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> Cirt's Scientology edits - February 2011
lilburne
post Thu 17th February 2011, 12:13am
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Meanwhile Chase me, chases Cirt.
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Jagärdu
post Thu 17th February 2011, 2:52am
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QUOTE(lilburne @ Thu 17th February 2011, 12:13am) *

Wow. There is a paradox I still can't get over. Cirt was supposedly being threatened or harassed off wiki and therefore had his name changed, yada yada. Assuming that was true, and not a giant plume of smoke being blown up everyone's arse, why would anyone with knowledge of that situation think it's a good idea to allow Cirt to keep up his crusade? Isn't he just provoking all these bogeymen out there to get him? This Shutterbug sock paranoia is amusing of course.


This post has been edited by Jagärdu: Thu 17th February 2011, 2:54am
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Gruntled
post Thu 17th February 2011, 2:14pm
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QUOTE(lilburne @ Thu 17th February 2011, 12:13am) *

I think some people will have to take back some of the nastier remarks about Chase me. He's headed in the right direction. If he keeps this up, I'll be nominating him for straight shooter next time.
QUOTE(Jagärdu @ Thu 17th February 2011, 2:52am) *

Cirt was supposedly being threatened or harassed off wiki and therefore had his name changed, yada yada. Assuming that was true

Occam's razor - don't make unnecessary assumptions.
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Beer me
post Fri 18th February 2011, 2:54am
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The cult loving anthropologist has just attacked Delicious Carbuncle at BLPN over cult bashing Cirt wtf.gif
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Somey
post Fri 18th February 2011, 7:53am
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QUOTE(Beer me @ Thu 17th February 2011, 8:54pm) *
The cult loving anthropologist has just attacked Delicious Carbuncle at BLPN over cult bashing Cirt wtf.gif

I believe you're referring to this bit of business, in which Cirt tries the "nothing to see here, please move along" approach to one of his previous efforts to discredit the Scientologists.

As for the Isaac Hayes quote about bigotry, as much as I dislike Scientology, I guess I'd have to agree that it should be in the article. It's just as likely to make Hayes and the CoS look hypocritical as anything else, and it would be more fair, at least in my opinion. Besides, the CoS is taking a beating at the moment because of the story in the New Yorker about Paul Haggis, and while I don't think it's even the first nail in their coffin, recruitment-wise I think they're going to have a rough couple of years. An article on the South Park episode isn't likely to have much impact in comparison to that, and most people who like South Park aren't likely to be part of Scientology's optimal demographic anyway.
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Cedric
post Sun 20th February 2011, 9:25pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 18th February 2011, 1:53am) *

Besides, the CoS is taking a beating at the moment because of the story in the New Yorker about Paul Haggis, and while I don't think it's even the first nail in their coffin, recruitment-wise I think they're going to have a rough couple of years.

What is stranger still is that there appear to be no edits at all about the FBI slave labor investigation revealed in the New Yorker piece--nothing at all in the histories for the Church of Scientology, David Miscavige, Tom Cruise or Tommy Davis (Scientology) articles. Nothing on the talk pages either, not even on the WikiProject Scientology talk page. Nada. This seems a most unusual exercise in restraint not merely from Cirt, but all of the anti-Scilon crew at WP. This despite the fact it has been all over the media for two weeks now (interview with author here).

One wonders if a bunch of stuff just got wished off into the cornfield. Or perhaps the WMF is taking the suggestions of the FBI's legal counsel much more seriously nowadays. Or maybe both. fear.gif


EDIT: The author also has a BLP. Nothing there either.
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carbuncle
post Sun 20th February 2011, 11:17pm
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QUOTE(Cedric @ Sun 20th February 2011, 9:25pm) *

QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 18th February 2011, 1:53am) *

Besides, the CoS is taking a beating at the moment because of the story in the New Yorker about Paul Haggis, and while I don't think it's even the first nail in their coffin, recruitment-wise I think they're going to have a rough couple of years.

What is stranger still is that there appear to be no edits at all about the FBI slave labor investigation revealed in the New Yorker piece--nothing at all in the histories for the Church of Scientology, David Miscavige, Tom Cruise or Tommy Davis (Scientology) articles. Nothing on the talk pages either, not even on the WikiProject Scientology talk page. Nada. This seems a most unusual exercise in restraint not merely from Cirt, but all of the anti-Scilon crew at WP. This despite the fact it has been all over the media for two weeks now (interview with author here).

One wonders if a bunch of stuff just got wished off into the cornfield. Or perhaps the WMF is taking the suggestions of the FBI's legal counsel much more seriously nowadays. Or maybe both. fear.gif


EDIT: The author also has a BLP. Nothing there either.

