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Wikipedia check book balanced by convicted felon - Register |
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Alkivar |
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5$ says someone will be suing that temp agency for them sending Carolyn to WMF in the first place... we know pass the buck is par for the course. DUI x4 Check Fraud Petty Larceny x2 Assault with a deadly weapon Manslaughter Probation violations including leaving the country but seriously... she was in THE WASHINGTON POST for shooting her boyfriend... she wont even pass a google test, let alone a background check... so its clear one was never performed. hell i'm no angel (i've got a felony conviction)... but i'm also not handling the books for around $400,000 for my profession... this wont be blowing over anytime soon. PS digg this up: http://digg.com/world_news/Wikipedia_COO_was_convicted_felonThis post has been edited by Alkivar:
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Daniel Brandt |
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Banned users may not edit. Their only alternative is to use OTRS. They should first forward a fifth of expensive bourbon to the Office, along with $100 cash for cab fares home, or their request will not be considered. In fact, it most likely won't be considered even after they do this. San Francisco is going to be fun... I found both of these by searching for "carolyn bothwell" in Google. If you knew her age and that she lived in Virginia at the time, it would have been a no-brainer to discover this through due diligence. There are only 21 hits total in Google if the name is inside quotation marks. http://www.courts.state.va.us/opinions/opncavtx/0864964.txt QUOTE Carolyn Bothwell, a friend of Hall's, assisted the police investigation by wearing a concealed recording device on six different occasions in a futile attempt to obtain incriminating statements from appellant. Bothwell testified that she, already a convicted felon, was the target of a felony prosecution in Loudoun County at the time of appellant's trial but that her case had been continued. She further testified that she had reached no agreement with the Loudoun County prosecutor's office regarding the effect her cooperation in appellant's case might have on her own prosecution. http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-1111959.htmlQUOTE Va. Shooting Case Typifies Domestic Violence Cycle The Washington Post, February 22, 1990 by DeNeen L. Brown
As he lay in bed in their Herndon town house, she walked up to him, stood no more than three feet away, pointed a .357 magnum at him and pulled the trigger, according to court testimony.
The bullet cut through his chest and his back, lodging in a pillow. "I damn near died," Philip L. Brown, 47, said in an interview yesterday about the Aug. 25 shooting. "They flew me code blue to the trauma center."
Carolyn Bothwell, 27, his girlfriend of eight years, was charged with malicious wounding and use of a firearm. A day after she was indicted, Brown wrote a letter to Assistant Commonwealth's ... The question is, "Why does The Register have to do this, and will it now be considered a BADSITE by Wikipedia?" Is it "wikistalking" or is it "due diligence"? Only your unfriendly cabalist knows for sure, and he won't tell you.
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Daniel Brandt |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Thu 13th December 2007, 8:51pm) Wait a minute. Read this. Am I correctly reading that Carolyn Bothwell shot her boyfriend in the chest in 1990, then in 1999 her husband drowned in the Cayman Islands while on their honeymoon? Not trying to play forensic psychologist here -- I'm just confirming that these two points are facts? Greg Yes, it looks like the same Carolyn. The Washington Times snippet right below that one in your Google search says, "Doran is predeceased by his father, William T. Doran. He is survived by his wife, Carolyn, and a stepson, Philip Bothwell, both of Potomac Falls; ... " The Post piece linked in the Register article says, "She said she did not want to risk losing custody of her 3-year-old son." So if the Carolyn we're talking about has a son named Philip Bothwell, now about 21 years old, then it must be the same one. Potomac Falls MD is only about 15 miles from Herndon VA, and the time difference is nine years. Oops, sorry, I'm wikistalking again... I'm a BADBOY.
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Somey |
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Frankly, I doubt the Wikimedia Foundation would have cared if they had known that Doran was a convicted felon who had been involved in a shooting incident. It just stands to reason that if you open up a website, along with the structures built to support it, to the entire world with no background checks, no verifiable identities, and no accountability, you're going to get some people with criminal records - along with a wide variety of other people with, shall we say, interesting stories.And while I know full well that fetishism is no crime (in most states), let's not forget that the WMF's current spokesman, Cary "Bastique" Bass, is a former (or who knows, maybe current?) treasurer of the Southeast Conference of Clubs - or more specifically, Leather Clubs. Don't bother clicking on the link unless you're over 18!
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tarantino |
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the Dude abides
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QUOTE(Somey @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:24am) Frankly, I doubt the Wikimedia Foundation would have cared if they had known that Doran was a convicted felon who had been involved in a shooting incident. It just stands to reason that if you open up a website, along with the structures built to support it, to the entire world with no background checks, no verifiable identities, and no accountability, you're going to get some people with criminal records - along with a wide variety of other people with, shall we say, interesting stories.And while I know full well that fetishism is no crime (in most states), let's not forget that the WMF's current spokesman, Cary "Bastique" Bass, is a former (or who knows, maybe current?) treasurer of the Southeast Conference of Clubs - or more specifically, Leather Clubs. Don't bother clicking on the link unless you're over 18! It's unlikely they ever ran a background on Cary, either. While looking through FeloniousMonk's edits, I ran across his warning of Deodar for filing a checkuser request against SlimVirgin. Deodar was concerned no one person could edit for 27 hours straight. Cary posits an alternate explanation, prior to TM's warning- QUOTE Back in my old days...2000 and before, I found crystal methamphetamine could keep me online for periods 24 hours and longer...sometimes wayyyy longer. Just saying, it doesn't have to be multiple people. Bastiqueâ–¼parler voir 03:27, 8 September 2006 (UTC) The RFCU was subsequently deleted by JzG because it was "vexatious".
