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Posted by: carbuncle

After User:Erik added a picture to Don Murphy, the following note appeared on his talk page:

Posted by: Tarc

Man, I just happened to comment on this over there a moment ago. Am I being stalked?

The image itself is shit, and I'm not really clear on how an image from someone flickr stream gets licensed CC in the first place.

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 12:44pm)

Posted by: carbuncle

Apocalypse possibly back on if Don Murphy doesn't have a stroke while furiously yet impotently pounding his keyboard:

Posted by: Ottava

Did everyone forget that a NLT block is ended as soon as the threat is over? And seeing as how the image is removed there is no more threat?

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 8:41pm)

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 3:51pm)

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 9:07pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 3:51pm)

And his monkey, too.

Bastards! That isn't even his monkey!

These people will just ban anyone (or any monkey) they please, not caring about the wide-ranging implications of banning innocent monkeys without anything even approaching just cause.

So, who's been watching the NFL draft?

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 4:09pm)

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 9:34pm)

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 4:09pm)

I was, and everyone was pissed off when after waiting so long only for the Ravens to give up their late 1st round draft pick so there was no pick for them last night.

True, but it was the smart move. Most people seem to agree that after the first 15 picks, the talent level is likely to be pretty consistent for the next hundred or so. Besides, if there's no lockout next year, there's probably going to be a LOT of unrestricted free agents. That means this is the year to trade down in the draft for more late-round picks - 2011 picks in general are likely to have less value trade-wise, if that's actually what happens.

Funny, I wouldn't have expected you to be interested in that sort of thing!

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 4:57pm)

Posted by: victim of censorship

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 8:51pm)

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 8:41pm)

Did everyone forget that a NLT block is ended as soon as the threat is over? And seeing as how the image is removed there is no more threat?

I think Murphy's past threats and harassment of various people have resulted in him being permabanned.
And his monkey, too.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 10:01pm)

QUOTE(Ottava @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 4:57pm)

At the DC Meetup, I was the only one to be watching the Jets woop up on the Bengals. Baltimore is a football town. I am glad to have a strong alternative to the team I was forced to embrace when I was small (the team formerly led by Mr touchy grabby in the nightclub).

Formerly? I thought they said they weren't going to trade him.

Maybe I should become a Ravens fan too - that might be better than waiting for Dan Snyder to finally grow up and have a heart attack, so that someone competent can take over.

QUOTE(victim of censorship @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 10:22pm)

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(victim of censorship @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 5:22pm)

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 3:30pm)

QUOTE(victim of censorship @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 5:22pm)

I think the monkey looks a like a typical Wikpediot administrator at a Meetup

Come on - don't be so insulting to monkeys! Besides, if there were any real similarity there, Murphy would be punching the monkey in the face, not shaking his hand.

That brings up an interesting question - can you shake hands with a vole? I'd have to say you probably can shake hands with a mole, since they have those big front paws for digging, but a vole... they don't have the big front paws.

Posted by: EricBarbour

Gad. http://restlessbee.com/services

No wonder he spends so much time writing about movies on WP.
No life at all.

Posted by: dtobias

Murphy is just being a smelly lump of feces as usual. I checked on the status of the image, and the original Flickr posting was indeed released under a CC license permitting remixing/adaptation, so no copyrights were violated. Even if they were, the rights would belong to whoever took the picture, not to Murphy himself, so he would have no grounds to sue.

Posted by: GlassBeadGame

QUOTE(dtobias @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 9:48pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 7:50pm)

QUOTE(dtobias @ Fri 23rd April 2010, 9:48pm)

Murphy is just being a smelly lump of feces as usual. I checked on the status of the image, and the original Flickr posting was indeed released under a CC license permitting remixing/adaptation, so no copyrights were violated. Even if they were, the rights would belong to whoever took the picture, not to Murphy himself, so he would have no grounds to sue.

Not if it was a work for hire.

Posted by: Peter Damian

Some messages from 'Erik Kraft' on User:Erik's page, from the IP 95.177.43.18 which is London registered. He claims to know nothing about Wikipedia and therefore not the Wikipedia editor user:Erik. Which is puzzling as he claims only to have heard of this in the last hour.

* How did he find User:Erik page on Wikipedia
* How did he know it was to do with Don Murphy, who only identified himself as 'Don'?
* How did he learn to indent with a colon and use three 's for bold type? Perhaps the colon he learned from the person who replied to his first message, but how the bold?
* How does he know what an 'edit war' is?

Posted by: Theanima

It's sad that Don Murphy got the name completely wrong and decided to ruin this completely innocent person's day by ringing them up. It clearly upset them.

I did a bit of my own research and have found what User:Erik's real name is more likely to be. How they came up with Erik Kraft, I don't know.

Posted by: Somey

I know I've said this before, but it bears repeating:

Despite the success of the Transformers movies and Natural Born Killers, I just don't see how Mr. Murphy here could be said to have reached the kind of "household name" status that would necessitate Wikipedia's having an article about him. Maybe if he were a bit more of a self-promoter, or had some hit TV-series credits, he'd be there with folks like Jerry Bruckheimer or Stephen Bochco, whom everybody's pretty much heard of. But I'm pretty sure I could name several guys with longer (and possibly more impressive) resumes who don't have WP articles. Let's face it, the reason Don Murphy is in Wikipedia is because Wikipedia is full of kids who grew up playing with Transformers action figures, and one or two of them probably didn't like it when their suggestions for what to do on the first movie were rejected. That's it, that's the entirety of it right there. It's one of the stupidest reasons for starting a WP article I know of (though I'm sure there's plenty worse out there that just haven't come to my attention).

When are they going to just delete the article? How many people with the same name(s) as some lame-brained WP "editor" (sheez, "Erik Kraft" probably isn't even his real name!) are going to have to suffer because Wikipedians can't keep it in their pants?

And it's not just real-name accounts, either - for example, if the Murphy article were under attack by User:Can't Sleep, Clown Will Eat Me, just imagine how many people who actually are insomniacs due to fear of circus clowns would suffer? Or if the person was User:Kiss Me Ladies, I'm the Cavalry - just think of all the heterosexual horsemen wearing military uniforms would suddenly be under attack by messageboard "goons" for no apparent logical reason? And don't even ask what would happen if it were User:Everybody Everywhere...

The people insisting that this article be kept are, quite simply, morons. I'll bet a group of organ-grinder monkeys would do a vastly better job of managing the content on Wikipedia, if this is the best the existing regime can do.

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 24th April 2010, 8:08pm)

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 2:19pm)

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 12:19pm)

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 24th April 2010, 7:39pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 2:19pm)

It's not like he is a minor backstage guy - he has produced nearly a dozen notable films. You can't expect to be treated as if you're a nobody if you're a film producer.

"Nobody"? Who is saying he should be treated like a "nobody"? Are you saying everyone who doesn't have a Wikipedia article is a "nobody"?

What Wikipedians want, and how they personally wish to "treat" people, shouldn't be the issue here. The issues should be privacy, fairness, and responsibility in the face of defamation and revenge. None of which Wikipedians are interested in having.

Posted by: Doc glasgow

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Sat 24th April 2010, 8:55pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 12:19pm)

Encyclopedias do not need to just be about "household names".

Ones that are editable by anybody should be about ANY names, unless the person is dead. Otherwise, you make every person who has done anything very positive with their lives at all that gets them noticed by "media" pay a penalty of having to watch their Wiki very day do be sure it doesn't slander them. That really sucks, and it's hard to believe you defend the idea.

Now, don't come back and say "What about that politician who wants to put his name and face on everything from my neighbor's front lawn to every other TV ad?" And the answer is: "Maybe, but there's no good way to draw the line between that person and anybody else who didn't seek notariety for its own sake, but found it thrust upon them without them "asking for it."

Posted by: LessHorrid vanU

The person who needs a WP article is the photographer that could make Don Murphy look good - from the photo used here - and I am finding it hilarious that the image Don/Col would very much prefer not to have adorning the WP article on him is one that he (per this very discussion) paid to have taken, and is otherwise available in the hinderwebs...

Posted by: Tarc

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 3:19pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 8:01pm)

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

Murphy got the wrong Erik. I don't have the dox on the right Erik, but I have evidence that it is not Erik Kraft in Chicago.

Veromi.net and zabasearch.com show that Erik A. Kraft in Chicago is 33 years old. This is the same Erik Kraft suspected by Murphy, as proven by the registration on erikkraft.info, which is his domain on his résumé, the same one that is linked on Murphy's forum. One of the zabasearch.com entries for him shows that he once lived at the same address as the one listed in WHOIS for the erikkraft.info domain. That's Erik Kraft.

But the Erik that Murphy really wants once added his age and birthday http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Erik&oldid=77560211. He said his birthday is December 31 and he is 20 years old. That would mean his birthdate is 1985-12-31, turning 21 at the end of 2006. Today he would be 24 years old. Moreover, that same page says that he was born in Chicago, but there isn't any evidence I've seen that he lives in Chicago.

The User:Erik that Murphy wants is nine years younger than Erik A. Kraft in Chicago.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:04pm)

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 10:04pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sat 24th April 2010, 10:12pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:04pm)

Murphy got the wrong Erik. I don't have the dox on the right Erik, but I have evidence that it is not Erik Kraft in Chicago.

Veromi.net and zabasearch.com show that Erik A. Kraft in Chicago is 33 years old. This is the same Erik Kraft suspected by Murphy, as proven by the registration on erikkraft.info, which is his domain on his résumé, the same one that is linked on Murphy's forum. One of the zabasearch.com entries for him shows that he once lived at the same address as the one listed in WHOIS for the erikkraft.info domain. That's Erik Kraft.

But the Erik that Murphy really wants once added his age and birthday http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Erik&oldid=77560211. He said his birthday is December 31 and he is 20 years old. That would mean his birthdate is 1985-12-31, turning 21 at the end of 2006. Today he would be 24 years old. Moreover, that same page says that he was born in Chicago, but there isn't any evidence I've seen that he lives in Chicago.

The User:Erik that Murphy wants is nine years younger than Erik A. Kraft in Chicago.

Then why does user:Erik remove the reference to being at The University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, shortly after Erik Kraft is called by Murphy? Makes no sense.

[edit] They both attended Illinois at Urbana-Champaign in 2006. Erik Kraft as a mature student, age about 29, user:Erik who says he was 20. Was his statement on the user page correct?

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:04pm)

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:21pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 12:01pm)

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 10:44pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 12:01pm)

It's sad that Don Murphy got the name completely wrong and decided to ruin this completely innocent person's day by ringing them up. It clearly upset them.

I did a bit of my own research and have found what User:Erik's real name is more likely to be. How they came up with Erik Kraft, I don't know.

Except you're crazy.

Leaving aside all the evidence on this thread alone, I had already zeroed in on the use of the term EDIT WAR. There's just no way it's a separate guy. And he's editing on UK time.

I would love to hear the phone call to the police (as if)- Hi, this guy called me up and asked me why I was messing with his article. The guy was in LA, I live in Chicago but he reached me in the UK. I feel physically threatened please help me. Christ the desk sergeant would call for the net.

I also love the turds who are going to call Jimmy Wales. He's too busy cleaning his tee shirt cum stains, kiddo.

Theanima, prove me wrong by private msg. Which you won't.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Sat 24th April 2010, 3:54pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 10:44pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 12:01pm)

It's sad that Don Murphy got the name completely wrong and decided to ruin this completely innocent person's day by ringing them up. It clearly upset them.

I did a bit of my own research and have found what User:Erik's real name is more likely to be. How they came up with Erik Kraft, I don't know.

Except you're crazy.

Leaving aside all the evidence on this thread alone, I had already zeroed in on the use of the term EDIT WAR. There's just no way it's a separate guy. And he's editing on UK time.

I would love to hear the phone call to the police (as if)- Hi, this guy called me up and asked me why I was messing with his article. The guy was in LA, I live in Chicago but he reached me in the UK. I feel physically threatened please help me. Christ the desk sergeant would call for the net.

I also love the turds who are going to call Jimmy Wales. He's too busy cleaning his tee shirt cum stains, kiddo.

Theanima, prove me wrong by private msg. Which you won't.

I'd still love to hear why you commissioned an amazingly bad photograph of yourself, and what the evidence of this ownership is.

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sat 24th April 2010, 2:25pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sat 24th April 2010, 8:01pm)

It's sad that Don Murphy got the name completely wrong and decided to ruin this completely innocent person's day by ringing them up. It clearly upset them.

I did a bit of my own research and have found what User:Erik's real name is more likely to be. How they came up with Erik Kraft, I don't know.

The evidence points to the person not being completely innocent at all. Per my comment here

http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=29341&view=findpost&p=232876

Why would 'User Erik' remove from his user page the information about his university at exactly the time Erik Kraft was phoned by Murphy?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Erik&diff=prev&oldid=358006391

You will object that Erik Kraft immediately got in touch with User:Erik to tell him to remove it. But if Erik Kraft knew nothing about user:Erik, how was that? All the evidence points to Mr Kraft as being entirely guilty.

And now user:Erik has a sock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Erik.kraft

QUOTE

Oh man Erik, I really appreciate it. This has been such a bizarre and scary episode, but it's good to know that the decent people here seem to far outnumber the trolls. It's truly unbelievable to go through this guy's message board and see how he sics his anonymous thugs on people for the slightest perceived offenses. Erik.kraft (talk) 19:09, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

I'm grateful to you for doing this--and I've gone ahead and created a wikipedia account (erik.kraft) so that it doesn't seem like I'm trying to hide behind anonymity. Which is clearly not possible anyway. Feel free to refer to me as erik.kraft going forward. I'll be following the ANI page and will post further details as I have them. And I even just learned to sign my posts: --> Erik.kraft (talk) 19:06, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Erik&oldid=358061671

This is laughable.

