|
|
|
The Mike Handel Story |
|
|
Milton Roe |
|
Known alias of J. Random Troll
Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,209
Joined:
Member No.: 5,156
|
QUOTE(John Limey @ Tue 2nd March 2010, 6:18pm) BLP hoax accusing fake Oxford professor of murder makes it into the DYK section and draws 4300 page views. Read all about it at On Wikipedia. Oh, that was diabolical and clever. And educational and funny. And it accomplished something maybe. Even. Limey, I'm starting to like you. In the brotherly and collegial regard of one academic toward another. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/wub.gif) Vivat membrum quodlibet and all that.
|
|
|
|
Kevin |
|
Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 242
Joined:
From: Adelaide, Australia
Member No.: 10,522
|
QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 11:18am) BLP hoax accusing fake Oxford professor of murder makes it into the DYK section and draws 4300 page views. Read all about it at On Wikipedia. OK, but nearly everyone here already knows Wikipedia is broken, particularly regarding BLPs. For those who don't, will this extra proof turn them? Probably not. How can this be leveraged to actually make a change?
|
|
|
|
NuclearWarfare |
|
Senior Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 382
Joined:
Member No.: 9,506
|
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 4:04am) Nice work, JL! Thanks! And.... here's MuffledThud asking for help on Resource Exchange. Still hasn't figured out he was punked. Poor lad/whatever. So, what happened to the BLP itself? Oversighted out of existence? Merely deleted ( 00:14, 3 March 2010 Skomorokh (talk | contribs | block) deleted "Mike Handel" ‎ (G3: Vandalism - blatant hoax or misinformation (CSDH)) (view/restore)) "On Wikipedia" has several revisions stored on WebCite though, and those are still up.
|
|
|
|
Milton Roe |
|
Known alias of J. Random Troll
Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,209
Joined:
Member No.: 5,156
|
QUOTE(EricBarbour @ Tue 2nd March 2010, 9:04pm) Nice work, JL! Thanks! And.... here's MuffledThud asking for help on Resource Exchange. Still hasn't figured out he was punked. Poor lad/whatever. I have to imagine "MufledThud" as the sound of his jaw hitting the floor when he finally figures out he's been pwned. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/jawdrop.gif) As for the rest of WP and the chattering-class of obstructionism, there, it may be that this helps not at all. Some people are so stupid that it's impossible to score any debate points against them, because they don't recognize they've been wrong and that they're position is illogical or untennable. They still keep on with it as though nothing had happened. For them, the pointiest POINT might as well be blunt and dull. There is no difference in effect. Perhaps somebody will pick up on the question of the episemological relevence of a citation to a newspaper of record, that doesn't exist on-line and that nobody is willing to dig out of a morgue. If a citation is about an event and nobody reads it, is it the same as if it didn't exist in the first place? Dead tree standard fall in forest; no noise! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif) (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/hmmm.gif) (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/confused.gif) We've long had an argument that WP can't do any damage by resurrecting or exhuming these factoids about living people, and putting them on the web, when they should by all rights have stayed decently mouldering away in the morgue, undisturbed. And now we're sure to see an identical argument that it can't do any real harm if WP puts up such stuff when it's actually imaginary. In the end, the people who argue for BLP for such people who have only morgue stuff available on them, don't really care if that information actually exists in the morgue or not, do they? The truth is not the POINT. They just like to write BLPs. The argument about "reliable sources" which are timeless (notability is NOT temporary, yo, yo) is a distraction, and it doesn't matter what you prove, or don't prove, about it. It won't change their minds, because they do this stuff to non-notables because they want to, not because they can defend it with any sort of cogent argument of any kind. But at least we have cleared some rubbish out of the way.
|
|
|
|
bambi |
|
Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 127
Joined:
Member No.: 6,712
|
As of 0500 March 3 UTC, it is number one in Google for a search for "mike handel" - with or without the quotes. cache link Why doesn't Wikipedia use the NOARCHIVE meta to keep those cache links off of Google, Yahoo, and Bing? This meta in the header section of any page won't affect the ranking for that page. It's also number one in Yahoo and Bing, but apparently they don't have their cache thing together yet for this particluar article.