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Somey |
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Can't actually moderate (or even post)
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http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...ber/087328.htmlQUOTE(JoshuaZ @ Fri Dec 14 02:19:10 UTC 2007) And now all the Register's previous material looks correct because they broke this nonsense... Are we trying to implode? Hey, there are worse things than "implosion." Let me tell you about that time I went to Ryan's Steakhouse for the all-you-can-eat buffet...http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...ember/date.htmlQUOTE(Thomas Dalton @ Fri Dec 14 02:43:54 UTC 2007) Why would you do a background check for a pretty standard office job? ... You can't go around refusing to trust anything anybody says. Unless they're Wikipedia Review members, or tech-sector journalists...http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...ber/087332.htmlQUOTE(Risker @ Fri Dec 14 03:01:39 UTC 2007) People forget that the WMF is a charitable organization and has some pretty stringent fiduciary responsibilities in law. People on Wikipedia, maybe...http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...ber/087345.htmlQUOTE(George Herbert @ Fri Dec 14 04:22:50 UTC 2007) Based on who appears to be feeding information to Metz, he has sources that have falsified information before both for press and community attacks on Wikipedia before. Such as...? And...proof? But wait! This is Wikipedia, where proof is irrelevant!
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WordBomb |
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QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 13th December 2007, 11:56pm) Contest: Who can come up with the most absurd and/or funniest apologetic one-liner from a cabalista over this scandal? The winner gets an expense-paid trip to San Francisco to work as a temp in the new office.
You can all quit playing. I have the winner. That putz George Herbert takes it hands down: QUOTE Based on who appears to be feeding information to Metz, he has sources that have falsified information before both for press and community attacks on Wikipedia before. (This message brought to you by the National Redundancy Association of Redundancy) Yes, George "Android Dungeon" Herbert is a real prince. I've emailed twice asking him to back up a public claim that I've not told the truth on AntiSocialMedia.net but have been twice ignored. It's nice to have tidbits like this one to put the rest of his blah blah in context. EDIT: Garbage! Castle Rock beat me with the same reference by four minutes. Well I'm willing to job-share with you CR, if our entry ends up winning. This post has been edited by WordBomb:
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Alkivar |
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http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/shdoran.htmher deceased husband was Air Force. "He had served in the Air Force for 18 years, working in the field of weapons development and evaluation. In addition to stations in Florida, he served with the U.S. On-Site Inspection Team in Russia in support of the SALT agreements. He had served in the Washington area for the past five years and transferred to MIMA last year after being with the Central Intelligence Agency." so his drowning death got her survivor's benefits for an 18-year veteran.... jumping to conclusions is ok in my book... theres certainly enough fishy shit going on. the more scrutiny I put on wikipedia... the more the CIA appears tangentially... creepy. PS: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Chief_Operatin...convicted_felonThis post has been edited by Alkivar:
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Jonny Cache |
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τα δε μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γÎγονε
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QUOTE(WordBomb @ Thu 13th December 2007, 11:37pm) QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Thu 13th December 2007, 11:56pm) Contest: Who can come up with the most absurd and/or funniest apologetic one-liner from a cabalista over this scandal? The winner gets an expense-paid trip to San Francisco to work as a temp in the new office.
You can all quit playing. [url=http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-December/087345.html] I have the winner[/url]. That putz George Herbert takes it hands down: QUOTE Based on who appears to be feeding information to Metz, he has sources that have falsified information before both for press and community attacks on Wikipedia before.
(This message brought to you by the National Redundancy Association of Redundancy) Yes, George "Android Dungeon" Herbert is a real prince. I've emailed twice asking him to back up a public claim that I've not told the truth on AntiSocialMedia.net but have been twice ignored. It's nice to have tidbits like this one to put the rest of his blah blah in context. EDIT: Garbage! Castle Rock beat me with the same reference by four minutes. Well I'm willing to job-share with you CR, if our entry ends up winning. There was once a Wikipedia Bio on GWH, who is notable for his Wiki-Platitudes, but it got deleted, 'cause you know what a status symbol it is these days to have a Deleted Wikipedia Bio, but I think we have an old copy of it in the Articles forum. Yup, here it is — George William HerbertJonny (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif) This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:
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Piperdown |
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word, they'd rather call you a liar and give you *crickets*, 'cuz the wikikids believe everything the respected admins tell them, and pretend that the wikikiddies aren't going to ASM and checking it all out for themselves...then shutting up so they don't lose their accounts.
DB's crazy, WB's odious, Byrne's whacky, Gary's a critic, Slimmy's a victim, Durova they're not so sure anymore, Jayjg's a ...wait, who? we don't know nobody here by that name..., etc
So now this Carolyn scandal can't be referenced in WP anywhere. Cuz The Register UK is a bad BADSITE. Although lil 'GW and his stuntcat Sami had no problem with El Reg when they could use it to diss Grandmaster Byrne.
Byrne owned Wales on his own talk page. Owned. LOL.
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GlassBeadGame |
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QUOTE(Jonny Cache @ Thu 13th December 2007, 10:40pm) She was the organization's COO during a period of time it lacked an Executive Director. Which would make it seem like she was in charge of day to day operations. Not exactly a receptionist. Maybe all of those fancy corporate acronyms (ED, COO, GC, GK) are just, you know, pseudonyms to stop harassment from, you know, stalkers and abusers, like those in the law enforcement communities of Maryland, Texas and Virgina. After all this was the point of Essjays phony PhDs. Just to throw them off the trail.
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Daniel Brandt |
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It might be time to entertain A Wacky Conspiracy Theory.
Factoid 1: At least two key people were hired in the Office who had, shall we say, résumés that meant they were not in a position to play whistleblower. I'm referring to Carolyn Doran and Cary Bass.
Factoid 2: There were massive amounts of travelling to silly meetings where they had nothing to discuss, with expenses paid. The reason they don't have anything to discuss is because they've been trying very hard to pretend that they aren't responsible for the content on Wikipedia.
