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Fundraising Survey (2009) |
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thekohser |
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Get your comments in now! QUOTE (As this email may enact changes that affect the total Wikimedia community, please feel free to forward or post this email on any and all applicable lists. We would like as much feedback as possible.) Wikimedians-- In advance of our Annual Fundraiser (starting in November), Wikimedia is undertaking a survey of donors and potential donors in order to improve the effectiveness and efficiency of fundraising efforts of the Wikimedia Foundation. The results from this survey will help us to better understand donors and potential donors, and ultimately, will help to increase donations to the Wikimedia Foundation. There are several basic questions the survey is intended to answer: * Who donates to the Wikimedia Foundation? What characteristics do donors to the Wikimedia Foundation share? * Are there different types of donors that can be segmented by common characteristics? * What motivates individuals to donate to the Wikimedia Foundation? * What expectations do donors have about how their donations are used? * What would (or how can Wikimedia) motivate current donors to increase their contributions? * Why don't more individuals donate to the Wikimedia Foundation? * What is likely to motivate non-donors to become donors? You can find the survey process, timeline, methodology, & questions here: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fundraising_Survey_2009We would appreciate your input on the questions and how to make this survey as effective as possible. -Rand -- Rand Montoya Head of Community Giving Wikimedia Foundation www.wikimedia.org Email: rand at wikimedia.org Phone: 415.839.6885 x615 Fax: 415.882.0495 Cell: 510.685.7030
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thekohser |
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EricBarbour |
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blah
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Well, Brother McBride, why don't you call up one of the Golden Shower Experts in the San Francisco office (specifically Mr. Montoya), and see if you can get some coherent explanation? Report back if it makes a drop of sense. Good luck, you'll need it. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/angry.gif) And as Greg pointed out to the only person who responded (a Twinkle-running vandal fairy)-- the whole idea is already a failure, because the only commentor was Greg. And the response? QUOTE I wouldn't say that community input has failed, merely that meta is a small wiki with a small community; many of whom might simply be uninterested in this topic. I'd still advise that if you think the process needs help to offer it. What's two hours in the grand scheme of the universe after all? It wouldn't be time wasted anyway; it might serve as a starting point for discussions on the next iteration of the survey. I agree that a scientific methodology would certainly lead to results that are unimpeachable. Personally, my expertise in survey design and statistics is medically based, not fund-raising. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) fr33kman t - c 20:23, 6 July 2009 (UTC) You interfered with his Jimbo-chant, Greg. Boo hoo.
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thekohser |
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I think that I've about wrapped up my work on restructuring the survey so that it will most meaningfully capture data that informs the Wikimedia Foundation about its strengths, weaknesses, opportunities, and threats in the contribution fundraising category. A wiki is a horrible way to collaboratively design a survey questionnaire. If there had been other participants working as frequently as I in this process, we would have had edit conflicts galore, and there would not be the sense of continuity (of wording, of scales, etc.) that is so helpful for a respondent taking a survey. Fortunately, though, I was virtually a lone voice acting on this task -- despite trying to publicize it here, here, and here, a fruitless salvo. Now that I'm mentioning it here, though, I imagine my hard work will get the work-over and be torn to shreds. I hope that you all will appreciate my "in-survey quiz" about the personnel of the WMF. It's not a joke -- rather, my attempt to gauge just how "in tune" is the Wikimedia project "community" with who actually runs the joint. I suspect the majority will think that Jimmy Wales or "Don't know" are the Executive Director and Chair of the Board of Trustees.
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Kelly Martin |
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Bring back the guttersnipes!
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 16th July 2009, 11:19am) A wiki is a horrible way to collaboratively design a survey questionnaire. A wiki is a horrible way to collaboratively design anything. I suspect that wikis have about run their useful life. They work ok when you have an already close-knit group of people who already have internalized conflict management strategies. If you don't have such strategies in your working group, though, a wiki will just amplify those conflicts, without providing any sort of framework to focus such conflicts toward resolution. Most successful wikis, from what I've seen, allow editing only by people who are already a part of the working group, and that working group already has a track record of successful collaboration. Either that, or they're just being used as a content engine, a role for which any number of other products would do just as well.
