Slim & Jay: Gone?, Linda and "Jay", bye Options

[Infoboy]

I think Slim is gone under that name:

I've noticed that most of the history of your talk page has been deleted, including several thousand revisions with nothing harmful. Was this unintentional? I noticed you weren't the one who carried out the deletion, and there wasn't a reason cited at the time. Night Gyr (talk/Oy) 23:24, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

This has been raised and answered several times in several places, including one of the noticeboards (I forget which, and it was archived a long time ago), here and here. As you are an administrator, I'm sure you know that it's not possible to click a button that will delete just the inappropriate revisions, when trolls post personal details, or what they believe to be personal details. You have to delete everything, and then restore everything that isn't objectionable. Now, when people have been trolling you for over a year, and have made harassing posts on (say) 17 June, 29 June, 2 July, 11 July, 20 July, 28 July, . . . . . . . . right up to today, and then an administrator sees more trolling and deletes the page again, it's not just a simple matter of restoring everything except today's edit. And when there are over thousands of edits in the deleted history, and you really don't want to restore something inappropriate through carelessness or stupidity, the best thing is to wait. I'm sure Slim would have restored the page herself long ago, after Crum375 deleted it, except that unfortunately she has been victim of a lot more harassment since then. Apart from the difficulty of going through the deleted history to decide what should and what shouldn't be restored, there's also the problem that it's so massive that the computer may freeze! I have been in touch with SlimVirgin privately about the best way to restore the page. For the moment, I would suggest that it's not a highly urgent matter, and that people should let the matter drop until she comes back. If she doesn't come back, it's even less urgent, as I recall Jimbo posting that when people leave and want their talk pages deleted, there's nothing wrong with respecting their wishes. ElinorD (talk) 23:52, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

So there is currently no time table, plans or estimation for when this will be done? --Android Mouse 00:59, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Need to immediately observe/monitor all their pet projects & articles to see where they resurface, or if they already have. This should be a new project and goal, I think. I think Linda and Jay finally got the message, combined with wikien-l calling for them to leave.

Combine that with the fact that Linda Mack as SlimVirgin began getting non-Wikipedia/Wikipedia Review press at the EXACT same time that "Andrew Blum" as Jayjg came out in a wide way, both User:SlimVirgin and User:Jayjg all but vanish. I think the community and Internet oversight groups hit the bullseye. Slim is Linda, Jay is Andrew, and they're gone.

Neither have any business nor right to return without being identified for people to be aware of their nonsense. If their Wikicareers are over if they get 'spotted' again under new names, so be it. Bye. Work well with others and be nice people, and everyone will leave you alone. Try to be special people that are more important than everyone else and abuse other human beings, and you will be watched, tagged, monitored, and released back into the wild like the animals you choose to act like.

Some argue that SlimVirgin, AKA Linda Mack, and Jayjg, AKA Andrew Blum, are now on lifetime Wikipedia community probations.

This post has been edited by Infoboy: Sat 11th August 2007, 6:26pm

[jorge]

I think Slim is gone under that name:

Some argue that SlimVirgin, AKA Linda Mack, and Jayjg, AKA Andrew Blum, are now on lifetime Wikipedia community probations.

Jay isn't Andrew Blum.

[blissyu2]

A little over a year ago, in July 2006, SlimVirgin quit Wikipedia for good, in response to Daniel Brandt finding out what her real name was.

A week later, after SlimVirgin had got the requisite amount of sympathy from everyone on the mailing lists, and they had managed to get even more WR members banned, and we were hated even more than ever, SlimVirgin came back.

So wait for a bit to see. But as you say there is a chance that she is gone for good. There's also a chance that this is a publicity stunt.

Jay isn't Andrew Blum.

Jayjg *probably* isn't Andrew Blum. Remember there was a point in time when we weren't sure if SlimVirgin was Sarah McEwan, after we'd previously decided it was, then it turned out that she was. I don't think we've completely crossed out the Andrew Blum link.

However, in saying that, we shouldn't be listing his real name in a public forum until we know for sure.

[jorge]

Jayjg *probably* isn't Andrew Blum. Remember there was a point in time when we weren't sure if SlimVirgin was Sarah McEwan, after we'd previously decided it was, then it turned out that she was. I don't think we've completely crossed out the Andrew Blum link.

However, in saying that, we shouldn't be listing his real name in a public forum until we know for sure.

No we have already ruled it out about three times actually.

[blissyu2]

Jayjg *probably* isn't Andrew Blum. Remember there was a point in time when we weren't sure if SlimVirgin was Sarah McEwan, after we'd previously decided it was, then it turned out that she was. I don't think we've completely crossed out the Andrew Blum link.

However, in saying that, we shouldn't be listing his real name in a public forum until we know for sure.

No we have already ruled it out about three times actually.

We've ruled it out when we have a better name, I think.

[jorge]

No we have already ruled it out about three times actually.

We've ruled it out when we have a better name, I think.