Factoid 3: Brad and Danny resigned abruptly around nine months ago.
Factoid 4: I have heard stories, supposedly originating from one of the two above who resigned (I better not say which one), that there was funny business going on with the budget and expense accounts.
Factoid 5: Michael Davis is also not in a position to play whistleblower convincingly because of his own history of legal problems. These derived from alleged financial improprieties during his Chicago options-trading days.
Factoid 6: Tim Shell (CEO of Bomis) resigned from the Board one year ago.
Factoid 7: Davis and Shell are Jimbo cronies from the old days. Jimbo loves going around shmoozing with The Beautiful People, and doesn't have sufficient moral fiber to blow the whistle on anything — as long as he's having a good time.
Add all this up and what do you get? I dunno, but you'd be smarter to send your tax-deductible donation to help a kid in Latin America, rather than sending it to the Wikimedia Foundation. Maybe the kid will grow up without a Wikipedia-preinstalled laptop and become a responsible, productive citizen.
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Castle Rock |
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I think I have a winner, this pretty much blows all of the others away. QUOTE His muck-raking is beneath contempt. Did you steal Cade Metz's wife or something, Jimbo? Rockpocket 05:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Some people just don't get it. This post has been edited by Castle Rock:
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Derktar |
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QUOTE(Castle Rock @ Thu 13th December 2007, 9:09pm) I think I have a winner, this pretty much blows all of the others away. QUOTE His muck-raking is beneath contempt. Did you steal Cade Metz's wife or something, Jimbo? Rockpocket 05:08, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
Some people just don't get it. There's the endorsement Jimbo needs to adopt a Wikipedia ex-con work program! Oh and nice one Jimbo: QUOTE As Mike Godwin said to the reporter, ""We've never had any documentation of any criminal record on Carolyn Doran's part at all." There was no question of the board "disclosing" information that we did not have. So they're either incompetent or corrupt...or both...that should help the fund raiser.
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Daniel Brandt |
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QUOTE(Alkivar @ Thu 13th December 2007, 10:43pm) http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/shdoran.htmher deceased husband was Air Force. "He had served in the Air Force for 18 years, working in the field of weapons development and evaluation. In addition to stations in Florida, he served with the U.S. On-Site Inspection Team in Russia in support of the SALT agreements. He had served in the Washington area for the past five years and transferred to MIMA last year after being with the Central Intelligence Agency." so his drowning death got her survivor's benefits for an 18-year veteran.... jumping to conclusions is ok in my book... theres certainly enough fishy shit going on. the more scrutiny I put on wikipedia... the more the CIA appears tangentially... creepy. PS: http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/Chief_Operatin...convicted_felon Dammit, Alkivar, I really didn't want to bring this up because it's too late and too spooky. But you've forced my hand. I sincerely hope there's nothing to it. The first post I cited in this thread refers to an "Investigator Robinette" and I cannot find a first name for Robinette on that page. I understand that Glenn Robinette became a private investigator in that neck of the woods. He's also a CIA veteran. NameBase played a key role in exposing him to the media back in 1986, during the Iran/contra mess. Is the "Investigator Robinette" one and the same as Glenn Robinette — another CIA veteran? Of course, those nitwits in the cabal will claim that the CIA doesn't use people with "checkered" histories. They haven't studied the CIA for 40 years like I have.
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thekohser |
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For posterity's sake, I have made a couple of WebSite preservations of Carolyn's WMF user page and history page. I have a feeling that Jimbo & Co. will be taking them down in the next 12 hours. Carolyn Doran User page: http://www.webcitation.org/5U4cD8PrKNote the highly ironic statement she made on her User page: I strongly urge all Wikipedians to support us by donating throughout the year.I guess it depends on what's meant by the word "us". Carolyn Doran User page history: http://www.webcitation.org/5U4cov7hKNote the prophetic edit comment from User:EVula -- Protected User:Carolyn-WMF: I've got a *really* bad feeling about this page...There. Now we have a snapshot of how these pages looked on the night it was exposed. I wonder if they'll disappear, and how soon? Greg
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Piperdown |
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QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 14th December 2007, 5:55am) Mike Godwin is in Cover Your Ass mode. http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/found...ber/036007.html QUOTE Now I were you, I'd Assume Good Faith on the part of the Foundation (and on my part too, I hope) and ask instead what event or person gave this (oddly speculative and disconnected) story to our good friends at the Register.
And that is pretty much all I'm going to say on this list about the Register story or its subject matter. Yeah, find the person who gave the message to the messenger, and kill him! That'll work!you see, the adults at WP don't think that their "kids", aka Wikpedians, know how to use Google. on this Assume No Googling, they're able to pull off pretty much any WP Justice they want. BADSITES was a Google Search short-circuit, as WP'ians do know how to click on links on talk pages and articles, so it was a necessary addendum to "thou shalt not Google, or let anyone know what you find if you do". Perhaps Metz did something that WMF didn't bother to do: Google the people they are about to hire. This post has been edited by Piperdown:
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thekohser |
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Yup, and Nathan Awrich's wiki career is about to come to a quick end. QUOTE Nathan Awrich nawrich at gmail.com Fri Dec 14 05:15:40 UTC 2007
Previous message: [Foundation-l] Foundation Discretion Regarding Personnel Matters Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [ subject ] [ author ]
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No disrespect intended, and I hope and believe that you and the Board work with the interests of the organization foremost in your mind. I do disagree, however, with the judgment seemingly displayed on this issue. It seems as though it would have benefited the organization to have simply stated at the time of separation between WMF and Ms. Doran that there were personnel issues which the Board was bound to disclose.
