Wog, WTF sort of an article is this? Options

[Milton Roe]

"Wog" is one of those incredibly English words. You never, ever hear it in the US--unless it's a Brit or an Aussie using it. And it's used for everyone that's not English, not necessarily people with dark skin. Even saw it used to describe Polish and Russian people once.

And that is the sense it's used in "The Wogs begin at Calais." Note that's what happens when going East from the sacred white cliffs of Dover. Brits don't consider Americans Wogs, and that is the sense of Churchill's "History of the English Speaking Peoples". Churchill, the Last Victorian, actually means something like "History of the non-Wogs." It is (was) more of a cultural-exasperation thing, than a racial superiority thing (there actually is a difference; just about every culture has some moments about stuff people in other cultures do).

[Peter Damian]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

[Milton Roe]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

We're doing it only to annoy you, Peter.

Did you know that in the Dark Ages, everybody thought the world was flat?

[Kato]

In living speech, I've only ever heard the term used by a British people to describe people of African descent. It is an English equivalent of "nigger" and now taboo.

That "The Wogs begin at Calais" thing is rare old Victorian, colonial stuff only to be found in books. In the early part of the last century "Wog" would have occasionally been used to refer to Indians.

Judging from some of the comments here, this usage sounds like more of an American idea of anachronistic British speech. The reality is the term "Wog" in the UK has long had exactly the same power and meaning as the term "nigger" in the US, and has a lot of really bad connotations for people in Britain who remember it being used daily to demean black Britons.

I can vouch for the accuracy of the Australian section of the article. Wog is certainly used both in a friendly and derogatory manner (more to describe southern europeans than eastern) - I have an italian friend that uses it all the time to describe aspects of her life/friends/family.

I gather in Sydney and Melbourne,WOG is a mild derogatory term for a Greek-Australian.

I have been to Melbourne, and I can assure you that the term is not primarily aimed at Greeks or other East Europeans, of which there are plenty there.

I'm pretty certain it is. See:

The TV show, "Acropolis Now", has opened the door to the lives of a WOG family. Thus as a result we are seeing numerous shows and theatre plays depicting a "Wog" in one way or another.

and there is even an Australian film called The Wog Boy (T-H-L-K-D) about Greek-Australians. Which would be banned on the spot in the UK for using an inflammatory racist word in the title.

[The Wales Hunter]

I'd agree with Kato regarding the usage towards people of African descent.

As for the "wogs begin at Calais" - the Wikipedia article is right about this. It was used in 1949 to attack Winston Churchill. There was a sense, back then, that there was a sliding scale among the human race, from the white Anglo-Saxons at the top, to black Africans at the bottom.

Therefore, using the phrase was basically accusing Churchill of believing "if you're from outside the UK, you are the lowest of the low".

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

The word is virtually unused in the US, other than by Scientologists.

Current US use ... a quote from Rlevse's old squadron's homepage, the VAW-124 "Bear Aces " ...

OUR MISSION

“To execute commander’s intent through dominant command and control by leveraging the speed, agility and lethality of joint and combined forces to shape the battlespace to our advantage and swiftly defeat any foe."

UPDATE - Greetings from the USS Theodore Roosevelt.

After a long and eventful trip across the Ocean, we are now on station, representing the United States in the Global War on Terror flying missions in support of Operation ENDURING FREEDOM.

On our way here, we crossed the equator and our “trusty shellbacks” indoctrinated our “slimy wogs” in a long standing tradition at where we pay homage to King Neptune and his Royal Court. In keeping with tradition, King Neptune and Davey Jones joined us for our ceremony and inspected each of the sailors who crossed the equator for the first time (always a good excuse for sailor to dress up in drag as mermaids and hula hula dancers.)

Unlike the Wikipedia, the Bear Aces actually have a reliable Ombudsman to hear out complaints, so there is much to learn from them ... slimy wogs aside.

"THE ENEMY CAN'T REST WITH A BEAR ACE ON ITS CHEST" ... my goodness, I am breathless at the thought. I am just glad they did not say "back".

This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy: Sun 7th December 2008, 7:54pm

[Milton Roe]

I'd agree with Kato regarding the usage towards people of African descent.

As for the "wogs begin at Calais" - the Wikipedia article is right about this. It was used in 1949 to attack Winston Churchill. There was a sense, back then, that there was a sliding scale among the human race, from the white Anglo-Saxons at the top, to black Africans at the bottom.

Therefore, using the phrase was basically accusing Churchill of believing "if you're from outside the UK, you are the lowest of the low".

But that wasn't quite right, as Churchill, if anything, would have meant "outside of the UK and North America". His mother was American. For him, I think the intransigent Wogs (think of the infuriating de Gaulle!) began at Calais in one direction (or, failing that, at least at Churchill's newly-invented Iron Curtain), and about Hawaii in the other direction. And having just been through WW II, in which the world (and the post-war world) in general behaved very badly, I think some of this kind of thinking in 1949 can be forgiven.

[The Wales Hunter]

Agreed, the attack on Churchill wasn't accurate. He would have probably gone along with Cecil Rhodes grand vision of an Imperial Parliament of the white dominions if he had the chance, with some sort of union with the United States involved for good measure.

[Viridae]

I can vouch for the accuracy of the Australian section of the article. Wog is certainly used both in a friendly and derogatory manner (more to describe southern europeans than eastern) - I have an italian friend that uses it all the time to describe aspects of her life/friends/family.

I gather in Sydney and Melbourne,WOG is a mild derogatory term for a Greek-Australian.

But in the UK, WOG has long been used as a derogatory term for a person of African descent, and now its usage is completely out of bounds, being associated with racist values.

I had an internet exchange recently with someone from the US, who used the term "Paki" to describe someone from Pakistan. That term is also an extremely loaded word, and completely out of bounds in public discourse in the UK. Certainly a sackable offense in a public arena. This discrepancy - the idea that normal people from different cultures would throw around terms like "Paki", interested me.

I have been to Melbourne, and I can assure you that the term is not primarily aimed at Greeks or other East Europeans, of which there are plenty there.

I live in melbourne and can vouch tell you it is.

[Cedric]

I have been to Melbourne, and I can assure you that the term is not primarily aimed at Greeks or other East Europeans, of which there are plenty there.

I live in melbourne and can vouch tell you it is.

Strange, then, that when I was there in the 1980s, I only heard that word applied to South Asians. Maybe it was thought I was a Greek! I did have dark hair back then, but I didn't really have a "Mediterranean appearance".

[EricBarbour]

On our way here, we crossed the equator and our “trusty shellbacks” indoctrinated our “slimy wogs” in a long standing tradition at where we pay homage to King Neptune and his Royal Court. In keeping with tradition, King Neptune and Davey Jones joined us for our ceremony and inspected each of the sailors who crossed the equator for the first time (always a good excuse for sailor to dress up in drag as mermaids and hula hula dancers.)

The word doesn't have the same meaning here. We're talking about American sailors being subjected to abuse when they cross the equator---a fine old US Navy tradition.
This usage of "wog" is almost archaic. Perhaps they secretly want to be British Navy lads, complete with the rum and the sodomy.

[Sylar]

The Brits called the Arabs wogs in the movie Lawrence of Arabia.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Moderator's note: the debate about Eugenics has been split off to its own thread in the off-topic politics forum.