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This forum is for discussing specific Wikipedia editors, editing patterns, and general efforts by those editors to influence or direct content in ways that might not be in keeping with Wikipedia policy. Please source your claims and provide links where appropriate. For a glossary of terms frequently used when discussing Wikipedia and related projects, please refer to Wikipedia:Glossary.
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Would-be admin Davidwr's dark secret? |
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Kato |
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dhd
Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,521
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Member No.: 767
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Take a look at these posts and draw your own conclusions. http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?act=S...ighlite=davidwrStarting with this post by me: QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 9th December 2008, 11:04am) A guy on Wikipedia writes (bolding mine): QUOTE(Davidwr) as long as album covers like the one at issue are classified as child porn by someone's definition, then I will vehemently claim that I ahve a human right to watch, keep, create, and distribute some child pornography, at least as it's defined by the IWF, and as long as I don't market it as child pornography. It is only when the definition is tightened up to something reasonable that I will drop that claim. I think many Wikipedia editors agree with me. davidwr Coincidentally, having made that comment, the same editor ( davidwr (T-C-L-K-R-D)
) later went and removed an unrelated comment elsewhere made by User:Shapiros10 - the very young editor from the NY meetup who passionately argued against "ageism" at Wikipedia, which he took to mean the "discrimination" against 12 year olds and other minors who are devoted Wikipedia editors.
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JoseClutch |
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Ãœber Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 603
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Member No.: 2,078
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QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 5th February 2009, 12:00pm) QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 5th February 2009, 4:50pm) QUOTE(Wikileaker @ Thu 5th February 2009, 11:38am) Kato's suspicions are dead-on.
I'm not following the Shapiro10 aspect. I understand that davidwr make some irresponsible comments about "his right" to child pornography, but how does the kid at the "meet-up" fit in? Just the sheer tastelessness of it all. On Wikipedia; one minute you're proclaiming your "human right to watch, keep, create, and distribute some child pornography", the next you're interacting with some 12 year old who argues against "ageism" on the Wiki. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif) That seems perfectly consistant with the "Libertarians do not know how to handle the ethical problems associated with children" issue that crops up all over the internets. (Of course, I am not sure any other ethical system knows how to deal with children either, but that is neither here nor there).
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carbuncle |
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Fat Cat
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,601
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Member No.: 5,544
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QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 5th February 2009, 4:30pm) Coincidentally, having made that comment, the same editor ( davidwr (T-C-L-K-R-D)
) later went and removed an unrelated comment elsewhere made by User:Shapiros10 - the very young editor from the NY meetup who passionately argued against "ageism" at Wikipedia, which he took to mean the "discrimination" against 12 year olds and other minors who are devoted Wikipedia editors. That's odd. I tried to view the link Kato provided to Davidwr's interaction with Shapiros10 and found that it no longer existed. QUOTE 09:23, 2 January 2009 MBisanz (Talk | contribs) deleted "Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/BSCOUT13" ‎ (Speedy deleted per CSD G6, non-controversial housekeeping deletion. using TW)
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A Horse With No Name |
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I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,471
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Member No.: 9,985
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QUOTE(Kato @ Thu 5th February 2009, 11:30am) Take a look at these posts and draw your own conclusions. http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?act=S...ighlite=davidwrStarting with this post by me: QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 9th December 2008, 11:04am) A guy on Wikipedia writes (bolding mine): QUOTE(Davidwr) as long as album covers like the one at issue are classified as child porn by someone's definition, then I will vehemently claim that I ahve a human right to watch, keep, create, and distribute some child pornography, at least as it's defined by the IWF, and as long as I don't market it as child pornography. It is only when the definition is tightened up to something reasonable that I will drop that claim. I think many Wikipedia editors agree with me. davidwr Coincidentally, having made that comment, the same editor ( davidwr (T-C-L-K-R-D)
) later went and removed an unrelated comment elsewhere made by User:Shapiros10 - the very young editor from the NY meetup who passionately argued against "ageism" at Wikipedia, which he took to mean the "discrimination" against 12 year olds and other minors who are devoted Wikipedia editors. As I am reading the Davidwr comments in WT:RFA, it appears that he had at least one sock account that was up to no good. His indef block in June 2007 was very hush-hush -- the edit summary only states that Arbcom needs to contacted. If this sock was engaged in pushing pedophilia, then there are significant questions that need to be asked as to why he is still allowed to edit.
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JoseClutch |
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Ãœber Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 603
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 5th February 2009, 2:56pm) QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Thu 5th February 2009, 2:41pm) Is davidwr tied to a real name? Should there be privacy concerns about speculating that he advocates pedophilia? Even if the former is no, might the latter be yes?
Yes, people speculating ought to be concerned. The more he is tied to a real life identity the greater the concern should be. This is not to say we ought not to pursue the discussion. Always best to tie to statements (such as "I have a right to child pornography".) His statements and the reaction of others on Wikipedia is highly relevant to a critique of Wikipedia. Right, but here there is a range of speculation, from "He made an over-the-topish statement about the Virgin Killer album cover, but probably does not advocate anything" to "he's a pedophilic advocate". Tied with all the associations that come with that (i. e. nobody is going to think you are a pedophile advocate on principle), it might be dicey. I am just asking, obviously I cannot force the mods to do anything. But in the somewhat more reformed "set an ethical example" era of Wikipedia Review, it seems worth asking "Is it really appropriate to make public possibly dubious allegations that someone is a pedophile?" I am reluctant to say much about the sock account(s), one of which I am positive is davidwr, and three or four of which are possible. At least one of which is not related to pedophilia, but would very likely cost me enormously if I were tied to it in real life (it is, for the record, not a position I advocate. I am merely saying that, for instance, being tarred as a Young Earth Creationist, or a radical animal rights activist, or ... (other examples) could easily fit the mode here).