Additionally, a heads up about imminent disclosure would also have been in order given the fact that you consented to an interview with the Register (of all publications) and presumably were aware that the story would be published. At this point, the appearance is that the Board withheld information from the community about a material failure of due diligence in hiring - and then commented publicly to a glorified newsblog known to attack Wikipedia without providing the community fair warning of yet another assault on our credibility.
Now, I may be reading the situation in exactly the wrong way - but I would like a more elaborate description of why this might be so, and I imagine I am not alone. There are still many unknowns regarding the truth here, and the Foundation can only benefit from providing clarity. If the WMF is unable to comment any further because of continuing legal constraints (which is completely possible) that too would be pertinent information. If you intended to convey this in your response below, it isn't clear to me.
Nathan This post has been edited by thekohser:
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Rootology |
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Alkivar |
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wow this woman is a fucking black widow... check this "coincidence" -------------- She was also the roommate of a woman who poisoned a man in 1994 to get his life insurance money, and the jury heard testimony that she was an indirect accomplice to it. The free version is here, but does not mention her name. By request, I can e-mail anyone who wants the full copy (which does mention her name). Also, if anyone has LexisNexis, they can easily get the copy themselves. TheCustomOfLife 05:11, 14 December 2007 (UTC) I've excerpted the part that has to do with Carolyn. A former roommate of Betancourt's, Sterling resident Carolyn Bothwell, testified yesterday that Betancourt told her in July 1994 that Montague "won't be around in September to worry about." Betancourt's attorney, Gregory Harris, suggested that his client meant that she would be breaking off her relationship with Montague, not that "Cassie was going to do him in." The tapes were recorded at the home of Bothwell, who is a neighbor of Montague's daughter, Janet Hall. Betancourt lived with Bothwell for three months in the spring of 1994. Bothwell testified that she bought a recording device and put it on her telephone to capture threatening phone calls from her former common-law husband. She said Betancourt was with her when she bought the device. Bothwell said she gave the tapes to investigators after she found out about Montague's death. Harris suggested that Bothwell, who has a pending credit card forgery case in Loudoun, was trying to curry favor with prosecutors with her testimony. Bothwell denied that. "I had enough to lose coming up here," she said. "I had nothing to gain." TheCustomOfLife 05:21, 14 December 2007 (UTC) -------------- so shoots guy in 1990... is roomates with someone who poisoned a man for life insurance money in 1994... then has a husband drown in suspicious circumstances in 1999... yeah the "accidental drowning" is looking less and less accidental to me This post has been edited by Alkivar:
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Moulton |
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QUOTE Godwin also said that he and the Foundation are still unaware of Doran's criminal record: "We've never had any documentation of any criminal record on Carolyn Doran's part at all", he told us. "As far as I'm concerned, I have no direct knowledge of [her criminal record] yet … We have, in our records, no evidence of any such thing." Godwin tends to choose his words very carefully. Assuming that someone in the office (besides Doran herself) knew of her record, one has to consider the possibility that any such documentation in the files was surreptitiously removed to keep Godwin and others in the dark. If so, Godwin's sound bite makes it clear that he found no such records in the files when he arrived at WMF last July, even though he appears to leave open the possibility that he'd heard the scuttlebut. Given the amount of redaction and oversighting that goes on routinely on Wikipedia, it's not a leap to imagine the practice extended to the files in the office, too.
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jorge |
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QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 14th December 2007, 5:17am) Dammit, Alkivar, I really didn't want to bring this up because it's too late and too spooky. But you've forced my hand. I sincerely hope there's nothing to it. The first post I cited in this thread refers to an "Investigator Robinette" and I cannot find a first name for Robinette on that page. I understand that Glenn Robinette became a private investigator in that neck of the woods. He's also a CIA veteran. NameBase played a key role in exposing him to the media back in 1986, during the Iran/contra mess. Is the "Investigator Robinette" one and the same as Glenn Robinette — another CIA veteran? Of course, those nitwits in the cabal will claim that the CIA doesn't use people with "checkered" histories. They haven't studied the CIA for 40 years like I have. Let's not forget that Linda Mack aka SlimVirgin was said to have "hung out with CIA types" in the 1990s.
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GlassBeadGame |
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Dharma Bum
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 14th December 2007, 4:44am) QUOTE Godwin also said that he and the Foundation are still unaware of Doran's criminal record: "We've never had any documentation of any criminal record on Carolyn Doran's part at all", he told us. "As far as I'm concerned, I have no direct knowledge of [her criminal record] yet … We have, in our records, no evidence of any such thing." Godwin tends to choose his words very carefully. Assuming that someone in the office (besides Doran herself) knew of her record, one has to consider the possibility that any such documentation in the files was surreptitiously removed to keep Godwin and others in the dark. If so, Godwin's sound bite makes it clear that he found no such records in the files when he arrived at WMF last July, even though he appears to leave open the possibility that he'd heard the scuttlebut. Given the amount of redaction and oversighting that goes on routinely on Wikipedia, it's not a leap to imagine the practice extended to the files in the office, too. Bullshit. Godwin's a go-to-conference type elite lawyer. Not a hardened trial lawyer. A trial lawyer would know it is fine not to comment, but lying to a journalist or playing so cute with the truth that it amounts to the same thing, is a very bad idea that can only come back to haunt your client.
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the fieryangel |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:56pm) QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Fri 14th December 2007, 9:46am) QUOTE(WordBomb @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:29pm) In case it's not obvious...Seand59 was likely the username of her late husband prior to his untimely passing (Sean Doran was born in 1959).
