|
What is Cirt's Deal?, Did a Google Search for Cirt and Wikipedia and was shocked |
|
|
rockyBarton |
|
Neophyte
Group: Contributors
Posts: 16
Joined:
Member No.: 16,011
|
I have had a few encounters with an admin named Cirt who struck me as really territorial about certain articles. Curious, I did a Google search "Cirt wikipedia" and came up with several threads on this board. After having read them and I am shocked at the history of this editor and left wondering how someone like this can be an adminstrator.
Cirt edits more than 18 hours a day and 7 days a week to boot. How can anyone do that?
Given the number of hours Cirt edits and their anti-cult agenda, has anyone ever been suspicious that they are paid, or that the account is used by more than one person?
Doesn't Wikipedia have rules against this kind of thing?
This post has been edited by rockyBarton:
|
|
|
|
|
|
Replies
Cock-up-over-conspiracy |
|
Now censored by flckr.com and who else ... ???
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,693
Joined:
Member No.: 9,267
|
Cults are like drug dealers. It is relatively quick and easy to rise up the ranks and it needs to be because burn out and atrophy is intense. A gifted 20 odd year old could easily find themselves in a position near to or beside the cult elite ... even if it might take them a little bit longer and leaving to work out what was going on as they lack alternative 'real life' experience. A bit like a large proportion of Wikipedians, it seems. It is only after they gain that alternative 'real life' experience that they can then make and judge the cult experience and see it for what it was. Of course, the cults try and stop individuals from gaining that. The Church of Scientology has very obviously, by their own actions, loaded the entirely 'society versus "the cults"' discussion so as to make it almost impossible to have. Which is perhaps what they wanted. The same kind of thing goes on on the Wikipedia all the time. If it not possible to seed doubt to disarm an exposé, then sub-consciously even, they seek to make discussion impossible. If the Church of Scientology are the embodiment of the "masculine form" of cult activity, i.e. hard, aggressive, dominant; the Brahma Kumaris are the equal and opposite but same, the "feminine embodiment" of the cultic principle. And the same kind of dynamics are going on. I believe Cirt, in a previous incarnation, also had a minor dabble in that cult war but left it as 'a bridge too far' in wider society's defence against cultic encroachment on its commonwealth. I can understand why someone might be motivated to defend society from the encroachment of cultic memes into the realm of common understanding. This post has been edited by Cock-up-over-conspiracy:
|
|
|
|
Kwork |
|
Senior Member
Group: Special Contributors
Posts: 405
Joined:
Member No.: 16,782
|
QUOTE(pietkuip @ Sat 27th March 2010, 10:50pm) This guy is really aggressive. My guess is that he was trained by Scientology in the tactics of intimidation by litigation.
I think that anyone who has had an editorial dispute with Pieter Kuiper would find his calling Cirt "aggressive" very amusing. Does it mean, if I have a disagreement with Pieter Kuiper and find his editing aggressive, that I should conclude that he has Scientology training? Or does it just mean that he is an aggressive editor?
|
|
|
|
Kwork |
|
Senior Member
Group: Special Contributors
Posts: 405
Joined:
Member No.: 16,782
|
QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 29th March 2010, 7:10pm) QUOTE(Kwork @ Mon 29th March 2010, 1:56pm) Does it mean, if I have a disagreement with Pieter Kuiper and find his editing aggressive, that I should conclude that he has Scientology training? Or does it just mean that he is an aggressive editor? In his case, the latter. What we know about Mr. Cirt does tend to suggest an unusually high level of familiarity with (mostly US-based) cults and their methods, which as I've pointed out before is a good thing in most cases. Why he got so worked up in this instance I have no idea, other than the usual reaction of WP'ers to people who try to thwart them in some way. He probably shouldn't have been made an admin, but I'd even be willing to back off on that statement if he showed some self-restraint in these kinds of situations, and maybe apologized to Mr. Kuiper here (which is obviously not gonna happen). If we eliminated all the WP users who have been made administrators, but should not have been, how many would there be left? (As for Pieter Kuiper, my experience with him is that when the argument is over there is nothing to motivate an apology.)
