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 Elonka vs ChrisO |
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| jd turk |
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Tue 29th July 2008, 9:32pm)  QUOTE(alan323 @ Wed 30th July 2008, 12:16am) ChrisO prepares an RFC about Elonka and Elonka prepares a response. FWIW I don't think Elonka has handled this situation very well at all. ChrisO needs someone to co-sign his RfC with him after he posts it, or else it will be deleted after 48 hours. Apropos of nothing, I just glanced at both of those pages and it drove home to me one of the reasons I left wikipedia. As a writer, why would I ever want to write that many words for free? |
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| Disillusioned Lackey |
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QUOTE(jd turk @ Tue 29th July 2008, 9:24pm)
Apropos of nothing, I just glanced at both of those pages and it drove home to me one of the reasons I left wikipedia. As a writer, why would I ever want to write that many words for free?
I completely agree. It is a complete waste of energy. Contributing to something that is so unpleasant and dysfunctional - if not cruel? No. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) |
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| Yahel Guhan |
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QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Wed 30th July 2008, 3:28am) QUOTE(jd turk @ Tue 29th July 2008, 9:24pm)
Apropos of nothing, I just glanced at both of those pages and it drove home to me one of the reasons I left wikipedia. As a writer, why would I ever want to write that many words for free?
I completely agree. It is a complete waste of energy. Contributing to something that is so unpleasant and dysfunctional - if not cruel? No. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) What makes it even worse would be when someone then comes and erases it all. I read through both arguements, and I side more with Elonka on this issue. Then again, I am bias on this issue. But her arguements do seem stronger to me. I do not think ChrisO is really a "neutral" party here. His pro-palestinian bias has been pointed out before. He has a habit of wronglfully claiming to be "neutral" on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I still remember how angry he got at me for my views on the Allegations of Apartheid issues. This post has been edited by Yahel Guhan: |
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| Yahel Guhan |
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QUOTE(alan323 @ Wed 30th July 2008, 10:14am) QUOTE(Yahel Guhan @ Wed 30th July 2008, 4:45am) His pro-palestinian bias has been pointed out before. He has a habit of wronglfully claiming to be "neutral" on the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. I don't think that link demonstrates what you think it does (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif) Where is the pro-palestinian stuff? Here are a few examples: See here, where he makes his support for the existance of the Israeli apartheid article clear for one. Second, I think his recent opening statement to the Muhammad al-Durrah mediation is very revealing about his personal feelings toward the conflict. QUOTE(ChirsO @ Tue 1st July 2008, 6:45pm) The subject of the article is the focus of an aggressive off-wiki campaign by a number of right-wing and pro-Israeli nationalist bloggers and activists, with support from a few op-ed columnists in ideologically sympathetic media outlets. Then there is his AFD nomination of Ouze Merham and his delete vote for Pallywood. Overall, when I was editing, every disputed edit ever I saw him make was either pro-palestinian or anti-Israel. I have yet to see him take the Israeli side of the dispute, while he has taken the palestinian side many times. There may be an example I am unaware of, but I have not seen it. For these reasons, I conclude he is pro-Palestinian. This post has been edited by Yahel Guhan: |
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| Milton Roe |
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Known alias of J. Random Troll
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QUOTE(Yahel Guhan @ Wed 30th July 2008, 11:22am)
Overall, when I was editing, every disputed edit ever I saw him make was either pro-palestinian or anti-Israel. I have yet to see him take the Israeli side of the dispute, while he has taken the palestinian side many times. There may be an example I am unaware of, but I have not seen it. For these reasons, I conclude he is pro-Palestinian.
