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_ News Worth Discussing _ Wikipedia check book balanced by convicted felon - Register
Posted by: Newsfeed
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/13/wikimedia_coo_convicted_felon/&cid=0&ei=f8RhR92CD5WoygSQrOnoCQ
Register, UK -19 minutes ago
By Cade Metz in San Francisco → More by this author Exclusive For more than six months, beginning in January of this year, Wikipedia's million-dollar check ...
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/13/wikimedia_coo_convicted_felon/&cid=0&ei=f8RhR92CD5WoygSQrOnoCQ
Posted by: Moulton
More unfavorable reporting by Cade Metz. They prolly hate this guy bigtime by now.
Posted by: jorge
Woops
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
Woops
Wow. I think that might to go down as an audit exception under "verification and financial controls." Godwin's response is shoving his index fingers in his ear and yelling "lah, lah, lah...I can't hear you." Unless Metz has made a serious factual error, which does not seem like his style, Godwin's response is only going to indicate a lack of due diligence and make him a target for the larger press.
Posted by: Moulton
This has got to be a nightmare for Godwin, defending Wikimedia after spending all those years at the Electronic Frontier Foundation.
It would be like leaving the American Civil Liberties Union to take a job at the CIA.
Posted by: Alkivar
5$ says someone will be suing that temp agency for them sending Carolyn to WMF in the first place...
we know pass the buck is par for the course.
DUI x4
Check Fraud
Petty Larceny x2
Assault with a deadly weapon
Manslaughter
Probation violations including leaving the country
but seriously... she was in THE WASHINGTON POST for shooting her boyfriend...
she wont even pass a google test, let alone a background check...
so its clear one was never performed.
hell i'm no angel (i've got a felony conviction)...
but i'm also not handling the books for around $400,000 for my profession...
this wont be blowing over anytime soon.
PS digg this up: http://digg.com/world_news/Wikipedia_COO_was_convicted_felon
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
Banned users may not edit. Their only alternative is to use OTRS. They should first forward a fifth of expensive bourbon to the Office, along with $100 cash for cab fares home, or their request will not be considered. In fact, it most likely won't be considered even after they do this.
San Francisco is going to be fun...
I found both of these by searching for "carolyn bothwell" in Google. If you knew her age and that she lived in Virginia at the time, it would have been a no-brainer to discover this through due diligence. There are only 21 hits total in Google if the name is inside quotation marks.
http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0864964.txt
http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1111959.html
The Washington Post, February 22, 1990
by DeNeen L. Brown
As he lay in bed in their Herndon town house, she walked up to him, stood no more than three feet away, pointed a .357 magnum at him and pulled the trigger, according to court testimony.
The bullet cut through his chest and his back, lodging in a pillow. "I damn near died," Philip L. Brown, 47, said in an interview yesterday about the Aug. 25 shooting. "They flew me code blue to the trauma center."
Carolyn Bothwell, 27, his girlfriend of eight years, was charged with malicious wounding and use of a firearm. A day after she was indicted, Brown wrote a letter to Assistant Commonwealth's ...
The question is, "Why does The Register have to do this, and will it now be considered a BADSITE by Wikipedia?"
Is it "wikistalking" or is it "due diligence"? Only your unfriendly cabalist knows for sure, and he won't tell you.
Posted by: thekohser
Note that in http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-September/081166.html from Flo-Flo (who is living in my house, recall), it's obvious she knew what was going on. And, in the final paragraph, she segues into a discussion of replacing the Treasurer, Michael E. Davis.
I will be releasing a blog post soon, with a detailed analysis of his own history in court (including a contempt of court charge). The facts do not portray Davis in a good light. It won't stack up to this new Register piece, but it will be another nail in the coffin of Wikimedia Foundation leadership.
Greg
Posted by: Saltimbanco
Well, I hope Ms. Doran can get her life together.
Has Jimbo Wales ever done anything to suggest that he might be a good judge of character? Ever?
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
Well, I hope Ms. Doran can get her life together.
Has Jimbo Wales ever done anything to suggest that he might be a good judge of character? Ever?
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
Note that in http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/htdig/wikien-l/2007-September/081166.html from Flo-Flo (who is living in my house, recall), it's obvious she knew what was going on. And, in the final paragraph, she segues into a discussion of replacing the Treasurer, Michael E. Davis.
I will be releasing a blog post soon, with a detailed analysis of his own history in court (including a contempt of court charge). The facts do not portray Davis in a good light. It won't stack up to this new Register piece, but it will be another nail in the coffin of Wikimedia Foundation leadership.
Greg
It seems likely from the wikien-l post that Flo knew. So the question is: Did they not tell Godwin or did he lie to Metz? Either way it is interesting and implication laden.
Posted by: thekohser
Wait a minute. http://news.google.com/archivesearch?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS231US231&q=Carolyn+Bothwell+Doran&um=1&tab=wn.
Am I correctly reading that Carolyn Bothwell shot her boyfriend in the chest in 1990, then in 1999 her husband drowned in the Cayman Islands while on their honeymoon?
Not trying to play forensic psychologist here -- I'm just confirming that these two points are facts?
Greg
Posted by: Jonny Cache
Godwin also said that he and the Foundation are still unaware of Doran's criminal record: "We've never had any documentation of any criminal record on Carolyn Doran's part at all", he told us. "As far as I'm concerned, I have no direct knowledge of [her criminal record] yet … We have, in our records, no evidence of any such thing."
I'm guessing it was just an oversight.
Jonny
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
Wait a minute. http://news.google.com/archivesearch?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGIH_enUS231US231&q=Carolyn+Bothwell+Doran&um=1&tab=wn.
Am I correctly reading that Carolyn Bothwell shot her boyfriend in the chest in 1990, then in 1999 her husband drowned in the Cayman Islands while on their honeymoon?
Not trying to play forensic psychologist here -- I'm just confirming that these two points are facts?
Greg
Yes, it looks like the same Carolyn. The Washington Times snippet right below that one in your Google search says, "Doran is predeceased by his father, William T. Doran. He is survived by his wife, Carolyn, and a stepson, Philip Bothwell, both of Potomac Falls; ... " The Post piece linked in the Register article says, "She said she did not want to risk losing custody of her 3-year-old son." So if the Carolyn we're talking about has a son named Philip Bothwell, now about 21 years old, then it must be the same one. Potomac Falls MD is only about 15 miles from Herndon VA, and the time difference is nine years.
Oops, sorry, I'm wikistalking again... I'm a BADBOY.
Posted by: Somey
Frankly, I doubt the Wikimedia Foundation would have cared if they had known that Doran was a convicted felon who had been involved in a shooting incident.
It just stands to reason that if you open up a website, along with the structures built to support it, to the entire world with no background checks, no verifiable identities, and no accountability, you're going to get some people with criminal records - along with a wide variety of other people with, shall we say, interesting stories.
And while I know full well that fetishism is no crime (in most states), let's not forget that the WMF's current spokesman, Cary "Bastique" Bass, is a former (or who knows, maybe current?) treasurer of the http://www.secclubs.org/ - or more specifically, Leather Clubs. Don't bother clicking on the link unless you're over 18!
Posted by: Aloft
Posted by: WordBomb
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/13/wikimedia_coo_convicted_felon/&cid=0&ei=f8RhR92CD5WoygSQrOnoCQ
Register, UK -19 minutes ago
By Cade Metz in San Francisco → More by this author Exclusive For more than six months, beginning in January of this year, Wikipedia's million-dollar check ...
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/13/wikimedia_coo_convicted_felon/&cid=0&ei=f8RhR92CD5WoygSQrOnoCQ
Posted by: Jonny Cache
Caption Contest — We Have A Wiener !!!
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087330.html?
Warning — The Attorney General has determined that AGF can be dangerous to your wealth.
