandbox[1] was RD, and Willmcw/sandbox2 was yourself; both were profiled, stalked, harassed, and eventually gangbanged out of the project. Both your "profiles" fit all the pejoritives in the PRA, SPLC etc. literature. You said, QUOTE ...In the vast majority of cases, any connection between my edits and LaRouche would be purely imaginary. Can you clarify what you mean buy this. I'm not asking to expound on your understanding of LaRouche's ideas. My impression is, you have read some of his "dangerous" writings, and probabaly used some in citations. But as I understand it, you deny any affilliation with the "cultic mentality" of "LaRouchism" that Berlet and others have written extensively on. Nonetheless, it appears even until now, you can't shake the branding of a "LaRouche editor". QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Sun 18th February 2007, 9:13pm) Will Beback, is now pushing the envelope, arrogating to himself the authority to declare certain classes of ideas to be taboo, irrespective of whether they orginated with LaRouche. He is using the LaRouche I ArbCom case as a jumping off point, but he has jumped sufficiently far with it that it no longer has any connection to the case. The ArbCom seems to be telling him, in effect, Run With It! This is sure to set a precedent which others will eagerly follow.
QUOTE "arrogating to himself" this is an assumption. You know yourself Will Beback & SV and all of them do not act willy nilly on their own. My God, Electric Ray was just here asking why we don't organize to work together, like they do over there, etc. QUOTE classes of ideas not surprising, and really not new. I could guess what most are (all available at PRA & other websites). I'm not familiar with the LaRouche1 case, and I really have no reason to examine it. My advice would be to abandon this fruitless effort. Read Hume, QUOTE The human mind is of a very imitative nature; nor is it possible for any set of men to converse often together without acquiring a similitude of manners and communication to each other their vices as well as their virtues. The propensity to company and society is strong in all rational creatures; and the same disposition which gives us this propensity makes us enter deeply into each other's sentiments and causes like passions and inclinations to run, as it were, by contagion through the whole club or knot of companions.' Ask yourself this question, if LaRouche is so intelligent (which he is) why doesn't he tell his "followers" that all his problems come from the ADL? This post has been edited by nobs:
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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QUOTE(nobs @ Sun 18th February 2007, 8:47pm) QUOTE ...In the vast majority of cases, any connection between my edits and LaRouche would be purely imaginary. Can you clarify what you mean buy this. I'm not asking to expound on your understanding of LaRouche's ideas. My impression is, you have read some of his "dangerous" writings, and probabaly used some in citations. But as I understand it, you deny any affilliation with the "cultic mentality" of "LaRouchism" that Berlet and others have written extensively on. Nonetheless, it appears even until now, you can't shake the branding of a "LaRouche editor". What I meant by that was straightforward. Will Beback was claiming that my edits to articles such as "European Classical Music," "Hall Johnson," or "Isoperimetry" were loaded with insidious LaRouchist ideas. That is baloney. But as far is "LaRouchism" is concerned, I am "pro-LaRouche." QUOTE(nobs @ Sun 18th February 2007, 8:47pm) Ask yourself this question, if LaRouche is so intelligent (which he is) why doesn't he tell his "followers" that all his problems come from the ADL?
Because they don't. The ADL, like Berlet or Dennis King, is not the source of the attacks on LaRouche. They are just a bunch of goons on the payroll. See John Train Salon.
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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Member
Group: Members
Posts: 5,199
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QUOTE(guy @ Mon 19th February 2007, 8:20am) Careful, HK - given that the ADL is a Jewish organisation, you're bordering on anti-Semitism here. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wacko.gif) The ADL is a very complicated organization that engages in all sorts of activity, much of it covert. The "Jewish charity" side of it is strictly a cover story, and an appallingly cynical one at that, because by claiming to fight anti-Semitism, and thereby branding its critics, by implication, as anti-Semites, they trivialize real anti-Semitism (see this section of the Wikipedia article on ADL critic Norman Finkelstein.) Even the Wikipedia article on the ADL, which has been sanitized and then sanitized again by Jayjg and co., contains this section, which Daniel alluded to earlier. This particular controversy should help indicate that the ADL is involved in a whole lot of stuff that has nothing to do with Jews or Judaism. To put the matter in a nutshell, when the US Congress put an end to COINTELPRO, the policy of harassment of political organizations by the FBI and CIA, those latter organizations simply privatized it, farming it out to the ADL in particular. There is more that could be said about this matter, but I think that this is sufficient. I'd like to keep this thread from going too far off topic.
