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_ JzG _ Third RfC
Posted by: Cla68
A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/JzG3 has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.
Posted by: Alex
A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/JzG3 has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.
He tried to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/JzG_3 it, incredibly unsuccessfully, earlier today. God knows why.
Posted by: Cla68
A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/JzG3 has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.
He tried to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/JzG_3 it, incredibly unsuccessfully, earlier today. God knows why.
Perhaps Jechochman, since he has an account here, could come by and explain why he's opposing the RfC so vehemently. I haven't finished reviewing the entire thing and looked at all of the diffs and links, but it seems at first glance that the RfC's primary editor's reasoning has some merit.
Posted by: Son of a Yeti
Perhaps Jechochman, since he has an account here, could come by and explain why he's opposing the RfC so vehemently. I haven't finished reviewing the entire thing and looked at all of the diffs and links, but it seems at first glance that the RfC's primary editor's reasoning has some merit.
I'm really saddened by the number of sycophants Guy managed to gather as his retinue.
I believe Guy is the most deleterious admin Wikipedia has (at least since SV has been sent to WR).
Posted by: Cla68
Perhaps Jechochman, since he has an account here, could come by and explain why he's opposing the RfC so vehemently. I haven't finished reviewing the entire thing and looked at all of the diffs and links, but it seems at first glance that the RfC's primary editor's reasoning has some merit.
I'm really saddened by the number of sycophants Guy managed to gather as his retinue.
I believe Guy is the most deleterious admin Wikipedia has (at least since SV has been sent to WR).
Well, note that when he tried to MfD the RfC, hardly anyone supported him. Slightly more than a year go in this situation, FeloniousMonk, MONGO, Jossi, Jayjg, Mantanmoreland, ElinorD, Crum375, and a few others would probably have all shown up within a few minutes of each other to support its deletion.
Posted by: EricBarbour
As I said in the MZMcBride desysop thread, this is classic Guy:
The most serious incidents reported in this RfC, which is confined to use of tools while involved, took place in December of 2008, with extension into January. JzG since became quite inactive. This RfC, though, is not based on a judgment of JzG's actions overall, but only the specific issue of use of tools while involved, which, in the absence of any acknowledgment of the problem, can be expected to continue. Nevertheless, a review of his related contributions in the specific field of concern, here, show a continuation of prior behavior, and the conflicts exacerbated by the prior behavior continued. Here, though, instead of merely insulting a webmaster or making tendentious -- and later unsupported -- claims of copyright violation, he blacklisted and blocked, much more quietly. The specific issues of the blacklisting and blocks have not been addressed with caution in any neutral forum, and, once gain, this RfC has attempted to avoid the issue of whether JzG was "right" or "wrong," i.e., whether or not some particular action -- or even all actions -- would be later supported or stand. The issue here is extremely simple.
Is use of tools while involved acceptable behavior? If it is not acceptable, how do we address it? Gentle reminders have not worked.
It is literally a miracle. He isn't getting the usual ass-snorkeling from the usual fellow creeps.
What a strange sight. Even Durova has turned.
I hope this new, less-corrupt Arbcom goes after Jayjg next.
If they do, and make it stick, it's party time.
Posted by: Son of a Yeti
I hope this new, less-corrupt Arbcom goes after Jayjg next.
If they do, and make it stick, it's party time.
I wish Wikipedia well. Therefore I do hope you are right.
Posted by: Obesity
I believe Guy is the most deleterious admin Wikipedia has (at least since SV has been sent to WR).
Uhhh.... does that, like, mean he likes to delete articles and shit?
Posted by: CharlotteWebb
Uhhh.... does that, like, mean he likes to delete articles and shit?
Yeah, those are his two favorite things to do on WP.
Posted by: EricBarbour
Uhhh.... does that, like, mean he likes to delete articles and shit?
Yeah, those are his two favorite things to do on WP.
And nobody dares to clean the shit up.
Posted by: Angela Kennedy
From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:JzG/help#Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment.2FJzG3
You are a complete waste of my limited time. I am seriously wondering if you are on the autistic spectrum, your obsession with this is beyond any rational explanation. Guy (Help!) 08:33, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
Nice.
Accuse someone of having a neurological condition because his actions are "beyond any rational explanation?" WTF? Or does autism spectrum = insanity in Guy's world?But also - this is funny:
Incidentally, my friend who worked with Fleischmann is a world class expert on electrochemistry with a publicaiton list as long as your arm, an endowed chair at a British university, a worldwide lecture schedule and a standard undergraduate text to his name. And he thinks it's not fusion. And he wrote one of the control systems for one of Fleischmann's original experiments. Beware the appeal to authority. Guy (Help!) 23:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
My italics. Or am I missing something here? Is Guy being hilariously ironic or something?