Yes but according to this, he died in 1999. What's she doing using his name for a sock account? One would say "honoring his memory". Yes, you could say that, especially in the AGF Wikiworld.... More evidence that the WMF didn't know about this...and others did, but they didn't listen...From Moreschi, of all people: QUOTE LOL, chaps. This is all completely true. The woman's in prison - the Register have got their facts absolutely correct. I've known about this for yonks but didn't tell anyone. The really amazing thing is that nobody from WMF seems to have known. I remember obliquely quizzing Anthere about this on IRC one merry evening - she either genuinely did not know what had happened or she lied through her teeth to me. What was passing through her mind, I don't know. Someone must have known though...Sue Gardner? She basically seems to have got Carolyn's job. The jail records are pretty much all available on the web, though...hell, I've even got them still bookmarked AFAIK. Cheers, [[User:Moreschi|Moreschi]] <sup> [[User:Moreschi/If|If you've written a quality article...]]</sup> 14:02, 14 December 2007 (UTC)
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anthony |
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QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:24pm) QUOTE(anthony @ Fri 14th December 2007, 4:21pm) The WMF and Carolyn signed a confidentiality agreement around the time of her departure, so they must have known *something*.
This is something that I can't figure out. A "confidentiality agreement" is generally forced upon the departing employee to protect the company, not the other way around. If they had known about this, they would have had more than enough grounds to fire her. I agree, it doesn't fit, but there are lots of possibilities. They may have known part of the story, but not all of it. Or maybe she lied to them about the reasons she was leaving. I mean, she had to resign when she found out she had a warrant out for her arrest. QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:24pm) If they signed an agreement with her, they must have had motivation to do so. Did they agree to sign this so that....she wouldn't talk about something in exchange for them not talking about her?
We don't have all of the pieces yet, but there's obviously something else going on...
The WMF's financial situation has been screwed up for years. There's definitely a lot going on. I'm not yet convinced this Carolyn Doran thing is even all that seriously related, except in the sense that the WMF board of directors are completely inept when it comes to picking leaders.
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QUOTE(anthony @ Fri 14th December 2007, 4:38pm) The WMF's financial situation has been screwed up for years. There's definitely a lot going on. I'm not yet convinced this Carolyn Doran thing is even all that seriously related, except in the sense that the WMF board of directors are completely inept when it comes to picking leaders.
This situation makes Floflo's remarks in the November Wikisignpost interview seem...awfully provocative: QUOTE WS: What is the current status of the Wikimedia Foundation's audit? When do you expect a public release of financial statements for FY2007?
FD: The audit officially began on September 17, 2007. It is expected to be finished by the end of the calendar year (hopefully).
The audit is being conducted by a St. Petersburg firm called Gregory Sharer and Stuart. This is the same firm that conducted our ‘first-three-years’ audit report that was published last year.
On the Wikimedia side, the people involved are Oleta McHenry, preparing the books on behalf of the Foundation. Mona Venkateswaran, a financial consultant to the Foundation and a former auditor, is providing oversight and guidance to Oleta. Various others are helping Oleta by providing information and/or supporting documentation. We are also now actively looking for a new treasurer.
It is hard to plan completion date. It depends on the size of the organization, number of transactions, inherent risk in the audit work, and overall complexity of performing audit procedures. It’s fairly normal for audits to take longer to complete than was initially predicted. The Foundation’s projects (and their popularity) grew significantly over the past year, which meant that spending (number of transactions) increased. So there is more work to be done. Also, there has been some turnover in Foundation staff (e.g., the accountant), which has resulted in some loss of institutional memory that makes it harder to do the audit preparation. So it isn’t really all that surprising that the audit is fairly time-consuming. It should not take nearly as long as this to do a yearly audit. There are obviously problems... Here is the WMF page about the audit.This post has been edited by the fieryangel:
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Alkivar |
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QUOTE It looks like she had a sockpuppet at one point : QUOTE (cur) (last) 20:02, 15 January 2007 Danny (Talk | contribs) m (moved User:Seand59 to User:Carolyn-WMF: Automatically moved page while renaming the user "Seand59" to "Carolyn-WMF") (undo) I can't find the history of that User and think that it's probably been "whiped". Can anybody check a datadump and see if anything interesting turns up? not a sockpuppet. I remember this clearly. the Seand59 was a personal account, when she got officially hired her user name was changed so as to make her official ala danny and danny-office accounts. QUOTE(anthony @ Fri 14th December 2007, 12:35pm) QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 14th December 2007, 4:48pm) That is troubling, as it reinforces the suspicion that they bailed to avoid being complicit in an irregularity that they were powerless to arrest.
It's also possible that one or both of them were asked to resign. Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo. This post has been edited by Alkivar:
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QUOTE(Moulton @ Fri 14th December 2007, 1:16pm) QUOTE(Alkivar @ Fri 14th December 2007, 1:11pm) Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo. Can you dispel the suspicion that there are any irregularities in the preparation of the Form 990, and that it would stand up just fine to an IRS review? I'll ask him to comment... but I think he'll probably refuse to go on the record with regards to that.
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QUOTE(Alkivar @ Fri 14th December 2007, 1:11pm) Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo.
I'm sure you would know better than I, as I've never had a conversation with Danny, but when he ran for the board I seem to remember him being very pissed off about what money was being spent on and how it was being spent. If he didn't resign specifically because of information he knew about Carolyn, then it follows that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Perhaps Jimbo is right when he says (comically) this is "not of much consequence". Perhaps things very much of consequence are in the future! What I'm saying is, resigning because you know of Carolyn's past and the duties entrusted to her is a pretty good reason to resign. If Danny did not resign because of this, then what the hell else is going on? Ask Cade Metz, I guess... (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) QUOTE(Piperdown @ Fri 14th December 2007, 1:29pm) the GodKing loyal subjects are getting restless. see jimbo talk page today
Ever notice whenever there is a WP scandal, there always seems to be a guy like Rocketpocket around that appears to have the mentally of a 12 year old? Seriously, it happens every time! Check all the recent scandals, there is always a guy like that around.