Well, hell, we can't have that. Since all the pro-Israel types have been booted off Wikipedia ages ago, if we had even one pro-Palestinian remaining, it would hopelessly pull the entire project into a vicious political warp, from which it might never return. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif) Banniate him, therefore! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) This post has been edited by Milton Roe: |
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| Eleland |
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QUOTE(dogbiscuit @ Mon 4th August 2008, 10:20am) Elonka gets the RFC deleted by using her influence with ArbCom member TheBainer who goes beyond the ArbCom remit and unilaterally deletes it. Good to see ArbCom keeping the drama quotient to a suitable level. Rumble, rumble.Oh boy, that one backfired pretty quick - as was predictable. Elonka should have stuck to a strategy of "I'm just an uninvolved admin taking the high road and doing my best to enforce civility in trying circumstances, and ChrisO is a [[civil POV pusher]] who's abusing process to get his way." Recruiting a meat-puppet to try and crush the entire RfC is just going to cast doubt on her own judgment and neutrality, whatever the merit of ChrisO's claims. Mind you, her "defence" was already quite flaky - she categorizes reasonable disagreement from ChrisO as abusive "threats," etc. If anything comes of this RfC it will be mainly the result of Elonka's highhanded and inept self-defence. |
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| Apathetic |
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| AuburnPilot |
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Elonka's actions aside, the RfC and recall have already turned into a festering pile of nonsense with everyone getting in their shot. To increase the drama whoring even more, Bishonen is now threatening to block Elonka if she doesn't respond to her demands within 24 hours. But of course, Bishonen isn't an admin...I guess Bishzilla really is a second personality with no knowledge of the first. |
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| Alison |
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QUOTE(AuburnPilot @ Wed 6th August 2008, 3:44pm) Elonka's actions aside, the RfC and recall have already turned into a festering pile of nonsense with everyone getting in their shot. To increase the drama whoring even more, Bishonen is now threatening to block Elonka if she doesn't respond to her demands within 24 hours. But of course, Bishonen isn't an admin...I guess Bishzilla really is a second personality with no knowledge of the first. Welcome to Wikipedia Review, BTW (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) |
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| Proabivouac |
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Bane of all wikiland
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 6th August 2008, 9:45pm)
It's fascinating to watch the rats scurry around with silly wikilawyering arguments why Elonka cannot be recalled. Various arguments like insisting that Jehochman is not in "good standing", or that she really meant "six net editors" or some other such nonsense.
Six net editors, oh, that's good. Elonka's tactic is to make enemies, then exclude them from discussions on the ground that they have a history with her. Her friends and sycophants, on the other hand, can always be involved. Reading from the most worn page of her playbook, she has accused Jehochman of "harassment": QUOTE( Elonka Dunin) Jehochman, taking a look at your contribs over the last few days, {{user|Jehochman}}, it appears that nearly all you've been doing, is hovering over my RfC and reacting to everything. As I'm sure you know, you have already been cautioned for harassment on multiple occasions. Some of your comments at the RfC have also been, shall we say, not as truthful as they could have been. So, could you perhaps try to find something else to do on Wikipedia, that isn't related to me? Thanks, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=230213544 |
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| Cla68 |
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QUOTE(Proabivouac @ Wed 6th August 2008, 11:35pm) QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Wed 6th August 2008, 9:45pm)
It's fascinating to watch the rats scurry around with silly wikilawyering arguments why Elonka cannot be recalled. Various arguments like insisting that Jehochman is not in "good standing", or that she really meant "six net editors" or some other such nonsense.
Six net editors, oh, that's good. Elonka's tactic is to make enemies, then exclude them from discussions on the ground that they have a history with her. Her friends and sycophants, on the other hand, can always be involved. Reading from the most worn page of her playbook, she has accused Jehochman of "harassment": QUOTE( Elonka Dunin) Jehochman, taking a look at your contribs over the last few days, {{user|Jehochman}}, it appears that nearly all you've been doing, is hovering over my RfC and reacting to everything. As I'm sure you know, you have already been cautioned for harassment on multiple occasions. Some of your comments at the RfC have also been, shall we say, not as truthful as they could have been. So, could you perhaps try to find something else to do on Wikipedia, that isn't related to me? Thanks, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=230213544I've been trying to reserve judgement on the matter, but Elonka's post on Jehochman's talk page reminds me of another admin who is the current subject of two separate RfARs. To try to intimidate someone with unsupported accusations of harassment is unacceptable. She still hasn't withdrawn it. |
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| Jehochman |
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I've decide to post for the first time. The atmosphere here is a bit less corrosive today than at Wikipedia.