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thekohser |
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This weekend, Jeff Pilisuk ("Marketing guru, eco-entrepreneur, social media junkie, health fanatic, coffee addict, and all around good-guy", according to his Twitter page), using an IP address, accepted and (presumably) copied as "final" about 90% of my version of the Fundraising Survey. Pretty amazing that a formerly banned troll would be given the reins in almost single-handedly guiding and massaging such an important research initiative. Thank you, Meta, for being the Wikimedia backwater that you are! This post has been edited by thekohser:
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MBisanz |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 20th July 2009, 2:41pm) This weekend, Jeff Pilisuk ("Marketing guru, eco-entrepreneur, social media junkie, health fanatic, coffee addict, and all around good-guy", according to his Twitter page), using an IP address, accepted and (presumably) copied as "final" about 90% of my version of the Fundraising Survey. Pretty amazing that a formerly banned troll would be given the reins in almost single-handedly guiding and massaging such an important research initiative. Thank you, Meta, for being the Wikimedia backwater that you are! So, in other words, they used your valuable knowledge about marketing and business to get a professional survey for free.
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thekohser |
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It didn't take SpiderHands Sue (assuming the buck stopped with her) very long to do what probably should have been done in the first place -- farm out the survey to a professional research company. Except, in typical Wikimedia fashion, they gave it to an outfit that nobody's ever heard of: Tulsa-based Q2 Consulting, LLC. Anyway, here is their report -- completely biased by self-selection, since they apparently did nothing to contact a small sample of non-responders, to see how their opinions differed from the gung ho types. Now, let's see... who is from Tulsa? This post has been edited by thekohser:
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EricBarbour |
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blah
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 6th October 2010, 11:05am) Except, in typical Wikimedia fashion, they gave it to an outfit that nobody's ever heard of: Tulsa-based Q2 Consulting, LLC. Anyway, here is their report -- completely biased by self-selection, since they apparently did nothing to contact a small sample of non-responders, to see how their opinions differed from the gung ho types. Now, let's see... who is from Tulsa? Dunno, but Philippe has some kind of personal connection to Q2 Consulting partner Nelly Vanzetti. Their names are listed together here.Ah! According to LinkedIn, he used to be a..... "Research Associate at Q2 Consulting, LLC". What a coinkydink! (You need a LinkedIn account to see that.) This post has been edited by EricBarbour:
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 6th October 2010, 1:05pm) Anyway, here is their report -- completely biased by self-selection, since they apparently did nothing to contact a small sample of non-responders, to see how their opinions differed from the gung ho types. Even so, it doesn't tell us anything we didn't already know, or even predict. In addition to the self-selection bias, there's the inherent assumption that genuine concerns about Wikipedia's irresponsibility (and relationship to society in general) are not to be mentioned, in favor of the usual claptrap: - That Wikipedia will be forced to sell advertising to maintain itself
- That the volunteers who contribute the vast majority of Wikipedia's content will lose interest over time and Wikipedia will become out-of-date
- That Wikipedia will include information that is incomplete, distorted, or wrong
- That Wikipedia will be forced to charge money for access
- That major corporations or other interested parties will influence Wikipedia's content and priorities
In other words, the only hint that real issues are even being considered here is the single word "distort," and even that's mostly self-serving. And obviously at no point do they mention the concern that money being donated isn't actually being used for anything, other than maybe a war-chest to defend against future lawsuits. QUOTE Now, let's see... who is from Tulsa? I'd say the chances of that being purely a coincidence are less than 10 percent. (Edit - Eric B. beat me to the punch there!)
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jayvdb |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Sun 10th October 2010, 2:54am) Since they wouldn't respond intelligently on the Foundation-l mailing list, the national news media had to get involved. It doesn't look very good for Mssrs. Beaudette and Montoya, as the piece pulls no punches. Your piece in examiner.com is national news media, and the BayNewser blog is mainstream media? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif) Other than that, nice work.
