This forum is for discussing specific Wikipedia editors, editing patterns, and general efforts by those editors to influence or direct content in ways that might not be in keeping with Wikipedia policy. Please source your claims and provide links where appropriate. For a glossary of terms frequently used when discussing Wikipedia and related projects, please refer to Wikipedia:Glossary.
| Selina joins forces with SlimVirgin?
, split from "Will Beback RFC"
Fri 2nd March 2012, 11:26pm
Joined: Sun 19th Feb 2006, 10:28pm
Member No.: 1
WP user page -
Dog, go back to kennel and stop behaving like such a dog person, e.g. just follows what other people do all the damn time. You're a born cabalist.
Joy: Not quite, did think she should know though: wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk%3ASlimVirgin?diff=479650409&oldid=479549517
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Fri 2nd March 2012, 9:34pm)
QUOTE(lilburne @ Fri 2nd March 2012, 11:47am)
What I find perverted is this usage of 'user' when they apply to themselves. The users are those using the site to gain information, not the bozos that are on ANI and the other drama boards.
For the insiders, the term "users" refers to fellow MMORPG players. It is similar to the way that drug addicts are called "users."
QUOTE(Selina @ Fri 2nd March 2012, 10:23pm)
Classic Denial (psychology) (T-H-L-K-D)This post has been edited by Somey: Sat 3rd March 2012, 10:43pm
... When you run a sockpuppet army Herschelkrustofsky
/ Unnamed Larouche Party Employee using a made up name from the Simpsons
, you're just as bad as any of those admins that abuse authority to POV push, you're just the flip side of the coin, using force in the same way to try get what you want...
One and the same... YOU are a "Wikipedian" that you claim to despise.
Abyss, look into the kettle.
It's the blimp, Frank
Even more impressive is that "Will Beback: banned" is now at 7 votes, one vote away from passing.
I bet you're going to have a little party Herschelkrustofsky
The Larouche cult
) seems no better than Scientology in how they attempt
to destroy their enemies
in any way possible, I hope someone else picks up after him on that at least even if he's a dick in other ways. I didn't realise just how creepy an organisation it is and wish I had looked into it before
Funny thing is that sockpuppetry really does destroy forums, as in nobody wants to have a conversation with two accounts/one guy.
A lot of times around here I get the impression just like on Wikipedia I'll start a good conversation, then some dimwit charges in with a cavalcade of socks and makes it all about their pet issue.
Other examples around here include HK with his LaRouche stuff and the Overstock.com crew.
Moderators don't think it's a big deal if it's someone they like. Basically no integrity whatsoever. It's all just a power struggle, now Selina tipped the balance a little bit and they're screaming bloody murder.
I thought I should come out and say this again, as I previously said to Hersch in private, and earlier in this thread, one of the things really bothered me for the integrity of WR was finding out that Hersch posted from the Party office
of the larouche organisation, Hersch has not denied this and we've always ignored his POV on that because the amount of time he is able to spend on moderation outweighed the negatives — But then I thought, well, if he's being paid for actually helping use WR as a propaganda tool.... that makes me feel a bit sick, as if any political organisation had a semi-official foothold in WR when its meant to be a neutral watchdog really
I think bringing the issue of his mass-sockpuppeting on Wikipedia is what really turned him against me, but I felt I had to ask if he was sockpuppeting here, he has vehemently denied it, but of course we have no way to know when its someone who's demonstrated expertise in it.
It just made me feel like WR had been "invaded" really. I never really looked into Larouche much before, but I have been reading up since finding out that Hersch was a heavy sockpuppeteer and the things I read troubled me a lot, it seems rather cultish
in a way that reminds me of Scientology It just made me feel dirty that we are basically hosting subsections dedicated to "fair gaming
" of "Suppressive Persons
" who stand up against exactly the same attempts at whitewashing campaigns that Scientology has attempted on Wikipedia.
this is coming a few days after mentioning his "Grand Theft Socking" on Wikipedia
and asking if he had any here too, and whom I commented, to just a couple of hours earlier, that he has occasionally posted from the offices of the Larouche Party, which he didn't comment on but seems like it really annoyed him being found out.
Needed to be said in public so people know what they are dealing with... I never really looked hard into who they were really before either, I thought just another crazy american political group, and that if people like Will Beback who went around bullying everyone hated them they can't be all that bad but they are pretty damn creepy.I didn't know for 6 years that Hersch actually worked for the larouche Party and had never told us til I did some digging. He didn't deny it, but it's the fact that he never told any of us, and worked himself into a position of trust here to further his agenda in the same way he manipulates people on Wikipedia - that is what sickens me.