[edit] Even more laughs

QUOTE

::It's not that funny to be outed, guys... in any case, I will be working on his article. If someone like Tarc does not see Murphy's notability in his article, then the producer has successfully exerted control over it. First off, I removed his website, which is an attack site. To re-cite his background, I found [http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/queens/2009/10/20/2009-10-20_producer_transforms.html this], which further solidifies Murphy's notability. I am not sure if I will be further harassed, so I hope admins will keep an eye on the article as I bring my expertise to it. [[User:Erik|Erik]] ([[User talk:Erik|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Erik|contribs]]) 10:41, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
+
+ ::: Erik, this is Erik Kraft. Can you explain what you mean by "outed"? Because as far as I can tell it was me who was "outed" and you are still anonymous. You used the same language on your now-deleted Talk page and this was part of the reason why Don was convinced I was you. I feel like I'm through the looking glass here. [[User:Erik.kraft|Erik.kraft]] ([[User talk:Erik.kraft|talk]]) 21:17, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Talking to himself. (Note the time difference. He gets called by Murphy, and complains as User:Erik that he has been outed. Then he complains, as the Erik Kraft, that he has been outed. Then the penny drops.)

Posted by: Ottava

Transformers being a crappy movie is enough reason to justify an AfD of any article connected to it. The sequel was even worse.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:13pm)

Transformers being a crappy movie is enough reason to justify an AfD of any article connected to it. The sequel was even worse.

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:25pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:18pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:25pm)

No they are the same age (33). User:Erik was lying about his age, obviously.

Two different people, or User:Erik was lying in 2006 about his age.

The age 33 for Erik A. Kraft is solid; this comes from various public records. His exact birthday seems to be 1977-03-23. On his résumé he says "B.A., English, and B.A., Psychology, College of Letters and Science University of Wisconsin-Madison, December 1999." (You can still see the cache copy of it by searching for "erik kraft"+resume in Google.)

In 1999 User:Erik was too young to graduate; he would have been almost 14. Also, on that résumé Erik A. Kraft says that he did grad work at U.Illinois: "M.L.I.S., Graduate School of Library and Information Science University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, May 2005." There is no reason to doubt this.

Yesterday User:Erik added this line to his user page: "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign." That's not quite the same thing, but it's close enough to raise eyebrows. It might even be true, although that would be quite a coincidence.

Today User:Erik deleted it and added this edit summary: "Removed incriminating information to avoid harassment."

I suspect that User:Erik is closely following the Murphy forum, and cleverly added that bit yesterday as a "false flag" operation. It looks like the Murphy forum link to the résumé appeared just hours before User:Erik added that line.

Then today he deleted it, with an eyebrow-raising edit summary, perhaps because he realized that he may be liable if it is proven that this information is false. The timing of User:Erik's posting and removal, and his edit summary, are potentially a problem for him. Originally he posted a photo that Murphy doesn't want posted, while hiding behind a screen name (that's bad enough). Now he might be playing games with Murphy (not a good idea).

It could make him liable if he is posting false information that facilitates the harassment of Erik A. Kraft, an innocent party, in order to further obscure his own identity.

Anyway, this is all speculation, but I think my scenario is much more likely than the scenario that User:Erik lied in 2006 on his user page about his age. In my scenario he had a motive for what he's done since yesterday, but I don't see any motive for lying about his age in 2006. I hope Murphy finds User:Erik, whoever he is.

By the way, I think there's enough questionable shenanigans going on here to get User:Erik thoroughly checkusered for all of his edits that relate at all to Murphy and/or Transformers, from as far back as the logs permit.

Arbcom, where are thee?

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:20pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:18pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:25pm)

No they are the same age (33). User:Erik was lying about his age, obviously.

Two different people, or User:Erik was lying in 2006 about his age.

The age 33 for Erik A. Kraft is solid; this comes from various public records. His exact birthday seems to be 1977-03-23. On his résumé he says "B.A., English, and B.A., Psychology, College of Letters and Science University of Wisconsin-Madison, December 1999." (You can still see the cache copy of it by searching for "erik kraft"+resume in Google.)

In 1999 User:Erik was too young to graduate; he would have been almost 14. Also, on that résumé Erik A. Kraft says that he did grad work at U.Illinois: "M.L.I.S., Graduate School of Library and Information Science University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, May 2005." There is no reason to doubt this.

Yesterday User:Erik added this line to his user page: "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign." That's not quite the same thing, but it's close enough to raise eyebrows. It might even be true, although that would be quite a coincidence.

Today User:Erik deleted it and added this edit summary: "Removed incriminating information to avoid harassment."

I suspect that User:Erik is closely following the Murphy forum, and cleverly added that bit yesterday as a "false flag" operation. It looks like the Murphy forum link to the résumé appeared just hours before User:Erik added that line.

Then today he deleted it, with an eyebrow-raising edit summary, perhaps because he realized that he may be liable if it is proven that this information is false. The timing of User:Erik's posting and removal, and his edit summary, are potentially a problem for him. Originally he posted a photo that Murphy doesn't want posted, while hiding behind a screen name (that's bad enough). Now he might be playing games with Murphy (not a good idea).

It could make him liable if he is posting false information that facilitates the harassment of Erik A. Kraft, an innocent party, in order to further obscure his own identity.

Anyway, this is all speculation, but I think my scenario is much more likely than the scenario that User:Erik lied in 2006 on his user page about his age. In my scenario he had a motive for what he's done since yesterday, but I don't see any motive for lying about his age in 2006. I hope Murphy finds User:Erik, whoever he is.

By the way, I think there's enough questionable shenanigans going on here to get User:Erik thoroughly checkusered for all of his edits that relate at all to Murphy and/or Transformers, from as far back as the logs permit.

Arbcom, where are thee?

Love you Brandt and your work. I aspire to be you some day.

All I can say is if we got the wrong ERIK
then how come the clown just fucking RETIRED

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Erik

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:15pm)

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:13pm)

Transformers being a crappy movie is enough reason to justify an AfD of any article connected to it. The sequel was even worse.

Yeah but seriously, how does it feel to work for a porn promoter? A man who uses you and laughs at your fat, stupid face? The two TFs have made me very rich. Has Wikipedia made you anything except more afraid of girls?

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:25pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:20pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:18pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:25pm)

No they are the same age (33). User:Erik was lying about his age, obviously.

Two different people, or User:Erik was lying in 2006 about his age.

The age 33 for Erik A. Kraft is solid; this comes from various public records. His exact birthday seems to be 1977-03-23. On his résumé he says "B.A., English, and B.A., Psychology, College of Letters and Science University of Wisconsin-Madison, December 1999." (You can still see the cache copy of it by searching for "erik kraft"+resume in Google.)

In 1999 User:Erik was too young to graduate; he would have been almost 14. Also, on that résumé Erik A. Kraft says that he did grad work at U.Illinois: "M.L.I.S., Graduate School of Library and Information Science University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, May 2005." There is no reason to doubt this.

Yesterday User:Erik added this line to his user page: "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign." That's not quite the same thing, but it's close enough to raise eyebrows. It might even be true, although that would be quite a coincidence.

Today User:Erik deleted it and added this edit summary: "Removed incriminating information to avoid harassment."

I suspect that User:Erik is closely following the Murphy forum, and cleverly added that bit yesterday as a "false flag" operation. It looks like the Murphy forum link to the résumé appeared just hours before User:Erik added that line.

Then today he deleted it, with an eyebrow-raising edit summary, perhaps because he realized that he may be liable if it is proven that this information is false. The timing of User:Erik's posting and removal, and his edit summary, are potentially a problem for him. Originally he posted a photo that Murphy doesn't want posted, while hiding behind a screen name (that's bad enough). Now he might be playing games with Murphy (not a good idea).

It could make him liable if he is posting false information that facilitates the harassment of Erik A. Kraft, an innocent party, in order to further obscure his own identity.

Anyway, this is all speculation, but I think my scenario is much more likely than the scenario that User:Erik lied in 2006 on his user page about his age. In my scenario he had a motive for what he's done since yesterday, but I don't see any motive for lying about his age in 2006. I hope Murphy finds User:Erik, whoever he is.

By the way, I think there's enough questionable shenanigans going on here to get User:Erik thoroughly checkusered for all of his edits that relate at all to Murphy and/or Transformers, from as far back as the logs permit.

Arbcom, where are thee?

Love you Brandt and your work. I aspire to be you some day.

All I can say is if we got the wrong ERIK
then how come the clown just fucking RETIRED

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Erik

Because he doesn't want to be harassed by you and your cronies?

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:29pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:15pm)

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:13pm)

Transformers being a crappy movie is enough reason to justify an AfD of any article connected to it. The sequel was even worse.

Yeah but seriously, how does it feel to work for a porn promoter? A man who uses you and laughs at your fat, stupid face? The two TFs have made me very rich. Has Wikipedia made you anything except more afraid of girls?

I have to say that no matter how much crappy porn is on Wikipedia, it is still more tasteful than Transformers was.

Posted by: Zoloft

Meanwhile, HalfShadow steps on the land mine:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:HalfShadow#Blocked_for_one_week

...and seems to be headed for an indef.

I believe they call this 'collateral damage.'

I think the Decepticonsâ„¢ got him.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:40pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:54pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:40pm)

You don't "have" to say anything, loser. Answer the question- what benefit have you gotten from working for free for the porn king?

Well, the benefit of not having my name on two of the worst movies of all time?

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:57pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sat 24th April 2010, 5:09pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:57pm)

but you didn't get that from working for free for the pornographer. You got that from your day job cleaning out public lavs. So then nothing for all that free work? What a pathetic oaf you are.

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sat 24th April 2010, 5:09pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:57pm)

but you didn't get that from working for free for the pornographer. You got that from your day job cleaning out public lavs. So then nothing for all that free work? What a pathetic oaf you are.

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

That would be telling.
You are #6.

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 24th April 2010, 7:16pm)

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 24th April 2010, 5:23pm)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sat 24th April 2010, 5:09pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:57pm)

but you didn't get that from working for free for the pornographer. You got that from your day job cleaning out public lavs. So then nothing for all that free work? What a pathetic oaf you are.

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

That would be telling.
You are #6.

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sat 24th April 2010, 5:09pm)

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

That would be telling.
You are #6.

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sun 25th April 2010, 1:23am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sat 24th April 2010, 5:16pm)

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

That would be telling.
You are #6.

Ha ha ha. Pwned.


A few idle observations:
1) Erik (T-C-L-K-R-D) has spent a lot of time editing articles dealing with movie adaptations of comic books, particularly Batman, Iron Man, etc. as well as articles for other movies that nerdy guys really, really like. And I mean, he edited them. Fifty to one hundred edits, a day, every damn day of the week, for months at a stretch.

2) http://news.illinois.edu/news/05/1207bookupdate.html of Erik Kraft if you need one.

3) don't confuse him with http://erikpkraft.com/, a Boston author of juvenile fiction. (Whom I suspect of http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Erik_P._Kraft&action=history, but whatever.)

4) after looking thru a lot of web bullshit, I am really suspicious that Erik (T-C-L-K-R-D) and http://www.restlessbee.com/ are the same guy. "Both" of these Eriks have gone to great, massive lengths to "manicure" their web presences, thus displaying a similar obsessive attention to details. Despite their apparent differences in age and interests, they're both such massive nerds, that in the absence of a blatant connection, they still look like they could easily be the same person. Doesn't help that Erik Kraft just erased his http://www.linkedin.com/pub/erik-kraft/11/2b6/bb3, and is going around deleting his other web presences. Just too damn suspicious. If they aren't the same guy, I'll bet they would make very good drinking buddies.

5) just PS: Erik (T-C-L-K-R-D) used to have a sock, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&limit=500&target=Erikster.

Posted by: victim of censorship

QUOTE(Ottava @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:16am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sat 24th April 2010, 5:09pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:57pm)

but you didn't get that from working for free for the pornographer. You got that from your day job cleaning out public lavs. So then nothing for all that free work? What a pathetic oaf you are.

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

That would be telling.
You are #6.

You seem to hate everyone. Just curious, but you don't happen to be seeking advice from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Palpatine do you?

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

User:Erik says on ANI that the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=next&oldid=358061941. This is curious in light of the fact that User:Erik posted info on his user page on the 23rd and then deleted it on the 24th. Both of these edits amounted to pinning a target on Erik Kraft's back. Why did he do this? Is User:Erik just stupid, or is he also malicious?

Something is not right here, to say the least.

Erik Kraft, the university librarian based in Chicago, is all over the web. He knows a lot about web design and books. If you try to find any evidence that he cares at all about films or cared at all about editing Wikipedia before a few days ago, then you won't find anything. It doesn't take that long for a computer geek to figure out how to edit Wikipedia, and I discount the claim that his recent competent Wikipedia edits are evidence that User:Erik and Erik Kraft are the same person.

User:Erik must watch at least two movies a day. He has thousands of edits on Wikipedia about films. If you look for any evidence that he has web design skills or interests, or works as a librarian, or has ever read a book, you won't find anything.

I could easily have missed something, and hope someone can find anything I missed. It looks to me like User:Erik pulled a fast one, and also added a couple dozen edits to Murphy's bio in the last couple of days since taking down the photo. This smacks of bad faith, since he has known for years that Murphy doesn't want that bio. It's the old Wikipediot game of claiming that some BLP victim is notable, and assuming that this confers anonymous editors with automatic rights which overrule the BLP victim's rights. Wikipedia needs a slogan — how about "Let's be evil" !

User:Erik is acting like a teenager. I cannot believe he's Erik Kraft, 33 years old with a Masters degree and a real job, plus a web design business on the side. Now if he is 24 years old and lives in his mother's basement, and spends money on DVD rentals and purchases — now that's something I can believe.

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 8:30pm)

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 8:30pm)

Posted by: Cock-up-over-conspiracy

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:11pm)

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(Somey @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:52pm)

Posted by: Somey

Personally, I don't put too much stock into timezone-based editing-habit data as a means of figuring out where a person lives, particularly if the person is self-employed, unemployed, or employed in the porn industry, which seems to describe a fairly large percentage of WP'ers. I myself am typing this at 3:22 AM CST, which is when most people in the UK are just arriving at their offices or shops or whatever it is they do. People in the Far East are on their way home, and of course, people living in the Kuiper belt probably all froze to death the instant they stepped out of the airlock.

I must be getting really jaded, too, because I'm pretty sure 3 years ago I would have seen something like this and been completely fascinated by it, but now I'm just thinking, "oh no, not another one..."

Mind you, there have been some really positive things happening over on Wikipedia lately - as hard as it is to admit, many of the really abusive old-guard types are either losing interest or losing clout, or both, and the content of certain articles seems to be starting to reflect that. (And naturally, Jimbo is taking as much credit for this as possible.) Yeah, there's a lot of porn, but it's the internet, so you have to expect that, if not actually accept it... But then something like this happens, and you just have to wonder, what the hell are these people thinking?

