Commons and Pro-Pedophilia Options

[Ottava]

Sue,

On Commons, multiple admin are claiming that pedophiles do nothing wrong and should be allowed to edit. Kameraad Pjotr, one such admin, unblocked a pedophile (who admitted to being a pedophile before and edited multiple pages on multiple projects dealing with pedophilia in a pro-pedophilia manner). Many of his supporters claim that such is acceptable.

You have stated that we have a zero tolerance for pedophiles. In my work with Wikiversity, we determined that since we work with schools (both College and High Schools), we cannot allow pedophiles or the promotion of such material to interfere with us, as it would ruin our reputation. Commons is a project that connects to all others, and being linked to it is highly damaging to our objectives of having a safe and educational environment.

Can you and the WMF please take the appropriate measures to ensure that pedophiles are stopped and that admin who out of process unblock them and saying that "pedophiles do nothing wrong" no longer have the authority and ability to continue in this manner? Otherwise, Wikiversity will take yet another hit, as well as the other projects, if we are linked to such blatantly and unacceptable pro-pedophilia advocacy.

- Ottava Rima (talk) 19:19, 7 July 2010 (UTC)




The link. I'm sick of those people.

[Moulton]

I'm sick of those people.

So you're sick too?

Wow.

Whole lotta sickness going 'round.

[GlassBeadGame]

Sue,

On Commons, multiple admin are claiming that pedophiles do nothing wrong and should be allowed to edit. Kameraad Pjotr, one such admin, unblocked a pedophile (who admitted to being a pedophile before and edited multiple pages on multiple projects dealing with pedophilia in a pro-pedophilia manner). Many of his supporters claim that such is acceptable.

You have stated that we have a zero tolerance for pedophiles. In my work with Wikiversity, we determined that since we work with schools (both College and High Schools), we cannot allow pedophiles or the promotion of such material to interfere with us, as it would ruin our reputation. Commons is a project that connects to all others, and being linked to it is highly damaging to our objectives of having a safe and educational environment.

Can you and the WMF please take the appropriate measures to ensure that pedophiles are stopped and that admin who out of process unblock them and saying that "pedophiles do nothing wrong" no longer have the authority and ability to continue in this manner? Otherwise, Wikiversity will take yet another hit, as well as the other projects, if we are linked to such blatantly and unacceptable pro-pedophilia advocacy.

- Ottava Rima (talk) 19:19, 7 July 2010 (UTC)




The link. I'm sick of those people.

Seems to me Sue Gardner owes you an answer.

[tarantino]

Kameraad Pjotr is just some 19 year old kid from Belgium named Pieter De Praetere. He first became an admin at age 15 on nlwiki. That he was allowed to be an admin at that age is just one of the many failures that lead to where WMF projects stand now.

[Ottava]

Seems to me Sue Gardner owes you an answer.

I moved it to Wikiversity because gmaxwell insists in embarrassing Kat Walsh by defending someone by saying that wanting to ban pedophiles is a "witch hunt". That is the definition of advocacy.

It is sick that some people say such awful things here, like "Why can't we judge paedophiles, just like all the other users, by the quality of their contributions and not by their sexual orientation."

Yeah, heaven forbid we keep them from harassing our minors!!!

God damn those people make me sick. I hope Fox News and the rest reveal the sick stuff going on there and the outrageous positions gmaxwell is willing to defend as part of his anti WMF vendetta.

[Moulton]

Seems to me Sue Gardner owes you an answer.

I moved it to Wikiversity because gmaxwell insists in embarrassing Kat Walsh by defending someone by saying that wanting to ban pedophiles is a "witch hunt". That is the definition of advocacy.

Hrmm. Now it has become a "Cross-Wiki Issue." And I see that Gmaxwell blanked it on WV, whereupon you blocked him.

Ottava, you are an involved Custodian. You need to recuse yourself from using the tools when you have a personal conflict with another editor. What you are doing is bringing negative attention to Wikiversity and undermining what little reputation it still has a venue of responsible scholarly review.

It is sick that some people say such awful things here, like "Why can't we judge paedophiles, just like all the other users, by the quality of their contributions and not by their sexual orientation."

If the individual in question has violated a published policy, then whoever makes that allegation is obliged to prove it. Even if it's an open and shut case, a prosecutor still has to make the case, to demonstrate that whatever remedies are being imposed, they are carried out with diligent due process.

Yeah, heaven forbid we keep them from harassing our minors!!!

If I read you correctly, you are advocating punishing someone whom you only fear might possibly commit a future offense. That's a very dangerous precedent to set.

God damn those people make me sick. I hope Fox News and the rest reveal the sick stuff going on there and the outrageous positions gmaxwell is willing to defend as part of his anti WMF vendetta.

