Why did Citizendium fail? Options Rating

[Peter Damian]

One of the worst things Sanger did was to start Citizendium. It failed, and Wikipedians now have a wonderful argument to add to their armoury. It failed, because of the policy on attracting experts. Ergo, crowdsourcing is the only way to build a comprehensive and reliable reference work.

Here are some reasons I think Citizendium failed:

1. There was only ever room for one Internet encyclopedia, for Google and 'network effect' reasons.

2. Experts have a limited attraction for any such project as this. I remember Larry claiming that when he advertised on the philosophy lists, philosophers would come flocking in. They didn't. I was working with one other philosopher (aka Mel Ititis on Wikipedia) at Citizendium. He left due to some petty dispute with Sanger, and I left not wanting to be the only philosopher.

3. Sanger was unspeakably rude to many of the participants.

4. After he realised that it would be hard to attract experts, the bars were lowered and all sorts of strange pondlife registered.

Just my thoughts. Or am I wrong? Is crowdsourcing the only real way to create a comprehensive and reliable reference work?

[Casliber]

furthermore, many experts are not overly enthusiastic to write on their work topic in their free time...too much like...work really.

Hammer, meet nail. This is the gist of it.

I do write articles from time to time in my area of expertise... as advertising material, posted on my blog, my company website, or on topical discussion forums. Such articles are, of course, deliberately incomplete, because I want to leave the reader with the impression that I know what I'm talking about, but at the same time not give away so much information that people who read them and who have a need for the rest of the information will actually pay me to get it. If I write a full and complete article, the reader won't need my services, and I don't get anything for the exchange.

Wikipedia wants experts to give away for free what they already know is worth money, in some cases a great deal of money, and that's not a good deal for the expert. Citizendium offered the same bargain, and thus also got few takers. And Citizendium is not even remotely comparable to Wikipedia as a self-publication venue. It doesn't have anywhere near the reach.

Naaaah, maybe in your field, but not in mine. We tried to keep the schizophrenia article as trimmed down as possible to basic/broad stuff.......and it's still huge. The same can/could be done of most medical diagnoses and therapies. Nothing mystical about them really, knowing more about how psychotherapy works doesn't make it any less effective. The more folks know about alot of medical stuff the better

The article on schizophrenia is bound to be close to 'We'kipedia's heart! Perfecting coverage to the point of not favouring any particular aspects/angles (whether the coverage broad and basic or not) is the only way to handle these articles - but is that really what you mean I wonder? I expect not. Something stated in some context gets clumsily rewritten as a plain fact, and then is rubber-stamped by some internal 'cabal' along the route to Featured Status. It's the Wikipedia way.

Every WP medical article should have a serious disclaimer - and it would have to be at gun point for most of the idiotic WP elite to allow it. Depth of research is anathema to the WP ethos, but the twin evils (when at their extremes) of the pharmo's and the 'CAM' pedlars make many if not most of the medical subjects a nightmare. Ignorant machismo is so rife on WP that the untouchable henchmen like (guess who's back? If he ever left..) the COI-undisclosed Orangemarlin tend to get their "fuck balance.. get real!" extremist way, and the WP totally breaks down under the weight of anything that is inherently important to humankind.

The scary thing is the amount of people who defend making Featured Articles on all kinds of potentially misleading (but, fuck weight, 'verified' in some passingly 'med cabal' approved way) articles. Only pure stupidity can really explain this, other human frailties are incidental. WP is a magnet to stupidity, and those who think they are in 'control' of it all really are the stupidest of the lot, as they are not even in control of their own egos. As for medical reactions, when I think of schoolyard bullies like OM and witless bilge-farmers Sandy Georgia and Eubilides, I really do feel queasy to the point of feeling properly sick.

All I meant was limiting to lowest-common-denominator-free-broadly-written material WRT fee vis paid-subscriber-only content. You've taken an interesting spin on it, now can you desist with generalised hot air and narrow down to focus on some specific complaints? Feeling queasy? We can help you with some evidence-based effective antinausea medication....

Remember when Rush was just a band?

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Sadly yes. Are you talking amyl nitrate? I prefer logging in and blocking some fucker.

Damn my secret's out!

Oh right. Very funny with seeekirt admin account. Prove it then.

[powercorrupts]

furthermore, many experts are not overly enthusiastic to write on their work topic in their free time...too much like...work really.

Hammer, meet nail. This is the gist of it.

I do write articles from time to time in my area of expertise... as advertising material, posted on my blog, my company website, or on topical discussion forums. Such articles are, of course, deliberately incomplete, because I want to leave the reader with the impression that I know what I'm talking about, but at the same time not give away so much information that people who read them and who have a need for the rest of the information will actually pay me to get it. If I write a full and complete article, the reader won't need my services, and I don't get anything for the exchange.

Wikipedia wants experts to give away for free what they already know is worth money, in some cases a great deal of money, and that's not a good deal for the expert. Citizendium offered the same bargain, and thus also got few takers. And Citizendium is not even remotely comparable to Wikipedia as a self-publication venue. It doesn't have anywhere near the reach.

Naaaah, maybe in your field, but not in mine. We tried to keep the schizophrenia article as trimmed down as possible to basic/broad stuff.......and it's still huge. The same can/could be done of most medical diagnoses and therapies. Nothing mystical about them really, knowing more about how psychotherapy works doesn't make it any less effective. The more folks know about alot of medical stuff the better

The article on schizophrenia is bound to be close to 'We'kipedia's heart! Perfecting coverage to the point of not favouring any particular aspects/angles (whether the coverage broad and basic or not) is the only way to handle these articles - but is that really what you mean I wonder? I expect not. Something stated in some context gets clumsily rewritten as a plain fact, and then is rubber-stamped by some internal 'cabal' along the route to Featured Status. It's the Wikipedia way.

Every WP medical article should have a serious disclaimer - and it would have to be at gun point for most of the idiotic WP elite to allow it. Depth of research is anathema to the WP ethos, but the twin evils (when at their extremes) of the pharmo's and the 'CAM' pedlars make many if not most of the medical subjects a nightmare. Ignorant machismo is so rife on WP that the untouchable henchmen like (guess who's back? If he ever left..) the COI-undisclosed Orangemarlin tend to get their "fuck balance.. get real!" extremist way, and the WP totally breaks down under the weight of anything that is inherently important to humankind.

The scary thing is the amount of people who defend making Featured Articles on all kinds of potentially misleading (but, fuck weight, 'verified' in some passingly 'med cabal' approved way) articles. Only pure stupidity can really explain this, other human frailties are incidental. WP is a magnet to stupidity, and those who think they are in 'control' of it all really are the stupidest of the lot, as they are not even in control of their own egos. As for medical reactions, when I think of schoolyard bullies like OM and witless bilge-farmers Sandy Georgia and Eubilides, I really do feel queasy to the point of feeling properly sick.

All I meant was limiting to lowest-common-denominator-free-broadly-written material WRT fee vis paid-subscriber-only content. You've taken an interesting spin on it, now can you desist with generalised hot air and narrow down to focus on some specific complaints? Feeling queasy? We can help you with some evidence-based effective antinausea medication....

Remember when Rush was just a band?

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Sadly yes. Are you talking amyl nitrate? I prefer logging in and blocking some fucker.

Damn my secret's out!

Oh right. Very funny with seeekirt admin account. Prove it then.

Master Casslibre, why would you cum here? Your Orgy of thieves is a frightening thing, feeding off the spent and the crushed.