|
|
|
|
John Limey |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 387
Joined:
Member No.: 12,473
|
QUOTE(Kevin @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 3:11am) QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 11:18am) BLP hoax accusing fake Oxford professor of murder makes it into the DYK section and draws 4300 page views. Read all about it at On Wikipedia. OK, but nearly everyone here already knows Wikipedia is broken, particularly regarding BLPs. For those who don't, will this extra proof turn them? Probably not. How can this be leveraged to actually make a change? We thought it might serve as a wakeup call. Judging by the reaction on Wikipedia, it did nothing like that, which is really, truly disappointing. I've said before, and I come to believe it more every day, that only major stories in the mainstream press have the potential to influence Wikipedia at all, and even then the impact is uncertain. I suppose I'm a bit more idealistic than many of the people here, but we did expect more, and I honestly feel like just shutting the blog down. It turns out that people just don't care about facts after all. What's the point? The evidence is out there from Seigenthaler to Taner Akcam to Mike Handel and many more, but there are too many &%^$* on Wikipedia who won't change a darn thing to actually protect people. The willful blindness to the truth is simply shocking. QUOTE(Somey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 8:24am) Good work on documenting each step of the process - some folks might not have bothered to do that, probably because it makes the whole task less fun. Not that shooting ducks in a barrel is supposed to be fun, but it does make the whole thing much more citable.
How can we turn this into a top-line blurb, then? "Burning Mike Handel at both ends"? "Existence isn't all it's cracked up to be"...?
I liked Zoloft's idea: "Wikipedia can't Handel the truth".
|
|
|
|
Doc glasgow |
|
Wikipedia:The Sump of All Human Knowledge
Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,138
Joined:
From: at home
Member No.: 90
|
Wow, that's exactly the breaching experiment that I was contemplating myself. Kudos to the perpetrator - solid point made! For the record, the article (as deleted) read... QUOTE Michael "Mike" Handel (born June 3, 1930) is a biologist. He was the Terrence F. Gregory Professor of Biology at Magdalen College, University of Oxford. Contents [hide]
* 1 Early life * 2 Early academic career * 3 Israel * 4 Oxford * 5 Retirement * 6 References
Early life
Handel was born in Ann Arbor, Michigan in 1930. His father, Howard Handel, was a British chemist at Imperial College London, then on sabbatical at the University of Michigan. When Handel was three, in 1933, the family moved back to London.[1]
In 1947, Handel entered University College, Oxford where he read biology, graduating in 1950. After graduation, Handel, capitalizing on his American citizenship (gained by virtue of being born in Michigan) left the UK for the US, working for a year in a laboratory at Columbia University in New York City. In 1951, he began graduate study in the biology department at the University of California, Berkeley. In 1954–1955, he returned to the UK to do research at the University of Cambridge and in 1957 he received his doctorate from Berkeley.[1] Early academic career
Handel left Berkeley to become a lecturer in biology at the University of Glasgow, where he remained until 1960, teaching and conducting research in animal behavior and psychopharmacology. In 1961–1962, Handel received grant money to study animal behavior in his own lab at Glasgow and left his teaching responsibilities behind.[2]
Also, in 1961, Handel married Jane MacLaren, a student in literature at Glasgow. They would go on to have three children.[1] Israel
In 1963, Handel was invited to visit Tel Aviv University as a researcher and faculty member, and he arrived ready to continue his research. He left in 1968 to return to the UK.[1] Oxford
In 1968, Handel joined Magdalen College as professor of biology. He remained at Magdalen until 1986, and from 1971 to 1983 held the highly prestigious Terrence F. Gregory Chair. The college eliminated the chair in 1983 for funding reasons.[3]
Nonetheless, many of Handel's experiments, particularly in the 1970s, were highly controversial with animal rights groups, who attempted to bomb his laboratory in 1974; the bomb failed to explode and no one was injured.[4]According to the police, the triggering mechanism on the bomb, which was based on parts taken from an alarm clock, was not properly connected. Handel defended his research after the attack, saying that it was important for the pursuit of knowledge and science, but protesters called him a "Nazi", a "murderer," and accused him of "perpetrating a holocaust against animals". [5]
Handel's research, nonetheless, led to important insights into the toxicity of psychoactive compounds and set the groundwork for later accomplishments in the field.[1] Retirement
Handel retired from Magdalen in 1986, moving to a family home outside Birmingham. He lectured briefly at the University of Birmingham but soon withdrew from academic life. He currently lives at his home near Birmingham and enjoys spending time with his grandchildren.[2] References
1. ^ a b c d e "Farewell to Professor Handel". The Magdalen College Record. 1987. 2. ^ a b "Catching up with Michael Handel - His Reflections on Magdalen in the 70s". The Magdalen College Record. 1996. 3. ^ "Gregory Chair Suspended". The Magdalen College Record. 1983. 4. ^ Patterson, Charles (1993). Animal Rights. Enslow Publishing. pp. 79. 5. ^ Richards, David (11 April 1974). "Attempted bombing of biology lab". The Oxford Times.