Jonny
Posted by: Saltimbanco
I wonder what she brought to the table when she was interviewing?
[imgx]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/1/16/Cd2.jpg[/imgx]
(Should this be merged with the JustTitsGuy list thread?)(It would have been funnier had the image come up correctly. Try http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Cd2.jpg and imagine the timing and setup flowed better.)
(Fixed by Uncle Somey)
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/13/wikimedia_coo_convicted_felon/&cid=0&ei=f8RhR92CD5WoygSQrOnoCQ
Register, UK -19 minutes ago
By Cade Metz in San Francisco → More by this author Exclusive For more than six months, beginning in January of this year, Wikipedia's million-dollar check ...
http://news.google.com/news/url?sa=T&ct=us/0-0&fd=R&url=http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/13/wikimedia_coo_convicted_felon/&cid=0&ei=f8RhR92CD5WoygSQrOnoCQ
Maybe. She sounds pretty badassed. Maybe she scared them. So do you think they told Godwin and Gardner?
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
Maybe the person who hired her, or one or two others after she was innocently hired, knew more than others did in the office. They could have leveraged this into extra-fat expense-account reimbursements. I'd say Godwin should either insist on an internal review of this situation, or resign to protect his good name.
Posted by: Jonny Cache
Caption Contest — We Have A Wiener !!!
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087330.html?
Warning !!! The Attorney General has determined that AGF can be dangerous to your wealth.
Jonny
Or maybe this one —
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087324.html.
Jonny
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
Contest: Who can come up with the most absurd and/or funniest apologetic one-liner from a cabalista over this scandal? The winner gets an expense-paid trip to San Francisco to work as a temp in the new office. My entry is a quote from Ray Saintonge:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087334.html
Posted by: tarantino
Frankly, I doubt the Wikimedia Foundation would have cared if they had known that Doran was a convicted felon who had been involved in a shooting incident.
It just stands to reason that if you open up a website, along with the structures built to support it, to the entire world with no background checks, no verifiable identities, and no accountability, you're going to get some people with criminal records - along with a wide variety of other people with, shall we say, interesting stories.
And while I know full well that fetishism is no crime (in most states), let's not forget that the WMF's current spokesman, Cary "Bastique" Bass, is a former (or who knows, maybe current?) treasurer of the http://www.secclubs.org/ - or more specifically, Leather Clubs. Don't bother clicking on the link unless you're over 18!
It's unlikely they ever ran a background on Cary, either.
While looking through FeloniousMonk's edits, I ran across his http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Deodar&diff=prev&oldid=74464218 for filing a checkuser request against SlimVirgin. Deodar was concerned no one person could edit for 27 hours straight.
Cary posits an alternate explanation, prior to TM's warning-
The RFCU was subsequently http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log/delete&page=Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/Case/SlimVirgin because it was "vexatious".
Posted by: Jonny Cache
I wonder what she brought to the table when she was interviewing?
And here I was guessing a .357 Magnum …
Jonny
Posted by: Castle Rock
Here's mine Daniel
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087345.html
Based on who appears to be feeding information to Metz, he has sources
that have falsified information before both for press and community
attacks on Wikipedia before.
This is not an indication that the particular information is wrong.
But one should be wary, and fact check.
Posted by: Somey
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087328.html
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/date.html
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087332.html
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087345.html
Posted by: Derktar
Extended quote by saintonge at telus.net (the one Mr. Brandt linked above):
organization will get these people from time to time, and unless she did
real direct damage to WMF while she was working why should this be
treated as such a big problem? It's disappointing that she didn't get
the financial statements put together before she went to her secure
government employment, but we should avoid obsessing over the problem.
The obsessing can be more damaging than the original problem.
Ec
Yeah hiring convicted felons into senior positions isn't a problem whatsoever. This kind of stuff happens everyday after all.
Posted by: WordBomb
Contest: Who can come up with the most absurd and/or funniest apologetic one-liner from a cabalista over this scandal? The winner gets an expense-paid trip to San Francisco to work as a temp in the new office.
Yes, George "Android Dungeon" Herbert is a real prince. I've emailed twice asking him to back up a public claim that I've not told the truth on AntiSocialMedia.net but have been twice ignored. It's nice to have tidbits like this one to put the rest of his blah blah in context.
EDIT: Garbage! Castle Rock beat me with the same reference by four minutes. Well I'm willing to job-share with you CR, if our entry ends up winning.
Posted by: Alkivar
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/shdoran.htm
her deceased husband was Air Force.
"He had served in the Air Force for 18 years, working in the field of weapons development and evaluation. In addition to stations in Florida, he served with the U.S. On-Site Inspection Team in Russia in support of the SALT agreements. He had served in the Washington area for the past five years and transferred to MIMA last year after being with the Central Intelligence Agency."
so his drowning death got her survivor's benefits for an 18-year veteran....
jumping to conclusions is ok in my book... theres certainly enough fishy shit going on.
the more scrutiny I put on wikipedia... the more the CIA appears tangentially... creepy.
PS: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Chief_Operating_Officer_of_Wikimedia_Foundation_was_convicted_felon
Posted by: Jonny Cache
Contest: Who can come up with the most absurd and/or funniest apologetic one-liner from a cabalista over this scandal? The winner gets an expense-paid trip to San Francisco to work as a temp in the new office.
You can all quit playing. [url=http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087345.html]
I have the winner[/url]. That putz George Herbert takes it hands down:
Based on who appears to be feeding information to Metz, he has sources that have falsified information before both for press and community attacks on Wikipedia before.
(This message brought to you by the National Redundancy Association of Redundancy)
Yes, George "Android Dungeon" Herbert is a real prince. I've emailed twice asking him to back up a public claim that I've not told the truth on AntiSocialMedia.net but have been twice ignored. It's nice to have tidbits like this one to put the rest of his blah blah in context.
EDIT: Garbage! Castle Rock beat me with the same reference by four minutes. Well I'm willing to job-share with you CR, if our entry ends up winning.
There was once a Wikipedia Bio on GWH, who is notable for his Wiki-Platitudes, but it got deleted, 'cause you know what a status symbol it is these days to have a Deleted Wikipedia Bio, but I think we have an old copy of it in the Articles forum.
Yup, here it is —
George William Herbert
Jonny
Posted by: Piperdown
word, they'd rather call you a liar and give you *crickets*, 'cuz the wikikids believe everything the respected admins tell them, and pretend that the wikikiddies aren't going to ASM and checking it all out for themselves...then shutting up so they don't lose their accounts.
DB's crazy, WB's odious, Byrne's whacky, Gary's a critic, Slimmy's a victim, Durova they're not so sure anymore, Jayjg's a ...wait, who? we don't know nobody here by that name..., etc
So now this Carolyn scandal can't be referenced in WP anywhere. Cuz The Register UK is a bad BADSITE. Although lil 'GW and his stuntcat Sami had no problem with El Reg when they could use it to diss Grandmaster Byrne.
Byrne owned Wales on his own talk page. Owned. LOL.
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087330.html?
She was the organization's COO during a period of time it lacked an Executive Director. Which would make it seem like she was in charge of day to day operations. Not exactly a receptionist.
Maybe all of those fancy corporate acronyms (ED, COO, GC, GK) are just, you know, pseudonyms to stop harassment from, you know, stalkers and abusers, like those in the law enforcement communities of Maryland, Texas and Virgina. After all this was the point of Essjays phony PhDs. Just to throw them off the trail.
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
It might be time to entertain A Wacky Conspiracy Theory.
Factoid 1: At least two key people were hired in the Office who had, shall we say, résumés that meant they were not in a position to play whistleblower. I'm referring to Carolyn Doran and Cary Bass.