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thekohser |
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QUOTE(jayvdb @ Sun 10th October 2010, 11:56pm) Your piece in examiner.com is national news media, and the BayNewser blog is mainstream media? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif) Other than that, nice work. Examiner.com is the #30 news site on the Internet, according to Alexa. It ranks higher in online reach than Business Week, Time Magazine, or CBS News. My articles have received over 3,400 page views in the less than three months since I began writing for Examiner. I don't know what more you want from me than that. As for the MediaBistro / BayNewser description as "mainstream media", I suppose I could change that in my article. MediaBistro.com is dedicated to anyone who creates or works with content, or who is a non-creative professional working in a content/creative industry. That includes editors, writers, producers, graphic designers, book publishers, and others in industries including magazines, television, film, radio, newspapers, book publishing, online media, advertising, PR, and design. The property was sold in 2007 to Jupitermedia for $27 million, according to Wikipedia. That's only 1/20th of what the Philadelphia Inquirer sold for in the previous year. You got me on that one -- sorry. Thank you for the compliment on the rest of the article. This post has been edited by thekohser:
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thekohser |
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I want to say another thing about the quality of the Q2 Consulting LLC reports. In the short report, they call out: " Note high % of retired participating". Some 12.3% of the survey participants reported that they were retired. Well, guess what? According to the United States census figures, about 13.2% of people over the age of 16 in the United States are over the age of 65 and not in the labor force nor formally identified as "unemployed" -- in other words, "retired". So, really, there was not a "high % of retired participating"; it was an appropriately expected percentage of retired participating. A similar gaffe is found in the long report. Q2 Consulting says about the respondents to its survey, " notably, 63% are not living with children". Guess what? The U.S. census tells us that 68.2% of households have no children under 18 present in them. So, why is it "notable" that 63% of the respondents to a donors survey about Wikipedia would not be living with children? These strike me as comments made by a consulting firm that doesn't really do a lot of population surveys. This post has been edited by thekohser:
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jayvdb |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 11th October 2010, 1:37pm) QUOTE(jayvdb @ Sun 10th October 2010, 11:56pm) Your piece in examiner.com is national news media, and the BayNewser blog is mainstream media? (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif) Other than that, nice work. Examiner.com is the #30 news site on the Internet, according to Alexa. It ranks higher in online reach than Business Week, Time Magazine, or CBS News. My articles have received over 3,400 page views in the less than three months since I began writing for Examiner. I don't know what more you want from me than that. Colour me surprised. It's Alexa ranking (524) is a lot higher than I expected. Is examiner.com solely 'citizen' contributed stories, or does it syndicate content as well? Is 3,400 page views the combined total across all your articles, or an average for each article?
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thekohser |
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QUOTE(jayvdb @ Mon 11th October 2010, 6:42pm) Colour me surprised. It's Alexa ranking (524) is a lot higher than I expected.
Is examiner.com solely 'citizen' contributed stories, or does it syndicate content as well?
Is 3,400 page views the combined total across all your articles, or an average for each article?
You mean "Its". (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) My understanding is that the content is 100% generated by "citizen" reporters; but, keep in mind, that there is an application process, a background check, a fairly substantial training process, and ongoing service forums and tutorials, to help these citizens perform more like "professional" journalists. We are all paid for our articles, based on a proprietary algorithm of page views, length of time on page, comments, etc. It's not a way of living by any means (I've made about $25 so far), but it is a bit of a motivation that separates the task from other "free culture" scams. I suppose someone who really churned out a couple of articles per day on popular (celebrities, UFO's, sports) topics, could probably pay for their household's groceries each month. The 3,400 page views is the combined total across all of my articles thus far. It's up to 3,560 today. P.S. If anyone is interested in becoming an Examiner, please sign up by claiming me as a referral. I'll get $50 once you're an established reporter, and I'll share half of that with you. This post has been edited by thekohser:
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Cedric |
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General Gato
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 12th October 2010, 8:14am) Kudos to Jayvdb... but how long before he too is "moderated" on the Foundation-l list? Also, it looks like Geni is jealous of my role as Wikimedia critic, but John Vandy put her (?) in her place. Tsk, tsk! John is forgetting the Foundation's motto:
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Jon Awbrey |
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Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 12th October 2010, 8:35pm) This is really getting out of hand. The Deputy Director of the Wikimedia Foundation is now advising that questions about competitive bidding and possible violation of WMF's own internal policies on purchasing and disbursements should be suppressed on the Foundation's public mailing list, and shunted off to an even more inaccessible place and time, like "IRC Office Hours". Is it just me, or have I really hit on a nerve here, that this much under-the-rug sweeping is being carried out? QUOTE(Jimmy Wales @ 18 May 2010) One of the interesting things about Wikipedia is that we do all of our work publicly and in the open. And the kinds of disagreements and tussles and struggles within the community that would normally, at The Encyclopedia Britannica, go on behind closed doors, we do in public, because that's the way we do our work.