Anyhoo, the basic point remains - Murphy's a producer, one of many on most of the films he works on. If he'd been the director or even the screenwriter on all those films, maybe I could see why it would be necessary for a pop-culture-based encyclopedia-like website to have an article on him, but unless he wins a bunch of Oscars or something, I just don't see the necessity of it for a producer. Note that I'm not saying WP should delete all articles about movie producers; in fact, I'm sure most movie producers who don't currently have WP articles about them would love to have them. Most movie producers are probably really nice people. I'm just saying there's no need for articles on them in the vast majority of cases, and the WP'ers certainly don't have some sort of God-given right to post and carry them, either. (Though obviously they would disagree.)

Posted by: Peter Damian

Some more puzzles. The Erik Kraft IP starts editing on 16:01 UT on 24 April. There is no overlap with user:Erik. He makes a spate of edits to user:Erik's page (and one to user:Arcayne, which I can't figure out).

At 18:00 the IP stops, then user:Erik starts offf with a spate of edits including a round robin of ANI, Jimbo page and so on.

At 18:58 user:Erik posts a message on ANI with a message to 'Erik Kraft' apologising for the mess. At 19:03 Erik.Kraft opens a Wikipedia account, then at 19:06 he replies to the ANI message from user:Erik.

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

I was thinking of a timeline of the last few days only, involving that http://www.donmurphy.net/board/showthread.php?t=33622 and the naming of Erik Kraft, User:Erik's edits, Murphy's phone calls, Erik Kraft's responses, ANI and talk page responses, the mysterious IP-only responses, and how they might all imply some sort of possible interplay between them.

These http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AErik&action=historysubmit&diff=357881824&oldid=355541622 http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Erik&diff=next&oldid=357893981 are important. How it unfolded in the very beginning is more important than the fog that rolled in later.

If you can make a circumstantial case that User:Erik engaged in legally-actionable behavior as serious as what I'm suspecting, Murphy could write to Mike Godwin and demand all available checkuser data on User:Erik.

I don't see how Godwin could refuse.

I could see collusion between the two Eriks, where User:Erik is being clever and playing good guy with Erik Kraft, while Erik Kraft is unaware of the long history behind Murphy's bio, and the long-standing inclusionist bias of User:Erik. At one point Kraft asked somewhere whether anyone had any evidence about whether Murphy might be a physical threat. He really was ready to go to the police (assuming, for a moment, that this really was Kraft). Since Murphy was already the bad guy for Kraft, User:Erik could play on this and reinforce Kraft's fears of Murphy. This way Kraft feels like he has a comrade in arms, and User:Erik can use Kraft more easily in his fight against Murphy.

Just speculation, you understand.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sun 25th April 2010, 10:16am)

Posted by: Moulton

QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:25am)

Posted by: Peter Damian

More time line puzzles. All times below are in UT.

User:Eric stops editing at 14:49 on the 24 April.

14:49, 24 April 2010 (diff | hist) Talk:Don Murphy ? (?Expansion: cm)

At some time between then and 16:01, Erik Kraft gets called by Murphy. We know this because at 16:01 Eric Kraft's IP posts on user:Erik's talk page, using the == to start a new section, but without using the ~~~~ to sign, and saying he has two phone calls in the past hour from 'a person called Don'. Apparently at this stage Kraft does not know Don's second name.

Nine minutes later, 16:10, Eric Kraft joins Murphy's forum and posts, saying "I've received two phone calls in the past hour from Don". At this stage he presumably does know Murphy's second name is 'Murphy', since the forum is called 'donmurphy.net'. Yet at 16:12 he posts on Wikipedia to user:Arcayne, saying he does not know who 'Don' is.

Kraft makes a series of posts to Murphy's forum up until 16:36. At 16:39 Kraft makes a second post to user:Erik, then a post two ANI, then two further posts to user:Erik, taking us to 18:00.

At 18:50 user:Erik then makes a series of edits culminating in his apology to Kraft. To which Kraft immediately replies, using the new user:Erik.Kraft account.

[edit] this edit by the Kraft IP is also odd. Why does he say 'Sorry for not following the reply conventions'. What reply conventions would those be? If you didn't know there were any conventions, you wouldn't say that. If you did, and given that you knew how to write in bold using 3 's, why wouldn't you follow the : reply convention also? Or perhaps Kraft did know all the conventions, but was pretending (in a rather stupid way) not to know?

Posted by: Zoloft

Don Murphy Message Board Statistics
Threads: 30,309, Posts: 1,361,126, Members: 8,309

Oooh. Minions.

It's quite possible he doesn't clean up the banned (spam or otherwise) users, and that number might be inflated a bit, but in order to get 1.3 million posts, you have to have at least 3000 steady users.

No wonder Erik (Kraft or not) is scared.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Sun 25th April 2010, 11:31am)

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:30am)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sun 25th April 2010, 1:45pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:30am)

Now if he is 24 years old and lives in his mother's basement, and spends money on DVD rentals and purchases — now that's something I can believe.

He may even download his movies illegally!

I'm surprised to see nobody seems to have found his name, which I found so easily.

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 2:30pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Sun 25th April 2010, 1:45pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:30am)

Now if he is 24 years old and lives in his mother's basement, and spends money on DVD rentals and purchases — now that's something I can believe.

He may even download his movies illegally!

I'm surprised to see nobody seems to have found his name, which I found so easily.

No you didn't. You're just imagining you can help him by posting here, pretending you know of some other name. If what you were saying were true, then you would not be helping him by saying his 'real name' could easily be found. How stupid do you think I am?

Posted by: Peter Damian

nvm

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:18pm)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Sun 25th April 2010, 5:20am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

Yes, please ... please do. But let's think and discuss this truth a little first.

If you are willing to invest some money on tripping up the Porno-pedia, is there a better way to do so than targeting individuals? (which I admit, has some functional purpose).

Rather than make some lawyer rich ... why not hire a PR and publish some briefing documents, start working the media and public opinion against it.

The Wikipedia is already a joke in the minds of most folks that know it. You'd have all the others following fairly quickly.

If nothing else, you would probably put the squeeze on Jimbo's six figure talking fees fairly quickly as what corporation is going to hire someone in charge of an encyclopedia for kids being fill with sperm dripping vaginas and bondage?

You might even find that doing so acts as a seed capital others would invest into.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:05am)

QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Sun 25th April 2010, 5:20am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

Yes, please ... please do. But let's think and discuss this truth a little first.

If you are willing to invest some money on tripping up the Porno-pedia, is there a better way to do so than targeting individuals? (which I admit, has some functional purpose).

Rather than make some lawyer rich ... why not hire a PR and publish some briefing documents, start working the media and public opinion against it.

The Wikipedia is already a joke in the minds of most folks that know it. You'd have all the others following fairly quickly.

If nothing else, you would probably put the squeeze on Jimbo's six figure talking fees fairly quickly as what corporation is going to hire someone in charge of an encyclopedia for kids being fill with sperm dripping vaginas and bondage?

You might even find that doing so acts as a seed capital others would invest into.

Mr Murphy likes to say that he is going to sue WP, Jimbo, and individual editors, but it has yet to happen. It would be a mistake to assume that Murphy has any agenda other than his own, which is to control his biography on WP. He has been successful so far without having to do more than point his fanboys at anyone he identifies as a target - why do you think he is interested in other people's BLPs?

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:49pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:16pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:18pm)

Yesterday User:Erik added this line to his user page: "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign." That's not quite the same thing, but it's close enough to raise eyebrows. It might even be true, although that would be quite a coincidence.

What's the coincidence, that there were two people named Erik who went to the University of Illinois in 2005?

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:49pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:05am)

QUOTE(Cock-up-over-conspiracy @ Sun 25th April 2010, 5:20am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:09am)

When are you taking some of your hard-earned Transformers money and actually starting that lawsuit you like to threaten people with?

Yes, please ... please do. But let's think and discuss this truth a little first.

If you are willing to invest some money on tripping up the Porno-pedia, is there a better way to do so than targeting individuals? (which I admit, has some functional purpose).

Rather than make some lawyer rich ... why not hire a PR and publish some briefing documents, start working the media and public opinion against it.

The Wikipedia is already a joke in the minds of most folks that know it. You'd have all the others following fairly quickly.

If nothing else, you would probably put the squeeze on Jimbo's six figure talking fees fairly quickly as what corporation is going to hire someone in charge of an encyclopedia for kids being fill with sperm dripping vaginas and bondage?

You might even find that doing so acts as a seed capital others would invest into.

Mr Murphy likes to say that he is going to sue WP, Jimbo, and individual editors, but it has yet to happen. It would be a mistake to assume that Murphy has any agenda other than his own, which is to control his biography on WP. He has been successful so far without having to do more than point his fanboys at anyone he identifies as a target - why do you think he is interested in other people's BLPs?

I'd have to agree that you were right- five years ago when this shit started. The constant barrage of madness, going from Phil Gronowski to present day, has shown me that I live in a community and one that is truly harmed by Wikipedia. The people involved are dangerously unbalanced and unloved who waste their time in service of a man whose jizzy tee shirts sell on Ebay. I am devoted to destroying it by any legal means necessary. But I take the tactical missile approach. I want to destroy the heart not the limb. I am looking for the opportunity.

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 5:00pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:16pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:18pm)

Yesterday User:Erik added this line to his user page: "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign." That's not quite the same thing, but it's close enough to raise eyebrows. It might even be true, although that would be quite a coincidence.

What's the coincidence, that there were two people named Erik who went to the University of Illinois in 2005?

The coincidences are in the odd timeline.

<snip>

The really odd thing, as others have commented, is why user:Erik puts the "am a graduate of University of Illinois" AFTER the first posting by Murphy. And then removes shortly after. Why?

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 5:00pm)

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Sun 25th April 2010, 5:08pm)

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

I appreciate Murphy's brief timeline, which he posted today on his forum thread. The sequence in these lines is what I needed for now:

23/Apr 18:51 Murphy makes first post "find Erik"
23/Apr 19:30 user:Erik puts on his WP user page that "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign."
23/Apr 20:19 GarethFT posts link to CV on Kraft's site (since removed by Kraft)
23/Apr 20:52 JesterJJZ posts Kraft address and phone
24/Apr 10:41 user:Erik says on ANI that "It is not funny to be outed"
24/Apr 12:27 user:Erik removes the "I'm from Chicago" saying "Removed incriminating evidence"

Murphy says he still believes that the two Eriks are the same person. I think they are two people, and User:Erik tried to use the 33-year-old Erik Kraft as a shield for a while, in order to throw off Murphy and friends. This is an issue that will hopefully be resolved soon. If Erik Kraft wants to help resolve it, and he is a separate person, he will at some point be willing to swear under oath that he made certain posts, and did not make other posts. We know a lot about Erik Kraft, age 33. We have his picture and we know his history. He may be out of the country at the moment, but that's a small matter in the long run, because someone named Erik Kraft, age 33, is a known quantity. I think he is innocent and was used by User:Erik to obscure User:Erik's real-life identity. I hope Erik Kraft is willing to help us prove it.

But whether you accept my theory that User:Erik played games and pointed the finger at Erik Kraft, or whether you accept Murphy's theory that they are both the same, the consequence of either theory is that each reflects very poorly on that 24-year-old Wikipedia editor, User:Erik.

Murphy is in a position to get checkuser data from the Foundation on User:Erik. That would be worthwhile and he should pursue it. Even if Murphy doesn't want to sue anyone, this checkuser data will be useful for Wikipedia itself. If User:Erik is even half as devious as it now appears, regardless of whether there are two Eriks or not, then Arbcom won't want him to create a new username and continue on Wikipedia. Because if Arbcom lets him to this, then Murphy can sue the Foundation. The checkuser request should go to Mike Godwin and should be presented by Murphy's lawyer, and it should be formal and well-constructed.

At a minimum, there is very strong evidence of trickery by User:Erik that involved an innocent party, Erik Kraft. At a maximum, we may even be looking at attempted identity theft.

If User:Erik was merely clumsy, instead of devious, then by now I would have expected a lengthy explanation and apology for his clumsiness, posted somewhere for all to see. No, I think he had Murphy in his sites when he posted that picture, and had a pretty good idea that Murphy would try to find him. He voted to "keep" the Murphy bio years ago, and he's been consistent in his position that Murphy is notable; User:Erik is a committed inclusionist. If User:Erik was merely clumsy, by now he'd say so, and admit that he was wrong to bait Murphy. And he would profusely apologize to Erik Kraft, thereby clearing up the matter of whether there are two Eriks.

How many of you expect that User:Erik will do any of this?

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:26pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 6:53pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:26pm)

The rest of the timeline doesn't strike me as odd in the least.

Many oddities. As soon as Kraft is phoned by Murphy, who, according to Kraft, only called himself Don, Kraft goes straight to Wikipedia, and edits user:Erik's page, user:Arcayne's page, and ANI. And then Murphy's website. Yet he claims to have known nothing until Murphy called him half an hour earlier.

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 6:53pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 6:53pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:05pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 6:53pm)

Why does Kraft claim on Wikipedia that he only knows Murphy as 'Don', when he has already posted on Murphy's website (which contains Murphy's surname)?

I have no idea, but the most likely explanation would be that he didn't yet know Murphy's last name.

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:11pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:05pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 6:53pm)

Why does Kraft claim on Wikipedia that he only knows Murphy as 'Don', when he has already posted on Murphy's website (which contains Murphy's surname)?

I have no idea, but the most likely explanation would be that he didn't yet know Murphy's last name.

So he found Murphy's website, which is called 'donmurphy.net', and found the thread with posts by 'Don Murphy, administrator', and failed to realised that the 'Don' who phoned him was the same as this 'Don Murphy'. Fine.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:11pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:11pm)

So he found Murphy's website, which is called 'donmurphy.net', and found the thread with posts by 'Don Murphy, administrator', and failed to realised that the 'Don' who phoned him was the same as this 'Don Murphy'. Fine.

Glad I could be of assistance.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:11pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:05pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 6:53pm)

Why does Kraft claim on Wikipedia that he only knows Murphy as 'Don', when he has already posted on Murphy's website (which contains Murphy's surname)?

I have no idea, but the most likely explanation would be that he didn't yet know Murphy's last name.