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carbuncle |
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Fat Cat
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,601
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Member No.: 5,544
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QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Thu 5th February 2009, 8:09pm) QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 5th February 2009, 2:56pm) QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Thu 5th February 2009, 2:41pm) Is davidwr tied to a real name? Should there be privacy concerns about speculating that he advocates pedophilia? Even if the former is no, might the latter be yes?
Yes, people speculating ought to be concerned. The more he is tied to a real life identity the greater the concern should be. This is not to say we ought not to pursue the discussion. Always best to tie to statements (such as "I have a right to child pornography".) His statements and the reaction of others on Wikipedia is highly relevant to a critique of Wikipedia. Right, but here there is a range of speculation, from "He made an over-the-topish statement about the Virgin Killer album cover, but probably does not advocate anything" to "he's a pedophilic advocate". Tied with all the associations that come with that (i. e. nobody is going to think you are a pedophile advocate on principle), it might be dicey. I am just asking, obviously I cannot force the mods to do anything. But in the somewhat more reformed "set an ethical example" era of Wikipedia Review, it seems worth asking "Is it really appropriate to make public possibly dubious allegations that someone is a pedophile?" I am reluctant to say much about the sock account(s), one of which I am positive is davidwr, and three or four of which are possible. At least one of which is not related to pedophilia, but would very likely cost me enormously if I were tied to it in real life (it is, for the record, not a position I advocate. I am merely saying that, for instance, being tarred as a Young Earth Creationist, or a radical animal rights activist, or ... (other examples) could easily fit the mode here). I thought in some countries Young Earth Creationists were valued members of the government? This post has been edited by carbuncle:
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JoseClutch |
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Ãœber Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 603
Joined:
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QUOTE(carbuncle @ Thu 5th February 2009, 4:00pm) QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Thu 5th February 2009, 8:09pm) QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Thu 5th February 2009, 2:56pm) QUOTE(JoseClutch @ Thu 5th February 2009, 2:41pm) Is davidwr tied to a real name? Should there be privacy concerns about speculating that he advocates pedophilia? Even if the former is no, might the latter be yes?
Yes, people speculating ought to be concerned. The more he is tied to a real life identity the greater the concern should be. This is not to say we ought not to pursue the discussion. Always best to tie to statements (such as "I have a right to child pornography".) His statements and the reaction of others on Wikipedia is highly relevant to a critique of Wikipedia. Right, but here there is a range of speculation, from "He made an over-the-topish statement about the Virgin Killer album cover, but probably does not advocate anything" to "he's a pedophilic advocate". Tied with all the associations that come with that (i. e. nobody is going to think you are a pedophile advocate on principle), it might be dicey. I am just asking, obviously I cannot force the mods to do anything. But in the somewhat more reformed "set an ethical example" era of Wikipedia Review, it seems worth asking "Is it really appropriate to make public possibly dubious allegations that someone is a pedophile?" I am reluctant to say much about the sock account(s), one of which I am positive is davidwr, and three or four of which are possible. At least one of which is not related to pedophilia, but would very likely cost me enormously if I were tied to it in real life (it is, for the record, not a position I advocate. I am merely saying that, for instance, being tarred as a Young Earth Creationist, or a radical animal rights activist, or ... (other examples) could easily fit the mode here). I thought in some countries Young Earth Creationists were valued members of the government? Yes, but if you work in hard sciences and are a Young Earth Creationist, you probably would not want to tell anyone. If you work at NASA, you might not want to admit you think the moon landings were faked. And so forth ...
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Kato |
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dhd
Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,521
Joined:
Member No.: 767
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Davidwr writes a rebuttal / explanation / apology of sorts. (paragraph breaks added by me for ease of reading): http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=268737614QUOTE(Davidwr) Davidwr's statements on the gist of the nut-jobbery: Without going into details, the gist was libertarian POV-pushing of certain social issues. Before being allowed back, I had a chat with the arbitrator who unblocked me. He was satisfied enough to lift the block on a single account, subject to certain conditions including no POV-pushing. This meant two things: I had to look in the mirror and realize that what I believe is "neutral" is not necessarily what wikipedia's consensus history defines as neutral, and it is the latter that must be adhered to. It also means that it's not healthy for me to edit, or admin, or in some cases even read topics that are likely to push my buttons.
Initially, this wasn't easy. The temptation to read and edit in those areas was high. After a few months it got a lot easier, but when things make the news or wiki-news, such as the December UK ISP censorship, I do jump in. I do have to be careful. Thinking back to December, there were things I would've said but didn't, and probably a thing or two that I did say that Wikipedia would've been better off if I hadn't said. I can't say I will never make a disruptive comment again, but I can say that my level of unchecked, ignore-wiki-neutrality posts will be close to zero, as it has been since my return. I've also had some real-world experiences similar to, but thankfully much less dangerous, than the guy who stared down the tanks in Tienanmen square. A reporter followed up with him about 10-15 years afterwards and basically he wanted to forget it ever happened. He just wanted to move on with his life. Of all the people in China now, he's probably among the least likely to stand up to the government. In a similar way, I'm much more cautious than I was even 2 years ago for standing up for what I believe when I know my viewpoint is unpopular.
There are also things I once believed but no longer believe as strongly. Call that lack of a backbone, call it self-preservation, or call it the maturity of knowing you aren't the center of the universe, either way, the outcome is the same: Whether I get the bit or not, the things that got me into trouble in 2007 are well behind me. davidwr/(talk)/(contribs)/(e-mail) 18:50, 5 February 2009 (UTC)
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