Perhaps you will make yourself avaiable to be interviewed by Jana Winter. Larry Sanger can probably put you in touch with her.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

Kameraad Pjotr is just some 19 year old kid from Belgium named Pieter De Praetere. He first became an admin at age 15 on nlwiki. That he was allowed to be an admin at that age is just one of the many failures that lead to where WMF projects stand now.

Let's face it at that age one really understands very little about real life ... especially if one has spent the last 4 years of it investing one's time into Wiki online cult.

[EricBarbour]

Kameraad Pjotr is just some 19 year old kid from Belgium named Pieter De Praetere. He first became an admin at age 15 on nlwiki. That he was allowed to be an admin at that age is just one of the many failures that lead to where WMF projects stand now.

Let's face it at that age one really understands very little about real life ... especially if one has spent the last 4 years of it investing one's time into Wiki online cult.

The freaks who run the WMF love boys of his ilk.

Enthusiastic, ignorant, easy to manipulate. Plenty of energy for marathon ban-revert sessions.
Sorta like, well, you know.

This post has been edited by EricBarbour:

[Somey]

I moved it to Wikiversity because gmaxwell insists in embarrassing Kat Walsh by defending someone by saying that wanting to ban pedophiles is a "witch hunt". That is the definition of advocacy.

I'm not so sure that's the "definition of advocacy," but I have to admit, I'm a little alarmed by this admonition from Ms. Gardner, directed at you:

Ottava Rima, please don't make wild, overreaching accusations about other editors: it's not responsible. Thanks.

Putting aside the supreme irony of the WMF Executive Director saying that someone else is being "not responsible," do you think she's referring to Greg Maxwell and Kameraad Pjotr exclusively, or is she including Tyciol in that group too?

I'd say the more appropriate term for Maxwell and this Pjotr dude would be something like "pedophile tolerators," or maybe "pedophile-tolerance advocates" (more accurate but alas, longer) - given her recent statement to the media folks. I mean, they're not really advocating pedophilia, at least not directly.

[Moulton]

The thing is, even if those "in the know" know with certainty that some individuals have a problematic agenda, you still have to respect the process, lest it become too easy and too tempting to pin a stigmatic label on anyone you dislike and bypass due process. If you are going to level an accusation that, if true, would justify a sanction, you damned well better prove it before a skeptical jury. Protecting due process is more important than nabbing a shady character with a worrisome agenda.

[GlassBeadGame]

I moved it to Wikiversity because gmaxwell insists in embarrassing Kat Walsh by defending someone by saying that wanting to ban pedophiles is a "witch hunt". That is the definition of advocacy.

I'm not so sure that's the "definition of advocacy," but I have to admit, I'm a little alarmed by this admonition from Ms. Gardner, directed at you:

Ottava Rima, please don't make wild, overreaching accusations about other editors: it's not responsible. Thanks.

Putting aside the supreme irony of the WMF Executive Director saying that someone else is being "not responsible," do you think she's referring to Greg Maxwell and Kameraad Pjotr exclusively, or is she including Tyciol in that group too?

I'd say the more appropriate term for Maxwell and this Pjotr dude would be something like "pedophile tolerators," or maybe "pedophile-tolerance advocates" (more accurate but alas, longer) - given her recent statement to the media folks. I mean, they're not really advocating pedophilia, at least not directly.

But Ottava is correct to target them for scrutiny. In doing so he keeps Ms. Gardner's feet to the fire concerning the falseness of her assertion that WMF has a "zero tolerance" policy. I'm surprised that her defense of "the tolerators" would be so blatant.

[Somey]

But Ottava is correct to target them for scrutiny. In doing so he keeps Ms. Gardner's feet to the fire concerning the falseness of her assertion that WMF has a "zero tolerance" policy.

Well, absolutely - he has to be good for something, after all! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

So where are all the calm, rational, reasonable and responsible people on Commons who might object to things like the lolicon images, or unblocking Tyciol, or what-have-you? Are they all on vacation, or is it more like what I suspect, which is that once the free-culture, moral-relativism crowd take over (as they clearly have on Commons), people who might otherwise insist on doing the right thing just head for the hills, for fear of being implicated with pornographers and pedophiles, and maybe having their homes raided by the cops?

I'm surprised that her defense of "the tolerators" would be so blatant.

She almost certainly knows Greg Maxwell personally, right? What with him being married to Kat "Mindspillage" Walsh, who's on the Board. As for Ottava, well... not likely he's going to be elected to the Board any time soon.

[Moulton]

But Ottava is correct to target them for scrutiny.

And therein lies the Wisdom of the Ages.