|
|
|
|
Somey |
|
Can't actually moderate (or even post)
Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,816
Joined:
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275
|
QUOTE(Kwork @ Mon 29th March 2010, 2:20pm) If we eliminated all the WP users who have been made administrators, but should not have been, how many would there be left? Obviously that depends on who you ask, but I've always figured the number to be around 60 percent. But the Return on Desysopping Investment (RoDI) figure doesn't chart as a straight line, it's more of a steep hockey-stick curve (to borrow a term from the GW debate). That is to say, if you desysop the worst 1 percent, which is only about 20 people, you'll probably solve 50 percent of your admin-related problems (ARPs); if you desysop the worst 5 percent you'll solve 70 percent of ARPs; the worst 10 percent and you'll solve 80 percent of ARPs, and so on. I could put together a graphic if that would help, but you get the general idea. I'd say if you desysop about 50-60 people, and assuming they were the right people, you'd reach the point where the number of admin-related complaints drops below the Threshold of Legitimate Concern (TLC). It still wouldn't be a proper encyclopedia of course, and you'd still have content-related issues, but those things are probably inevitable.
|
|
|
|
Kelly Martin |
|
Bring back the guttersnipes!
Group: Regulars
Posts: 3,270
Joined:
From: EN61bw
Member No.: 6,696
|
QUOTE(gomi @ Mon 29th March 2010, 3:03pm) Actually, if you ritually desysopped and banned the worst 5 admins each month, I think you'd hit the TLC pretty quickly. Admins love a show of force, after all, and there is much value in the image of heads on pikes in front of the castle, pour encourager les autres. Are you kidding? Have you watched how they turn on someone once it becomes obvious that they're going to be thrown out of the treehouse? Those monthly ritual desysoppings would turn into some sort of weird Saturnalia ritual or something, with massive scheming behind the scenes jockeying for who's going to get the whack this month. Remember, these are people who watch, and enjoy, shows like Survivor.
|
|
|
|
pietkuip |
|
Junior Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 81
Joined:
Member No.: 12,524
|
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Wed 31st March 2010, 7:10am) Actually, credit where credit is due, Cirt has done a great job now with the Aaron Saxton (T-H-L-K-D) article. The people skills may suck sometimes, but the research skills are top-class. I do not agree. Cirt's article is basically a catalogue of the media coverage of the Australian senator's after-business speech. Turkish and Romanian newspapers are quoted to inflate the number of links. But curiously, Cirt does not give a link to the Hansard with the verbatim record of what Xenohon said. That reference would have made most of the rest unnecessary - which is not what Cirt wants. Cirt only wrote this article because I had made a deletion request on commons for Saxton's self-published YouTube videos (not out of the blue, there was discussion about whether such videos belong on Commons, and I made the deletion request to channel the discussion to a proper place). Cirt's defense was to immediately write an article about this Very Important Scientologist (that nobody had heard of before). And he started using the YouTube videos in the article, which almost automatically means that they are kept on commons. Someone filed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Saxton (T-H-L-K-D), and the main reason that people give for keeping it is the enormous number of links. Cirt knows how to to that, with clusters of media references that are not at all independent from eachother. This post has been edited by pietkuip:
|
|
|
|
HRIP7 |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 483
Joined:
Member No.: 17,020
|
QUOTE(pietkuip @ Wed 31st March 2010, 10:28am) QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Wed 31st March 2010, 7:10am) Actually, credit where credit is due, Cirt has done a great job now with the Aaron Saxton (T-H-L-K-D) article. The people skills may suck sometimes, but the research skills are top-class. I do not agree. Cirt's article is basically a catalogue of the media coverage of the Australian senator's after-business speech. Turkish and Romanian newspapers are quoted to inflate the number of links. But curiously, Cirt does not give a link to the Hansard with the verbatim record of what Xenohon said. That reference would have made most of the rest unnecessary - which is not what Cirt wants. Cirt only wrote this article because I had made a deletion request on commons for Saxton's self-published YouTube videos (not out of the blue, there was discussion about whether such videos belong on Commons, and I made the deletion request to channel the discussion to a proper place). Cirt's defense was to immediately write an article about this Very Important Scientologist (that nobody had heard of before). And he started using the YouTube videos in the article, which almost automatically means that they are kept on commons. Someone filed Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Aaron Saxton (T-H-L-K-D), and the main reason that people give for keeping it is the enormous number of links. Cirt knows how to to that, with clusters of media references that are not at all independent from eachother. Cirt certainly knows how to make a thin smattering of sources go a long way, sometimes stretching them almost to breaking point in the process. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) If you leaf through the beginning of this thread, A Horse with No Name gave a few good examples where Cirt seemed to have used practically every last source available to make a vigorous article on an obscure topic. But the Aaron Saxton BLP now does have biographical data; it's no longer just a coatrack, and Cirt has explained for example that the Sea Org that Saxton belonged to, described in one source as "Scientology's senior management", actually comprises several thousand people. You know and I know that Cirt only uploaded the videos and wrote the article in order to maximise the exposure these youtube videos will get. But I still admire the Wikipedian craftsmanship (in research and writing, that is; I don't endorse Cirt's methods of conflict resolution). Cirt was prepared to put in the work to make the article acceptable, by Wikipedia criteria, so good luck to her. That these criteria produce a Wikipedia with strange priorities is inherent in the basic concept that anyone should be able to write about whatever they want, as long as there is coverage in reliable sources. It's why we have wonderfully detailed articles about Pokemons and Scientology spoofs, and a crap article on a Nobel Prize winner like Doris Lessing (T-H-L-K-D).