|
|
|
|
thekohser |
|
Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,274
Joined:
Member No.: 911
|
This was a fantastic display of not only Wikipedia's gullible trust in their fellow man, but in their trust that "the system works". John, I'm curious to know if all of these edits were made from the same IP address, and what have been the consequences on any of the IPs used? Also, how much time and effort did this take you? I would like to see the "news clipping" forgery from the Oxford Times, too. Did you print it, then crumple it up, then smooth it out, then add a bit of sepia tone to the digital snapshot? Durova might be able to give a few pointers on how to make a fresh print-out look like it's from the "olden days". (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Really, this was excellent work -- but, the dismaying fact remains that if it doesn't get picked up by the mainstream press, it will go largely unnoticed. Have you contacted anyone in the media? I will ping my contacts today, on your behalf. P.S. Looks like it was viewed 4,300 times. Stupendous. This post has been edited by thekohser:
|
|
|
|
bambi |
|
Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 127
Joined:
Member No.: 6,712
|
QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 1:32pm) QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 6:57am) We thought it might serve as a wakeup call.
You don't know them vewwy well, do you? Please refer to previous advice about talking to cultists and fundamentalists. To wit … or not … don't bother. Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif) Yeah, as soon as I posted that bit about the Google cache copy, which asked why Wikipedia doesn't use NOARCHIVE, I then asked myself, "Why do I keep posting extremely reasonable, well-considered suggestions about how Wikipedia handles the search engines? Haven't I learned over the last 4.5 years that it is totally pointless to do this? If I keep doing the same thing while expecting a different result, doesn't that mean that I'm insane?"
|
|
|
|
John Limey |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 387
Joined:
Member No.: 12,473
|
QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 3:13pm) This was a fantastic display of not only Wikipedia's gullible trust in their fellow man, but in their trust that "the system works". John, I'm curious to know if all of these edits were made from the same IP address, and what have been the consequences on any of the IPs used? Also, how much time and effort did this take you? I would like to see the "news clipping" forgery from the Oxford Times, too. Did you print it, then crumple it up, then smooth it out, then add a bit of sepia tone to the digital snapshot? Durova might be able to give a few pointers on how to make a fresh print-out look like it's from the "olden days". (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif) Really, this was excellent work -- but, the dismaying fact remains that if it doesn't get picked up by the mainstream press, it will go largely unnoticed. Have you contacted anyone in the media? I will ping my contacts today, on your behalf. P.S. Looks like it was viewed 4,300 times. Stupendous. The forgery was not especially sophisticated. David handled it, and we were both pleased with the results. It's (at least temporarily) on WikiMedia Commons( here). I'm not quite sure what the techniques involved were, but I'll ask. I tried getting in touch with a few media types, but I have no connections, and no nibbles thus far. This post has been edited by John Limey:
|
|
|
|
A Horse With No Name |
|
I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,471
Joined:
Member No.: 9,985
|
QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 10:39am) I tried getting in touch with a few media types, but I have no connections, and no nibbles thus far.