I doubt that anything in the New Yorker piece is news to the people who follow the CoS closely, so there's probably not much that needs to be added (tl:dr). I suspect that everyone who edits regularly in that topic area is aware by now that controversial Scientology-related edits while there is increased scrutiny will probably be bad news for them (and almost certainly for Cirt).
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EricBarbour
post Mon 21st February 2011, 12:17am
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QUOTE
He felt unsettled by the lack of irony among many fellow-Scientologists—an inability to laugh at themselves, which seemed at odds with the character of Hubbard himself. When Haggis felt doubts about the religion, he recalled 16-mm. films he had seen of Hubbard’s lectures from the fifties and sixties. “He had this amazing buoyancy,” Haggis says. “He had a deadpan humor and this sense of himself that seemed to say, ‘Yes, I am fully aware that I might be mad, but I also might be on to something.’ ”

Why do I keep wanting to replace "Scientology" with "Wikipedia" and "Hubbard" with "Wales"?
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Kelly Martin
post Mon 21st February 2011, 12:50am
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QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sun 20th February 2011, 6:17pm) *
Why do I keep wanting to replace "Scientology" with "Wikipedia" and "Hubbard" with "Wales"?
Because you recognize a cult when you smell it?
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Cedric
post Mon 21st February 2011, 8:08pm
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QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 20th February 2011, 5:17pm) *

I doubt that anything in the New Yorker piece is news to the people who follow the CoS closely, so there's probably not much that needs to be added (tl:dr). I suspect that everyone who edits regularly in that topic area is aware by now that controversial Scientology-related edits while there is increased scrutiny will probably be bad news for them (and almost certainly for Cirt).

Not true, I'm afraid. The allegations of slave labor, physical and mental abuse, and other human rights abuses may be years, or even decades, old; but the bit about the human trafficking task force of the FBI investigating COS for slave labor practices was news to the people over at the Operation Clambake Message Board that Cirt happens to be a member of. The article, and particularly the part about the FBI investigation, has unsurprisingly lit up the board over at OCMB, and presumably has done the same over at Why We Protest. I didn't see any posts from Cirt over there regarding this; there are several relevant threads and I only skimmed over two of them.

To be investigated by the FBI for over a year for slave labor practices is a pretty big deal. It may not necessarily result in indictments, but it is not a matter to take lightly either. I may be a total outsider to the world of COS, but rather less so DOJ. It is very rare, but not unprecedented, for the FBI to actually confirm the existence of an ongoing probe. This tells me two things: 1) they have strong reason to suspect that crimes within federal jurisdiction did occur, and 2) they are aware the target of the probe already knows they are being investigated.

Also, a good measure of the seriousness with which the New Yorker took this situation appears in the Wright interview I linked to above. At 15:20 Wright describes an all-day meeting between the staff of the NY and COS. Lawyers and fact checkers were present.

We have often commented here at The Review upon WP's obsession with "recentism", particularly when it involves damning reports in the media against People We Don't Like™. Reports of slave labor investigations certainly would rank pretty high as damning info, and COS is most definitely and definitively in the category of People We Don't Like™ over at WP. Despite its irresponsible and at times vicious SOP in dealing with such situations, and the way this flap is lighting up The Rest of the Internet™, WP remains most uncharacteristically silent. Knowing what we do of the ways and wiles of the Frei Kultur Kinder, it is more than a little difficult to believe that there is not massive "off wiki" coordination going on to make sure that all relevant WP pages are kept free of any mention of the investigation.

The only questions I see here is why this is happening and who is responsible for it. It is reasonable to assume that Cirt is involved to some degree; it would be passing strange if he/she/it wasn't.
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Cla68
post Tue 22nd February 2011, 12:04am
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QUOTE(Cedric @ Mon 21st February 2011, 8:08pm) *


To be investigated by the FBI for over a year for slave labor practices is a pretty big deal. It may not necessarily result in indictments, but it is not a matter to take lightly either. I may be a total outsider to the world of COS, but rather less so DOJ. It is very rare, but not unprecedented, for the FBI to actually confirm the existence of an ongoing probe. This tells me two things: 1) they have strong reason to suspect that crimes within federal jurisdiction did occur, and 2) they are aware the target of the probe already knows they are being investigated.


How may agents has the FBI assigned full time to the CoS investigation? That's a good measure of how serious the investigation is.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Tue 22nd February 2011, 12:05am
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Milton Roe
post Tue 22nd February 2011, 2:34am
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QUOTE(Cla68 @ Mon 21st February 2011, 5:04pm) *

How may agents has the FBI assigned full time to the CoS investigation? That's a good measure of how serious the investigation is.

Just one agent. But he's a SPECIAL agent. ohmy.gif
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Cedric
post Sun 6th March 2011, 11:23pm
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Moderator note: Later posts moved here.
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