So he found Murphy's website, which is called 'donmurphy.net', and found the thread with posts by 'Don Murphy, administrator', and failed to realised that the 'Don' who phoned him was the same as this 'Don Murphy'. Fine.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:17pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:17pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:16pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:11pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:11pm)

So he found Murphy's website, which is called 'donmurphy.net', and found the thread with posts by 'Don Murphy, administrator', and failed to realised that the 'Don' who phoned him was the same as this 'Don Murphy'. Fine.

Glad I could be of assistance.

And later, as I have already said, he posts on Wikipedia apparently not knowing Don's surname.

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:20pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:29pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:32pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:29pm)

To write in bold you type something, highlight it, and click on the "B". To begin a section heading with == you click the big huge A.

And to sign your post you look at the instruction next the save button that says 'sign your post with the four ~~~~"

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:32pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:32pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:34pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:32pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:29pm)

To write in bold you type something, highlight it, and click on the "B". To begin a section heading with == you click the big huge A.

And to sign your post you look at the instruction next the save button that says 'sign your post with the four ~~~~"

Or you click on the signature thingy in the toolbar. Either way, yeah, something you easily could figure out in the time it took Erik to figure it out.

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:32pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:39pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:43pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:32pm)

There is another possibility: user:Erik, the IP and user:Erik.kraft are all the same person. But none of them is the actual Erik Kraft. Only Murphy would know, since he called Erik in London (not Chicago, where Kraft lives).

1) Why do you say that Kraft lives in Chicago?
1a) I thought you didn't have any beliefs.
2) How would any of them know about the phone call? Are you saying the real Kraft posted on donmurphy.net, but not to Wikipedia?

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:47pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:48pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

[nvm]

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:56pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:54pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:48pm)

I am saying that it is possible (and not saying I believe it)

Are you saying that you believe it is possible?

Stop this.

Posted by: Peter Damian

[never argue with Anthony]

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:56pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:56pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:56pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 7:58pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 9:01pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:20pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:17pm)

I called Erik up and said my name was Don and why was he rewriting the article and trying to restart the wars. He denied being Erik and claimed he had not edited WP in three years.

In the second call he claimed he had never edited WP.

It's the same guy.

Right, but what article did you say it was? The 'Don Murphy' article? I don't see how you can speak for 30 minutes and not refer to it as the 'Don Murphy' article.

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:17pm)

He denied being Erik and claimed he had not edited WP in three years.

Ah so Erik Kraft has edited Wikipedia, which explains how he knew how to write in bold, and begin section heading with ==.

But oddly he claims only just to have realised 'how to sign my name' ~~~~

QUOTE

:I'm grateful to you for doing this--and I've gone ahead and created a wikipedia account (erik.kraft) so that it doesn't seem like I'm trying to hide behind anonymity. Which is clearly not possible anyway. Feel free to refer to me as erik.kraft going forward. I'll be following the ANI page and will post further details as I have them. And I even just learned to sign my posts: --> [[User:Erik.kraft|Erik.kraft]] ([[User talk:Erik.kraft|talk]]) 19:06, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Erik&diff=prev&oldid=358061266

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 12:32pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:29pm)

To write in bold you type something, highlight it, and click on the "B". To begin a section heading with == you click the big huge A.

And to sign your post you look at the instruction next the save button that says 'sign your post with the four ~~~~"

QUOTE

But I see it as a much less likely possibility than that someone visited a website and didn't notice the URL.

How did he find the URL? And how, as I said, did he miss the fact that the person he was replying to was called 'Don Murphy, administrator' in very large letters? http://donmurphy.net/board/showthread.php?p=1424848

There is another possibility: user:Erik, the IP and user:Erik.kraft are all the same person. But none of them is the actual Erik Kraft. Only Murphy would know, since he called Erik in London (not Chicago, where Kraft lives).

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:01pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:39pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 9:39pm)

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:39pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 1:44pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 9:39pm)

to clarify THIS I called his number in Chicago but it was a cell forwarded to London- it rang like a UK phone does- and he screamed he was on vacation in London

Yes I surmised that - you rang the number taken from the now dead link on Restless Bee I suppose.

QUOTE

I am not sure where you got the 30 minutes from
I called twice within 30 minutes both times less than 5 minutes long
I refused at any point to mention Murphy

"Don has found my phone number and I spent 30 minutes trying to explain to him that I'm not the person he has a beef with. " http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Arcayne&diff=prev&oldid=358034400

This was at 16:12. If at no point you mentioned your full name, we have to understand how with 20-30 mins the person you rang, who supposedly had no prior knowledge of any of this, discovered Don Murphy's website, and the (very concealed) thread with the outing material, without realising that Don's second name is Murphy (pace Anthony), and then following on with a series of posts in all the right places in Wikipedia. All in the space of minutes.

Posted by: Cock-up-over-conspiracy

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:49pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:41pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:39pm)

to clarify THIS I called his number in Chicago but it was a cell forwarded to London- it rang like a UK phone does- and he screamed he was on vacation in London

Well, there you go. Problem solved!

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 1:58pm)

QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 25th April 2010, 8:41pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:39pm)

to clarify THIS I called his number in Chicago but it was a cell forwarded to London- it rang like a UK phone does- and he screamed he was on vacation in London

Well, there you go. Problem solved!

Same number on the PDF version of the resume? Is that PDF resume the same as the CV?

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 9:00pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 1:58pm)

Same number on the PDF version of the resume? Is that PDF resume the same as the CV?

yes
yes

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 7:20pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 7:20pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:39pm)

Posted by: Somey

One of us might point out that if you do a http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=erik+chicago Restless Bee doesn't appear until the bottom of Page 2 - but that's still fairly high, and more importantly, it's currently the first result in which a full name starting with "Erik" is associated with an internet-related profession (that of "web designer"). So, if I had been calling myself "Erik" on Wikipedia, and I knew that a CheckUser would geolocate me to Chicago, and I needed to quickly find someone's identity to use as an online disguise, that would be the first one to come up.

That doesn't mean they're not the same guy, though. Still, if he really is User:Erik, you'd think the "Restless Bee" guy would show a greater interest in big budget comic-book movies somewhere on the web, even if it's not necessarily on his http://www.restlessbee.com.

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 7:20pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 25th April 2010, 9:13pm)

Posted by: thekohser

Whew, I'm glad I'm not vested in trying to help figure this one out.

I just hope that Don Murphy litigates against some self-righteous, unaccountable Wikipediot(s).

Go for it, Don!

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 25th April 2010, 9:17pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sat 24th April 2010, 7:20pm)

All I can say is if we got the wrong ERIK
then how come the clown just fucking RETIRED

Well, again... putting aside the timing considerations, once he realized his little disguise gambit wasn't working quite as perfectly as he'd expected, he might well have decided it was time to disappear as that account

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 10:24pm)

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 7:18pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sun 25th April 2010, 9:29pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Sun 25th April 2010, 10:24pm)

The birthdate stuff mentioned by Brandt (and which I have confirmed in the user page history), as well as the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Erik&diff=prev&oldid=234206755 when Kraft had already graduated from grad school three years prior, is hard to explain away based solely on an edit made *after* Don announces that he's going to try to out "Erik".

On the hypothesis that he was pretending to be a student, 9 years younger than in real life, he would have to consistently lie.

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

I'm still convinced that Erik Kraft in Chicago (on vacation in London) is not the same as User:Erik.

Even apart from the evidence that they are different people, I also think that Murphy's insistence that they are the same is a poor strategy that will get him nowhere. He should confess that maybe he is wrong, and that he needs checkuser evidence to settle the issue.

You cannot as easily encourage Mike Godwin and the Foundation to cough up checkuser data if you are constantly claiming that Erik Kraft is the guy you want. We have complete dox on Mr. Kraft already. All Godwin has to say is, "Well, Mr. Murphy, you say that you know who he is, so it's not our problem. Request denied."

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sun 25th April 2010, 2:44pm)

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sun 25th April 2010, 2:44pm)

Posted by: ColScott

http://www.bodub.com/search.htm

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:45pm)

Posted by: dogbiscuit

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 11:45pm)

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(Somey @ Sun 25th April 2010, 3:17pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 12:01am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Sun 25th April 2010, 4:45pm)

http://www.bodub.com/search.htm

I don't think he spends a lot of time researching movies based on comic-book heros, and stuffing the results into Wikipedia in the form of many thousands of edits over the last three years.

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 8:39am)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:22pm)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 12:35pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:55am)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 12:35pm)

Well if they are not shouldn't someone make that clear? I am too stupid to find the evidence that they are not the same. And I cannot understand the odd coincidences. Particularly the coincidence that Erik Kraft manages to locate the epicentre of the dispute within minutes of hearing about it from Don Murphy, and without being told Murphy's surname.

The thing only matters to me a puzzle. You know, I like detective stories, mysteries, all that kind of stuff. If there is absolute and irrefrageable proof that they are not identical, then we have to write off all the other stuff as mere difficult-to-explain coincidence. Otherwise not.

I too find it hard to explain the difference in content and interest between Kraft, and user:Erik.

I'm sure it's not stupidity that has prevented you from finding user:Erik's name. I cannot explain the actions of Erik Kraft, but I don't particularly feel the need to try, since I am certain that the person Murphy spoke to is not the same person as user:Erik.

It's completely up to you whether or not you believe me, but I am not attempting to mislead you or Murphy here, just stating what I believe to be true.

Posted by: Lar

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 10:13am)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:13pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:20am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:13pm)

Well here is the thing- all you cultists screamed and cried that an "innocent" was being harassed. Now if Kraft is the wrong guy he is going to have some hefty legal defense bills. Or you could PM me the right guy with back up information and then only the right guy gets the summons. IF you know, and I doubt it, then share. I won't name you. But prove it or stfu.

You don't really think I'm going to help you harass someone, do you? And you don't think that I believe you're launching any kind of legal action against Erik Kraft, do you?

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:34pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:18pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:34pm)

I have never harassed a person in my life. I hope you aren't falsely accusing me of a crime. That in and of itself is actionable.


I didn't expect you to tell me, because you made it up.

I don't believe Erik Kraft is innocent. He's a cultist and a liar. Let God sort you all out!

Aren't you harassing Erik Kraft right now?

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:34pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:37pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:34pm)

Not wishing to defend Murphy's actions (phoning some guy on holiday out of the blue, when he has a hangover) but Kraft has not made things easy. He told Murphy that he had not edited Wikipedia for 3 years, when he clearly edits Wikipedia and when there is demonstrable evidence of his having edited it a few months ago. And then he registers as user:Erik.kraft and pretends to be a completely new user, which he clearly isn't ("I have just learned to sign my name"). So it is very fishy. Why do this if there is nothing whatever to hide?

Because people are crazy.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 8:18am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:34pm)

I have never harassed a person in my life. I hope you aren't falsely accusing me of a crime. That in and of itself is actionable.


I didn't expect you to tell me, because you made it up.

I don't believe Erik Kraft is innocent. He's a cultist and a liar. Let God sort you all out!

Aren't you harassing Erik Kraft right now?

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:22pm)

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:39am)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:50pm)

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:22am)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:55pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:22am)

This thread finally got annoying enough for me to look at User:Erik. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out the real name of this person and confirm that they are not Erik Kraft. I cannot explain why they chose to add it to their userpage in the midst of the dispute, but they do appear to have attended Indiana University, so their intention was not to frame Erik Kraft.

I hope this was a typo.

User:Erik said on April 23, "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign."

There may be a film buff who graduated from Indiana University, but as far as I know, you are the first to claim that Indiana University is associated with User:Erik.

Is this a typo, and you went googling for erik+indiana? Or is there some page where Erik mentions Indiana that I missed? Please, I'd like a URL.

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:54pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:50pm)

This obsession with Erik Kraft, who is obviously not the right guy, is becoming harassment.

Well posting here that user:Erik's real name can be found in 2 minutes is surely harassment of user:Erik, since Murphy's minions will surely find out some time (perhaps more than 2 minutes).

I can see nothing on user:Erik's page or its history or any of his edits that suggest a full real name. I think you and Carbuncle are making this up, sorry.

Posted by: thekohser

I think it's fishy when multiple people say "I know who the REAL User:Erik is in real life, and it was really quick to discover, but neener-neener, I'm not going to tell you." It's not only fishy, it's annoying.

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:03pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:07pm)

I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. SilverserenC 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they're in the process of outing me. Hopefully they won't harass my fiancee... Erik (talk | contribs) 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Erik Kraft here again. Sorry for not following the reply conventions, but I'm not a wikipedia editor and I feel this is rather urgent. Erik, can you clarify what you meant by "process of outing you." Because Don and his people seem to be taking this as evidence that I, Erik Kraft, am the person they are mad at. Don has posted my personal information, including address and phone number, on his forum on his personal site and I'm extremely disturbed. Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Erik/Archive_21#Wikipedia:Administrators.27_noticeboard.2FIncidents.23Legal_threat_regarding_image

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:07pm)

Posted by: Theanima

Fine don't believe me.

And to think, all this comes from someone not liking a pic in their bio.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:29am)

Fine don't believe me.

And to think, all this comes from someone not liking a pic in their bio.

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:29pm)

Fine don't believe me.

And to think, all this comes from someone not liking a pic in their bio.

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:38pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:29am)

Fine don't believe me.

And to think, all this comes from someone not liking a pic in their bio.

No dickless
This comes from having a bio kept at all
This comes from having an illegal website allow children to write about me
This comes from a societal need to see WP destroyed and your type jailed
This all comes from much deeper shit than your feeble mind can grasp.

Stop doing evil and trying to mislead.

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:55pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:22am)

This thread finally got annoying enough for me to look at User:Erik. It took me about 10 minutes to figure out the real name of this person and confirm that they are not Erik Kraft. I cannot explain why they chose to add it to their userpage in the midst of the dispute, but they do appear to have attended Indiana University, so their intention was not to frame Erik Kraft.

I hope this was a typo.

User:Erik said on April 23, "I'm from Chicago, IL and am a graduate of University of Illinois at Urbana–Champaign."

There may be a film buff who graduated from Indiana University, but as far as I know, you are the first to claim that Indiana University is associated with User:Erik.

Is this a typo, and you went googling for erik+indiana? Or is there some page where Erik mentions Indiana that I missed? Please, I'd like a URL.