|
|
|
|
Somey |
|
Can't actually moderate (or even post)
Group: Moderators
Posts: 11,816
Joined:
From: Dreamland
Member No.: 275
|
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Wed 31st March 2010, 7:19am) Cirt only wrote this article because I had made a deletion request on commons for Saxton's self-published YouTube videos (not out of the blue, there was discussion about whether such videos belong on Commons, and I made the deletion request to channel the discussion to a proper place). Cirt's defense was to immediately write an article about this Very Important Scientologist (that nobody had heard of before). And he started using the YouTube videos in the article, which almost automatically means that they are kept on commons. FYI, today he started a Wikiversity Project "incorporating" these videos (it's really just a catalog of the videos with no related "coursework," natch). I presume that's just in case he gets overruled on the WP articles. Did we ever find out why he's so anti-CoS? I mean, most people are anti-CoS to some extent, which is good, but this guy really goes all-out! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)
|
|
|
|
pietkuip |
|
Junior Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 81
Joined:
Member No.: 12,524
|
QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 11th April 2010, 2:46am) FYI, today he started a Wikiversity Project "incorporating" these videos (it's really just a catalog of the videos with no related "coursework," natch). I presume that's just in case he gets overruled on the WP articles. Interesting. A very transparent move to secure that these videos are "in project scope" according to the rules on Commons. Cirt has now got me blocked for a month on Commons, with support from Cuerden and Durova (nice to see that they patched up their quarrel), and from volunteer coordinator Bastique. They are putting pressure on admins that are inclined to lift the block. Ah well, Commons has become just as bad as the rest of the wikipedia.
|
|
|
|
HRIP7 |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 483
Joined:
Member No.: 17,020
|
QUOTE(pietkuip @ Sun 11th April 2010, 9:23am) QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 11th April 2010, 2:46am) FYI, today he started a Wikiversity Project "incorporating" these videos (it's really just a catalog of the videos with no related "coursework," natch). I presume that's just in case he gets overruled on the WP articles. Interesting. A very transparent move to secure that these videos are "in project scope" according to the rules on Commons. Cirt has now got me blocked for a month on Commons, with support from Cuerden and Durova (nice to see that they patched up their quarrel), and from volunteer coordinator Bastique. They are putting pressure on admins that are inclined to lift the block. The whole sorry mess about Pieter's block is here. Interesting Wikiversity project. I note Cirt included the Ranch School video that is now gone from that Wikipedia article. Cirt clearly sees it as her mission to turn Commons into a public-domain version of Xenu TV). And in principle there is nothing wrong with that, or with writing project content that makes use of these materials. It would just be nice if Cirt could do it without shouting "harassment" when Pieter nominates her copyright violations in Commons for deletion.
|
|
|
|
Abd |
|
Postmaster
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,919
Joined:
From: Northampton, MA, USA
Member No.: 9,019
|
QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Sun 11th April 2010, 9:50am) The whole sorry mess about Pieter's block is here. Arrggh. I read it. What I noticed was that, sure, Pieter didn't know when to stop. However, what about Cirt? I see certain editors/admins yelling at Pieter that he should stop it, but Cirt kept putting up more and more complaints about Pieter. It was obvious from the beginning that both editors should be told to stop, maybe even be short-blocked if they didn't. And then, the elephant in the living room. Pay no attention to this elephant. An admin blocks Pieter for the second time, wheel-warring. Clearly involved, shouldn't have touched Pieter with tools. Matter already under discussion. No consensus. This should be open and shut. The admin's privileges should be suspended until the admin provides the community with satisfactory assurances that it won't happen again. There is no ArbComm there, so it should be done by a bureaucrat on his or her own neutral judgment, after a discussion. And possibly pending discussion, as a "suspension." I've not advocated desysopping for making a mistake. I've pointed out, though, that refusal or inability to acknowledge recusal failure maintains an ongoing hazard, and failing to address this creates and maintains an impression of arbitrary, biased, and capricious administration. Not that I expect it to change. I'm really interested, now, in this stuff because of possible future utility.