Err no... the link with Andrew Blum was always a rubbish link- nothing even remotely convincing had been provided to link Jayjg with Andrew Blum. See this discussion where we pretty much decided that the Blum link was a hoax.

[blissyu2]

Oh whatever. It hasn't been dismissed, its just that we haven't gone any further. If Andrew Blum comes forward and provides evidence that that couldn't possibly be him THEN we can dismiss it as a link. Or alternatively if Jayjg comes forward and proves that he couldn't possibly be him THEN we can dismiss it. Until then its just an opinion.

[jorge]

Oh whatever. It hasn't been dismissed, its just that we haven't gone any further. If Andrew Blum comes forward and provides evidence that that couldn't possibly be him THEN we can dismiss it as a link. Or alternatively if Jayjg comes forward and proves that he couldn't possibly be him THEN we can dismiss it. Until then its just an opinion.

The only "evidence" for the link was someone posting an idiotic message on youtube with videos of some disabled guy. If you think that counts as good evidence then fine.

[GlassBeadGame]

Regardless of Jayjg's identity, which I don't think we have yet resolved, inducing SlimVirgin and Jayjg to quit is a tremendous victory. I think it probably premature to assume they won' return just yet. If this was a pilot project of the intelligence community it is likely that the whole thing will be judged a failure. If they do not return it is only prudent for us to continue to monitor and assess the possibility that they are operating under new (or heretofore sleeping) pseudonymous identities.

[jorge]

Regardless of Jayjg's identity, which I don't think we have yet resolved, inducing SlimVirgin and Jayjg to quit is a tremendous victory. I think it probably premature to assume they won' return just yet. If this was a pilot project of the intelligence community it is likely that the whole thing will be judged a failure. If they do not return it is only prudent for us to continue to monitor and assess the possibility that they are operating under new (or heretofore sleeping) pseudonymous identities.

Unfortunately I think you're being too optimistic- I am sure people like them would have already maintained sockpuppets for this eventuality, or if they are being coordinated by some kind of group that group would already have other representatives in place.

[GlassBeadGame]

Regardless of Jayjg's identity, which I don't think we have yet resolved, inducing SlimVirgin and Jayjg to quit is a tremendous victory. I think it probably premature to assume they won' return just yet. If this was a pilot project of the intelligence community it is likely that the whole thing will be judged a failure. If they do not return it is only prudent for us to continue to monitor and assess the possibility that they are operating under new (or heretofore sleeping) pseudonymous identities.

Unfortunately I think you're being too optimistic- I am sure people like them would have already maintained sockpuppets for this eventuality, or if they are being coordinated by some kind of group that group would already have other representatives in place.

I see your point, Jorge. Still the lose of social networking clout, and access to Checkuser privileges would be a serious blow.

[Heat]

SV deleted several pages today so she's still active. The post on her talk page is intriguing though.

The ArbComm case against Jay and several of his allies has been certified and will be posted tomorrow. We'll see if Jay resurfaces to defend himself. I don't believe he's simply "on vacation" since anywhere Jay goes to would likely have internet. Also, wouldn't Jay have announced he's on "wikivacation" rather than just sink without a trace?

[blissyu2]

Well, lets just monitor developments. Don't get too hopeful tho. SlimVirgin and a bunch of other people disappeared a year ago too. There should be some links here.

[jorge]

I see your point, Jorge. Still the lose of social networking clout, and access to Checkuser privileges would be a serious blow.

How do we actually know he will longer continue to have access to Checkuser? In fact, how do we know that Jimbo Wales hasn't given the powers to anyone he feels like?

Considering the way that Jayjg and SlimVirgin have been given free reign to control articles relating to Israel and Palestine by Mr. Wales we should also look at his appointment of Danny Wool who was formerly CHIEF EDUCATOR AT THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH HERITAGE IN NEW YORK. I suppose that is just a coincidence right? I notice that a Ruth Mack is listed in the Board of Overseers of the Museum here but she may be unconnected.

[guy]

How do we actually know he will longer continue to have access to Checkuser? In fact, how do we know that Jimbo Wales hasn't given the powers to anyone he feels like?

He can continue to use CheckUser without editing and we'd be none the wiser. Probably he can even oversight. However, a new CheckUser editor would show up in the list of users.

[GlassBeadGame]

I see your point, Jorge. Still the lose of social networking clout, and access to Checkuser privileges would be a serious blow.

How do we actually know he will longer continue to have access to Checkuser? In fact, how do we know that Jimbo Wales hasn't given the powers to anyone he feels like?

Considering the way that Jayjg and SlimVirgin have been given free reign to control articles relating to Israel and Palestine by Mr. Wales we should also look at his appointment of Danny Wool who was formerly CHIEF EDUCATOR AT THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH HERITAGE IN NEW YORK. I suppose that is just a coincidence right? I notice that a Ruth Mack is listed in the Board of Overseers of the Museum here but she may be unconnected.

These are good questions. They are also questions the WMF Trustees need to ask.

[jorge]

I see your point, Jorge. Still the lose of social networking clout, and access to Checkuser privileges would be a serious blow.