— Jimmy Wales, “Debate : The Internet and Democracyâ€, Miller Center of Public Affairs, 18 May 2010.
Is there a transcript for the debate that I can cite? — I can't imagine ever having the stomach to sit through that whole video. Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif) Okay, I found the PDF transcript. Jimbo's remark is at the top of page 17. Jon (IMG: http://wikipediareview.com/stimg9x0b4fsr2/1/folder_post_icons/icon9.gif)
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SB_Johnny |
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It wasn't me who made honky-tonk angels
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Tue 12th October 2010, 11:18pm) QUOTE(thekohser @ Tue 12th October 2010, 8:35pm) This is really getting out of hand. The Deputy Director of the Wikimedia Foundation is now advising that questions about competitive bidding and possible violation of WMF's own internal policies on purchasing and disbursements should be suppressed on the Foundation's public mailing list, and shunted off to an even more inaccessible place and time, like "IRC Office Hours". Is it just me, or have I really hit on a nerve here, that this much under-the-rug sweeping is being carried out? QUOTE(Jimmy Wales @ 18 May 2010) One of the interesting things about Wikipedia is that we do all of our work publicly and in the open. And the kinds of disagreements and tussles and struggles within the community that would normally, at The Encyclopedia Britannica, go on behind closed doors, we do in public, because that's the way we do our work.
— Jimmy Wales, “Debate : The Internet and Democracyâ€, Miller Center of Public Affairs, 18 May 2010.
Is there a transcript for the debate that I can cite? — I can't imagine ever having the stomach to sit through that whole video. Jon (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/sick.gif) Okay, I found the PDF transcript. Jimbo's remark is at the top of page 17. Jon (IMG: http://wikipediareview.com/stimg9x0b4fsr2/1/folder_post_icons/icon9.gif) That stuff on the mailing list is just embarrassing. Moulton would probably point out that every role in the "lunatic drama" was played perfectly! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/popcorn.gif) Epic win, Greg. I suppose it would be naive to think this might portend a change of tides, but the levee seems to be developing noticeable cracks. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/applause.gif)
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jayvdb |
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QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Wed 13th October 2010, 8:56pm) QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 13th October 2010, 2:51pm) Sue Gardner will take office hours on IRC tomorrow. It's at a time when I can't possibly participate, so will someone please ask her about how the Q2 Consulting research project was awarded? Wish I could, but apparently these things are timed to exclude Americans with jobs. And 99% of Australians. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif)
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SB_Johnny |
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It wasn't me who made honky-tonk angels
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QUOTE(jayvdb @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:56am) QUOTE(SB_Johnny @ Wed 13th October 2010, 8:56pm) QUOTE(thekohser @ Wed 13th October 2010, 2:51pm) Sue Gardner will take office hours on IRC tomorrow. It's at a time when I can't possibly participate, so will someone please ask her about how the Q2 Consulting research project was awarded? Wish I could, but apparently these things are timed to exclude Americans with jobs. And 99% of Australians. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/sad.gif) Maybe you should mention that on the mailinglist. Assuming they haven't banned you, of course. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)
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thekohser |
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Well, I really have to hand it to the Wikimedia community. Maybe they are turning over a new leaf and becoming more cooperative and open. For example, here is David Gerard not calling me a dick: QUOTE On 13 October 2010 14:42, Gregory Kohs <thekohser at gmail.com> wrote:
> I find it interesting that some 18 hours after Gerard's notification (and my > posting a comment on The Australian's page), still not a single comment has > been approved for publication. I wonder why that is? Is there some > official policy within the "pro-Free Culture" movement that mandates > suppression of critical viewpoints of the movement?