Factoid 2: There were massive amounts of travelling to silly meetings where they had nothing to discuss, with expenses paid. The reason they don't have anything to discuss is because they've been trying very hard to pretend that they aren't responsible for the content on Wikipedia.
Factoid 3: Brad and Danny resigned abruptly around nine months ago.
Factoid 4: I have heard stories, supposedly originating from one of the two above who resigned (I better not say which one), that there was funny business going on with the budget and expense accounts.
Factoid 5: Michael Davis is also not in a position to play whistleblower convincingly because of his own history of legal problems. These derived from alleged financial improprieties during his Chicago options-trading days.
Factoid 6: Tim Shell (CEO of Bomis) resigned from the Board one year ago.
Factoid 7: Davis and Shell are Jimbo cronies from the old days. Jimbo loves going around shmoozing with The Beautiful People, and doesn't have sufficient moral fiber to blow the whistle on anything — as long as he's having a good time.
Add all this up and what do you get? I dunno, but you'd be smarter to send your tax-deductible donation to help a kid in Latin America, rather than sending it to the Wikimedia Foundation. Maybe the kid will grow up without a Wikipedia-preinstalled laptop and become a responsible, productive citizen.
Posted by: Castle Rock
I think I have a winner, this pretty much blows all of the others away.
His muck-raking is beneath contempt. Did you steal Cade Metz's wife or something, Jimbo? Rockpocket 05:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Some people just don't get it.
Posted by: Derktar
I think I have a winner, this pretty much blows all of the others away.
His muck-raking is beneath contempt. Did you steal Cade Metz's wife or something, Jimbo? Rockpocket 05:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Some people just don't get it.
There's the endorsement Jimbo needs to adopt a Wikipedia ex-con work program!
Oh and nice one Jimbo:
of any criminal record on Carolyn Doran's part at all." There was no
question of the board "disclosing" information that we did not have.
So they're either incompetent or corrupt...or both...that should help the fund raiser.
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/shdoran.htm
her deceased husband was Air Force.
"He had served in the Air Force for 18 years, working in the field of weapons development and evaluation. In addition to stations in Florida, he served with the U.S. On-Site Inspection Team in Russia in support of the SALT agreements. He had served in the Washington area for the past five years and transferred to MIMA last year after being with the Central Intelligence Agency."
so his drowning death got her survivor's benefits for an 18-year veteran....
jumping to conclusions is ok in my book... theres certainly enough fishy shit going on.
the more scrutiny I put on wikipedia... the more the CIA appears tangentially... creepy.
PS: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Chief_Operating_Officer_of_Wikimedia_Foundation_was_convicted_felon
Dammit, Alkivar, I really didn't want to bring this up because it's too late and too spooky. But you've forced my hand. I sincerely hope there's nothing to it. The http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0864964.txt I cited in this thread refers to an "Investigator Robinette" and I cannot find a first name for Robinette on that page. I understand that Glenn Robinette became a private investigator in that neck of the woods. He's also a CIA veteran. NameBase played a http://www.namebase.org/ollie.html in exposing him to the media back in 1986, during the Iran/contra mess.
Is the "Investigator Robinette" one and the same as Glenn Robinette — another CIA veteran?
Of course, those nitwits in the cabal will claim that the CIA doesn't use people with "checkered" histories. They haven't studied the CIA for 40 years like I have.
Posted by: Piperdown
derktar, WMF apparently as a "Don't ask, Don't Felony" hiring policy. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
If WMF was a publicly traded stock, Jimbo's old chums at the Chicago Exchange would have enabled some hedge funds to short more shares than available through options market maker exemptions, journalists who have previous business relationships and common CV intersections with those fund managers would be writing negative articles on it fortnightly. Some of them would even be spreading the bad cheers on the nets and the wikis.
Perhaps WMF shouldn't bang the gavel on a NY Stock Exchange debut any time soon.
Posted by: thekohser
One of the great things about another of the Wikimedia Foundation's famous projects, Wikinews, is that news can be reported, literally at the same time it is breaking. In other words, through the miracle of social collaboration, http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Chief_Operating_Officer_of_Wikimedia_Foundation_was_convicted_felon.
Greg
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
Mike Godwin is in Cover Your Ass mode.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036007.html
And that is pretty much all I'm going to say on this list about the Register story or its subject matter.
Yeah, find the person who gave the message to the messenger, and kill him! That'll work!
This just in: Jimmy Wales appoints Carolyn Doran to ArbCom!
I'm kidding
Posted by: thekohser
For posterity's sake, I have made a couple of WebSite preservations of Carolyn's WMF user page and history page. I have a feeling that Jimbo & Co. will be taking them down in the next 12 hours.
Carolyn Doran User page:
http://www.webcitation.org/5U4cD8PrK
Note the highly ironic statement she made on her User page:
I strongly urge all Wikipedians to support us by donating throughout the year.
I guess it depends on what's meant by the word "us".
Carolyn Doran User page history:
http://www.webcitation.org/5U4cov7hK
Note the prophetic edit comment from User:EVula --
Protected User:Carolyn-WMF: I've got a *really* bad feeling about this page...
There. Now we have a snapshot of how these pages looked on the night it was exposed. I wonder if they'll disappear, and how soon?
Greg
Posted by: Piperdown
Mike Godwin is in Cover Your Ass mode.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036007.html
And that is pretty much all I'm going to say on this list about the Register story or its subject matter.
Yeah, find the person who gave the message to the messenger, and kill him! That'll work!
you see, the adults at WP don't think that their "kids", aka Wikpedians, know how to use Google.
on this Assume No Googling, they're able to pull off pretty much any WP Justice they want. BADSITES was a Google Search short-circuit, as WP'ians do know how to click on links on talk pages and articles, so it was a necessary addendum to "thou shalt not Google, or let anyone know what you find if you do".
Perhaps Metz did something that WMF didn't bother to do: Google the people they are about to hire.
Posted by: thekohser
Yup, and Nathan Awrich's wiki career is http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036008.html.
Fri Dec 14 05:15:40 UTC 2007
Previous message: [Foundation-l] Foundation Discretion Regarding Personnel Matters
Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No disrespect intended, and I hope and believe that you and the Board
work with the interests of the organization foremost in your mind. I
do disagree, however, with the judgment seemingly displayed on this
issue. It seems as though it would have benefited the organization to
have simply stated at the time of separation between WMF and Ms. Doran
that there were personnel issues which the Board was bound to
disclose.
Additionally, a heads up about imminent disclosure would also have
been in order given the fact that you consented to an interview with
the Register (of all publications) and presumably were aware that the
story would be published. At this point, the appearance is that the
Board withheld information from the community about a material failure
of due diligence in hiring - and then commented publicly to a
glorified newsblog known to attack Wikipedia without providing the
community fair warning of yet another assault on our credibility.
Now, I may be reading the situation in exactly the wrong way - but I
would like a more elaborate description of why this might be so, and I
imagine I am not alone. There are still many unknowns regarding the
truth here, and the Foundation can only benefit from providing
clarity. If the WMF is unable to comment any further because of
continuing legal constraints (which is completely possible) that too
would be pertinent information. If you intended to convey this in your
response below, it isn't clear to me.
Nathan
Posted by: Rootology
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/12/13/wikimedia_coo_convicted_felon/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carolyn_Doran
Wow.
And deleted. Good.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=&page=Carolyn+Doran
Posted by: Alkivar
wow this woman is a fucking black widow... check this "coincidence"
--------------
She was also the roommate of a woman who poisoned a man in 1994 to get his life insurance money, and the jury heard testimony that she was an indirect accomplice to it. http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/washingtonpost/access/19410076.html?dids=19410076:19410076&FMT=ABS&FMTS=ABS:FT&date=Sep+15%2C+1995&author=Rajiv+Chandrasekaran&pub=The+Washington+Post+(pre-1997+Fulltext)&edition=&startpage=B.03&desc=Jury+Hears+Woman%2C+33%2C+Scream+At+Man%2C+65%2C+Over+Life+Insurance, but does not mention her name. By request, I can e-mail anyone who wants the full copy (which does mention her name). Also, if anyone has LexisNexis, they can easily get the copy themselves. TheCustomOfLife 05:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
I've excerpted the part that has to do with Carolyn.