This: It's kind of a shame, because in the light of reading more about the Larouche party's neo-nazi version of scientiology-like loveliness, it seems like it was all just another case of the occasional bad people fighting other bad people and evening things out, and now I am figuring this is going to be like open season for the Party's sockpuppets
now who have also apparently been using WR as a platform for years without telling us.
I hope they let other rabid admins loose on organisations that employ POV-pushers armed with the P words really, because that's about all that works against those kind of people - and at least puts the crazies and manipulators somewhere useful, fighting each other instead of hurting everyone else.
I just feel like it hurts others' rights too when hydras
are used to drown out free speech - I accept it, and I'm not going on any kind of war, this is the end of it - as I said, the nature of the internet is vulnerable in a way that trying to fight it is literally pointless - corporations and PR companies know this
, and we are going to see more and more taking advantage
of this, as well as governments
, in the future, but that is my prediction — and I'm not happy about making it, that is the way things are going, and will go unless some organisation like the EFF or something comes up with a bright idea on how to stop that "industry" growing and growing ... But I am not sure if there is
anything that can be done to stop it. Sites like Wikipedia Review, Anonymous, Wikileaks, any watchdog will not be able to fight the highest bidder in a few years as the technology improves, I am sure of it
It may not be too bad now as it is mostly amateurs and "enthusiasts" (and illegal if caught in both the US and UK
) for now though, and you're right that as long as there is enough scrutiny on what all of us say, and we keep a grain of salt rather than "good faith", we're probably ok, but yeah, it's for that same reason I was pretty uncomfortable with keeping it to myself too, I really had to get my concerns off my chest there.
I know who you are getting at there, and my point it is relevant, and it did needed to be said in this conversation, as Will Beback was the main one tracking Herschelkrustofsky
/the Party's scientology-like efforts on Wikipedia, it's very much on topic.
Even when I first brought it up with the other mods a couple of weeks ago, before I even started checking for sockpuppets, Herschelkrustofsky
/the Party blamed the tracking of his sockpuppets all on Will Beback personally as if he was some kind of victim whilst openly engaging in attempted manipulation - they seem both obsessed with watching each other as much equally. Hersch/the Party's main tactic seems very similar to Scientology in that they attempt to defame
anyone criticising or attacking
them, in the public eye in whatever way possible.
For years I was tricked us into thinking the larouche party was some kind of repressed underdog because known otherwise-corrupt admins like Will Beback in other ways fought them amongst their other POV battles - and I hope that serves as a lesson really to other administrators on Wikipedia that when you act in scummy ways to other people like Will Beback, and that nearly all that people hear about you is bad, then everyone is less inclined to believe anything you say even on the few occasions when you're actually doing something right. I feel like an idiot for not reading up more on the Party at the time now...
I am sickened that I actually defended the Party's representative on this stuff after having read the links I gave above, and I deliberately didn't do my research from Wikipedia - the only link there other than WP that is actually on WP also is the lyndonlarouchewatch.org one - those sites seem pretty reliable with 2 of those sites are actually jew sites themselves the ADL I've even heard of in the UK so yeah — but of course I know they are all part of the "British Jew Empire World War 3 conspiracy" against the Party, of course.
He may have not openly used staff powers corruptly on that account, but certainly steered the forum the way he wanted it to be - I doubt we'd have a forum for someone like Chip Berlet if he wasn't an enemy of the Party because most people either don't care about larouche or when reading it, like every mainstream source that writes about it, finds it a thoroughly unpleasant racist conspiracy theorist cult/Scientology-like organisation...
And yeah, that's enough, but I thought I should explain why I was posting it here in public as it needs to be a matter of historical record that I said this, and when someone operating this site is actively working
for a political party it should have been openly said years ago. I knew he was a POV pusher yeah, but that's very different because there's plenty of amateur POV pushers and they're relatively harmless, so like many people couldn't give a crap about larouche until I read more on it recently.