|
|
|
|
Posts in this topic
rockyBarton What is Cirt's Deal? Kelly Martin Probably just someone who is living off of unearne... rockyBarton
Probably just someone who is living off of unearn... Nerd
I think it totally describes Cirt. Look at this ... rockyBarton
[quote name='rockyBarton' post='211254' date='Tue... A Horse With No Name
I guest what I think is wrong is that they can ha... thekohser
Say, does anyone know who Cirt is off-Wiki? :rol... Nerd
Look at how active they are.
http://toolserver.o... Friday
They have blocked editors more than 4000 times an... rockyBarton
They have blocked editors more than 4000 times a... thekohser
...when (sic) say such blatently (sic) hostile th... Nerd
...when (sic) say such blatently (sic) hostile t... Somey He did say "Wow, you're an idiot" th... Giano
Probably just someone who is living off of unearn... A Horse With No Name
I have had a few encounters with an admin named C... carbuncle
[quote name='rockyBarton' post='211243' date='Tue... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Cirt edits more than 18 hours a day and 7 days a w... Nerd
Cirt edits more than 18 hours a day and 7 days a ... Somey Given the number of hours Cirt edits and their ant... rockyBarton
Given the number of hours Cirt edits and their an... A Horse With No Name
I don't have a horse in that race.
What a... Somey I don't have a horse in that race. I was at ... A Horse With No Name The [wparticle]Corbin Fisher article is more conce... Somey My cash goes into the bet that Cirt is being well-... A Horse With No Name
My cash goes into the bet that Cirt is being well... Somey In reading his articles, it is obvious that Cirt i... Krimpet
Agreed; these articles definitely go beyond mere ... Random832 Thank the good Lord for Baconnaise and Baconnaise ... Krimpet
Contains no actual bacon. â“ŠD
Well, to get ... Milton Roe
Cirt doesn't need the trust of the WP "c... carbuncle My cash goes into the bet that Cirt is being well... Cedric
Either way, it's dicey - that appears to be t... SB_Johnny
you can't deny the basic fact that everything... rockyBarton
I don't have a horse in that race. I was at... Milton Roe
I don't have a horse in that race. I was at... A Horse With No Name If somebody creates a gay porn article that prett... Nerd
[quote name='Friday' post='211458' date='Wed 23rd... A Horse With No Name
[quote name='Friday' post='211458' date='Wed 23r... Somey [quote name='Milton Roe' post='211459' date='Wed 2... A Horse With No Name
Anyway, there's a legitimate argument to be m... Trick cyclist
Anyway, there's a legitimate argument to be m... CharlotteWebb
the WMF must know who he is because he's a ch... Trick cyclist
the WMF must know who he is because he's a c... Lar
[quote name='CharlotteWebb' post='212275' date='M... Trick cyclist
An ArbCom, once elected with at least 25-30 folk ... Lar
An ArbCom, once elected with at least 25-30 folk... chrisoff *Cirt is quite aggressive and territorial about ... pietkuip
*Cirt is quite aggressive and territorial about ... Killiondude
Very aggressive and threatening, like [url=http:/... Somey Very aggressive and threatening, like [url=http://... chrisoff
Yup! Durova's great judgement on display... pietkuip
Even so, something like that... that's just [... The Joy Cirt is something of a jerk. He even argued with ... A Horse With No Name This article confirms that Cirt is being paid to p... Trick cyclist You're missing most of the story. He's ac... SirFozzie I love the attitude here "He writes too well ... carbuncle
I love the attitude here "He writes too well... A Horse With No Name
I love the attitude here "He writes too well... Cla68
I love the attitude here "He writes too wel... EricBarbour Well, well. It's about time someone ran afoul ... A Horse With No Name
Even weirder: he's been suspected of being We... carbuncle
I have a theory. There is a single person in cont... wikiwhistle
Oh, and: he's been suspected of being a Scie... thekohser Hey, I've got to say any editor who basically ... EricBarbour Oh, I forgot to add: Cirt was suspected of being E... wikiwhistle
Oh, I forgot to add: Cirt was suspected of being ... Somey Wasn't that the argument Durova made in his Rf... Milton Roe
Wasn't that the argument Durova made in his R... A Horse With No Name Since we know what tends to happen when admins st... Mathsci Now this... pietkuip
Now this...