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:58am)

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:12pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:58am)

With regards to your comments, I was unaware Wikipedia was an "illegal website". Perhaps you could explain what crime(s) it is committing? In nine years, has anyone successfully managed to win a case against it? No?

It isn't illegal, just immoral. Sort of like US slavery in 1858, just after Dred Scott. Its time will come when enough people realize that what goes around, tends to come around.

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

I commend Peter Damian for his research. His discovery of http://fallingandlaughing.com/ (click "author" on top) confirms that Erik Kraft is 33 years old. I had already confirmed this two days ago, and said then that it was solid. Now you can take it to the bank (oops, that expression is sort of outdated these days).

Peter also found http://vimeo.com/user929513. Together with http://news.illinois.edu/news/05/1207bookupdate.html we're now able to count the freckles on Mr. Kraft's face. All we lack now is a big right-profile shot.

I differ with Peter when he says that User:Erik's curious complaints about getting outed suggest that the two Eriks are the same person. I look at this same evidence, and I suspect that User:Erik is trying to throw researchers off the track. I believe that Erik Kraft is innocent, and while User:Erik knows this, he is all too willing to toss Kraft to the wolves because it diverts attention from User:Erik's real identity. Once Kraft began responding online, User:Erik sort of went into a mode where he teamed up with Kraft a bit, along the lines of, "We're both getting slammed by Murphy, poor us!"

I don't mind disagreeing with anyone who is doing good research and sharing what they find. But I get upset when people claim they know this or that in some sort of troll offensive, without sharing any research.

By the way, Peter, this was rather hasty on your part:

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Sat 24th April 2010, 4:25pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Sat 24th April 2010, 11:04pm)

Today he would be 24 years old. Moreover, that same page says that he was born in Chicago, but there isn't any evidence I've seen that he lives in Chicago.

No they are the same age (33). User:Erik was lying about his age, obviously.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:40am)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:29pm)

Fine don't believe me.

And to think, all this comes from someone not liking a pic in their bio.

A pic they claim is one they had taken on purpose.

Which isn't even on the bio any more.

A point I feel I must raise.

ColScott, is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

You've been tossing around that term a lot to anyone here who disputes you.

I just want a yes or no answer to that question.

Is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:58am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:38pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:29am)

Fine don't believe me.

And to think, all this comes from someone not liking a pic in their bio.

No dickless
This comes from having a bio kept at all
This comes from having an illegal website allow children to write about me
This comes from a societal need to see WP destroyed and your type jailed
This all comes from much deeper shit than your feeble mind can grasp.

Stop doing evil and trying to mislead.

Oh, I didn't know you were a poet.

With regards to your comments, I was unaware Wikipedia was an "illegal website". Perhaps you could explain what crime(s) it is committing? In nine years, has anyone successfully managed to win a case against it? No?

I know you don't like your bio, but as a film producer it's ridiculous to say that you should not be included in an encyclopedia. Did you seriously go into the business you're in and not expect anyone to write about you? You're nothing like Daniel Brandt, for example, who apart from a few interviews, keeps out of the limelight.

I wonder what I could possibly be jailed for. For daring to disagree with the one and only Don Murphy?

I think you and I have different definitions of evil. For me, stalking and harassing innocent members of the public comes much closer to that, than "having disagreements on a minor webforum".

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:24pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:40am)

Is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

Yes

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:17pm)

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:17pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 26th April 2010, 10:37am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:24pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:40am)

Is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

Yes

Don, I would appreciate an exemption for those of us who (for the most part) edit Wikipedia in order to draw public shame to its key governors, and to secretly manipulate content at the paid request of our clients.

For heaven's sake, I'm not a Wikipedia cultist, but I've got hundreds of edits and at least a half-dozen accounts.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:40pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:43pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 10:47am)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:40pm)

I am glad we have established that they are not the same person.

We have not established that they are not the same person, nor have we established that they are. To 'establish' p is to give conclusive or demonstrative evidence that p. To simply assert that p without telling how it is you know that p, is not to establish anything. It is simply to assert something.

Nothing is 'established' either way, until conclusive evidence is given.

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:43pm)

[To Greg] Then you are a revolutionary working against the cult from within

And nothing wrong with that.

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:48pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:48pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:53pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:48pm)

why would User Erik retire so quickly and mysteriously? because he was Erik Kraft

Or, the more likely explanation, is that he is afraid of you and your gang finding him, and afraid for his fiancée.

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:58pm)

I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. SilverserenC 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they're in the process of outing me. Hopefully they won't harass my fiancee... Erik (talk | contribs) 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:06pm)

Peter, are you taking this exchange to mean that User:Erik is claiming to live at the address posted on Murphy's site?

QUOTE

I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. SilverserenC 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they're in the process of outing me. Hopefully they won't harass my fiancee... Erik (talk | contribs) 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Consider this: User:Erik knows that Murphy's fanboys are attempting to out him ("in the process of") but have not yet done so (because they have the wrong guy). He's not saying "Yeah, that is my address", he's saying "Yeah, I'm going to get outed".

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:06pm)

QUOTE

I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. SilverserenC 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they're in the process of outing me. Hopefully they won't harass my fiancee... Erik (talk | contribs) 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Consider this: User:Erik knows that Murphy's fanboys are attempting to out him ("in the process of") but have not yet done so (because they have the wrong guy). He's not saying "Yeah, that is my address", he's saying "Yeah, I'm going to get outed".

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:09pm)

Posted by: Moulton

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 12:58pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

And why aren't WMF helping user:Erik in any way? Erik Kraft was in London, editing from a London IP. At exactly the same time, user:Erik was editing, supposedly in Chicago, from presumably a different IP. Without revealing user:Erik's identity, someone from Wikipedia could at least make a statement that the IP's were different.

I suppose they would argue that (from past experience) no one would believe them. Fair enough.

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:53pm)

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:13pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:09pm)

That's how I see it. At no point does he say anything like "Yes, he has my details, that's me."

But he implies it. He uses the word 'process', implying a progression towards successful identifyication. And, despite the fact that, on your hypothesis, a completely innocent person has been targeted, he in no way attempts to correct this.

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:19pm)

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:20pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:53pm)

Or, the more likely explanation, is that he is afraid of you and your gang finding him, and afraid for his fiancée.

Oh, no...not another one who is pretending to be afraid that people who have absolutely nothing to do with the mess are going to be sucked into the maelstrom.

I am confused and I am not hunting about the mothership for clues, so let me be so bold as to ask: if User:Erik is not Erik Kraft, who the hell is he?

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:24pm)

QUOTE(Theanima @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:24pm)

Posted by: Somey

Just trying to catch up here...

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:39am)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:40pm)

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:24pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:40am)

A point I feel I must raise.

ColScott, is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

You've been tossing around that term a lot to anyone here who disputes you.

I just want a yes or no answer to that question.

Is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

Yes

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 12:13pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:24pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:40am)

A point I feel I must raise.

ColScott, is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

You've been tossing around that term a lot to anyone here who disputes you.

I just want a yes or no answer to that question.

Is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

Yes

So. I am looking for sources on a subject. Google shows me a link on Wikipedia. When I go there, I see an article with an easily-corrected error. I create an account, fix the error.
I'm now a cultist?
Hell, you have any number of accounts. You've edited many articles.
You must be a hooded, censer-swinging Grand Leader of their cult.
You're sensitive about what people call you. Try not painting us all with the same brush, please.
Most of us here believe Wikipedia has serious problems.
Some of us work to remove the sort of material you dislike.
Others want Wikipedia gone entirely.
Most of here look for common ground.

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:17pm)

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:17pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 12:13pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:24pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:40am)

A point I feel I must raise.

ColScott, is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

You've been tossing around that term a lot to anyone here who disputes you.

I just want a yes or no answer to that question.

Is anyone who edits Wikipedia and has an account there a cultist?

Yes

So. I am looking for sources on a subject. Google shows me a link on Wikipedia. When I go there, I see an article with an easily-corrected error. I create an account, fix the error.
I'm now a cultist?
Hell, you have any number of accounts. You've edited many articles.
You must be a hooded, censer-swinging Grand Leader of their cult.
You're sensitive about what people call you. Try not painting us all with the same brush, please.
Most of us here believe Wikipedia has serious problems.
Some of us work to remove the sort of material you dislike.
Others want Wikipedia gone entirely.
Most of here look for common ground.

But it cannot BE fixed
It is a stupid idea
100 12 year olds typing does not lead to TRUTH

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:56pm)

No, it leads to the Wiki Cup!

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 8:00pm)

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:00pm)

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th April 2010, 8:08pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:00pm)

So do it!

It's hard to argue with this, but I personally believe Mr. Murphy would be more effective by getting a movie made that properly portrays the evils of Wikipedia in a way kids can understand (i.e., with lots of monsters, explosions, gun battles, Jessica Biel, and CGI in general). Under the current legal climate, a legal challenge against Wikipedia itself (as opposed to specific users) is too likely to fail on Section 230 and other grounds - in order to get legislatures and judges to see the problem(s), we have to influence the culture first.

Admittedly, by that time Wikipedia might have fixed their own problems, though I doubt they'll manage it, personally. Still, there have been a few positive changes in the last year or so, so it's not completely hopeless.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:18pm)

Oh come on. From user:Erik's talk page.

QUOTE

I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. SilverserenC 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they're in the process of outing me. Hopefully they won't harass my fiancee... Erik (talk | contribs) 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Erik Kraft here again. Sorry for not following the reply conventions, but I'm not a wikipedia editor and I feel this is rather urgent. Erik, can you clarify what you meant by "process of outing you." Because Don and his people seem to be taking this as evidence that I, Erik Kraft, am the person they are mad at. Don has posted my personal information, including address and phone number, on his forum on his personal site and I'm extremely disturbed. Thanks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Erik/Archive_21#Wikipedia:Administrators.27_noticeboard.2FIncidents.23Legal_threat_regarding_image

SilverserenC says they hope it's not the real address (i.e. the Chicago). user:Erik replies 'yes, they're in the process of outing me'. I can't read that in any other way except as an admission of outing, and that the address (Kraft's) is correct.

Posted by: Doc glasgow

QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:08pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:00pm)

So do it!

It's hard to argue with this, but I personally believe Mr. Murphy would be more effective by getting a movie made that properly portrays the evils of Wikipedia in a way kids can understand (i.e., with lots of monsters, explosions, gun battles, Jessica Biel, and CGI in general). Under the current legal climate, a legal challenge against Wikipedia itself (as opposed to specific users) is too likely to fail on Section 230 and other grounds - in order to get legislatures and judges to see the problem(s), we have to influence the culture first.

Admittedly, by that time Wikipedia might have fixed their own problems, though I doubt they'll manage it, personally. Still, there have been a few positive changes in the last year or so, so it's not completely hopeless.

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:18pm)

So what you're saying is that Murphy needs to convince James Cameron that Wikipedia = White, US metaphor so that Avatar 2 will be the Pandorans fighting crowdsourcing free culture advocates that emerge from the earth

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Mon 26th April 2010, 8:42pm)

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Mon 26th April 2010, 1:18pm)

So what you're saying is that Murphy needs to convince James Cameron that Wikipedia = White, US metaphor so that Avatar 2 will be the Pandorans fighting crowdsourcing free culture advocates that emerge from the earth

Sure. Would be better than Avatar I which was merely Dances With Wolves with really big blue Sioux.

But if the Academy Award formula works, I suppose it would be crazy not to follow it. I suppose we have one of these every generation. I remember Little Big Man.

Posted by: HRIP7

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:42pm)

Posted by: Cock-up-over-conspiracy

Come on guys ... it is not really the issue. Picking on Wikipedia editors one by one with sniper fire is too expensive and too personal. For everyone that you kill, 10 more accounts have been set up (and at least 3 of those are real people rather than sockpuppets). And the cultists will only be able to accuse you of personally motivated bitterness using it against you.

It is a longer term battle than that. You want to stop people being sucked in, separate it from the funding trusts, inform the media what it really is and give then the language to describe it and the facts to support that ... encourage schools and childsafe software set ups to block it, persistently eroding away at its credibility.

If your "community" is Hollywood ColScott, I am pretty damned sure that there are plenty of people pissed off with Jimbo Wales and if you passed your Colonel's hat around, there would be many others willing to contribute to a war chest to fight it.

BTW, you do not need a lawyer's letter to demand information if you intend to carry out legal proceedings. You have the perfect right to carry out legal proceedings in personal and informing them that you are is sufficient at law. You do not need to be a law enforcement officer either, which is what jerks usually tell people ... but it is not true.

The idea of a documentary is a wonderful idea, visually it could blow Middle-Americas eyes out.

You do a whole section on successful breaching, vandalism and comic editing. POV warriors, show the ridiculous discussions that go on, the anatomy of banning, the sheer ugly dishonest and nastiness of many of them ... do some Michael Moore-style doorstepping ..., mix the child admins with all the amateur hard core porn, and pin Jimbo and Sue down under the lights of an interview.

Find out if that Amsterdam rumour was true ... and go ask the funding foundations what they think is "educational" of RichieX fuck pics or Stan Spanker's red assed schoolgirl photo.

You might even make some money back by selling to the networks (so cut an adult version for the porn channels too). In fact, a whole programme on "How to find and upload Wikipedia fap material" might be a program in itself ... "Wikipedia Porn Review" ... you could do a weekly slot for updates.

Posted by: Theanima

I love the idea. The Truth about Wikipedia. I'd watch it.

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

Today I spoke with Erik Kraft for about 30 minutes. I left my telephone number on his answering machine yesterday and identified myself fully. Now he's back in Chicago. He says that he was tempted to not return my call (he's still getting harassing messages), but then considered my contributions to this thread and dialed my number. He said he did talk to the police. Now he's back in Chicago.

I'm more convinced than before that he's innocent, and I was thoroughly convinced before. Any strange behavior over the last few days (like deleting some of his web pages) was due to the fact that all hell broke loose when "Don" (no last name) called him. He said that Don's attitude was rather in-your-face (I find this believable), and Kraft had no idea who "Don" was at that time.

Initially Kraft had very little familiarity with Wikipedia and how it works, but he dove right in because he needed to find out what the hell was going on. Now he knows more about Wikipedia, but still seems unfamiliar with consulting a recent archive, or with researching edit histories. He has computer smarts, and I'm sure he will learn a lot more about navigating Wikipedia very quickly if he remains interested. At the moment he says he's jet-lagged (14 hours of travel) and is tempted to forget about the whole thing. I encouraged him to stick it out.