The answer obviously implied by your phrasing of your question is indeed the correct one: it's because Wikimedia controls Rupert Murdoch and News International as well as all those other newspapers. It couldn't possibly be that you're just a dick. After all, my comment wasn't published either.
- d.
And, I did actually have a few minutes to present my question about the 2010 Donor Study in the Sue Gardner "office hours" meeting on IRC. I think it went over very, very well! QUOTE /join #wikimedia-office *** sgardner [~sgardner@wikimedia/Sue-Gardner] has joined #wikimedia-office <Thekohser> QUESTION: The recently completed 2010 Donor Survey, by Q2 Consulting... was a competitive bid put out for that work, and if not, why not? If so, by what criteria were Q2 Consulting selected? How much did the project cost the Foundation? *** killiondude changed the topic to: Office hours with Sue Gardner (Executive Director) | See http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_office_hours for more info. <killiondude> BOLD and all that. <Nihiltres> ... * guillom puts killiondude in /italics/ <killiondude> :-D *** jowen [~jowen@wikimedia/James-Owen] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] *** jowen_ is now known as jowen <guillom> Twisted. <Jyothis> hello everyone *** daisokawa [~disokawa@216.38.130.161] has joined #wikimedia-office <Nihiltres> thekohser: I'm guessing on that last one that if no, it's because fair competitive bids are themselves a good deal of work <sgardner> Okay! Good morning, folks. (Or at least, it is morning for me.) *** mode/#wikimedia-office [+v sgardner] by ChanServ *** bawolff [~bawolff@wikinews/bawolff] has joined #wikimedia-office *** dphelps [~dphelps@216.38.130.166] has joined #wikimedia-office *** mode/#wikimedia-office [+b *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.68.87.42.110] by Jamesofur *** Thekohser was kicked from #wikimedia-office by Jamesofur [Thekohser] For some reason, I lost my connection to the IRC shortly after that, and then my entire Firefox browser froze up, and then my computer crashes. I get a hard crash on my computer about once every three weeks or so, so I am certain that it couldn't have possibly had anything to do with the Foundation's access to my IP address or such.
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Versa |
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Did anyone ask either:
How much did the survey cost?
or
Who approved the expenditure?
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thekohser |
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More details then followed. QUOTE <sgardner> That's the gist, on Q2. <sgardner> (Q2 is the name of the firm.) <sgardner> Any follow-up questions on that -- I'd be happy to answer them, if there are any., <Nemo_bis> Do you usually run an RFP above some spending limit? <sgardner> No, not necessarily. <sgardner> (Nemo_bis) <Werespielchqrs> Do you have a policy on what size of contract can be awarded without a bidding process? <sgardner> The thing is that dollar-amount isn't necessarily the best indicator of whether an RFP is required/helpful. <sgardner> Same question, Werespielchqrs, and it's the same answer. <Nemo_bis> You can have exceptions. :-) <sgardner> I think it's possible that in the fullness of time, we will develop policy for when to run an RFP. <Nemo_bis> Obviously we should consider that time to run an RFP is a cost. <sgardner> For example, at the CBC we certainly did have policy on this. <Jamesofur> FYI: The log will be posted (unedited) (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif) <sgardner> But Nemo_bis is correct: it comes at a cost. Running an RFP is complicated and time-consuming, particularly if individual staffers need to run their own RFPs every time, rather than having support from for example a Purchasing Department. <sgardner> In many ways, large organizations are better suited to running RFPs relative to small organizations. <killiondude> How much did the research study cost, by chance? <sgardner> I don't know how much it cost. <sgardner> (Which means it was not a very, very large amount of money.) And "Jimmy has never done anything wrong", right Sue?