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| Disillusioned Lackey |
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QUOTE(Jehochman @ Wed 6th August 2008, 9:13pm)
I've decide to post for the first time. The atmosphere here is a bit less corrosive today than at Wikipedia.
I'm somewhat less sanguine and welcoming. I would see fit to ban JeHochman a priori. Beyond that for making any future comment with which I might disagree. Reciprocity and all that. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Wed 6th August 2008, 6:10pm)
I've been trying to reserve judgement on the matter, but Elonka's post on Jehochman's talk page reminds me of another admin who is the current subject of two separate RfARs. To try to intimidate someone with unsupported accusations of harassment is unacceptable. She still hasn't withdrawn it.
It's the triumvirate of the perfect storm (of hypocrisy).QUOTE(Elonka) Though I do have to admit that it amuses me that in his statement, ChrisO is trying to refer to me as some sort of junior administrator. It's true that I've only been an admin on Wikipedia since December 2007, but I would point out that I have been a professional online community manager for 20 years. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=229320753Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And your first job....... and your mother......... and your father......... and your husband....... and your ...... hobbies...... and your obsessive (ironic) COI attacks on others who do what you do ....Hey 'LONKA...... Like, girlfriend: "Get a website" (oh you did), or "get a blog" (oh, well then) ok - " get thee to a knol(lery), GO!". This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey: |
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| Jehochman |
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What are the expectations here? What are the different ways to get banned?
Lackey, think of all the fun you can have with me here. If I go away, that will be very BORING.
And where is my friend theKohser?
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| Disillusioned Lackey |
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You overestimate your capacity for "being boring" unintentionally Jon.
On existential grounds. Sui generis yawnium.
But then, there's the ripe opportunity for accidental-unintentional "take myself so seriously I become hilarious" humor too.
So it all balances.
Fun? No. Many adjectives, adverbs and such would apply. Fun is not one of them. "Idiosyncratic" comes to mind.
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| Mr. Mystery |
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QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Thu 7th August 2008, 5:42am) QUOTE(Jehochman @ Wed 6th August 2008, 9:13pm)
I've decide to post for the first time. The atmosphere here is a bit less corrosive today than at Wikipedia.
I'm somewhat less sanguine and welcoming. I would see fit to ban JeHochman a priori. Beyond that for making any future comment with which I might disagree. Reciprocity and all that. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) I'm inclined to agree with DL. When I said the Elonka recall looked like a rat fucking, i wasn't distinguishing between any of the rats! That being said, welcome Jon. Try not to overly attack or harass our dedicated volunteers. |
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| Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Thu 7th August 2008, 4:51pm) QUOTE(Cla68 @ Thu 7th August 2008, 4:40pm) QUOTE(Crestatus @ Thu 7th August 2008, 10:09pm) How come I didn't get a welcome when I came on a few days ago? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) Welcome! We need a "New members" forum where people can introduce themselves when they register. We use the Lounge for that. Welcome, Crestatus. And also, we don't care that much about you. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ohmy.gif) (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif) |
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| AuburnPilot |
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Fri 8th August 2008, 11:40am) QUOTE(Apathetic @ Fri 8th August 2008, 12:37am)
For the first time since May 10, Elonka did not edit - to avoid the veritable shitstorm that is her talk page?
Will she step down? Place your bets...
Well, I try to choose my battles, but I'm thinking about getting involved in this one. I'll check to see if Elonka has backed up her allegations against Jechochman with any evidence, or else withdrawn them. Elonka hasn't made a single edit since the very minute after the recall proposal was submitted to her talk page, so I doubt she's backed up much of anything with evidence. My bet's on her not stepping down. With as many tries at RfA as it took for her to become an admin in the first place, I don't see her handing it over because of a dispute she so adamantly disagrees with. |
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| Jehochman |
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"Try not to overly attack or harass our dedicated volunteers."
Don't worry, I'll go easy on them.
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