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QUOTE(BobbyBombastic @ Fri 14th December 2007, 6:59pm) QUOTE(Alkivar @ Fri 14th December 2007, 1:11pm) Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo.
I'm sure you would know better than I, as I've never had a conversation with Danny, but when he ran for the board I seem to remember him being very pissed off about what money was being spent on and how it was being spent. If he didn't resign specifically because of information he knew about Carolyn, then it follows that this is just the tip of the iceberg. Specifically, he accused Florence of misuse of funds. And he seems to have been in support of Carolyn. From the mailing list: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/found...ril/028748.htmlQUOTE Mid january, the board asked Brad to stop being ED [emphasis mine] end of january. At that time, there was no ED, but there was already an ED search planned, so we had high expectations to have an ED within 3-4 months, say may or june.
QUOTE You, Danny, considers that the staff can very well handle itself alone, without any ED. Actually, your opinion is that Carolyn can be the ED. At that point, Carolyn opinion is the same. The board opinion is not the same.
QUOTE But bottom line, this is the board who is choosing the ED. It is not Danny. Carolyn is fabulous as a COO, and I really hope she choose to stick with us, even if we are a mad house. The job of a COO is a different job than the job of the ED. Both are important and essential. But they are different jobs. Period. We talked with Carolyn about all this, and from what we understood, she understand that. She understands the need for an ED.
QUOTE Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line: you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to not answer.
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QUOTE(anthony @ Fri 14th December 2007, 8:13pm) QUOTE Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line: you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to not answer.
Boy, that makes it very clear that Danny did not quit because what he knew (or didn't know) about the COO. Now, why the confidentiality agreement that protects her? This doesn't make any sense at all. But as Danny says they are "all crazy". There's something more, though.
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QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Fri 14th December 2007, 8:23pm) QUOTE Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line: you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to not answer.
Boy, that makes it very clear that Danny did not quit because what he knew (or didn't know) about the COO. Now, why the confidentiality agreement that protects her? This doesn't make any sense at all. But as Danny says they are "all crazy". There's something more, though. Just raises more questions. How exactly did she get placed in the temp position? When did this happen? I can't find any announcement of this. What temp agency was it? We really do need a timeline.
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OKay, I've found Anthere's announcement about Carolyn's leaving her post and she makes a very strange statement: [/url] QUOTE Meanwhile, there is a confidentiality agreement with Carolyn to not further comment. Carolyn has the full right of talking to you, but we, as an organization, can not give details. In the past, there were some questions of how trustworthy the Foundation could be with confidential personal data. The Foundation was blamed because some private data were supposingly revealed and a couple of checkusers preferred to stop being checkusers when we requested them to simply give us proof of their real identity, because they feared that some spills could occur and their private data could become public. So, Carolyn can talk but the foundation can't??? The idea about disclosing private information is just lame. This makes no sense at all.
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Fri 14th December 2007, 4:04pm) Zscout370 has been desysoped by ArbCom for restoring the Carolyn Doran article. It looks like a clerical error... QUOTE * 20:57, 14 December 2007 Jon Harald Søby (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Zscout370@enwiki from (none) to sysop ‎ (i misinterpreted the situation)
* 14:11, 14 December 2007 Jon Harald Søby (Talk | contribs) changed group membership for User:Zscout370@enwiki from sysop to (none) ‎ (per request of the Arbitration Committee) This post has been edited by Moulton:
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http://original-research.blogspot.com/2007/12/uh-what.htmlanother blog post on the subject. He makes a comment about a felon not legally being able to be an officer of a corporation in the US. is that a nation wide thing? or is it a per state thing? This post has been edited by Alkivar:
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QUOTE(Alkivar @ Fri 14th December 2007, 1:11pm) Danny emphatically denies he was asked to resign, and that he quit for reasons other than this bit with Carolyn. My conversation with him does seem to suggest the lack of response from the board now is/was typical. My guess is he left because he got sick of the "oh nevermind" attitude from Flo.
Danny left because he couldn't get along with the board, and the board didn't like his attitude. It's a little more complicated than that, but that's the sum and substance of it. QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:23pm) QUOTE(anthony @ Fri 14th December 2007, 8:13pm) QUOTE Next step was tuesday morning, one hour way from taking my flight. We were in Carolyn office. You entered the room and gave Carolyn your resignation letter. I told you, "please enter the room, close the door and let us talk together about that". You looked at me in a bland fashion, said nothing, went out of the room, closed the door and left the office. Carolyn run after you to ask you what was going on and the only message she brought back is that we were all crazy. Bottom line: you refused to talk to me when I proposed that we talk. It is not normal that you claim I never asked you an explanation, I did and you chose to not answer.
Boy, that makes it very clear that Danny did not quit because what he knew (or didn't know) about the COO. Now, why the confidentiality agreement that protects her? This doesn't make any sense at all. But as Danny says they are "all crazy". There's something more, though. Like I said, his quitting had nothing to do with the COO position. It had to do with the fact that he pissed people off, and other people pissed him off, and eventually a board member's attitude towards him was the straw that broke the camels back. If you ask him nicely, he'll probably tell you exactly what.
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GlassBeadGame |
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QUOTE(the fieryangel @ Fri 14th December 2007, 4:09pm) OKay, I've found Anthere's announcement about Carolyn's leaving her post and she makes a very strange statement: [/url] QUOTE Meanwhile, there is a confidentiality agreement with Carolyn to not further comment. Carolyn has the full right of talking to you, but we, as an organization, can not give details. In the past, there were some questions of how trustworthy the Foundation could be with confidential personal data. The Foundation was blamed because some private data were supposingly revealed and a couple of checkusers preferred to stop being checkusers when we requested them to simply give us proof of their real identity, because they feared that some spills could occur and their private data could become public. So, Carolyn can talk but the foundation can't??? The idea about disclosing private information is just lame. This makes no sense at all. Odd indeed. The party permitted to speak in a confidentiality agreement is usually the person that is holding all the cards. How could that be? Is it possible that WMF was that unskilled and artless in negotiating Carolyn's separation? Or is it possible that Carolyn had some significant leverage in the discussions?