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thekohser |
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This gets better. Immediately after I was booted from "Office Hours": QUOTE [13:08] * Jamesofur sets mode: +v sgardner [13:08] * Abbasjnr (c4c9daf1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.241) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)�) [13:08] * Sky2042_afk (~Sky2042@wikipedia/Izno) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:08] <Dakdadaah> Good evening from me [13:08] <+sgardner> It's true! Someone is always awake :-) [13:08] <killiondude> Why was he banned? I didn't think he was being obtuse. [13:09] <aude> good morning sgardner! [13:09] <killiondude> He actually came in to #wikimedia asking if that was okay to ask, and a few people thought it was okay. [13:09] <Theo10011> Hi [13:09] <dgultekin> Hey Theo [13:09] * dferg (d4808a82@Wikimedia/Dferg) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:09] <+sgardner> Hi Katie, Theo :-) [13:09] <+sgardner> Dakdadaah :-) [13:09] * michi_cc (michi@pdpc/supporter/student/michi-cc) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with. [13:10] <+sgardner> Steven's going to answer killiondude's question about Greg Kohs. [13:10] <+sgardner> ooh, he is answering. [13:10] <Nihiltres> killiondude: his question isn't intrinsically bad, but it's not helpful [13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had. [13:10] <killiondude> Are these office hours ever helpful, Nihiltres? [13:10] * DiegoGrez (ElPadrino@186.20.34.121) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:10] * apergos (~ariel@wiktionary/ArielGlenn) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] * meganrhernandez (~megan@216.38.130.162) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] * erwin (~erwin85@wikimedia/erwin) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] <Nihiltres> killiondude: I like to think so [13:11] * Dragonfly6-7 (~test@bas1-montreal48-1176173479.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] <+sgardner> While Steven is typing, maybe I will say some other stuff also. [13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different. [13:11] <killiondude> He was told to use IRC. [13:11] * PeterSymonds (~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] <Dragonfly6-7> oh, but was kicked off? [13:12] <@Jamesofur> the IRC discussion was meant for the mailing list as a whole [13:12] <dferg> what's the topic for today's office hours, please? Thank you. [13:12] * Abbasjnr (c4c9dafe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.254) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered. [13:12] <killiondude> w/e, i don't care too much. I just find it disappointing. :-) [13:12] * Theo10011 waves at dgultekin [13:12] <+sgardner> So. The board met over the weekend, and SJ has published four resolutions from the meeting: one on Movement Roles II, one on trustee term length, one on fundraising principles and one on the five-year-targets. So I am happy to talk about that, or about any other topic associated with the board meeting. [13:13] <+sgardner> And, I am happy to talk about any other topic as well, and I'm happy to answer the Greg Kohs question if you folks want me to.
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TungstenCarbide |
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Allegedly shot down by stray Ukrainian missile
Group: Regulars
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 7:45pm) This gets better. Immediately after I was booted from "Office Hours": QUOTE [13:08] * Jamesofur sets mode: +v sgardner [13:08] * Abbasjnr (c4c9daf1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.241) Quit (Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)�) [13:08] * Sky2042_afk (~Sky2042@wikipedia/Izno) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:08] <Dakdadaah> Good evening from me [13:08] <+sgardner> It's true! Someone is always awake :-) [13:08] <killiondude> Why was he banned? I didn't think he was being obtuse. [13:09] <aude> good morning sgardner! [13:09] <killiondude> He actually came in to #wikimedia asking if that was okay to ask, and a few people thought it was okay. [13:09] <Theo10011> Hi [13:09] <dgultekin> Hey Theo [13:09] * dferg (d4808a82@Wikimedia/Dferg) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:09] <+sgardner> Hi Katie, Theo :-) [13:09] <+sgardner> Dakdadaah :-) [13:09] * michi_cc (michi@pdpc/supporter/student/michi-cc) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with. [13:10] <+sgardner> Steven's going to answer killiondude's question about Greg Kohs. [13:10] <+sgardner> ooh, he is answering. [13:10] <Nihiltres> killiondude: his question isn't intrinsically bad, but it's not helpful [13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had. [13:10] <killiondude> Are these office