A former roommate of Betancourt's, Sterling resident Carolyn Bothwell, testified yesterday that Betancourt told her in July 1994 that Montague "won't be around in September to worry about."
Betancourt's attorney, Gregory Harris, suggested that his client meant that she would be breaking off her relationship with Montague, not that "Cassie was going to do him in."
The tapes were recorded at the home of Bothwell, who is a neighbor of Montague's daughter, Janet Hall. Betancourt lived with Bothwell for three months in the spring of 1994.
Bothwell testified that she bought a recording device and put it on her telephone to capture threatening phone calls from her former common-law husband. She said Betancourt was with her when she bought the device. Bothwell said she gave the tapes to investigators after she found out about Montague's death.
Harris suggested that Bothwell, who has a pending credit card forgery case in Loudoun, was trying to curry favor with prosecutors with her testimony. Bothwell denied that. "I had enough to lose coming up here," she said. "I had nothing to gain." TheCustomOfLife 05:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
--------------
so shoots guy in 1990...
is roomates with someone who poisoned a man for life insurance money in 1994...
then has a husband drown in suspicious circumstances in 1999...
yeah the "accidental drowning" is looking less and less accidental to me
Posted by: Moulton
Godwin tends to choose his words very carefully.
Assuming that someone in the office (besides Doran herself) knew of her record, one has to consider the possibility that any such documentation in the files was surreptitiously removed to keep Godwin and others in the dark. If so, Godwin's sound bite makes it clear that he found no such records in the files when he arrived at WMF last July, even though he appears to leave open the possibility that he'd heard the scuttlebut.
Given the amount of redaction and oversighting that goes on routinely on Wikipedia, it's not a leap to imagine the practice extended to the files in the office, too.
Posted by: the fieryangel
Since nobody's brought this up, did anyone else find this part of Floflo's little foundation-L response that Greg's posted a bit...telling??:
treasurer since our current one (Michael) would like to move on. We may
not do a BIG announcement about that. Before you start reflecting on bad
hidden dark secrets, there is no secret. Michael has been on the board
nearly 4 years. He does not have time any more for it. He is very busy
with Wikia. He is part time working on west coast whilst his home is on
the east coast. He indicated as early as end of 2006 that he would be
ready to move out as soon as we found a good replacement. Recently, he
urged me to start actively looking for a treasurer, as he feels we now
have a staff in place allowing this change. No big deal. Just a person
who want to move on :-)
So, cause and effect? Did Michael know something that he didn't want to be part of? There is no "treasurer" listed in the current http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Board_of_Trustees and Michael Davis' term expires this month....
Posted by: Moulton
What did the office staff know, and when did they know it?
Posted by: the fieryangel
What did the office staff know, and when did they know it?
Here's her http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Carolyn-WMF where she was threatened with blocking....In this interesting edit, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikimedia_Foundation&diff=prev&oldid=100891233although she didn't leave until July? She made http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Carolyn-WMF
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Carolyn-WMF&diff=177801244&oldid=145381180
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
I wonder if this is her son. The age is about right.
http://www.runwashington.com/news/feb04trackmeet.html
Philip Bothwell, age 17 (as of early 2004), Sterling, Virginia
Posted by: Moulton
With so many skeletons rattling in the office closets, one might be tempted to nominate Jimbo as the Dark Knight of the Living Dead.
Posted by: the fieryangel
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=prev&oldid=177835392
Yup, you're running a not for profit and the woman who does your book is found to be a convicted felon, your audit is months behind and you don't have to money to cover your operating expenses...and this is not of much consequence?
The mind reels...
Posted by: Moulton
What did Jimbo know, and when did he forget it?
Posted by: the fieryangel
What did Jimbo know, and when did he forget it?
It looks like she had a sockpuppet at one point :
I can't find the history of that User and think that it's probably been "whiped". Can anybody check a datadump and see if anything interesting turns up?
Posted by: Moulton
Scroll through a http://www.google.com/search?q=seand59.
Meanwhile, here is her http://www.linkedin.com/pub/3/B50/523...
Carolyn Doran’s Summary
Wikimedia Foundation is a non-profit organization promoting the development and distribution of free, multilingual content most notably the online encyclopedia, Wikipedia.
Responsible for the performance of the Wikimedia business as dictated by the overall strategy agreed by the board and for maintaining an ongoing dialogue with the ED. Build and lead an effective and cohesive executive management team with effective succession planning.
Represent Wikimedia to the City , government, regulatory authorities, media and general public. Manage the creation of an appropriate vision and long-term strategy for Wikimedia to be agreed by the board.
Develop and implement strategic operating plans and central functions that reflect the longer-term objectives and priorities of the board. Take remedial action where necessary and inform the board of any significant changes.
Ensure that Wikimedia comply with all applicable legal and regulatory requirements.
Liaise with the board on the operation of Wikimedia. Ensure that a system is in place for effective communication with the executive team and other employees.
Responsible for overall dealings with Wikimedia staff and their appointments.
Posted by: the fieryangel
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/electric/20071214/ttc-wikipedia-coo-was-convicted-felon-70a53e7_1.html This is on the wire services and is going to get wide, mainstream coverage....
Posted by: jorge
Dammit, Alkivar, I really didn't want to bring this up because it's too late and too spooky. But you've forced my hand. I sincerely hope there's nothing to it. The http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0864964.txt I cited in this thread refers to an "Investigator Robinette" and I cannot find a first name for Robinette on that page. I understand that Glenn Robinette became a private investigator in that neck of the woods. He's also a CIA veteran. NameBase played a http://www.namebase.org/ollie.html in exposing him to the media back in 1986, during the Iran/contra mess.
Is the "Investigator Robinette" one and the same as Glenn Robinette — another CIA veteran?
Of course, those nitwits in the cabal will claim that the CIA doesn't use people with "checkered" histories. They haven't studied the CIA for 40 years like I have.
Let's not forget that Linda Mack aka SlimVirgin was said to have "hung out with CIA types" in the 1990s.
Posted by: the fieryangel
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036017.html
Register was fully discussed internally. Part of the problem here, I
think, is that you are presuming we knew enough about what the
Register was going to write to provide you with adequate information
to respond to the story. I believe, for various reasons, that this
was not the case. Please believe me when I say that I prefer to
disclose pretty much everything, and that I prefer that responses to
attacks of this sort come from the community in general rather than
from me in particular.
So, I think that this article caught them completely by surprise and they don't know what to do....
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
Godwin tends to choose his words very carefully.
Assuming that someone in the office (besides Doran herself) knew of her record, one has to consider the possibility that any such documentation in the files was surreptitiously removed to keep Godwin and others in the dark. If so, Godwin's sound bite makes it clear that he found no such records in the files when he arrived at WMF last July, even though he appears to leave open the possibility that he'd heard the scuttlebut.
Given the amount of redaction and oversighting that goes on routinely on Wikipedia, it's not a leap to imagine the practice extended to the files in the office, too.
Bullshit. Godwin's a go-to-conference type elite lawyer. Not a hardened trial lawyer. A trial lawyer would know it is fine not to comment, but lying to a journalist or playing so cute with the truth that it amounts to the same thing, is a very bad idea that can only come back to haunt your client.
Posted by: Moulton
There may well be a few more skeletons in the office closet.