Way before I started looking for sockpuppets, finding out about their sockpuppet web is what caused this whole thing, the other mods know I posted after I found just how insanely manipulatively creepy Herschelkrustofsky/the Party's sockpuppet web on Wikipedia
was that I raised it with him in private as the other mods know — and seeing how large it was, and the ease he changes his IPs is what made me concerned that we might have similar problems here, since it seemed a bit like we put a Fox in charge of the chicken coop being allowed to approve new registrations like he did with "It's the blimp, Frank" — that's JUST like what happened with MB/Poetguy)
If you genuinely didn't know why I was posting that here, I hope that helps, it was very much on the topic. I'll try not to cause an argument for the the sake of Cedric and kitties, but it needed to be public as Wikipedia Review is supposed to be an independent site, and Herschelkrustofsky
knew that, and should have made it public instead of me having to find out 6 damn years later... If it hadn't been for the drama surrounding Will Beback I wouldn't have even known to look.
QUOTE(Selina @ Thu 1st March 2012, 2:32am)
. you utter sleazebag...
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 1st March 2012, 12:37am)
To the best of my recollection, ITBF has never expressed any pro-LaRouche sentimentsgoogle.com/search?q=site:wikipediareview.com "larouche" "it's the blimp, frank"
"About 7,090 results"google.com/search?q=site:wikipediareview.com "larouche" "it's the blimp, frank" "herschelkrustofsky"
"About 6,810 results"
Why is that EVERYONE on the internet who has a different opinion is always "conspiring
" against you, that any concerns are always invalid and part of some "conspiracy
", and you won't EVER admit you are the manipulative one?
Fact is no one knows who the hell he is other than being an employee of the Party, and he used the same proxy for a very long time
whilst "It's the Blimp, Frank"
appeared whilst habitually playing Poetguy like games on Wikipedia with characters like "Leatherstocking"
- and was also posting for a very long time with the same IP
- it seems like during his time as staff he later wised up
, probably after spotting that it had been tracked in the system and now is more careful like with his other fully proxy'd-up socks (remember, they get money for this), I am pretty certain that it is him, especially when you take into account that it's standard MO for him
He might have changed to respect WR in general a bit nowadays, I hope, but due to his feelings on Larouche it seems like he STILL just can't help himself to sockpuppet to stir up hate against their enemies here too. "It's the blimp, Frank" is his puppet for saying the nasty things his "Good cop" Hersch persona can't say.
Though yeah, this stuff should really be in the other thread
on that stuff, but yeah. [e.g. not modding stuff I'm involved in but just replying instead]
- "oh look at poor Leatherstocking everyone" (CTRL+F leatherstocking, tap F3 a few times)
- "oh look at poor Leatherstocking everyone" (CTRL+F leatherstocking, tap F3 a few times)
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Fri 13th March 2009, 6:39am)
Now he's engaged in an interesting back-and-forth
with Leatherstocking, who opposed one of his grander reverts. Will seems to have a special juju that makes him impervious to Leatherstocking's sarcasm.
Sheer Narcissistic megalomania-like gloating in the third person...
(click userpage to see who the IP evidence they mentioned was for...
— The sick thing is, if you look through that one, it went back as far back as July 2007 (starting off with racist stuff against jews) and ended in September 2009, the Poetguy stuff happened around May 2009, so all that time he was trying to manipulate people from WR into the Party's battles to defend "Leatherstocking"... whilst pretending he was different than MB whilst acting in exactly the same way
QUOTE(Selina @ Mon 27th February 2012, 3:23pm)
QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 27th February 2012, 2:54pm)
the only time (we have) ever taken official notice of either Wikipedia or Herschelkrustofsky is in this article..
I am literally calling bullshit
here, and everyone here knows I don't swear much...
You've been waging a campaign for years now. And even in your own damn articles they try to make it come off as though you're some kind of uninvolved fan... a war of deliberate deception...Anyone:google.com/search?q=site:larouchepub.com "wikipedia" "About 113 results"
2007-06-06 "LaRouche-hating Wikipedia"
2007-08-29 "Wikipedia-related case, planted, like a fungus, on the. NASA web-site"
2007-11-09 "the great Ministry of Truth Wikipedia"
2007-11-09 "the Ministry of Truth, Wikipedia"
2007-11-22 "Wikipedians and others, who are content to force others to live as slaves"
"H.G. Wells' followers of the "Wikipedia" hoax"
2007-12-07 "In August 2004, User:Herschelkrustofsky followed procedure .. opposition to User:Herschelkrustofsky by other political enemies of LaRouche"
Lyndon LaRouche was interviewed by Genesis Communications Network internet radio host Jack Blood on his "Deadline Live" program today. Blood last talked during the 2004 Presidential campaign, and Blood continues to follow larouchepac.com and EIR regularly.
BLOOD: Now, what about the rumor that you were the founder of Wikipedia? You want to dispel that?