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QUOTE It occurs to me that Carolyn was either incredibly careless in her efforts to evade local Virginia authorities, or over-confident that she was protected. Did she run out of "get out of jail free" cards when she split to Florida? Why did she take the risk of traveling to a WMF meeting in Europe? Wasn't she worried about U.S. Customs and their computers? How dumb do you have to be?
Pretty dumb. But most dumb people don't know they are dumb, and a dumb person wouldn't know there was a database with people who have parole restrictions in place. A dumb person wouldn't imagine that she would get caught. I knew a woman who avoided arrest by entering the U.S. via Canada. She got caught when she got sick of hiding. I didn't know this about her arrest record, and was really surprised to learn she was in jail (serious lady). She was a smart woman, and very well educated. But it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that you are on a database, and can (and will) be caught. Maybe Carolyn wasn't one of the sharper knives. QUOTE(Daniel Brandt @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:22pm) If there's a pattern of amazing leniency for her legal transgressions in Virginia, together with spooky connections in addition to those we already know about, then this would be very interesting. It would also raise further questions about her incredible rise from temp to COO at the Foundation. Carolyn may have been "sent" to work in the Office.
Oh come on. You think they'd send someone with her background to be their "agency asset?". Out of all the people in the world, they would pick someone with a felony history? And that person, being a CIA agent, would be caught at Customs? Their handler wouldnt inform them they should not travel?
It makes no sense. ok, I read your other edit. You said that this is common. I guess you have perspective I don't. This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:04pm) Zscout370 has been desysoped by ArbCom for restoring the Carolyn Doran article. Sounds to me like a "last hurrah" swipe back at Jimbo for that ban.
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(from above) QUOTE QUOTE Bothwell (CAROLYN DORAN, MAIDEN NAME BOTHWELL) who has a pending credit card forgery case in Loudoun , WHAT???????????This post has been edited by Disillusioned Lackey:
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Rootology |
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QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Fri 14th December 2007, 9:32pm) (from above) QUOTE QUOTE Bothwell (CAROLYN DORAN, MAIDEN NAME BOTHWELL) who has a pending credit card forgery case in Loudoun , WHAT???????????Nice employee screening there, Florence and Jimmy. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with everyone over there? Late audits, financial criminals in charge of the financial books?
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QUOTE(Disillusioned Lackey @ Fri 14th December 2007, 7:52pm) QUOTE(tarantino @ Fri 14th December 2007, 3:04pm) Zscout370 has been desysoped by ArbCom for restoring the Carolyn Doran article. Sounds to me like a "last hurrah" swipe back at Jimbo for that ban. Okay, so the stewards are incompetent. Desysop has since been reversed, apparently he "misunderstood the situation".
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QUOTE(Rootology @ Sat 15th December 2007, 1:23am) Nice employee screening there, Florence and Jimmy. Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with everyone over there? Late audits, financial criminals in charge of the financial books?
Don't forget the misleadingly-completed Form 990 -- where they say that Wikia, Inc. is a "related organization" (Line 80a), but that none of the board of directors (including Wales, Beesley, and Davis) share a "business relationship" (Line 75b), even though Wales, Beesley, and Davis are all principals at Wikia, Inc.! Humroo? Seriously, how is it that the IRS has not brought forth an investigation of this organization yet? Greg
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QUOTE(guy @ Sat 15th December 2007, 9:21am) QUOTE(Amarkov @ Sat 15th December 2007, 6:26am) Okay, so the stewards are incompetent. Desysop has since been reversed, apparently he "misunderstood the situation".
Incompetent, or just misinformed into believing that ArbCom had agreed something when it hadn't? It's not clear, actually. It seemed a lot more obvious before all the "well maybe he should be desysopped" hints started being dropped. This post has been edited by Amarkov:
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I just want to say that what I'm gathering from threads over on the Foundation-l list, I have come to the personal conclusion that: 1) Probably all the Board knew about Carolyn Bothwell Doran's legal problems (just prior to her departure from the WMF office) was her DUI charge. I am imagining that she came to the Board, said she would be tied up with DUI charge, it wouldn't look good for the Foundation, and that she would like to submit her resignation and leave peacefully. She probably also asked that the Foundation not disclose this in public, in her hopes to not have her other skeletons discovered by the general public. 2) The boyfriend-shooting, check bouncing, credit card fraud, relationship with the woman who poisoned her lover, husband who drowned, etc. were all probably not known by the entire Board of Trustees until after the Register article broke. I am convinced that some staffer or staffers, and perhaps one (maybe two?) Board members may have known at least something about these other crimes and tragedies, but out of some allegiance to Carolyn, did not publicize these issues. 3) One of these insiders had to have tipped off Cade Metz and helped him build his story. 4) In the two hours between Mike Godwin's call with Cade Metz and the publication of the story, nobody thought it was important to start investigating Carolyn's background -- probably because what they THOUGHT Metz was going to publish merely involved the DUI charge. The Foundation's response to the Carolyn Fiasco is beginning to appear somewhat more tolerable to me; although I still cannot "forgive" the Foundation in this case. Why? Because I have been trying to point out equally shocking financial indiscretions that probably permeate the Wikipedia/Wikia marriage; yet, I am largely ignored by those with the power to actually put a stop to those problems. They have a historical pattern of ignoring or denying major problems when they are thrust in their faces, so I can't have much pity for them that they did only a semi-poor job of handling this particular Fiasco. I'm suspect if we wait long enough, Jimbo will be quoted in the New York Times, saying, "I regard it as a staffing boo-boo, and I don't really have a problem with it." And all the drones will get back to work on Wikipedia, Wikia, and Wikia Search, so that Jimbo's luxurious retirement can be further guaranteed. Greg