It's been suggested that other former office staffers may be putting Cade Metz onto the trail of these skeletons. If there was a cover-up, and if some staffers had no choice but to leave if they didn't want to be part of the cover-up, then it's quite plausible that WMF cannot anticipate what bones will be unearthed in any given article.
Posted by: WordBomb
In case it's not obvious...Seand59 was likely the username of her late husband prior to his untimely passing (Sean Doran was born in 1959).
Posted by: the fieryangel
In case it's not obvious...Seand59 was likely the username of her late husband prior to his untimely passing (Sean Doran was born in 1959).
Yes but according to http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/shdoran.htm he died in 1999. What's she doing using his name for a sock account?
Posted by: thekohser
In case it's not obvious...Seand59 was likely the username of her late husband prior to his untimely passing (Sean Doran was born in 1959).
Yes but according to http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/shdoran.htm he died in 1999. What's she doing using his name for a sock account?
One would say "honoring his memory".
Posted by: the fieryangel
In case it's not obvious...Seand59 was likely the username of her late husband prior to his untimely passing (Sean Doran was born in 1959).
Yes but according to http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/shdoran.htm he died in 1999. What's she doing using his name for a sock account?
One would say "honoring his memory".
Yes, you could say that, especially in the AGF Wikiworld....
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=177877871&oldid=177876848
From Moreschi, of all people:
The really amazing thing is that nobody from WMF seems to have known. I remember obliquely quizzing Anthere about this on IRC one merry evening - she either genuinely did not know what had happened or she lied through her teeth to me. What was passing through her mind, I don't know. Someone must have known though...Sue Gardner? She basically seems to have got Carolyn's job. The jail records are pretty much all available on the web, though...hell, I've even got them still bookmarked AFAIK. Cheers, [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] <sup> [[User:Moreschi/If|If you've written a quality article...]]</sup> 14:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Posted by: anthony
The really amazing thing is that nobody from WMF seems to have known. I remember obliquely quizzing Anthere about this on IRC one merry evening - she either genuinely did not know what had happened or she lied through her teeth to me. What was passing through her mind, I don't know. Someone must have known though...Sue Gardner? She basically seems to have got Carolyn's job. The jail records are pretty much all available on the web, though...hell, I've even got them still bookmarked AFAIK. Cheers, [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] <sup> [[User:Moreschi/If|If you've written a quality article...]]</sup> 14:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
The WMF and Carolyn signed a confidentiality agreement around the time of her departure, so they must have known *something*. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-September/081166.html
Posted by: Moulton
That goes a long way toward explaining why Godwin kept saying there were legal constraints regarding what he could say on the subject.
Posted by: the fieryangel
The WMF and Carolyn signed a confidentiality agreement around the time of her departure, so they must have known *something*.
This is something that I can't figure out. A "confidentiality agreement" is generally forced upon the departing employee to protect the company, not the other way around.
If they had known about this, they would have had more than enough grounds to fire her.
If they signed an agreement with her, they must have had motivation to do so. Did they agree to sign this so that....she wouldn't talk about something in exchange for them not talking about her?
We don't have all of the pieces yet, but there's obviously something else going on...
Posted by: Moulton
Given the number of skeletons that have already come tumbling out of Fibber McGee's Closet, this seems to be a plausible suspicion.
Posted by: anthony
The WMF and Carolyn signed a confidentiality agreement around the time of her departure, so they must have known *something*.
This is something that I can't figure out. A "confidentiality agreement" is generally forced upon the departing employee to protect the company, not the other way around.
If they had known about this, they would have had more than enough grounds to fire her.
I agree, it doesn't fit, but there are lots of possibilities. They may have known part of the story, but not all of it. Or maybe she lied to them about the reasons she was leaving. I mean, she had to resign when she found out she had a warrant out for her arrest.
If they signed an agreement with her, they must have had motivation to do so. Did they agree to sign this so that....she wouldn't talk about something in exchange for them not talking about her?
We don't have all of the pieces yet, but there's obviously something else going on...
The WMF's financial situation has been screwed up for years. There's definitely a lot going on. I'm not yet convinced this Carolyn Doran thing is even all that seriously related, except in the sense that the WMF board of directors are completely inept when it comes to picking leaders.
Posted by: KStreetSlave
Moreschi is full of shit that he "knew about this for yonks". Considering he doesn't even know why she left sounds like self-inflating puffery to me.
Posted by: the fieryangel
The WMF's financial situation has been screwed up for years. There's definitely a lot going on. I'm not yet convinced this Carolyn Doran thing is even all that seriously related, except in the sense that the WMF board of directors are completely inept when it comes to picking leaders.
This situation makes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Signpost/2007-11-19/Anthere_interview in the November Wikisignpost interview seem...awfully provocative:
FD: The audit officially began on September 17, 2007. It is expected to be finished by the end of the calendar year (hopefully).
The audit is being conducted by a St. Petersburg firm called Gregory Sharer and Stuart. This is the same firm that conducted our ‘first-three-years’ audit report that was published last year.
On the Wikimedia side, the people involved are Oleta McHenry, preparing the books on behalf of the Foundation. Mona Venkateswaran, a financial consultant to the Foundation and a former auditor, is providing oversight and guidance to Oleta. Various others are helping Oleta by providing information and/or supporting documentation. We are also now actively looking for a new treasurer.
It is hard to plan completion date. It depends on the size of the organization, number of transactions, inherent risk in the audit work, and overall complexity of performing audit procedures. It’s fairly normal for audits to take longer to complete than was initially predicted. The Foundation’s projects (and their popularity) grew significantly over the past year, which meant that spending (number of transactions) increased. So there is more work to be done. Also, there has been some turnover in Foundation staff (e.g., the accountant), which has resulted in some loss of institutional memory that makes it harder to do the audit preparation. So it isn’t really all that surprising that the audit is fairly time-consuming.
It should not take nearly as long as this to do a yearly audit. There are obviously problems...
Here is http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Finance_report
Posted by: the fieryangel
It looks as if this Mona Venkateswaran person was brought in by Sue G from the CBC, if this is indeed her http://www.linkedin.com/pub/3/A82/096
That would make sense to me. It looks as if the books are a real mess, though...
Here's the http://www.gsscpa.com/
They look pretty legit to me, with just a couple of incidents in the local SP press.
Posted by: WordBomb
This is interesting...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/c/ce/WMF_2006_Form_990.pdf, which every 501c must file with the IRS (which is the least they can do since they don't pay taxes).
Go to page 8, where you'll see that Carolyn Doran signed it on behalf of the WMF on 3/23/07.
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-March/028404.html.
http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Current_staff&diff=prev&oldid=19933.
Posted by: Moulton
That is troubling, as it reinforces the suspicion that they bailed to avoid being complicit in an irregularity that they were powerless to arrest.
Internet Education and Teaching
Hrmm. That's my personal objective, too. And something I've been doing for the past 17 years.
And yet the powers-that-be on Wikipedia summarily declared that my objectives were anathema to the project.
Harrumph.
Posted by: Rootology
Someone needs to do a timeline post about all this, that has the patience to go through it. It might illuminate more on the matter.
Posted by: anthony
That is troubling, as it reinforces the suspicion that they bailed to avoid being complicit in an irregularity that they were powerless to arrest.
It's also possible that one or both of them were asked to resign.
Posted by: Moulton
It wouldn't surprise me if there were differences over organizational values or practices that boiled down to an old-fashioned power struggle.
Usually in such cases, the less ethical faction kicks out the more ethical faction.
Posted by: Alkivar
It looks like she had a sockpuppet at one point :
I can't find the history of that User and think that it's probably been "whiped". Can anybody check a datadump and see if anything interesting turns up?
not a sockpuppet.
I remember this clearly. the Seand59 was a personal account, when she got officially hired her user name was changed so as to make her official ala danny and danny-office accounts.