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Posts in this topic
Herschelkrustofsky Searching for LaRouche under the bed nobs Personally, I know little of LaRouche and have nev... JohnA Incredibly there are people who are still convince... Jonathan HK, could you give me some background as to who th... taiwopanfob
HK, could you give me some background as to who t... Herschelkrustofsky
HK, could you give me some background as to who t... nobs [quote name='Jonathan' post='22618' date='Mon 12th... Herschelkrustofsky
On [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Cb... nobs Reagan adopted LaRouche's recommended verson o... Herschelkrustofsky
Reagan adopted LaRouche's recommended verson ... nobs [quote name='Poetlister' post='22669' date='Mon 12... guy
The Duggan story, as it appeared in the British p... Herschelkrustofsky
The Duggan story, as it appeared in the British ... Herschelkrustofsky
Are we on the same planet? I know Elizabeth Sym... nobs She's linked to the CheneysBeware of employing... guy
She's linked to the Cheneys, procurred a big ... Herschelkrustofsky
HK, could you give me some background as to who t... Poetlister Apart from this forum, I have only come across LaR... Herschelkrustofsky :blink: nobs :blink:
HK, let's get Dan Brandt involved in t... Somey I remember back in 1988, during one of his Preside... nobs She was Minister for Defence Procurement so it was... Somey They are:neo-confederate
anti-communist
LaRouchie
... nobs [quote name='nobs' post='23009' date='Sun 18th Feb... Somey [/quote]
Without specifically accusing you of quot... nobs
[quote name='nobs' post='23018' date='Sun 18th Fe... nobs Can you clarify what you mean buy this. I'm n... Poetlister
The ADL, like Berlet or Dennis King, is not the s... Daniel Brandt John Train, according to his Who's Who in Amer... anon1234
Yet good ol' SlimVirgin wrote on January 6, 2... nobs
[i]Paris Review, according to The New York Times,... Herschelkrustofsky
John Train, according to his [i]Who's Who in ... Daniel Brandt
I think Ace Hayes probably used the term "Im... nobs
I think Ace Hayes probably used the term "I... Daniel Brandt ADL had goons on its payroll when Irwin Suall ran ... nobs
ADL had goons on its payroll when Irwin Suall ran... nobs
There was a criminal case in California in 1993-9... Yehudi All sorts of people collaborated with South Africa... nobs
If it weren't for the ADL, America would be a... Herschelkrustofsky
I'm no friend of Lady Symons, but she can... nobs
I am hard pressed to think of contemporary politi... guy
Suppose we just settle on "spooky," the... Herschelkrustofsky this disambig page.
[quote name='Herschelkrustofsk... nobs I think that it is significant that this is the ar... Herschelkrustofsky
HK: I posted an account of the LaRouche/John Trai... omobomo
I am hard pressed to think of contemporary poli... Somey Only if one is a knee-jerk supporter of the state ... guy
Of course, there's always George Galloway, t... Herschelkrustofsky
[quote name='omobomo' post='23186' date='Wed 21st... nobs ...when the US Congress put an end to [url=http://... guy
I ask this hesitantly, out of curiosity, but keep... nobs
I ask this hesitantly, out of curiosity, but kee... anon1234 Doesn't that depend on where you're standi... Somey "Masticates"? :huh: nobs
"Masticates"? :huh:
Yah, chews up, de... Herschelkrustofsky :blink: Daniel Brandt I like George Galloway. Herschelkrustofsky
I like [url=http://www.namebase.org/galloway.html... nobs
[quote name='Daniel Brandt' post='23226' date='We... Poetlister
Guy, for instances, didn't disclose [i]why Ga... nobs
Galloway ...won his parliamentary seat ...in a vi... guy
That depends, if you consider deleting certain fa... nobs [quote name='nobs' post='23240' date='Wed 21st Feb... Daniel Brandt As usual, Nobs, you get everything half right, and... nobs Spartacus has good information. They read books. T... guy I've just discovered that no less a person tha... gomi
... Lord Rees-Mogg is not someone whom I personal... Herschelkrustofsky Well, there's a broad array of accusations her... guy HK, you should know better than that. EIR is not ... Herschelkrustofsky
HK, you should know better than that. EIR is not... Herschelkrustofsky I'm beginning to wonder whether there isn... Somey I'm beginning to wonder whether there isn... It's the blimp, Frank It looks like for the first time, a move by SlimVi... Herschelkrustofsky
It looks like for the first time, a move by SlimV... Somey [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVirgin/... Jonny Cache
[b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVir... Herschelkrustofsky
[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVirgin... Uly
I am thinking of some way to protest this, not th... anon1234
I am thinking of some way to protest this, not t... Castle Rock
[b][url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:SlimVir... Derktar Interesting that the page was deleted in June, had... gomi Don't forget about http://en.wikipedia.org/wik... Somey Blame Turkey?
Anyway, that's probably my faul... Kato 172 is fingering what seems to be another innocent... nobs
172 is fingering what seems to be another innocen... Herschelkrustofsky
172 is fingering what seems to be another innocen... It's the blimp, Frank
I've taken a look at Mbhiii's contributi... Somey As I indicated way, way back at the beginning of t... Herschelkrustofsky
The edit that 172 singles out is interesting, how... gomi As if further evidence was needed, here is SlimeVi... papaya Nah, there's no need for a conspiracy to expla... Cedric
Objectivism and libertarianism are the perfect po... papaya There's no real social structure within the ad...
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