LAROUCHE: .. Jimmy Wales and I are on different wavelengths entirely!
BLOOD: I was going to ask if you can get me reinstated. I've been banned, from Wikipedia
the most widely read source of information in the world, Wikipedia
On Oct. 17, 2008, Kronberg attended and spoke at a conference sponsored by the Duggan campaign in Germany, which sought to ban the activities of German political entities associated with LaRouche. She and the gaggle of ex-LaRouche associates and Wikipedia editors
— You are JUST like Scientology in the way your main aim seem to try to defame or destroy
the lives of any political opponent that gets in your way
control of Wikipedia pages by editors hostile to LaRouche .. control of Wikipedia is far too large for our present purposes.google.com/search?q=site:larouchepac.com "wikipedia" "About 240 results"
Made a copy in case this gets dumped into a non-public forum and discussion needs to be taken elsewhere since it seems WR no longer is a safe place for discussio - since it's ok to comment on cabals only so long as they aren't part of the cabal that's grown here.
|Ego Trippin' (Part Two)
Sat 3rd March 2012, 8:39pm
Joined: Sun 13th Feb 2011, 3:07am
Member No.: 42,413
QUOTE(thekohser @ Sat 3rd March 2012, 1:25pm)
It would appear that Selina is already
(once again) in violation of the terms of her (most recent) unblock on Wikipedia. I feel bad for Selina, because I know how much she desperately wants to be a part of Wikipedia (heck, I felt the same way in 2007 and 2008), but she just seems incapable of putting down the bludgeon. She still feels the need for settling over there scores she imports from here.
Gee, Greg, I think you’re wrong about this one. After Selina made the edit you mention, SB Johnny provided a reminder
of her unblock conditions, and you’ve ignored the contributions she's made to the actual encyclopedia
since then! Why, just yesterday, she created redirects from seven different variations of "Herschelkrustofsky"
to the article on Krusty the Clown! And then she helpfully made sure
that the very first piece of information conveyed by the article on Krusty the Clown is the fact that his name is a caricature of Jewish names, the flow of the article be damned (pun intended)! And, not content to leave this information unreferenced, she cited the ever-reliable IMDB as her source. Yes, Greg, I'm afraid your prediction is off the mark. With her unblock conditions firmly in mind, Selina is surely embarking on a long career of making significant improvements to Wikipedia articles that have nothing to do with her conflicts here on WR.
Hey, Johnny, aren't you glad you unblocked her? This post has been edited by Ego Trippin' (Part Two): Sat 3rd March 2012, 8:40pm
Sun 4th March 2012, 12:15am
Can't actually moderate
Joined: Sat 17th Jun 2006, 7:47pm
Member No.: 275
QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Fri 2nd March 2012, 8:30pm)
You're probably too young to remember the Hare Krishnas annoying the shit out of people in the airport in the '80s...
Is the Symbionese Liberation Army still active? WR would be a prime target for takeover by the SLA.
I think I've pointed this out before, but we have to remember that Selina is English (or at least that's what she says, and I have no reason to doubt her). Americans mostly see LaRouche as a harmless (though louder than average) wacko, and as for his followers, we also mostly realize that there's no essential difference between a LaRouche "follower" and a LaRouche "employee," other than that the employees might be carrying guns on occasion.
The English, on the other hand, probably see it all quite differently - we know they have a low estimation of Americans' ability to dismiss the ravings of fringe political ideologues, so they presumably see him as more dangerous than we do. Moreover, LaRouche has always reserved his nastiest rhetoric for... wait for it...
that's right, the English! So they have double the reason to view him and his supporters from a highly negative perspective.
I should add that this is on top of the various things LaRouche has actually written over the years. Folks like the Chipster and Dennis King have shown that you can quote enough of that stuff to put together a quite-damning website or two. Of course, if you don't
cherry-pick to some degree, it doesn't work so good - nobody's going to slog through literally thousands of pages of self-congratulatory analysis detailing the devastating effect of the Romantic Movement and the "Venetian School" on European culture which left the masses with an insufficient appreciation for Beethoven, Schiller, and Plato, just in order to get to the "good part" about how the Rothschilds and Felix Rohatyn ultimately laid the groundwork for Nazi Germany.
So really, you can't fault Selina for opposing LaRouche - after all, everybody
opposes LaRouche, except for a handful of conspiracy nuts. But because she's English, I guess she might not realize that he's not worth getting all that worked up over...?
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)