That is troubling, as it reinforces the suspicion that they bailed to avoid being complicit in an irregularity that they were powerless to arrest.
It's also possible that one or both of them were asked to resign.
Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo.
Posted by: Moulton
Can you dispel the suspicion that there are any irregularities in the preparation of the Form 990, and that it would stand up just fine to an IRS review?
Posted by: Alkivar
Can you dispel the suspicion that there are any irregularities in the preparation of the Form 990, and that it would stand up just fine to an IRS review?
I'll ask him to comment... but I think he'll probably refuse to go on the record with regards to that.
Posted by: Piperdown
the GodKing loyal subjects are getting restless. see jimbo talk page today
Posted by: BobbyBombastic
Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo.
I'm sure you would know better than I, as I've never had a conversation with Danny, but when he ran for the board I seem to remember him being very pissed off about what money was being spent on and how it was being spent. If he didn't resign specifically because of information he knew about Carolyn, then it follows that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Perhaps Jimbo is right when he says (comically) this is "not of much consequence". Perhaps things very much of consequence are in the future!
What I'm saying is, resigning because you know of Carolyn's past and the duties entrusted to her is a pretty good reason to resign. If Danny did not resign because of this, then what the hell else is going on?
Ask Cade Metz, I guess...
the GodKing loyal subjects are getting restless. see jimbo talk page today
Ever notice whenever there is a WP scandal, there always seems to be a guy like Rocketpocket around that appears to have the mentally of a 12 year old? Seriously, it happens every time! Check all the recent scandals, there is always a guy like that around.
Posted by: anthony
Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo.
I'm sure you would know better than I, as I've never had a conversation with Danny, but when he ran for the board I seem to remember him being very pissed off about what money was being spent on and how it was being spent. If he didn't resign specifically because of information he knew about Carolyn, then it follows that this is just the tip of the iceberg.
Specifically, he accused Florence of misuse of funds. And he seems to have been in support of Carolyn. From the mailing list: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-April/028748.html
Mid january, the board asked Brad to stop being ED [emphasis mine] end of january. At
that time, there was no ED, but there was already an ED search planned,
so we had high expectations to have an ED within 3-4 months, say may or
june.
You, Danny, considers that the staff can very well handle
itself alone, without any ED. Actually, your opinion is that Carolyn can
be the ED. At that point, Carolyn opinion is the same. The board opinion
is not the same.
But bottom line, this is the board who is choosing the ED. It is not
Danny. Carolyn is fabulous as a COO, and I really hope she choose to
stick with us, even if we are a mad house. The job of a COO is a
different job than the job of the ED. Both are important and essential.
But they are different jobs. Period. We talked with Carolyn about all
this, and from what we understood, she understand that. She understands
the need for an ED.
Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We
were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your
resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door
and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland
fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left
the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the
only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line:
you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal
that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to
not answer.
Posted by: the fieryangel
Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We
were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your
resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door
and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland
fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left
the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the
only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line:
you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal
that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to
not answer.
Boy, that makes it very clear that Danny did not quit because what he knew (or didn't know) about the COO. Now, why the confidentiality agreement that protects her?
This doesn't make any sense at all.
But as Danny says they are "all crazy".
There's something more, though.
Posted by: Rootology
I wonder if Cade Metz and Andrew Orlowski read Wikipedia Review.
It's almost like having a bunch of researchers in your newsroom.
I wonder soon how many others news organizations will check into here, soon.
Everyone wave to the nice media fellows.
Posted by: Alkivar
I wonder if Cade Metz and Andrew Orlowski read Wikipedia Review.
It's almost like having a bunch of researchers in your newsroom.
I wonder soon how many others news organizations will check into here, soon.
Everyone wave to the nice media fellows.
more digging needs to occur:
http://digg.com/world_news/Wikipedia_COO_was_convicted_felon
Posted by: anthony
Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We
were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your
resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door
and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland
fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left
the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the
only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line:
you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal
that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to
not answer.
Boy, that makes it very clear that Danny did not quit because what he knew (or didn't know) about the COO. Now, why the confidentiality agreement that protects her?
This doesn't make any sense at all.
But as Danny says they are "all crazy".
There's something more, though.
Just raises more questions. How exactly did she get placed in the temp position? When did this happen? I can't find any announcement of this. What temp agency was it?
We really do need a timeline.
Posted by: the fieryangel
Just raises more questions. How exactly did she get placed in the temp position? When did this happen? I can't find any announcement of this. What temp agency was it?
We really do need a timeline.
Yes, but I have one specific question before we get into that:
What are the legal ramifications that WMF's 990-form was signed by a convicted felon?
It's my understanding that not-for-profit status is a not a right, but a privilege granted by the IRS.
Is this enough to revoke their NFP status?
Posted by: Rootology
FYI for those reading that aren't regulars; a long-time Wikipedia administrator has been fired by order of the Arbitration Committee, which is appointed by AND overseen by Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales, for "restoring" the deleted article about Carolyn Doran:
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=14634
Posted by: Moulton
Given her alleged rap sheet, it could well be sufficient cause for the IRS to examine it closely.
Posted by: tarantino
Zscout370 has been http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3AZscout370%40enwikiby ArbCom for http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=Zscout370&page=Carolyn+Doran the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carolyn_Doran article.
Posted by: the fieryangel
OKay, I've found http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-September/081166.html about Carolyn's leaving her post and she makes a very strange statement: [/url]
further comment. Carolyn has the full right of talking to you, but we,
as an organization, can not give details.
In the past, there were some questions of how trustworthy the Foundation
could be with confidential personal data. The Foundation was blamed
because some private data were supposingly revealed and a couple of
checkusers preferred to stop being checkusers when we requested them to
simply give us proof of their real identity, because they feared that
some spills could occur and their private data could become public.
So, Carolyn can talk but the foundation can't???
The idea about disclosing private information is just lame. This makes no sense at all.
Posted by: Moulton
It looks like a clerical error...
* 14:11, 14 December 2007 Jon Harald Søby (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Zscout370@enwiki from sysop to (none) ‎ (per request of the Arbitration Committee)
Posted by: the fieryangel
Starting a timeline : http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=14638...
January 24, 2007 http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Resolution:COO_-_Carolyn_Doran
February 2 2007 Essjay posts he provided all his real life information to
Jimbo Wales and Angela Beasley, and then the same information to Brad
Patrick but does not say when this occurred.
February 3 2007 Florence Devouard makes a Foundation Annoucement
that Brad Patrick would be resuming his role as General Counsel exclusively
after serving as Interim Executive Director and to now "focus on developing
the role of General Counsel, and addressing a backlog of complex legal
questions the Foundation faces moving forward."
March 20, 2007 http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Current_staff&diff=prev&oldid=19933.
[/quote]
March 22, 2007 http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-March/028404.html.
March 23, 2007 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/foundation/c/ce/WMF_2006_Form_990.pdf, which every 501c must file with the IRS (which is the least they can do since they don't pay taxes). Go to page 8, where you'll see that Carolyn Doran signed it on behalf of the WMF on 3/23/07.
Posted by: Alkivar
http://original-research.blogspot.com/2007/12/uh-what.html
another blog post on the subject.
He makes a comment about a felon not legally being able to be an officer of a corporation in the US.
is that a nation wide thing? or is it a per state thing?
Posted by: Daniel Brandt
I think a useful line of inquiry is to get as much documentation of Carolyn's activities and legal problems in Virgina as we can. I lived in Northern Virginia for 11 years, and I know that the place is crawling with Pentagon types (Alexandria, Virginia) and spooks (the CIA is in McLean, Virginia). Local prosecutors drop cases quietly when the phone rings and it's the CIA on the other end. That's the way the world works in Northern Virginia. If you know something that's classified, the "checkered-history" characters that are thick as thieves in that area refer to such knowledge as a "get out of jail free" card.