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anthony |
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Sun 16th December 2007, 6:19am) I just want to say that what I'm gathering from threads over on the Foundation-l list, I have come to the personal conclusion that: 1) Probably all the Board knew about Carolyn Bothwell Doran's legal problems (just prior to her departure from the WMF office) was her DUI charge. I am imagining that she came to the Board, said she would be tied up with DUI charge, it wouldn't look good for the Foundation, and that she would like to submit her resignation and leave peacefully. She probably also asked that the Foundation not disclose this in public, in her hopes to not have her other skeletons discovered by the general public. 2) The boyfriend-shooting, check bouncing, credit card fraud, relationship with the woman who poisoned her lover, husband who drowned, etc. were all probably not known by the entire Board of Trustees until after the Register article broke. I am convinced that some staffer or staffers, and perhaps one (maybe two?) Board members may have known at least something about these other crimes and tragedies, but out of some allegiance to Carolyn, did not publicize these issues. 3) One of these insiders had to have tipped off Cade Metz and helped him build his story. 4) In the two hours between Mike Godwin's call with Cade Metz and the publication of the story, nobody thought it was important to start investigating Carolyn's background -- probably because what they THOUGHT Metz was going to publish merely involved the DUI charge. I think you're right on, except for number 3. Finding the extradition to Virginia was really easy. Once someone noticed that it's perfectly possible they'd start looking deeper. I seem to remember questioning the departure of Carolyn here on WR. Someone pointed out that she was a local hire (from a temp agency in St. Pete) and therefore unlikely to be involved in the deeper corruption of Wikipedia. Indeed, unless we come up with some really complicated conspiracy theories, Carolyn's background is little more than a strange coincidence. (It also goes to show you that the people running Wikipedia either don't care about criminals running their organization or that they are too inept to know about it, but I for one already knew that.) Hopefully this revelation will at least have people looking harder at the WMF's financials. Maybe someone should send a copy of the story to their auditors, on the off chance they didn't already know about it. Unless you think that'd just have them looking in the wrong direction.
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Sun 16th December 2007, 1:19am) I just want to say that what I'm gathering from threads over on the Foundation-l list, I have come to the personal conclusion that: 1) Probably all the Board knew about Carolyn Bothwell Doran's legal problems (just prior to her departure from the WMF office) was her DUI charge. I am imagining that she came to the Board, said she would be tied up with DUI charge, it wouldn't look good for the Foundation, and that she would like to submit her resignation and leave peacefully. She probably also asked that the Foundation not disclose this in public, in her hopes to not have her other skeletons discovered by the general public. 2) The boyfriend-shooting, check bouncing, credit card fraud, relationship with the woman who poisoned her lover, husband who drowned, etc. were all probably not known by the entire Board of Trustees until after the Register article broke. I am convinced that some staffer or staffers, and perhaps one (maybe two?) Board members may have known at least something about these other crimes and tragedies, but out of some allegiance to Carolyn, did not publicize these issues. 3) One of these insiders had to have tipped off Cade Metz and helped him build his story. 4) In the two hours between Mike Godwin's call with Cade Metz and the publication of the story, nobody thought it was important to start investigating Carolyn's background -- probably because what they THOUGHT Metz was going to publish merely involved the DUI charge. The Foundation's response to the Carolyn Fiasco is beginning to appear somewhat more tolerable to me; although I still cannot "forgive" the Foundation in this case. Why? Because I have been trying to point out equally shocking financial indiscretions that probably permeate the Wikipedia/Wikia marriage; yet, I am largely ignored by those with the power to actually put a stop to those problems. They have a historical pattern of ignoring or denying major problems when they are thrust in their faces, so I can't have much pity for them that they did only a semi-poor job of handling this particular Fiasco. I'm suspect if we wait long enough, Jimbo will be quoted in the New York Times, saying, "I regard it as a staffing boo-boo, and I don't really have a problem with it." And all the drones will get back to work on Wikipedia, Wikia, and Wikia Search, so that Jimbo's luxurious retirement can be further guaranteed. Greg What needs to be taken away from this story is that the WMF, in the midst of a fund raising drive, has proven itself institutionally incapable of exercising the due diligence need to determine the most basic publicly available facts about the person who was for a significant period of time the go-to-person in relation to the corporation's most fundamental financial controls. Getting involved in the interpersonal dramas, petty betrayals, and exculpatory whinings of various actors will only cloud this lesson. Once again the issue is at bottom not wiki drama but social responsibility.
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QUOTE(GlassBeadGame @ Sun 16th December 2007, 5:10pm) What needs to be taken away from this story is that the WMF, in the midst of a fund raising drive, has proven itself institutionally incapable of exercising the due diligence need to determine the most basic publicly available facts about the person who was for a significant period of time the go-to-person in relation to the corporation's most fundamental financial controls. Getting involved in the interpersonal dramas, petty betrayals, and exculpatory whinings of various actors will only cloud this lesson. Once again the issue is at bottom not wiki drama but social responsibility.
Put simply, they are fund-raising yet they cannot show that they have spent the money they have properly. The business itself is small and simple, even if its reach is wide. I mean, how many invoices are there to check? I would have thought this was classic brown paper bag accounting - tip out the receipts on the table, get the calculator and spreadsheet going and a couple of hours later any decent accountant has re-done the books. If they cannot reconstruct the accounts, then it means something is missing, or something has been done wrong, like accidentally mixing up charity and Jimbo's private money. This post has been edited by dogbiscuit:
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