He said he'd be willing to talk to the press. I responded that we need to try and identify User:Erik first, because the press doesn't respond well to user names only. I mentioned Essjay and Seigenthaler, and the Essjay thing rang a bell slightly after I described it, but the Seigenthaler story was new for him. He clearly does not know a whole lot about Wikipedia, but he says he's learned a lot in the last few days.

He will probably be deleting more of his web pages. He is amazed by all the information that we dug up on him, and is now having second thoughts about his entire web presence. He said he just deleted his Facebook page.

Someone recommended to him that he contact Mike Godwin, and he said that he did this, and is waiting to hear back. I encouraged to him to pursue this and ask for User:Erik's checkuser data specifically. If he doesn't hear back, I recommended that he pay an attorney to send a formal request to Godwin.

I still feel that Murphy should do the same thing, and stop being so in-your-face, and stop insisting that the two Eriks are the same person. He should get his lawyer to send a formal, competent request to Godwin for User:Erik's checkuser data.

I asked Kraft if he had the sense that User:Erik was using him as a target of convenience, as in some sort of shield, in order to protect his own identity. He hadn't made up his mind on this, and hasn't had the chance to consider it. He mentioned that his girlfriend had been clicking around some, and she commented at one point that it was starting to look like a setup. He did express dismay that User:Erik has now disappeared, which leaves him (Kraft) hanging, unresolved and unsatisfied.
____________

As I see things, Murphy is at a fork in the road. For the first time he has strong standing for a formal request for checkuser data on User:Erik. If this is pursued in a professional manner (no insults, no swearing), Godwin will be on the spot. It's quite possible that pursuing this will not only produce the desired information, thereby giving us more clues for further research, but could also alert the cabal that now Murphy is a problem (i.e., more trouble than he's worth for a semi-notable BLP). This could eventually result in the deletion of his bio. If I had to describe my experience of how I got my page deleted in one sentence, then it would look like this: "Cabal to Wikipediots: Attention! This bio is not worth the trouble. Let it go."

At a minimum, obtaining User:Erik's checkuser data will scare the basement-dwellers, and they won't be messing with Murphy's bio in the future. You cannot out-troll a basement-dwelling Wikipediot teenager — there aren't enough hours in the day. Murphy comes close because he has his own forum and his own collection of teenage counter-trolls, but is this really what he wants? Does Murphy want to play Grand Anti-Wikipedia Counter-troll Master for a few more years, or does he want his bio deleted?

What is this anyway, a fuckin' movie? It's time for Murphy to decide, in my opinion.

Posted by: Doc glasgow

I am quite prepared to take this bio to AFD right now. However, I think the chances of being rid of it are fairly low, and it will attract a fair amount of trolling comments about the subject. I'm unsure whether he'd welcome that.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:34pm)

Posted by: HRIP7

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 10:44pm)

• http://www.michiganliberal.com/diary/15032/grebner-sues-dennis-lennox-two-others-for-wikibased-defamation
• http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/05/office-space-star-yo-wikipedia-im-not-gay/

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:44pm)

Posted by: Doc glasgow

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:12pm)

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:44pm)

I am quite prepared to take this bio to AFD right now. However, I think the chances of being rid of it are fairly low, and it will attract a fair amount of trolling comments about the subject. I'm unsure whether he'd welcome that.

I am not sure what the code words mean. I want it deleted. If you are putting it to a cult vote, they will of course vote to keep it just to annoy me.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:18pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:12pm)

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 2:44pm)

I am quite prepared to take this bio to AFD right now. However, I think the chances of being rid of it are fairly low, and it will attract a fair amount of trolling comments about the subject. I'm unsure whether he'd welcome that.

I am not sure what the code words mean. I want it deleted. If you are putting it to a cult vote, they will of course vote to keep it just to annoy me.

Yes, that would be my fear.

Posted by: HRIP7

QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Mon 26th April 2010, 9:57pm)

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:34pm)

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 26th April 2010, 10:29pm)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:34pm)

He said he'd be willing to talk to the press. I responded that we need to try and identify User:Erik first, because the press doesn't respond well to user names only. I mentioned Essjay and Seigenthaler, and the Essjay thing rang a bell slightly after I described it, but the Seigenthaler story was new for him. He clearly does not know a whole lot about Wikipedia, but he says he's learned a lot in the last few days.

Being in Chicago, he should get in touch with the Tribune. As a local story, it is dynamite. Plus, the newspaper runs a news syndicate that is picked up all over the country.

Actually, if he hits the right editor, this could be a great story that will toss a lot of mud at Wikipedia.

Posted by: Somey

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 10:44pm)

QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:12pm)

There have been

QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Mon 26th April 2010, 3:12pm)

at least two lawsuits against individual Wikipedians.

• http://www.michiganliberal.com/diary/15032/grebner-sues-dennis-lennox-two-others-for-wikibased-defamation
• http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/05/office-space-star-yo-wikipedia-im-not-gay/

I am unable to find any recent coverage of the Grebner suit. As for the Livingston suit, it seems it was dropped after the editor responsible was identified, and the vandalism stopped:

Posted by: GlassBeadGame

QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:00pm)

QUOTE

......In December 2009, a fed-up Livingston finally sued the anonymous poster as a “John Doe” for libel. With court-granted discovery powers, Livingston's strategy was to seek the identity of the anonymous person and stop him. Using a forensic computer expert, Livingston's attorney was indeed able to identify the culprit, the attorney explained in an interview with this writer....

Now, that's just insulting. Livingston's lawyer is taking credit for the work we did? Probably so he can bill Livingston for hiring an "expert" whose sole activity (if he even existed) amounted to reading the relevant WR thread!

Jeez... That's the last time I bother helping out a movie actor, and I'll bet Tarantino's with me on that score, too. And he's a fellow Iowan, to boot!

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 4:11pm)

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:11pm)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:13pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 26th April 2010, 7:06pm)

He's not saying "Yeah, that is my address", he's saying "Yeah, I'm going to get outed".

I did consider it. It is a possibility. But why did he not immediately deny that the address and number were his? Why did he not immediately say 'they've got the wrong guy'?

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:36pm)

Posted by: BelovedFox

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:32pm)

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:36pm)

Honestly though, what's with all the mud-loving? Most people don't pay attention* to Michael Moore because his "documentaries" are full of ridiculous stunts and side-shows. You can make a balanced, well-reasoned piece about Wikipedia and still provoke important questions and dialogue.

Mud sells, and Moore's documentaries bring in tons more money than serious stuff.

I used to write for the Chicago Tribune Syndicate through their Hartford Courant newspaper. If the real Erik needs tips on who to call, just whistle for Horsey.

And by the way...where is Tarantino? We could certainly use him to clarify who User:Erik really is.

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:58pm)

Posted by: Subtle Bee

QUOTE(anthony @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:01pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Subtle Bee @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:05pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:01pm)

The only thing keeping me from saying "no, they aren't the same person", is that I haven't yet heard the reasoning by which EK was suspected in the first place.

Agreed, and given the length of this thread that's rather remarkable. What's more remarkable is how this guy's been put through the wringer here and on other sites, including his name and identifiables, by the same person who wants us to be outraged that it happened to him on WP.

Or am I missing something important?

Posted by: Subtle Bee

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:10pm)

QUOTE(Subtle Bee @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:05pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:01pm)

The only thing keeping me from saying "no, they aren't the same person", is that I haven't yet heard the reasoning by which EK was suspected in the first place.

Agreed, and given the length of this thread that's rather remarkable. What's more remarkable is how this guy's been put through the wringer here and on other sites, including his name and identifiables, by the same person who wants us to be outraged that it happened to him on WP.

Or am I missing something important?

1- f you

2- hey- Subtle Bee... Restless Bee? Wtf?

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Subtle Bee @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:16pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:10pm)

QUOTE(Subtle Bee @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:05pm)

QUOTE(anthony @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:01pm)

The only thing keeping me from saying "no, they aren't the same person", is that I haven't yet heard the reasoning by which EK was suspected in the first place.

Agreed, and given the length of this thread that's rather remarkable. What's more remarkable is how this guy's been put through the wringer here and on other sites, including his name and identifiables, by the same person who wants us to be outraged that it happened to him on WP.

Or am I missing something important?

1- f you

2- hey- Subtle Bee... Restless Bee? Wtf?

1. "f" me? Really? Are you 12?
2. yeah, you got me. You're like Durova on crack. Supergenius.

Posted by: Cirocco

Boredom and drifting in and out of states of consciousness due to combinations of drugs to keep me on this mortal coil for a while longer caused me to look through the revision history of Erik.

I like a good mystery but unfortunately I have no real internet detection ability.

Would the bottom of http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AErik&action=historysubmit&diff=196135047&oldid=193873510 page, with the remark under miscellaneous of "See Erik in his n00b phase. What's wrong with this picture?" that links to http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Alessandro_Dario_Agnoletto&oldid=85315432 page possibly be a clue to Eriks identity? Or have I just wasted 20 minutes?

Posted by: Subtle Bee

QUOTE(ColScott @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:18pm)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(Cirocco @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:35am)

Posted by: CharlotteWebb

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:17pm)

Posted by: tarantino

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:32pm)

Posted by: CharlotteWebb

QUOTE(tarantino @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:35am)

I'm watching from the sidelines

Nobody's mentioned that http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Alientraveller&diff=106942751&oldid=106940136. He probably doesn't take many cell phone calls.

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(tarantino @ Mon 26th April 2010, 8:35pm)

Posted by: CharlotteWebb

He added at least one stub about the http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=102675778&diff=prev:

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(CharlotteWebb @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:03am)

Posted by: Zoloft

ColScott, this is an example of why beating up on individual Wikipedia editors rapidly disintegrates into a farce with you playing the stereotypical mustachioed villain. Once details of their life emerge, they become human.

Quite a choice: Continue to harangue the Erik Kraft who increasingly looks like he deserved none of this treatment (Once this is confirmed, perhaps a nice apology and some chocolates?), or yell at the deaf guy.

Avoid this trap. Go after the big, faceless, irresponsible WMF. Hit them in public perception. Get their URL put into Websense filters all over the place.

Posted by: Cock-up-over-conspiracy

QUOTE(BelovedFox @ Mon 26th April 2010, 6:36pm)

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:32pm)

Mud sells, and Moore's documentaries bring in tons more money than serious stuff.

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:22pm)

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:23am)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Mon 26th April 2010, 11:22pm)

Quite a choice: Continue to harangue the Erik Kraft who increasingly looks like he deserved none of this treatment (Once this is confirmed, perhaps a nice apology and some chocolates?), or yell at the deaf guy.

Big deal. I suspect the real Erik is reading this thread and laughing his ass off (or perhaps, typing "ha ha ha" on his Braille typewriter). He's making a joke out of everyone here.

If Carbuncle knows who he really is, Carbuncle should act--somehow. Outing him publicly will just increase the dramah. I'm getting sick of this anyway.

Posted by: EricBarbour

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:36am)

Posted by: Thule Ravenscroft

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 7:22am)

Posted by: Peter Damian

I'm still puzzled about how Kraft got to the relevant Wikipedia pages so quickly.

15:10 UTC Kraft receives two 5-minute phone calls, 30 mins apart, in London from Murphy. Murphy only identifies himself as 'Don'. However, Murphy did say the problem was with Wikipedia user 'Erik'. Either Kraft assumed the spelling was like his own name, or Murphy explicitly says this.

16:01 Kraft locates user:Erik's Wikipedia page and leaves a message there, using an IP (London). Immediately above this there is the bit that says this

==Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Legal_threat_regarding_image==
I've re-opened the discussion on the grounds that the removal of the image doesn't seem to meet any criteria for removal. Woogee (talk) 20:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

See Talk:Don Murphy#Photo. The licensing is appropriate, but editors did not feel it was necessary to include the image. Feel free to counter them. Erik (talk | contribs) 20:49, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. SilverserenC 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they're in the process of outing me. Hopefully they won't harass my fiancee... Erik (talk | contribs) 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Erik&oldid=357990738

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(Thule Ravenscroft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:41am)

Posted by: Thule Ravenscroft

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:00pm)

QUOTE(Thule Ravenscroft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:41am)

4. Meanwhile, Don has posted his "Find Erik" message on his forum (after User:Erik added the image, but before he expanded the article). Nothing illegal about that, but a minion finds Erik Kraft, based on the name Erik, and the university User:Erik said he went to. This last point may or may not have been a lie by User:Erik to avoid being targeted, but even if that's the case, there's nothing to suggest User:Erik targeted Erik Kraft deliberately. He could have chosen almost any university and the minion would have been able to find an Erik who went there. Try it.

This point of yours strikes me as exceedingly disingenuous. User:Erik posted his university affiliation 39 minutes after the call went out to "Find Erik." User:Erik wanted someone named Erik, who is a UI graduate living in Chicago, to be found as soon as he noticed that Murphy had started a "Find Erik" thread. In more than three years of editing Wikipedia, this is the first mention of User:Erik's university affiliation on his user page.... If it was a lie, then User:Erik's motives are extremely suspicious.

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(Thule Ravenscroft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:41am)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 7:22am)

ColScott, this is an example of why beating up on individual Wikipedia editors rapidly disintegrates into a farce with you playing the stereotypical mustachioed villain. Once details of their life emerge, they become human.

Quite a choice: Continue to harangue the Erik Kraft who increasingly looks like he deserved none of this treatment (Once this is confirmed, perhaps a nice apology and some chocolates?), or yell at the deaf guy.

Avoid this trap. Go after the big, faceless, irresponsible WMF. Hit them in public perception. Get their URL put into Websense filters all over the place.