Posted by: UseOnceAndDestroy
A http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/JzG3 has been dropped on JzG. I haven't read through it yet.
Spring has sprung, must be time for another JzG RFC. Since http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=16237 was just so effective, right?
Next year, could you guys put some jokes in the statement?
Posted by: Sarcasticidealist
Incidentally, my friend who worked with Fleischmann is a world class expert on electrochemistry with a publicaiton list as long as your arm, an endowed chair at a British university, a worldwide lecture schedule and a standard undergraduate text to his name. And he thinks it's not fusion. And he wrote one of the control systems for one of Fleischmann's original experiments. Beware the appeal to authority. Guy (Help!) 23:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
My italics. Or am I missing something here? Is Guy being hilariously ironic or something?
Posted by: The Joy
How many JzG RFCs does it take to get to the center of a desysop?
The world may never know.
Posted by: EricBarbour
Would, if Guy weren't so damn not-funny.
Posted by: Angela Kennedy
Incidentally, my friend who worked with Fleischmann is a world class expert on electrochemistry with a publicaiton list as long as your arm, an endowed chair at a British university, a worldwide lecture schedule and a standard undergraduate text to his name. And he thinks it's not fusion. And he wrote one of the control systems for one of Fleischmann's original experiments. Beware the appeal to authority. Guy (Help!) 23:36, 10 December 2007 (UTC)
My italics. Or am I missing something here? Is Guy being hilariously ironic or something?
To be honest I couldn't find the context, hence my asking. It's not being represented as a response of that sort on the RFC as far as I can see though, rather as a reliance on his friend's opinion and status.
The problem with Guy Chapman is I've see him accuse people of partisanship while he engages in blatant partisanship. I've see him use ad hominem ad infinitum himself while accusing others of same. And I have seen him use appeals to authority, red herrings, straw men etc. etc. So no, I wouldn't presume without question that he was attempting to illustrate the problems of appeals to authority rather than just playing trumps, that other favourite game of wikipedia stalwarts, especially given his apparent abuse of his 'admin tools' to advance his own POV (not the first time either.)
However, if the context can be found to show he was actually just illustrating the problem of appeal to authority, rather than invoking it himself to advance POV, I'll certainly stand corrected on this particular point.
The 'autistic spectrum' accusation speaks volumes. What next: 'retards' and 'spazzes'?
Posted by: Abd
Please, no tl;dr comments. If it's too long for you, then don't read it, period, and I and the rest of the world don't need to know that you are one of the billions of people who did not read it. But suit yourself.
Actually, I've got ADHD, not autism. As to the RfC being useless, well, that is probably going to depend on ArbComm. Last May or so, RfC 2 ended with "go to ArbComm," but nobody did, until JzG was added to an arbitration in September, where he was reprimanded, but no sanctions. He did, in fact, change his behavior. No FUCK OFF any more, etc. However, it's possible that he converted getting mad into getting even. But in drafting the RfC, I avoided all of this complication. The RfC asks three simple questions: was he involved with the article on cold fusion? did he use his tools with respect to the article or related pages? and is this a violation of policy? If you look through the smoke at the RfC, nobody is really disagreeing with Yes on all questions. Rather, those defending him are excusing the actions on a claim that the community supported the actions themselves. Now, that argument could be dismantled, it actually isn't true. But that, then, gets into content issues. I'm not going there, not yet.
Instead, the RfC was designed to address a clear black and white issue, one on which there is a lot of precedent, administrative recusal, and it shows just about exactly what would be in an ArbComm filing, the work has been done. Sometimes "involvement" can be unclear, but not in this case. The precedent is that if he can't admit the problem, he'll lose his admin bit, even if tons of editors pile on to defend him. Maybe he'll do it, I've been trying to get friends of his to help him see the issue for three months now, but he's blown everyone off, as far as can be seen. The "virtual cabal" is trying to turn the attention on me, but I don't think they realize what they are up against. WP:DGAF, my mantra. I've done everything I could to rescue JzG from his own intransigence, except that I'm not willing to sacrifice the project to save him. If I should happen to go down in flames, well, maybe I'll have helped editors whose contributions I'll never personally see. But I don't expect that. I did my homework.
Posted by: Mathsci
This horrible furry caterpillar has now become a fully fledged horrible furry moth.
It has come to pass, as the prophets of doom predicted, that Jehochman, the righteous, has initiated an Abd & JzG arbcom.
Expect hours of finger pointing, navel gazing, passive aggression and interminable tracts. 