Not even Cade Metz? Maybe Cade is getting tired of WP -- even the Roger Davies plagiarism dust up didn't rouse Cade from napping. But, then again, it is not a new story -- for years, articles on WP's unreliable infrastructure have circulated. This is another to add to the pile. Also, other fraudulent DYKs have been identified before, so this is just an extravagant variation on a well-established trick.
|
|
|
|
John Limey |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 387
Joined:
Member No.: 12,473
|
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 4:07pm) QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 10:39am) I tried getting in touch with a few media types, but I have no connections, and no nibbles thus far.
Not even Cade Metz? Maybe Cade is getting tired of WP -- even the Roger Davies plagiarism dust up didn't rouse Cade from napping. But, then again, it is not a new story -- for years, articles on WP's unreliable infrastructure have circulated. This is another to add to the pile. Also, other fraudulent DYKs have been identified before, so this is just an extravagant variation on a well-established trick. Yes, there was nothing particularly new here. BLP disasters and fake DYKs are as old as Wikipedia, but this one was particularly bad. I think, in retrospect, that we might have done better at attracting media attention if we had found some reporter and tipped him off before we announced the hoax on the blog, thus allowing the reporter to have the exclusive scoop.
|
|
|
|
A Horse With No Name |
|
I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,471
Joined:
Member No.: 9,985
|
QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 6:57am) We thought it might serve as a wakeup call. Judging by the reaction on Wikipedia, it did nothing like that, which is really, truly disappointing.
That is no surprise. The only time there is any stirring is if some lunatic is yelling his head off. Content is not king -- it's all about slapstick and melodrama. QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 11:11am) BLP disasters and fake DYKs are as old as Wikipedia, but this one was particularly bad. I think, in retrospect, that we might have done better at attracting media attention if we had found some reporter and tipped him off before we announced the hoax on the blog, thus allowing the reporter to have the exclusive scoop.
Seigenthaler was worse because it was a real person. A phony BLP that wins a worthless award is not news, sorry.
|
|
|
|
Jon Awbrey |
|
Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,783
Joined:
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619
|
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 11:07am) QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 10:39am) I tried getting in touch with a few media types, but I have no connections, and no nibbles thus far.
Not even Cade Metz? Maybe Cade is getting tired of WP — even the Roger Davies plagiarism dust up didn't rouse Cade from napping. But, then again, it is not a new story — for years, articles on WP's unreliable infrastructure have circulated. This is another to add to the pile. Also, other fraudulent DYKs have been identified before, so this is just an extravagant variation on a well-established trick. Not sexy enough for either the Main (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/scream.gif) or the BotBoy media — Carbuncle and Milton's link from Mike Handel to lesbians? Close, but no cigar … Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
|
|
|
|
John Limey |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 387
Joined:
Member No.: 12,473
|
Jimmy Wales has now weighed in about this on his talk page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Jim...P_hoax_made_DYK. Some of the things he said were, in my opinion, perfect. QUOTE But while this case points to some easy fixes to policy, there's also a deeper and more philosophical question relating to "inclusionism and deletionism" and one reason why as Wikipedia has grown larger and larger, I have become more deletionist. This incident confirms, more clearly than any other that I have seen, something I have been saying for awhile that it is absolutely not possible for us to responsibly have BLPs on marginally notable people. I strongly support that we look at notability policy and tighten it quite severely, especially for BLPs. If a subject isn't notable enough to have reliable sources that are easily checked, then we shouldn't have an article about that person at all. And we absolutely cannot accept negative BLP statements from reliable sources that can't be easily checked.
|
|
|
|
Jon Awbrey |
|
Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,783
Joined:
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619
|
QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 11:24am) Jimmy Wales has now weighed in about this on his talk page: User talk:Jimbo Wales#Oh, Look, Radar, Another BLP. Some of the things he said were, in my opinion, perfect. Woids, Boids. Cheep, Cheep.
Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
|
|
|
|
John Limey |
|
Senior Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 387
Joined:
Member No.: 12,473
|
QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 4:14pm) QUOTE(John Limey @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 11:11am) BLP disasters and fake DYKs are as old as Wikipedia, but this one was particularly bad. I think, in retrospect, that we might have done better at attracting media attention if we had found some reporter and tipped him off before we announced the hoax on the blog, thus allowing the reporter to have the exclusive scoop.
Seigenthaler was worse because it was a real person. A phony BLP that wins a worthless award is not news, sorry. To be sure, Seigenthaler was much more significant in that he was real. However, quantity of news coverage generated is not at all proportional to the severity of the BLP incident. The Akcam incident was FAR worse than what happened to Seigenthaler but didn't make it into nearly as many papers. Why? Well perhaps because Seigenthaler was first, but I think it's more likely that it's because Seigenthaler is extremely well-connected in media circles. This post has been edited by John Limey:
|
|
|
|
Milton Roe |
|
Known alias of J. Random Troll
Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,209
Joined:
Member No.: 5,156
|
QUOTE(Trick cyclist @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 5:30am) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 4:38am) QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 2nd March 2010, 9:09pm) Excellent work, but I would have given you extra points if you had titled your blog posting "Burning Mike Handel at both ends"...
(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/pinch.gif) It sheds a lovely light! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Hoo! http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/20233Good thing you dont edit on WQ, Prof. Roe! Or do you? And Jon Awbrey gave this link and he didnt notice either. I'm thinking about editing on WQ as "Quillercastingcouch." My main function being to audition Baxter socks, who are easily detectable by their predilection to correct poetry quotes. The purpose being to see if they can play WR regulars, without screwing up. So far, not doing so well, but then you never know when you'll run across a gem.
|
|
|
|
Jon Awbrey |
|
Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,783
Joined:
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619
|
QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 1:07pm) QUOTE(Trick cyclist @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 5:30am) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 4:38am) QUOTE(carbuncle @ Tue 2nd March 2010, 9:09pm) Excellent work, but I would have given you extra points if you had titled your blog posting "Burning Mike Handel at both ends" …
(IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/pinch.gif) It sheds a lovely light! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Hoo! http://www.poets.org/viewmedia.php/prmMID/20233Good thing you dont edit on WQ, Prof. Roe! Or do you? And Jon Awbrey gave this link and he didnt notice either. I'm thinking about editing on WQ as "Quillercastingcouch". My main function being to audition Baxter socks, who are easily detectable by their predilection to correct poetry quotes. The purpose being to see if they can play WR regulars, without screwing up. So far, not doing so well, but then you never know when you'll run across a gem. Any more of this wiki-pettiness and I'll revoke both of yer poet's' liscencseseses. Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)
|
|
|
|
NuclearWarfare |
|
Senior Member
Group: Contributors
Posts: 382
Joined:
Member No.: 9,506
|
QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 5:18pm) I actually think it's interesting that his name account isn't blocked "on principle", which is either (1) a positive sign that some lessons were learned from Greg's breach, (2) a sign that Durova doesn't have a personal grudge against him yet (since he's not Greg), or (3) they haven't gotten around to it yet. Especially interesting because they seem rather block-happy the past week or two otherwise. I don't know if David is technically banned or not, but I really don't care. And I think (hope?) most administrators are intelligent enough to know that a block would not accomplish anything here.
|
|
|
|
Apathetic |
|
Ãœber Member
Group: Regulars
Posts: 594
Joined:
Member No.: 7,383
|
QUOTE(NuclearWarfare @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 2:51pm) QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Wed 3rd March 2010, 5:18pm) I actually think it's interesting that his name account isn't blocked "on principle", which is either (1) a positive sign that some lessons were learned from Greg's breach, (2) a sign that Durova doesn't have a personal grudge against him yet (since he's not Greg), or (3) they haven't gotten around to it yet. Especially interesting because they seem rather block-happy the past week or two otherwise. I don't know if David is technically banned or not, but I really don't care. And I think (hope?) most administrators are intelligent enough to know that a block would not accomplish anything here. I blocked UTYVB8 as another cookie cutter sock, but I figured the named account could remain. Also as he assured there would be no more hoaxes...
|
|
|
|
|
|
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:
| |