How do we actually know he will longer continue to have access to Checkuser? In fact, how do we know that Jimbo Wales hasn't given the powers to anyone he feels like?

Considering the way that Jayjg and SlimVirgin have been given free reign to control articles relating to Israel and Palestine by Mr. Wales we should also look at his appointment of Danny Wool who was formerly CHIEF EDUCATOR AT THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH HERITAGE IN NEW YORK. I suppose that is just a coincidence right? I notice that a Ruth Mack is listed in the Board of Overseers of the Museum here but she may be unconnected.

Possibly no connection at all but interesting anyway:
(From here)

"I stayed in Vietnam until July 1968. I was there during the Tet Offensive and I ran one courier mission to the Paris Peace Talks. I was in my mid-twenties, not important in the scheme of things, but I was a conduit for information and passed a lot of material on to people who could do more with what I saw through my eyes.

My former grad school professor, Ruth Mack, was a high level advisor in Washington. In the summer of 1968, she picked my brains for every shred of information I had, constantly reassuring me that every word would be used well. She didn't need to beg me for my time. I remember sitting in her garden by the sea in Connecticut. I told her the war wasn't worth one drop of anyone's blood. I told her it would be difficult to make movies about the war because there were no heroes and no heroic deeds. I told her that no mother should lose a son and no wife should lose a husband over such a stupid war.

The conversation ended the way many such conversations do. Ruth was Jewish and she asked how I would have addressed Hitler if I had been alive then. This question may perhaps never die, and I don't have the answers. Ideally, people would refuse to give such power to anyone. I'm a pacifist, unequivocal pacifist, no exceptions. We do not solve problems through murder. We solve them by refusing to empower those who misuse their power. We do this through boycotting, through voting, through information and perhaps even civil disobedience, but two wrongs do not make a right."

[jorge]

Considering the way that Jayjg and SlimVirgin have been given free reign to control articles relating to Israel and Palestine by Mr. Wales we should also look at his appointment of Danny Wool who was formerly CHIEF EDUCATOR AT THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH HERITAGE IN NEW YORK. I suppose that is just a coincidence right? I notice that a Ruth Mack is listed in the Board of Overseers of the Museum here but she may be unconnected.

These are good questions. They are also questions the WMF Trustees need to ask.

What are they going to say? "We think that that there has been an organized campaign by certain Jewish lobbyists to control content on Wikipedia and we think you J Wales have fully assisted them in doing that"? Jimbo would just dismiss them as anti-semites/conspiracy theorists and appoint new trustees.

Possibly no connection at all but interesting anyway:
(From here)

"I stayed in Vietnam until July 1968. I was there during the Tet Offensive and I ran one courier mission to the Paris Peace Talks. I was in my mid-twenties, not important in the scheme of things, but I was a conduit for information and passed a lot of material on to people who could do more with what I saw through my eyes.

My former grad school professor, Ruth Mack, was a high level advisor in Washington. In the summer of 1968, she picked my brains for every shred of information I had, constantly reassuring me that every word would be used well. She didn't need to beg me for my time. I remember sitting in her garden by the sea in Connecticut. I told her the war wasn't worth one drop of anyone's blood. I told her it would be difficult to make movies about the war because there were no heroes and no heroic deeds. I told her that no mother should lose a son and no wife should lose a husband over such a stupid war.

The conversation ended the way many such conversations do. Ruth was Jewish and she asked how I would have addressed Hitler if I had been alive then. This question may perhaps never die, and I don't have the answers. Ideally, people would refuse to give such power to anyone. I'm a pacifist, unequivocal pacifist, no exceptions. We do not solve problems through murder. We solve them by refusing to empower those who misuse their power. We do this through boycotting, through voting, through information and perhaps even civil disobedience, but two wrongs do not make a right."

Was Pierre Salinger in government with Ruth Mack during the Vietnam war?

[GlassBeadGame]

Considering the way that Jayjg and SlimVirgin have been given free reign to control articles relating to Israel and Palestine by Mr. Wales we should also look at his appointment of Danny Wool who was formerly CHIEF EDUCATOR AT THE MUSEUM OF JEWISH HERITAGE IN NEW YORK. I suppose that is just a coincidence right? I notice that a Ruth Mack is listed in the Board of Overseers of the Museum here but she may be unconnected.

These are good questions. They are also questions the WMF Trustees need to ask.

What are they going to say? "We think that that there has been an organized campaign by certain Jewish lobbyists to control content on Wikipedia and we think you J Wales have fully assisted them in doing that"? Jimbo would just dismiss them as anti-semites/conspiracy theorists and appoint new trustees.

For a start they should rigorously identify and vet all person with Checkuser privleges. These vettings should be made public with real identities of Checkuser revealed. Additionally the board needs to investigate the possibility that intelligence agencies are misusing the project.

[Jonny Cache]

Additionally the board needs to investigate the possibility that intelligence agencies are misusing the project.

I'm sure that the Board has already looked into the possibility that intelligence agencies might be interested in Wikipodium's, er, "service provisions".

Jonny