Yeah, I've got to agree with Zoloft here. It's difficult to pin down the exact order of events, as they spanned multiple pages, but against my better judgment I spent enough time working out that, apart from a couple of missteps that can be explained through sheer panic, User:Erik didn't do anything to warrant this level of attention:

1. Erik, who has recently added a few pictures of filmmakers to Wikipedia articles, finds an image of Don, which has already been uploaded at Commons with an, at that point, seemingly-valid copyright tag.
2. He crops it to show just Don, adds it to the article. A few people complain, including SharkJumper (Don?) who makes a legal threat. A by-the-book guy, Erik reports Sharkjumper, who is subsequently blocked. In the meantime, discussion takes place on the Don Murphy article talk page about the suitability of the image. Erik agrees that it should be removed, and takes it out himself.
3. Based on a digression at AN/I about Murphy's notability, User:Erik makes a colossal mistake and decides to build up the article. As far as I can see, he ignored any disparaging stuff to include only neutral commentary (though I completely understand that Don doesn't even want that in there).
4. Meanwhile, Don has posted his "Find Erik" message on his forum (after User:Erik added the image, but before he expanded the article). Nothing illegal about that, but a minion finds Erik Kraft, based on the name Erik, and the university User:Erik said he went to. This last point may or may not have been a lie by User:Erik to avoid being targeted, but even if that's the case, there's nothing to suggest User:Erik targeted Erik Kraft deliberately. He could have chosen almost any university and the minion would have been able to find an Erik who went there. Try it.
5. User:Erik doesn't outright confirm or deny anything about his identity; an understandable misstep, in hindsight. Born of panic, especially if he's aware of what happened to HighInBC.
6. User:Erik does the only thing open to him: thinks "fuck it" and retires. I don't think he'll be coming back.

So I just don't get it. Step 2 should have been an end to the matter. The initial attempt to find him, any proposed legal action … it's a massive overreaction. User:Erik's contributions show he hasn't got a vendetta against Don. He voted "keep" in the original AfD, but so did a lot of people. So did I. Yet if an AfD went ahead today, I'd put a reasonably strong argument forward for deletion. The image thing was resolved almost before Don got involved. All User:Erik seems to have done "wrong" is to not tell anyone who he is. Again, the HighInBC thing tells me that was a wise choice.

I'm totally on board with legitimate complaints to be made against Wikipedia, especially when it comes to BLPs, and editors so ideologically warped that they'll even defend an admitted pedophile's right to openly contribute. User:Erik was not one of these guys; he didn't get involved in controversial issues, he stuck to improving Wikipedia's coverage of films, he refused the admin bit on several occasions. Even if there were a basis for legal action (there isn't, as the minion found Erik Kraft; User:Erik was under no legal obligation to confirm or deny his identity), surely there are bigger fish to fry?

Posted by: Moulton

Notwithstanding the competing theories about identities, motivations, ethical lapses, and blunders, it occurs to me that this story reminds us that collateral damage is an ever-present feature of the World of Wiki Warcraft. Unlike most MMPORGs, the one hosted by WMF can deal significant damage to people who aren't even signed up and logged in to play their silly games.

Posted by: Thule Ravenscroft

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:40pm)

Translation —

You're A Mean One, Colonel Scott.

You And Your Whole Seek-Writ Society.

Jon

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(Thule Ravenscroft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 7:43am)

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:40pm)

Translation —

You're A Mean One, Colonel Scott.

You And Your Whole Seek-Writ Society.

Jon

If only I'd remembered his name was Thurl, not Thule.

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:20am)

QUOTE(CharlotteWebb @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:03am)

I realize it doesn't prove anything as a deaf person could have copied that information from somewhere else, or through the help of a friend's ears. I haven't seen the film so I don't even know whether it's accurate, only that I wouldn't post something like that without at least listening to a sample...

He probably got it from a fan-review site (he seems to like those a lot), but it's also possible that he's only partially deaf (i.e., hard-of-hearing). Some people with partial hearing loss can hear music, movies, TV etc. reasonably well if they put on headphones and really crank the volume, whereas if you're trying to have a conversation with them and they're not wearing some heavy amplification gear, they can't hear much at all.

I obviously have no idea one way or the other, but in theory that could conceivably explain why he likes movies so much...?

Posted by: Thule Ravenscroft

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:04pm)

Posted by: NotARepublican55

QUOTE(HRIP7 @ Mon 26th April 2010, 5:12pm)

QUOTE(Doc glasgow @ Mon 26th April 2010, 10:44pm)

A lawsuit against an individual wikipedian, or an admin, would also have a chilling effect. Indeed even an unsuccessful one would make a lot of Wikipedians nervous. Do I really want a hobby that could get me having to defend myself in court?

There have been at least two lawsuits against individual Wikipedians.

• http://www.michiganliberal.com/diary/15032/grebner-sues-dennis-lennox-two-others-for-wikibased-defamation
• http://www.tmz.com/2009/12/05/office-space-star-yo-wikipedia-im-not-gay/

I am unable to find any recent coverage of the Grebner suit. As for the Livingston suit, it seems it was dropped after the editor responsible was identified, and the vandalism stopped:

QUOTE

... the very nature of Wikipedia allows libelers to repeatedly repost their libel even after it has been corrected. For example, last year actor Ron Livingston discovered that a malicious Wikipedia editor had posted that the star of the TV hit Office Space was gay. Every time the actor's representatives corrected the falsehood, the libeler reposted it—time and time again. In December 2009, a fed-up Livingston finally sued the anonymous poster as a “John Doe” for libel. With court-granted discovery powers, Livingston's strategy was to seek the identity of the anonymous person and stop him. Using a forensic computer expert, Livingston's attorney was indeed able to identify the culprit, the attorney explained in an interview with this writer. The conduct stopped and the suit was recently dropped. Although it was widely reported that Livingston sued Wikipedia itself, that information was incorrect. In fact, the actor only sued a “John Doe,” that is, the individual poster. Livingston's legal strategy brings out an important feature of Wikipedia's seeming invincibility to lawsuits [...]

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2010/04/12/472903.html

Is anyone familiar with the author of this article?

QUOTE

Edwin Black is the award-winnng author of "Internal Combustion,"The Plan - How to Rescue Society the Day Before the Oil Stops," "IBM and the Holocaust," and the publisher of TheCuttingEdgeNews.com. Edwin is also a frequent contributor to The Auto Channel.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(Somey @ Tue 27th April 2010, 6:20am)

Posted by: Moulton

This kerfuffle might have been avoided if the bio had been classified as a BFP* instead of a BLP.

* BFP == Biographies of Fighting Persons.

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 27th April 2010, 11:00am)

QUOTE(Thule Ravenscroft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:41am)

4. Meanwhile, Don has posted his "Find Erik" message on his forum (after User:Erik added the image, but before he expanded the article). Nothing illegal about that, but a minion finds Erik Kraft, based on the name Erik, and the university User:Erik said he went to. This last point may or may not have been a lie by User:Erik to avoid being targeted, but even if that's the case, there's nothing to suggest User:Erik targeted Erik Kraft deliberately. He could have chosen almost any university and the minion would have been able to find an Erik who went there. Try it.

This point of yours strikes me as exceedingly disingenuous. User:Erik posted his university affiliation 39 minutes after the call went out to "Find Erik." User:Erik wanted someone named Erik, who is a UI graduate living in Chicago, to be found as soon as he noticed that Murphy had started a "Find Erik" thread. In more than three years of editing Wikipedia, this is the first mention of User:Erik's university affiliation on his user page.

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 27th April 2010, 11:00am)

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 27th April 2010, 11:00am)

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:47am)

Posted by: CharlotteWebb

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:04pm)

QUOTE(Ottava @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:22pm)

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Ottava @ Tue 27th April 2010, 6:22am)

Posted by: Zoloft

I note that since it became really obvious that Don Murphy verbally attacked and intimidated the wrong person (about the time Tarantino pointed out that User:Erik identifies as deaf), he's gotten real quiet.

No apology for the fellow on vacation you rousted, eh?

Classy.

Posted by: Ottava

QUOTE(CharlotteWebb @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:41pm)

I thought usage of the word "deaf" to refer to those merely "hearing impaired" (and for whom a hearing aid does some good) was sub-standard if not politically incorrect hyperbole. How common is it?

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:24am)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:30pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:24am)

I note that since it became really obvious that Don Murphy verbally attacked and intimidated the wrong person (about the time Tarantino pointed out that User:Erik identifies as deaf), he's gotten real quiet.

No apology for the fellow on vacation you rousted, eh?

Classy.

Zoloft- eat me

I called a guy who WAS a wikipedia editor (not innocent) and asked him why he was doing this shit.
He acted guilty right from the beginning.
I legally posted his legally obtained address.
He then started leaving his bizarre trail on teh nets.

Never apologize in a war. He wasn't even wounded.

I wasn't silent. I have things to do, unlike you.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:33am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:30pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:24am)

I note that since it became really obvious that Don Murphy verbally attacked and intimidated the wrong person (about the time Tarantino pointed out that User:Erik identifies as deaf), he's gotten real quiet.

No apology for the fellow on vacation you rousted, eh?

Classy.

Zoloft- eat me

I called a guy who WAS a wikipedia editor (not innocent) and asked him why he was doing this shit.
He acted guilty right from the beginning.
I legally posted his legally obtained address.
He then started leaving his bizarre trail on teh nets.

Never apologize in a war. He wasn't even wounded.

I wasn't silent. I have things to do, unlike you.

Erik Kraft never had anything to do with your bio. Don't you think you owe him at least an apology for the false accusations you made and the harassment he suffered?

Posted by: Theanima

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:35pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:33am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:30pm)

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:24am)

I note that since it became really obvious that Don Murphy verbally attacked and intimidated the wrong person (about the time Tarantino pointed out that User:Erik identifies as deaf), he's gotten real quiet.

No apology for the fellow on vacation you rousted, eh?

Classy.

Zoloft- eat me

I called a guy who WAS a wikipedia editor (not innocent) and asked him why he was doing this shit.
He acted guilty right from the beginning.
I legally posted his legally obtained address.
He then started leaving his bizarre trail on teh nets.

Never apologize in a war. He wasn't even wounded.

I wasn't silent. I have things to do, unlike you.

Erik Kraft never had anything to do with your bio. Don't you think you owe him at least an apology for the false accusations you made and the harassment he suffered?

why did he suffer this? because you and your cult illegally maintain a biography on me that retarded 7 year olds can edit. Where is my apology?

Posted by: carbuncle

Ok, are we all agreed that User:Erik and Erik Kraft are two entirely different people?

Assuming I'm telling the truth about knowing who User:Erik is, I believe that he did not intentionally try to misdirect Murphy's fanboys to someone else (i.e. Kraft). Both attended the University of Illinois. I don't know why User:Erik added that info to his page when he did.

Does User:Erik owe Kraft an apology? I believe that User:Erik should have realised that his weak responses were not helping Kraft prove that he (Kraft) was not involved in editing Murphy's BLP. At this point, however, there's not much he can do since some helpful admin fully protected his talk page so he can't make any statement there. Thanks again, WP!

Does Don Murphy owe Kraft an apology? Absolutely! At the very least, he should admit his mistake and call off his sycophants. Have you done that yet, ColScott?

Posted by: Moulton

See, it's all about blame, scapegoating, and http://newscafe.ansci.usu.edu/~bkort/DueteronomicDescant.html.

Posted by: carbuncle

I guess I hadn't noticed this before:

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:03am)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:35pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:21am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:35pm)

He was NEVER harassed. He was questioned. Why did he "suffer" this? because you and your cult illegally maintain a biography on me that retarded 7 year olds can edit. Where is my apology?

Here's your apology: Don Murphy, while I think you generally behave like an overgrown toddler with regard to this, I believe you should be able to opt out of having a biography on Wikipedia. I'm sorry.

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

Nonetheless, I suspect Erik will return. Even he http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Films&diff=prev&oldid=358100294

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:25pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:21am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:35pm)

He was NEVER harassed. He was questioned. Why did he "suffer" this? because you and your cult illegally maintain a biography on me that retarded 7 year olds can edit. Where is my apology?

Here's your apology: Don Murphy, while I think you generally behave like an overgrown toddler with regard to this, I believe you should be able to opt out of having a biography on Wikipedia. I'm sorry.

But see here is the punchline
If your cult never behaved illegally
NEVER kept a bio accusing me of child rape
Then you never heard of me
No one had to be outed
I go on and live my life
I am not behaving like a toddler- I am behaving like a grown man who has had you people shit on my lawn one too many times- I am shitting on yours.


In fact, I would submit that you and yours have behaved like kids. Throwing rocks and then more rocks and now that the bazooka is coming you cry "Meanie". Except the meanie wasn't bothering you or even playing with you before you started your shit

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Zoloft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:43am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:25pm)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:21am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:35pm)

He was NEVER harassed. He was questioned. Why did he "suffer" this? because you and your cult illegally maintain a biography on me that retarded 7 year olds can edit. Where is my apology?

Here's your apology: Don Murphy, while I think you generally behave like an overgrown toddler with regard to this, I believe you should be able to opt out of having a biography on Wikipedia. I'm sorry.

But see here is the punchline
If your cult never behaved illegally
NEVER kept a bio accusing me of child rape
Then you never heard of me
No one had to be outed
I go on and live my life
I am not behaving like a toddler- I am behaving like a grown man who has had you people shit on my lawn one too many times- I am shitting on yours.


In fact, I would submit that you and yours have behaved like kids. Throwing rocks and then more rocks and now that the bazooka is coming you cry "Meanie". Except the meanie wasn't bothering you or even playing with you before you started your shit

Why the hell did you get involved in films at all if you can't learn to delegate this stuff to your PR staff?
Jeebus.
I bumped into you once at Comic-Con and you didn't seem to be this clueless.

I have zero influence at Wikipedia, but as someone who fixes the odd misplaced comma or BLP violation, I am profoundly sorry that you have a bio there.

And there's my apology as well.

Posted by: Moulton

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:25pm)

Posted by: carbuncle

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:25pm)

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Moulton @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:46am)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:25pm)

I am behaving like a grown man who has had you people shit on my lawn one too many times- I am shitting on yours.

See, that's where you went wrong. You'd have gotten more mileage out of staging a rock concert on their lawn, featuring truly atrocious song parodies.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:47am)

I'm still puzzled about how Kraft got to the relevant Wikipedia pages so quickly.

15:10 UTC Kraft receives two 5-minute phone calls, 30 mins apart, in London from Murphy. Murphy only identifies himself as 'Don'. However, Murphy did say the problem was with Wikipedia user 'Erik'. Either Kraft assumed the spelling was like his own name, or Murphy explicitly says this.