And now Durova says that my response... Wiki Witch of the West
[quote name='Mathsci' post='228296' date='Thu 25t... Somey Hey guys. Honestly Piet, what ain't aggressiv... Wiki Witch of the West
Now, I happen to believe that anything that bashe... EricBarbour NOR aside, there's no second guessing how much... Somey Saxton left Scientology in his early twenties. Th... Wiki Witch of the West
Ehh, okay, but you're not really addressing t... thekohser
checkuser-confirmed
Another one of those words ... Wiki Witch of the West
[quote name='Wiki Witch of the West' post='228533... pietkuip
Let's cut to the chase. A couple of days ago... HRIP7
[quote name='Wiki Witch of the West' post='228407... Cock-up-over-conspiracy This guy is really aggressive. My guess is that he... HRIP7
Nah, it was Sai Baba he was into.
You got Cirt ... Cock-up-over-conspiracy You got Cirt mixed up with Andries or someone, met... HRIP7 Here Pieter Kuiper is in for round 2 at WP:AE: I... pietkuip
Here Pieter Kuiper is in for round 2 at WP:AE: I... Cock-up-over-conspiracy I looked at some of the YouTube material that he u... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='228803' date='Sun 28th ... Cock-up-over-conspiracy The whole thing is way out of proportion. Scientol... Abd The whole thing is way out of proportion. Scientol... HRIP7 Pieter Kuiper is topic-banned for two weeks under ... pietkuip
Pieter Kuiper is topic-banned for two weeks under... HRIP7
This guy is really aggressive. My guess is that h... Milton Roe
This guy is really aggressive. My guess is that ... pietkuip
Interesting Wikiversity project. I note Cirt incl... HRIP7
There is video there that shows anti-cult activis... HRIP7 There is of course another aspect to these compila... CharlotteWebb
There is of course another aspect to these compil... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='231070' date='Sun 11th ... HRIP7 I've just realised that User:ShakataGaNai actu... pietkuip
[quote name='HRIP7' post='231070' date='Sun 11th ... HRIP7
If not before, I was well aware that I ought to a... pietkuip
You forgot [url=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki... HRIP7
You forgot [url=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wik... HRIP7
Well, you have been unblocked by Kameraad Pjotr. ... HRIP7
[quote name='HRIP7' post='231236' date='Mon 12th ... Somey This is not the usual copyright line in Wikimedia ... pietkuip why can't these WP'ers occasionally push a... tarantino
She knows nothing can happen to her.
Cirt is a ... EricBarbour [quote name='HRIP7' post='231236' date='Mon 12th A... HRIP7
[quote name='tarantino' post='231471' date='Tue 1... taiwopanfob
You forgot [url=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki... radek
Remember, these are people who watch, and enjoy, ... Sarcasticidealist Remember, these are people who watch, and enjoy, s... CharlotteWebb
Edit: Oh, and Kelly's completely right about ... Kwork
[quote name='Kwork' post='229065' date='Mon 29th ... EricBarbour Since WP is itself very like a cult, those who are... Kwork
Since WP is itself very like a cult, those who ar... pietkuip Appeals to the arbitration committee take four wee... chrisoff Who is Durova like on Survivor? Zoloft
Who is Durova like on Survivor?
I like to use a ... Moulton Wow, Gerard really is wearing a T-Shirt mocking Sc... chrisoff Did I miss something? Is Cirt Smeelgova? (I assume... Kelly Martin Did I miss something? Is Cirt Smeelgova? (I assume... HRIP7
Did I miss something? Is Cirt Smeelgova? (I assum... chrisoff
Interesting. I haven't notice these attribut... HRIP7 Further to the Everybody Draw Mohammed Day thread,... Kwork
Further to the Everybody Draw Mohammed Day thread... Orderinchaos I think anyone who knows me would accept that I do... pietkuip
Pieter's persistence was the main reason for ... Kwork
Pieter's persistence was the main reason for... pietkuip
Your phrase "threatening and bullying" ... Kwork
Your phrase "threatening and bullying... Milton Roe
Pieter's persistence was the main reason for... Somey So if you have anything to do with defending Scien... HRIP7 Jimbo seems to have woken up to the fact that Cirt... Cock-up-over-conspiracy Jimbo seems to have woken up to the fact that Cirt... HRIP7
Yeah, let's avoid the issue.
Well, you have ...
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| |