It occurs to me that Carolyn was either incredibly careless in her efforts to evade local Virginia authorities, or over-confident that she was protected. Did she run out of "get out of jail free" cards when she split to Florida? Why did she take the risk of traveling to a WMF meeting in Europe? Wasn't she worried about U.S. Customs and their computers? How dumb do you have to be?
If there's a pattern of amazing leniency for her legal transgressions in Virginia, together with spooky connections in addition to those we already know about, then this would be very interesting. It would also raise further questions about her incredible rise from temp to COO at the Foundation. Carolyn may have been "sent" to work in the Office.
Posted by: Somey
is that a nation wide thing? or is it a per state thing?
It's a nationwide thing, but I believe it only applies to publicly-traded corporations, which the Wikimedia Foundation is not. One of our more business-savvy members should feel free to correct me on that one, of course.
(I consider myself something of a businessman, but I've never been responsible for more than one or two employees, if they could even have been called "employees"!)
Posted by: KStreetSlave
Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo.
Danny left because he couldn't get along with the board, and the board didn't like his attitude. It's a little more complicated than that, but that's the sum and substance of it.
Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We
were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your
resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door
and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland
fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left
the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the
only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line:
you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal
that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to
not answer.
Boy, that makes it very clear that Danny did not quit because what he knew (or didn't know) about the COO. Now, why the confidentiality agreement that protects her?
This doesn't make any sense at all.
But as Danny says they are "all crazy".
There's something more, though.
Like I said, his quitting had nothing to do with the COO position. It had to do with the fact that he pissed people off, and other people pissed him off, and eventually a board member's attitude towards him was the straw that broke the camels back. If you ask him nicely, he'll probably tell you exactly what.
Posted by: Moulton
Today's Google Quote:
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
OKay, I've found http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-September/081166.html about Carolyn's leaving her post and she makes a very strange statement: [/url]
further comment. Carolyn has the full right of talking to you, but we,
as an organization, can not give details.
In the past, there were some questions of how trustworthy the Foundation
could be with confidential personal data. The Foundation was blamed
because some private data were supposingly revealed and a couple of
checkusers preferred to stop being checkusers when we requested them to
simply give us proof of their real identity, because they feared that
some spills could occur and their private data could become public.
So, Carolyn can talk but the foundation can't???
The idea about disclosing private information is just lame. This makes no sense at all.
Odd indeed. The party permitted to speak in a confidentiality agreement is usually the person that is holding all the cards. How could that be? Is it possible that WMF was that unskilled and artless in negotiating Carolyn's separation? Or is it possible that Carolyn had some significant leverage in the discussions?
Posted by: Jonny Cache
Or it it possible that Carolyn had some significant leverage in the discussions?
Yeah, you'd think she was holding a gun to their heads …
Jonny
Posted by: Moulton
This is just speculation, but it's common in organizations to offer an employee the option of resigning rather than be fired. If they choose to resign, the quid pro quo is usually to withhold public disclosure of the reason for discharge. The person who resigned rather than be fired can still turn around and say they were asked to leave for whatever reason they care to suggest.
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
This is just speculation, but it's common in organizations to offer an employee the option of resigning rather than be fired. If they choose to resign, the quid pro quo is usually to withhold public disclosure of the reason for discharge. The person who resigned rather than be fired can still turn around and say they were asked to leave for whatever reason they care to suggest.
In the context of a person in a position of trust in a non-profit organization who is likely to seek employment in a similar position this seems less than responsible.
Posted by: tarantino
Contest: Who can come up with the most absurd and/or funniest apologetic one-liner from a cabalista over this scandal? The winner gets an expense-paid trip to San Francisco to work as a temp in the new office.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jimbo_Wales&diff=177979031&oldid=177977277:
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
Pretty dumb. But most dumb people don't know they are dumb, and a dumb person wouldn't know there was a database with people who have parole restrictions in place. A dumb person wouldn't imagine that she would get caught.
I knew a woman who avoided arrest by entering the U.S. via Canada. She got caught when she got sick of hiding. I didn't know this about her arrest record, and was really surprised to learn she was in jail (serious lady). She was a smart woman, and very well educated. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you are on a database, and can (and will) be caught. Maybe Carolyn wasn't one of the sharper knives.
If there's a pattern of amazing leniency for her legal transgressions in Virginia, together with spooky connections in addition to those we already know about, then this would be very interesting. It would also raise further questions about her incredible rise from temp to COO at the Foundation. Carolyn may have been "sent" to work in the Office.
It makes no sense.
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
Zscout370 has been http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3AZscout370%40enwikiby ArbCom for http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=Zscout370&page=Carolyn+Doran the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carolyn_Doran article.
Sounds to me like a "last hurrah" swipe back at Jimbo for that ban.
Posted by: Disillusioned Lackey
(from above)
WHAT???????????
Posted by: Rootology
(from above)
WHAT???????????
Nice employee screening there, Florence and Jimmy. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with everyone over there? Late audits, financial criminals in charge of the financial books?
Posted by: Amarkov
Zscout370 has been http://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=rights&user=&page=User%3AZscout370%40enwikiby ArbCom for http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=&user=Zscout370&page=Carolyn+Doran the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Carolyn_Doran article.
Sounds to me like a "last hurrah" swipe back at Jimbo for that ban.
Okay, so the stewards are incompetent. Desysop has since been reversed, apparently he "misunderstood the situation".
Posted by: thekohser
Nice employee screening there, Florence and Jimmy. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with everyone over there? Late audits, financial criminals in charge of the financial books?
Don't forget the http://www.ihatewikipedia.com/uploads/Wikimedia_IRS_Form_990_2006_YE_063006.pdf -- where they say that Wikia, Inc. is a "related organization" (Line 80a), but that none of the board of directors (including Wales, Beesley, and Davis) share a "business relationship" (Line 75b), even though Wales, Beesley, and Davis are all principals at Wikia, Inc.!
Humroo?
Seriously, how is it that the IRS has not brought forth an investigation of this organization yet?
Greg
Posted by: guy
Okay, so the stewards are incompetent. Desysop has since been reversed, apparently he "misunderstood the situation".
Incompetent, or just misinformed into believing that ArbCom had agreed something when it hadn't?
Posted by: Jonny Cache
Bothwell (CAROLYN DORAN, MAIDEN NAME BOTHWELL) who has a pending credit card forgery case in Loudoun
WHAT???????????
Wut, you gotta problem with people who sign credit cards in Loudoun in a similar way?
Jonny
Posted by: Amarkov
Okay, so the stewards are incompetent. Desysop has since been reversed, apparently he "misunderstood the situation".
Incompetent, or just misinformed into believing that ArbCom had agreed something when it hadn't?
It's not clear, actually. It seemed a lot more obvious before all the "well maybe he should be desysopped" hints started being dropped.
Posted by: thekohser
I just want to say that what I'm gathering from http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036144.html, I have come to the personal conclusion that:
1) Probably all the Board knew about Carolyn Bothwell Doran's legal problems (just prior to her departure from the WMF office) was her DUI charge. I am imagining that she came to the Board, said she would be tied up with DUI charge, it wouldn't look good for the Foundation, and that she would like to submit her resignation and leave peacefully. She probably also asked that the Foundation not disclose this in public, in her hopes to not have her other skeletons discovered by the general public.
2) The boyfriend-shooting, check bouncing, credit card fraud, relationship with the woman who poisoned her lover, husband who drowned, etc. were all probably not known by the entire Board of Trustees until after the Register article broke. I am convinced that some staffer or staffers, and perhaps one (maybe two?) Board members may have known at least something about these other crimes and tragedies, but out of some allegiance to Carolyn, did not publicize these issues.