Not everyone subscribes to the Teachings of Moses, but one of his teachings is enshrined in the ninth of the Ten Commandments: Thou Shalt Not Bear False Witness.

OK, so let us Bear Witness (and let it be Accurate Witness).

But then what? What punishment shall we mete out?

You will note that the Ten Commandments do not prescribe any sanctions at all.

And that's the point.

It suffices to Bear Accurate Witness, no more, no less.

The point being that people generally behave when there are enough eyeballs on them.

And if an intervention is ever needed, it's to rescue the would-be victim, not to punish the would-be predator.

Punishing people generally tends to make them sicker.

Right, Jeff?

[Alison]

Just so yaz know, Ottava is now indefinitely blocked on Commons by Gmaxwell, while Tyciol runs free (and making plenty of maintenance edits. Won't be long before adminship!). I'm guessing the indef on Commons for Ottava was more about whatever happened on Wikiversity yesterday.

Hey Ty - since you're reading this, did you pick up the Black genitalia link from reading here yesterday? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

[Moulton]

And so we have the Karpman Drama Model here in spades. Except that the roles are reversed from one Wiki (Yin) to another (Yang). Which is to say, we gots dramah up the YinYang.

[SB_Johnny]

Just so yaz know, Ottava is now indefinitely blocked on Commons by Gmaxwell, while Tyciol runs free (and making plenty of maintenance edits. Won't be long before adminship!). I'm guessing the indef on Commons for Ottava was more about whatever happened on Wikiversity yesterday.

Well, it might also be about what's happened here over the past several days as well. IIRC, in the past he's run into the britches breaches on commons and meta after sharpening up his arguments here.

Hey Ty - since you're reading this, did you pick up the Black genitalia link from reading here yesterday? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[Cedric]

Just so yaz know, Ottava is now indefinitely blocked on Commons by Gmaxwell, while Tyciol runs free (and making plenty of maintenance edits. Won't be long before adminship!). I'm guessing the indef on Commons for Ottava was more about whatever happened on Wikiversity yesterday.

Hey Ty - since you're reading this, did you pick up the Black genitalia link from reading here yesterday? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

I can confirm he has indeed been reading here lately.

(IMG:http://i527.photobucket.com/albums/cc358/WRCedric/Guild_Navigator.jpg)

"I was not here. I did not say this."

[taiwopanfob]

Hey Ty - since you're reading this, did you pick up the Black genitalia link from reading here yesterday? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif)

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?t...&oldid=41168820

(IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

The comment that inspired the above was, incredibly, even more inane.

http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?t...&oldid=41166120

You make a joke? The title is from reputable artist Peter Klashorst himself, as far as I know. This cannot be changed without destructing the artist's approach. If you don't like it, don't use it. Ah, I see, all those Klashorst images are deleted at flickr and can't be checked again - we have to trust FlickreviewR bot, which confirmed all is ok - Smial

The "artist" (cough) in question runs a website:

http://www.bullshit-artist.com/

wherein the pornographic "bullshit" is kept behind an "18-plus" door. One might think that it's mere presence on Commons would itself be "destructing the artist's approach", but I fear to disturb the gathering of these titans...

[dogbiscuit]

But Ottava is correct to target them for scrutiny. In doing so he keeps Ms. Gardner's feet to the fire concerning the falseness of her assertion that WMF has a "zero tolerance" policy.

Well, absolutely - he has to be good for something, after all! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

So where are all the calm, rational, reasonable and responsible people on Commons who might object to things like the lolicon images, or unblocking Tyciol, or what-have-you? Are they all on vacation, or is it more like what I suspect, which is that once the free-culture, moral-relativism crowd take over (as they clearly have on Commons), people who might otherwise insist on doing the right thing just head for the hills, for fear of being implicated with pornographers and pedophiles, and maybe having their homes raided by the cops?

I'm surprised that her defense of "the tolerators" would be so blatant.

She almost certainly knows Greg Maxwell personally, right? What with him being married to Kat "Mindspillage" Walsh, who's on the Board. As for Ottava, well... not likely he's going to be elected to the Board any time soon.

I would have thought the press would be singularly unimpressed by an open admission that she says one thing to the press while holding an entirely different opinion. Lawyering the words after the fact rarely looks good. Meanwhile, that WikiMirror world carries on where even the definition of "zero-tolerance" is up for debate, with GMaxwell more concerned over the "right" to contribute to commons than the issue that the whole project is being undermined by groups who are running a successful campaign of infiltration to promote and normalise illegal activities - using techniques that succeed exactly because the powers that be refuse to acknowledge common sense - or they are using some measure of common sense that relates approximately to the administrative maturity of the Wikimedia projects.

[Moulton]

A fish rots from the head down.