16:01 Kraft locates user:Erik's Wikipedia page and leaves a message there, using an IP (London). Immediately above this there is the bit that says this

QUOTE

==Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#Legal_threat_regarding_image==
I've re-opened the discussion on the grounds that the removal of the image doesn't seem to meet any criteria for removal. Woogee (talk) 20:47, 23 April 2010 (UTC)

See Talk:Don Murphy#Photo. The licensing is appropriate, but editors did not feel it was necessary to include the image. Feel free to counter them. Erik (talk | contribs) 20:49, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
I hope that's not your real address that they pulled up on the website. SilverserenC 07:11, 24 April 2010 (UTC)

Yeah, they're in the process of outing me. Hopefully they won't harass my fiancee... Erik (talk | contribs) 10:12, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Erik&oldid=357990738

This does explain how Kraft got Murphy's full name. It also includes a link to the ANI page, which would, at that time, have taken him here http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&oldid=358032130#User:SharkJumper:_Legal_threat_regarding_image .

16:10. Nine minutes later, Kraft has found the thread on Murphy's forum which contained his name, number and address, and says he has received two calls in the last hour from 'Don'. I am still puzzled how he found this so quickly. There is no link to it on Erik's talk page, nor on ANI, although the discussion does refer to its existence. The link itself was not posted until 18:26. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=358054981&oldid=358054017

The thread is not easy to find. Even if you get to Murphy's website, all you get is this http://donmurphy.net/, and the thread itself is buried in the 'movies' section.

I still don't understand how Kraft got there so fast.

16:10 Then Kraft posts to Arcayne's talk page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/95.177.43.18 saying "I'm writing because you seem to be involved in a feud with a wikipedia user named Erik. Various people seem to be mad at Erik; I've received two extremely confusing phone calls from a Don in the past hour. "

I don't understand why he should have located Arcayne of all people. Yes, Erik was involved in an edit war with Arcayne, but how did Kraft know this? There is only one section on user:Erik's talk page that involves Arcayne. Did he consult edit histories? Yet he told Brandt yesterday (26 April) that he is "unfamiliar with consulting a recent archive, or with researching edit histories".

So I am still mystified. How did Kraft, 30 minutes after the last call from someone called 'Don', find all the right pages on Wikipedia, and Murphy's forum?

All the other evidence seems to point to Kraft and user:Erik being different people, I agree. But is there some relationship between them?

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:03pm)

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:49pm)

Posted by: Eva Destruction

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:51pm)

1. "Are you User Erik on Wikipedia?"
2. "I have nothing to do with Wikipedia"
3. "Yes you do"
4. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Eric+Kraft+Wikipedia&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=57abaa8a72d05cbd
5. User:Erik on Wikipedia, complete with links to ANI etc is the first hit; Don's forum is the fourth hit.
   Not rocket science.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:30pm)

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:30pm)

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:57am)

QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:49pm)

My cult rides horses while naked - it has nothing to do with your biography.

I don't mind good-looking naked ladies riding on my back -- that's a cult I can get used to!

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:58pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:51pm)

I repeat the whole thing. None of the posts above address this. How did Kraft, 30 minutes after the last call from someone called 'Don', find all the right pages on Wikipedia, and Murphy's forum?

1. "Are you User Erik on Wikipedia?"
2. "I have nothing to do with Wikipedia"
3. "Yes you do"
4. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Eric+Kraft+Wikipedia&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=57abaa8a72d05cbd
5. User:Erik on Wikipedia, complete with links to ANI etc is the first hit; Don's forum is the fourth hit.
   Not rocket science.

Posted by: Apathetic

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:11pm)

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:58pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:51pm)

I repeat the whole thing. None of the posts above address this. How did Kraft, 30 minutes after the last call from someone called 'Don', find all the right pages on Wikipedia, and Murphy's forum?

1. "Are you User Erik on Wikipedia?"
2. "I have nothing to do with Wikipedia"
3. "Yes you do"
4. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Eric+Kraft+Wikipedia&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=57abaa8a72d05cbd
5. User:Erik on Wikipedia, complete with links to ANI etc is the first hit; Don's forum is the fourth hit.
   Not rocket science.

The forum is, but I have already explained how hard it is to find that thread without a link.

How do you find the relevant thread from the crap you get there? You are phoned up by some madman. You have a hangover. He says he is called 'Don'. How do you find the right thread on the right website.

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 10:24am)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:11pm)

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:58pm)

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:51pm)

I repeat the whole thing. None of the posts above address this. How did Kraft, 30 minutes after the last call from someone called 'Don', find all the right pages on Wikipedia, and Murphy's forum?

1. "Are you User Erik on Wikipedia?"
2. "I have nothing to do with Wikipedia"
3. "Yes you do"
4. http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=Eric+Kraft+Wikipedia&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=57abaa8a72d05cbd
5. User:Erik on Wikipedia, complete with links to ANI etc is the first hit; Don's forum is the fourth hit.
   Not rocket science.

The forum is, but I have already explained how hard it is to find that thread without a link.

How do you find the relevant thread from the crap you get there? You are phoned up by some madman. You have a hangover. He says he is called 'Don'. How do you find the right thread on the right website.

What are you on about? Google "User erik wikipedia" links directly to http://www.donmurphy.net/board/showthread.php?p=1424901 in the fourth result.

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 6:24pm)

Posted by: Apathetic

QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:31pm)

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 6:24pm)

What are you on about? Google "User erik wikipedia" links directly to http://www.donmurphy.net/board/showthread.php?p=1424901 in the fourth result.

Thank you for helping me with that. I didn't succeed. Was that the same result on Saturday 24th?

Posted by: Moulton

On teh intarwebs, research is our most important persiflage.

Posted by: A Horse With No Name

So here is the next dumb question: why was Erik concerned about his fiancee?

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(Eva Destruction @ Tue 27th April 2010, 12:58pm)

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:24pm)

Posted by: Eva Destruction

Oops, that's my mistake; I amended it to work on the information he would have known at the time. It works just as well on http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=User+Erik+Wikipedia&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=57abaa8a72d05cbd; User:Erik is the first result, and Don's forum thread is fourth. That "Erik Moller" thread is third (at least, on what it's showing me).

Posted by: thekohser

I would like to know how it is somehow the "same thing" to search Google for "erik kraft wikipedia" as it is for "user erik wikipedia".

For example, here is a search for "http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=jimmy+wales+founder+wikipedia+%22pompous+scumbag%22". Amazing that it only returns ONE RESULT!

"Oops", indeed, Eva.

Posted by: Apathetic

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:13pm)

Posted by: thekohser

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:17pm)

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:13pm)

Maybe you should look at the deceptive/comic/mistaken ACTUAL search term from Eva's link.

I typed it myself. "User erik wikipedia" ( http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=user+erik+wikipedia&meta=&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai= )

The 4th link (if you don't count the "sublinks") is most definitely:

Wikipedia Wars 2010- ERIK - Don Murphy Message Board

Now, Erik Kraft (being crafty) might have even added the word "don" -- and if he was a real smart cookie, maybe even "photo"!

Posted by: Apathetic

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:22pm)

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:22pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 6:37pm)

QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 27th April 2010, 2:22pm)

Posted by: Apathetic

I understand Daniel Brandt spoke with Erik Kraft on the phone. Did he confirm that he is [[User:Erik.kraft]]?

Posted by: Peter Damian

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:27pm)

Posted by: Somey

Mr. Kraft has just registered an account here on WR, validating the normal way with an e-mail address from his own domain (sorry about the delay there), so hopefully we can clear up some of these lingering coinkydink issues. At least I hope that's what they are...

And btw, Mr. Ravenscroft, we could change your member-name if you like - I was wondering about that myself! It's not such a significant change that anyone would mistake you for someone else in quoted text, so I don't see any reason not to just take care of that now.

Posted by: erik.kraft

Oh, hey everybody. It's Erik Kraft. Since a very helpful person alerted me to the existence of this thread yesterday morning, I've been watching it with alternating horror and amusement. Do you have any idea what it's like to have a bunch of complete strangers intensely scrutinizing every last detail they can dig up about you on the web? It's quite something, and I hope none of you ever have to go through it.

It's been tempting to weigh in, but I've been confident that the smart people here would eventually make their case against the handful of creeps running the witch trial. I'm glad everyone (even Don) seems to have pieced things together, with the exception of good ol' Peter Damian. Peter! I'm glad you found my blog and are enjoying it so much! I'm astonished at how hard it has been for you to understand that other people besides you might have some rudimentary knowledge of how to find things on the internet. As many others have pointed out, Murphy didn't give me much to go on, but it wasn't hard to piece things together once I knew he was after User:Erik.

And to everyone who, early on, was in disbelief that someone who claimed not to be a wikipedia editor could get up to speed so quickly: you'd be amazed at how quickly your brain can work when you are worried sick about the safety of your loved ones and neighbors when someone is making anonymous threats against you, and when someone has posted your address in a forum where a thug has ordered his followers to find you, and when you are across the ocean from that address.

As far as the Exhibit A that Murphy was so proud of--my conflicting statements over whether or not I was a wikipedia editor--it's pretty simple. Prior to Saturday, I never had a wikipedia account; I'd made maybe 3 anonymous edits in my entire life. If you were reading my blog posts carefully, you'd see that the Phil Collins edit was a completely absurd joke. I'm confessing it here: I'm guilty of making an anonymous joke-edit to the wikipedia article on the Philip Collins masterwork "In the Air Tonight." Nice detective work, Peter Damian!

Thanks to everyone who's defended me and argued the case for reason against a deluded bully. Thanks especially to Daniel Brandt for taking the time to hear me out. Also, to the guy who noticed that I love The Fall, and that there couldn't be more aesthetic distance between Mark E. Smith and a hack like Don Murphy and his work: THANK YOU.

To Don, I wanted to let you know that you're welcome to call me and apologize. As you proved on Saturday, you already have my phone number. Interestingly, I don't have yours, since you called from blocked numbers both times. I also asked you for your number, and you wouldn't give it to me. You also wouldn't tell me your last name. As you've pointed out again and again, this is all legal. You're probably right. Lucky for you, it's not illegal to be a raging asshole and an impenetrable imbecile.

Lastly, Don, when you call to apologize, perhaps you'd like to hear a great idea I have for your next Hollywood blockbuster! It's a 21st century retelling of Kafka's The Trial, in which the protagonist, Erik K, has to answer to utterly mystifying and illogical charges issued by an implacable and sinister force. I think we could really have a hit on our hands!

Sincerely,

Erik Kraft
Chicago, Illinois

Posted by: Moulton

Online Sociopathy and Kafkaesque Nightmares

Mr. Kraft will be comforted to know that several of us have used those very terms to characterize our own experiences at the hands of those pesky and villainous Wikipedians.

Posted by: erik.kraft

Right, and one more thing. I composed most of the above a couple hours ago; as Somey mentioned, there's been some delay in activating my account. Peter Damian, you're clearly unhealthily obsessed with this, and clearly operating from behind a pseudonym. I, on the other hand, have had all of my personal contact information made very public these past few days. Here's my offer to you. If you're willing to call me from a verifiable phone number that I can call you back at, or if you're willing to write me from an email address that is attached to a real human being, feel free. I'll do my best to explain the same things that about 10 people here have already explained to you. Otherwise, please fuck off.

Sincerely yours,

Erik Kraft
Chicago, Illinois

Posted by: Apathetic

Welcome to the review!

Posted by: victim of censorship

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:20pm)

Posted by: Zoloft

QUOTE(victim of censorship @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:27pm)

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:20pm)

Right, and one more thing. I composed most of the above a couple hours ago; as Somey mentioned, there's been some delay in activating my account. Peter Damian, you're clearly unhealthily obsessed with this, and clearly operating from behind a pseudonym. I, on the other hand, have had all of my personal contact information made very public these past few days. Here's my offer to you. If you're willing to call me from a verifiable phone number that I can call you back at, or if you're willing to write me from an email address that is attached to a real human being, feel free. I'll do my best to explain the same things that about 10 people here have already explained to you. Otherwise, please fuck off.

Sincerely yours,

Erik Kraft
Chicago, Illinois

Most on Wikipedia are near criminal in the way they behave with out the rule of law or respect of others out side the cult of jimbo wales.

I would suggest you leave Wikipedia and not return due to risks it's places on you now. Wikipedia is ripe for a massive law suit and there will be collateral damage as a result.

Wikipedia has nothing positive to offer, considering the fact it has no regulation, and it's a thugocrisy.


You should leave Wikipedia and never look back.

Posted by: Daniel Brandt

QUOTE(Apathetic @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:27pm)

Posted by: GlassBeadGame

Just by way of background for Mr. Kraft: Mr. Murphy has had some involvement in the production of Hollywood films relating to topics of interest to pre-adolescents, most notably "Transformers." These films seem to have been disappointments to certain viewers, both chronologically and developmentally stuck in this stage of development. Because the films disappointed their high sense of fanboy devotion and obsession with the topic his article on Wikipedia has been a target for their own version of Revenge of the Nerds. He has plainly been maligned and defamed in his article. Mr. Murphy has complained and demanded relief in own unique style. This has resulted in the Wikipedians joining in the fray to further attack Mr. Murphy in Revenge of the Nerds II.

I do not know if you are truly a stranger to this dispute or not. If you are I thought you might want to know.

Posted by: Subtle Bee

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:25am)

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:15pm)

Posted by: Peter Damian

Welcome to the review.

QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Tue 27th April 2010, 9:40pm)

Posted by: Somey

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 3:15pm)

Posted by: Cock-up-over-conspiracy

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:15pm)

QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Tue 27th April 2010, 8:51pm)

"He's banned ... He's banned ... he is a bad person ... help me help me!!!"

Posted by: ColScott

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:15pm)

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 1:20pm)

Posted by: Jon Awbrey

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:15pm)

Posted by: GlassBeadGame

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Tue 27th April 2010, 5:32pm)

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:15pm)

Do you have any idea what it's like to have a bunch of complete strangers intensely scrutinizing every last detail they can dig up about you on the web? It's quite something, and I hope none of you ever have to go through it.

Well, Duh …

Jon

Posted by: anthony

QUOTE(ColScott @ Tue 27th April 2010, 11:25pm)

Posted by: Milton Roe

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:32pm)

QUOTE(erik.kraft @ Tue 27th April 2010, 4:15pm)

Do you have any idea what it's like to have a bunch of complete strangers intensely scrutinizing every last detail they can dig up about you on the web? It's quite something, and I hope none of you ever have to go through it.

Well, Duh …

Jon