3) One of these insiders had to have tipped off Cade Metz and helped him build his story.
4) In the two hours between Mike Godwin's call with Cade Metz and the publication of the story, nobody thought it was important to start investigating Carolyn's background -- probably because what they THOUGHT Metz was going to publish merely involved the DUI charge.
The Foundation's response to the Carolyn Fiasco is beginning to appear somewhat more tolerable to me; although I still cannot "forgive" the Foundation in this case. Why? Because I have been trying to point out equally shocking financial indiscretions that probably permeate the Wikipedia/Wikia marriage; yet, I am largely ignored by those with the power to actually put a stop to those problems. They have a historical pattern of ignoring or denying major problems when they are thrust in their faces, so I can't have much pity for them that they did only a semi-poor job of handling this particular Fiasco.
I'm suspect if we wait long enough, Jimbo will be quoted in the New York Times, saying, "I regard it as a staffing boo-boo, and I don't really have a problem with it." And all the drones will get back to work on Wikipedia, Wikia, and Wikia Search, so that Jimbo's luxurious retirement can be further guaranteed.
Greg
Posted by: anthony
I just want to say that what I'm gathering from http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036144.html, I have come to the personal conclusion that:
1) Probably all the Board knew about Carolyn Bothwell Doran's legal problems (just prior to her departure from the WMF office) was her DUI charge. I am imagining that she came to the Board, said she would be tied up with DUI charge, it wouldn't look good for the Foundation, and that she would like to submit her resignation and leave peacefully. She probably also asked that the Foundation not disclose this in public, in her hopes to not have her other skeletons discovered by the general public.
2) The boyfriend-shooting, check bouncing, credit card fraud, relationship with the woman who poisoned her lover, husband who drowned, etc. were all probably not known by the entire Board of Trustees until after the Register article broke. I am convinced that some staffer or staffers, and perhaps one (maybe two?) Board members may have known at least something about these other crimes and tragedies, but out of some allegiance to Carolyn, did not publicize these issues.
3) One of these insiders had to have tipped off Cade Metz and helped him build his story.
4) In the two hours between Mike Godwin's call with Cade Metz and the publication of the story, nobody thought it was important to start investigating Carolyn's background -- probably because what they THOUGHT Metz was going to publish merely involved the DUI charge.
I think you're right on, except for number 3. Finding the extradition to Virginia was really easy. Once someone noticed that it's perfectly possible they'd start looking deeper.
I seem to remember questioning the departure of Carolyn here on WR. Someone pointed out that she was a local hire (from a temp agency in St. Pete) and therefore unlikely to be involved in the deeper corruption of Wikipedia. Indeed, unless we come up with some really complicated conspiracy theories, Carolyn's background is little more than a strange coincidence. (It also goes to show you that the people running Wikipedia either don't care about criminals running their organization or that they are too inept to know about it, but I for one already knew that.)
Hopefully this revelation will at least have people looking harder at the WMF's financials. Maybe someone should send a copy of the story to their auditors, on the off chance they didn't already know about it. Unless you think that'd just have them looking in the wrong direction.
Posted by: Moulton
My guess is that someone in the know did put Cade Metz onto the story, perhaps because those on the inside were balking at disclosing it to the community.
Posted by: anthony
My guess is that someone in the know did put Cade Metz onto the story, perhaps because those on the inside were balking at disclosing it to the community.
I don't think Cade Metz came up with it by himself. I'm not sure I should speculate beyond that, but I will anyway. Maybe Christiano Moreschi put him onto the story.
Posted by: Moulton
Hey, this is just like Watergate, where we spent decades speculating on who Deep Throat really was.
We need a code name for the informant.
I propose Deep Gloat.
Posted by: GlassBeadGame
I just want to say that what I'm gathering from http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-December/036144.html, I have come to the personal conclusion that:
1) Probably all the Board knew about Carolyn Bothwell Doran's legal problems (just prior to her departure from the WMF office) was her DUI charge. I am imagining that she came to the Board, said she would be tied up with DUI charge, it wouldn't look good for the Foundation, and that she would like to submit her resignation and leave peacefully. She probably also asked that the Foundation not disclose this in public, in her hopes to not have her other skeletons discovered by the general public.
2) The boyfriend-shooting, check bouncing, credit card fraud, relationship with the woman who poisoned her lover, husband who drowned, etc. were all probably not known by the entire Board of Trustees until after the Register article broke. I am convinced that some staffer or staffers, and perhaps one (maybe two?) Board members may have known at least something about these other crimes and tragedies, but out of some allegiance to Carolyn, did not publicize these issues.
3) One of these insiders had to have tipped off Cade Metz and helped him build his story.
4) In the two hours between Mike Godwin's call with Cade Metz and the publication of the story, nobody thought it was important to start investigating Carolyn's background -- probably because what they THOUGHT Metz was going to publish merely involved the DUI charge.
The Foundation's response to the Carolyn Fiasco is beginning to appear somewhat more tolerable to me; although I still cannot "forgive" the Foundation in this case. Why? Because I have been trying to point out equally shocking financial indiscretions that probably permeate the Wikipedia/Wikia marriage; yet, I am largely ignored by those with the power to actually put a stop to those problems. They have a historical pattern of ignoring or denying major problems when they are thrust in their faces, so I can't have much pity for them that they did only a semi-poor job of handling this particular Fiasco.
I'm suspect if we wait long enough, Jimbo will be quoted in the New York Times, saying, "I regard it as a staffing boo-boo, and I don't really have a problem with it." And all the drones will get back to work on Wikipedia, Wikia, and Wikia Search, so that Jimbo's luxurious retirement can be further guaranteed.
Greg
What needs to be taken away from this story is that the WMF, in the midst of a fund raising drive, has proven itself institutionally incapable of exercising the due diligence need to determine the most basic publicly available facts about the person who was for a significant period of time the go-to-person in relation to the corporation's most fundamental financial controls. Getting involved in the interpersonal dramas, petty betrayals, and exculpatory whinings of various actors will only cloud this lesson. Once again the issue is at bottom not wiki drama but social responsibility.
Posted by: dogbiscuit
What needs to be taken away from this story is that the WMF, in the midst of a fund raising drive, has proven itself institutionally incapable of exercising the due diligence need to determine the most basic publicly available facts about the person who was for a significant period of time the go-to-person in relation to the corporation's most fundamental financial controls. Getting involved in the interpersonal dramas, petty betrayals, and exculpatory whinings of various actors will only cloud this lesson. Once again the issue is at bottom not wiki drama but social responsibility.
Put simply, they are fund-raising yet they cannot show that they have spent the money they have properly. The business itself is small and simple, even if its reach is wide.
I mean, how many invoices are there to check? I would have thought this was classic brown paper bag accounting - tip out the receipts on the table, get the calculator and spreadsheet going and a couple of hours later any decent accountant has re-done the books. If they cannot reconstruct the accounts, then it means something is missing, or something has been done wrong, like accidentally mixing up charity and
Posted by: thekohser
Somebody should mail a copy of Helter Skelter to Jussi-Ville Heiskanen -- just don't do it while you're on the Wikimedia clock!
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087634.html I say the outlandish thing above:
And there you have it.
(edited by gomi for content)
(edited again by thekohser for more ribald implications)
Posted by: Derktar
Somebody should mail a copy of Helter Skelter to Jussi-Ville Heiskanen -- just don't do it while you're on the Wikimedia clock!
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087634.html I say the outlandish thing above:
And there you have it.
Good to know some people are so brainwashed they have lost much of their humanity. I wonder what he would say if she had murdered a member of the foundation on "her own time." Absolutely disgusting.
Posted by: Moulton
I'd be more worried about being accidentally shot in the treasure chest in an act of self-expense.