hours ever helpful, Nihiltres? [13:10] * DiegoGrez (ElPadrino@186.20.34.121) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:10] * apergos (~ariel@wiktionary/ArielGlenn) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] * meganrhernandez (~megan@216.38.130.162) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] * erwin (~erwin85@wikimedia/erwin) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] <Nihiltres> killiondude: I like to think so [13:11] * Dragonfly6-7 (~test@bas1-montreal48-1176173479.dsl.bell.ca) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] <+sgardner> While Steven is typing, maybe I will say some other stuff also. [13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different. [13:11] <killiondude> He was told to use IRC. [13:11] * PeterSymonds (~Peter@wikimedia/PeterSymonds) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:11] <Dragonfly6-7> oh, but was kicked off? [13:12] <@Jamesofur> the IRC discussion was meant for the mailing list as a whole [13:12] <dferg> what's the topic for today's office hours, please? Thank you. [13:12] * Abbasjnr (c4c9dafe@gateway/web/cgi-irc/wikizine.org/ip.196.201.218.254) has joined #wikimedia-office [13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered. [13:12] <killiondude> w/e, i don't care too much. I just find it disappointing. :-) [13:12] * Theo10011 waves at dgultekin [13:12] <+sgardner> So. The board met over the weekend, and SJ has published four resolutions from the meeting: one on Movement Roles II, one on trustee term length, one on fundraising principles and one on the five-year-targets. So I am happy to talk about that, or about any other topic associated with the board meeting. [13:13] <+sgardner> And, I am happy to talk about any other topic as well, and I'm happy to answer the Greg Kohs question if you folks want me to. StevenW ... it he this guy?? (IMG: http://i978.photobucket.com/albums/ae268/TungstenCarbide/VanTucky_and_hen.jpg)
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Jon Awbrey |
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Ï„á½° δΠμοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
Group: Moderators
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 3:45pm) This gets better. Immediately after I was booted from “Office Hoursâ€: QUOTE [13:10] <@StevenW> Killiondude: There is a list of exactly two people that the WMF feels obliged never to engage with. [13:10] <@StevenW> Kohs and an IRL stalker that the office has had. [13:11] <@StevenW> We didn't answer him on the mailing list for that reason, and IRC is no different. [13:12] <@StevenW> Killiondude: We were responding to John Vandenberg IIRC. Who is obviously a good faith Wikimedian who deserves to be answered.
So what StewieW is saying is that the WikiMedia Foundation does not answer to The Public, but solely to “Good Faith†members of the cult. I'm glad we finally cleared that up, but isn't that what we've been saying all along? Jon (IMG: http://wikipediareview.com/stimg9x0b4fsr2/1/folder_post_icons/icon9.gif)
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thekohser |
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Member
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I missed this closing word from Spider Hands: QUOTE [14:09] <+sgardner> Anyway: upshot -- likely at some point in the future we will develop an RFP policy, but it's not imminent. And I think it's fine for us, at this point, to experiment a little -- sometimes running RFPs when we think circumstances warrant it, and sometimes not running them when we think it's not warranted. That way we can learn how much work it is, whether it leads to useful outcomes, and so forth. In general, our goal is to get the best possible outcomes, and if RFPs don't help us do that, I would be less inclined to use them as a tool. Other than when you have a project that maybe costs less than $5,000, and you're on a deadline for completion within the next week or two, WHEN EXACTLY is an RFP process not going to help yield the best possible outcomes? What am I missing here?
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 14th October 2010, 10:10pm) Other than when you have a project that maybe costs less than $5,000, and you're on a deadline for completion within the next week or two, WHEN EXACTLY is an RFP process not going to help yield the best possible outcomes? Well, that depends on how you define "best," "possible," and "outcomes." Presumably in the WMF's case, "best" means "most likely to divert Foundation money to friends of Foundation employees." Meanwhile, "possible" means "whatever we can get away with." And, of course, "outcomes" means "the money's coming out, grab with both hands and bring your wheelbarrow!" (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)
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