Posted by: EricBarbour
Do you have a link to the end of the world? Can't find it.
Posted by: Mathsci
Do you have a link to the end of the world? Can't find it.
It's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Abd_and_JzG
Posted by: Milton Roe
Please, no tl;dr comments. If it's too long for you, then don't read it, period, and I and the rest of the world don't need to know that you are one of the billions of people who did not read it. But suit yourself.
Actually, I've got ADHD, not autism.
Well, for the rest of the world who don't have ADHD, but does have normal reading habits, would you PLEASE try to split your &^%$ing paragraphs in half? There's ample reason to do it, in every long one.
MiltonHow many JzG RFCs does it take to get to the center of a desysop?
The world may never know.
The problem is that JzG is like an onion. Or an ogre. Orrrrr a wee bit o' both, if ye ken.
Posted by: zvook
would you PLEASE try to split your &^%$ing paragraphs in half?
Err, he did, I was just admiring them actually.
Posted by: dtobias
One would think that an ArbCom case involving JzG would be the high-drama event of the current ArbCom docket, but it seems like it's being upstaged by the Macedonia naming case right below it.
Posted by: Abd
This horrible furry caterpillar has now become a fully fledged horrible furry moth.
It has come to pass, as the prophets of doom predicted, that Jehochman, the righteous, has initiated an Abd & JzG arbcom.
Expect hours of finger pointing, navel gazing, passive aggression and interminable tracts.
I'd drafted an RfAr when Jehochman beat me to it. I'm pretty concise before ArbComm. Something wrong with my navel? I kind of like it.
JzG totally ignored the charges and devoted his entire overlength screed to attacking me, providing me with more material than I could possibly use. Does he think the Committee is like his fawning followers, easily distracted by smoke and mirrors? Maybe. He did fool them once, but he had a pretty good gimmick, a quite subtle difference between media source and peer-reviewed source, so he was able to toss mud that stuck. And maybe there is more to that, I haven't researched it deeply.
Posted by: dtobias
Something wrong with my navel?
I don't know... maybe you can get the U.S. Navel Observatory to observe it?
Posted by: Kato
JzG is in that small group of people (Willy On Wheels, SlimV, Grawp etc) that I reckon have been the most disruptive individuals ever to park up at Wikipedia.
His presence at the site has been an unmitigated disaster.
Think of the hours of time wasted by JzG. Think of the many silly campaigns he's launched. Virtually every one of these campaigns has blown up in Wikipedia's face, causing massive collateral damage.
It became apparent that JzG has a wider internet presence, and he revels in this kind of drama wherever he can find it. If Wikipedia disappeared tomorrow, JzG would likely move on to some other site to get his Anger Fix. He strikes me as someone with personal problems, who simply needs this kind of thing. Which is a shame for the Wikipedios, but then I guess they ask for it by having such an open door policy in the first place.
Incidentally, JzG seems to be involved in virtually every dispute currently at Arbcom. As well as the Abd arbitration, he's in the thick of an "EddieSegoura clarification", and on another, known as "The Alastair Haines situation", JzG writes:
What on earth is he talking about? I read most threads here and I have no idea who "Alastair Hanes" is. Where on WR is this grand debate about "Alastair Hanes" occurring?
Posted by: EricBarbour
JzG is in that small group of people (Willy On Wheels, SlimV, Grawp etc) that I reckon have been the most disruptive individuals ever to park up at Wikipedia.
His presence at the site has been an unmitigated disaster.
Three different recent threads (split from two):
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=23793, http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=23506, http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=23815
It started as a Lisa Liel dispute.....
Guy is just throwing his weight around. Mebbe he hasn't fucked up anything lately.
Posted by: dtobias
What on earth is he talking about? I read most threads here and I have no idea who "Alastair Hanes" is. Where on WR is this grand debate about "Alastair Hanes" occurring?
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=23793 seems to be the major thread.
Posted by: Cla68
JzG is in that small group of people (Willy On Wheels, SlimV, Grawp etc) that I reckon have been the most disruptive individuals ever to park up at Wikipedia.
His presence at the site has been an unmitigated disaster.
Think of the hours of time wasted by JzG. Think of the many silly campaigns he's launched. Virtually every one of these campaigns has blown up in Wikipedia's face, causing massive collateral damage.
Exactly right. JzG wants to be in the thick of the action, but he's completely a loose cannon. So, he shouldn't be an admin. What would he do, however, without admin privileges? He doesn't really write articles, instead mainly http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=JzG about what links or views should be or not be allowed in various articles.
Posted by: Abd
Something wrong with my navel?
I don't know... maybe you can get the U.S. Navel Observatory to observe it?
Would they pay me? How much?