Oingo Boingo & User:Jpgordon, ...WP is for Lovers......of inclusion Options

[Piperdown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jpgordon

says he was in Oingo Boingo. Lead trumpet. Sounds notable to me, as far an uberinclusionism goes. If you bat one time for the 1928 St Louis Browns, you're notable, as WP goes.

so why isn't he listed in the right-hand box with the rest of the boingos here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oingo_Boingo

Gordon's a fascinating guy.

One thing I notice that could tied into the whole Gerard vs Scientology thing. Gordon worked at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMS_Associates,_Inc.

That article has an uncited edited saying that all key(?) employees were subjected to "EST" Training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training

From there it leads to the BLP of a 'former scientologist" named Erhard.

Geez....do the (anti)scientology-WP Admin connections ever end? lol

I've come to the conclusion that everyone in the WP cabal either used to advocate against Scientology or LaRouche, or for Ayn Rand. Eliminate that, and what's left?

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Sun 26th October 2008, 5:32pm

[Somey]

so why isn't he listed in the right-hand box with the rest of the boingos here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oingo_Boingo

As I recall, he was actually in "The Mystical Knights of the Oingo Boingo," which was sort of a precursor to the Oingo Boingo we all now know and love(d). Supposedly he left the group before they recorded their first album as just "Oingo Boingo," so his name isn't on anything in the Oingo Boingo discography... but apparently Danny Elfman & Co. performed under that name for at least three years prior to their first album.

This brings back the memories... maybe I should dig out the ol' turntable and give a listen to "Cry of the Vatos," for old times' sake.

[Piperdown]

so why isn't he listed in the right-hand box with the rest of the boingos here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oingo_Boingo

As I recall, he was actually in "The Mystical Knights of the Oingo Boingo," which was sort of a precursor to the Oingo Boingo we all now know and love(d). Supposedly he left the group before they recorded their first album as just "Oingo Boingo," so his name isn't on anything in the Oingo Boingo discography... but apparently Danny Elfman & Co. performed under that name for at least three years prior to their first album.

This brings back the memories... maybe I should dig out the ol' turntable and give a listen to "Cry of the Vatos," for old times' sake.

many musical articles i've perused are all-inclusive of members that performed with a group even prior to released albums....i guess there just haven't been any Mystical Knights fanboys (we loved them before they sold out, man! they were *our* band! it was real then!) editing WP to give Josh his due.

Toot your own horn josh! after all, there's no WP:COI rulez any more after the Jossi affair.

[Milton Roe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Jpgordon

says he was in Oingo Boingo. Lead trumpet. Sounds notable to me, as far an uberinclusionism goes. If you bat one time for the 1928 St Louis Browns, you're notable, as WP goes.

so why isn't he listed in the right-hand box with the rest of the boingos here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oingo_Boingo

Gordon's a fascinating guy.

One thing I notice that could tied into the whole Gerard vs Scientology thing. Gordon worked at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IMS_Associates,_Inc.

That article has an uncited edited saying that all key(?) employees were subjected to "EST" Training.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erhard_Seminars_Training

From there it leads to the BLP of a 'former scientologist" named Erhard.

Geez....do the (anti)scientology-WP Admin connections ever end? lol

I've come to the conclusion that everyone in the WP cabal either used to advocate against Scientology or LaRouche, or for Ayn Rand. Eliminate that, and what's left?

An old Nationmaster Encyclopedia scrape of WP

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Oingo-Boingo

Gives all the trumpet players, and there indeed is Josh Gordon, 1973-75:

Dale Turner ?— Trumpet, trombone
Billy Superball 1972–1975, 1976–1978 Trumpet, Upright & Fender Bass Aka William Folwell. Appears in the Bill Murray movie Loose Shoes
Josh Gordon 1973–1975 Trumpet, sousaphone, banjar, guitar

[Piperdown]

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=220639516

lol!

[Piperdown]

ah.....josh was moved to here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oingo...go_band_members

so the rightside box in the main article is just for the modern, live-ball era of the boingo. Deletionist snobs!

in that table, one ex-Knight has his personal webpage linked. Didn't know that was completely kosher, but no harm no selfpromo foul.

The least that josh could have is a link to his WP userpage, dontchathink? He has it on his own userpage, so do a Mystical Brother a favour, link it there too. Plus you might get "brownie points" with a CU/Arb/WP God. The man's had to go through EST training for your wikisins, he deserves some kudos.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Sun 26th October 2008, 6:01pm

[Piperdown]

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 17:40:51 -0700
From: Josh Gordon <josh@furface.com>
Subject: MKOB cast members...

Hiya! I can add some information to your Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo list. I was a member of the band between '73 and late '75 -- I played trumpet, tuba, guitar, and whatever else they threw in my face. Here's some names to add:

Me (Josh Gordon). (I went to school with Steve Bartek, and he was buddies with my big brother Peter; Steve played with me at my very first professional theater gig, "Threepenny Opera" at the Odyssey Theatre, directed by Ron Sossi; Steve, Peter, and I were in the band.)

All of Foster Brashear's stuff is correct.
William Winant played with the band in that period (great percussionist.) The sword swallower is Jan Munro. He was also a good slack-rope walker and fire-breather. In fact, I think he may have mostly been a fire breather. Billy Superball we called the World's Worst Escape Artist.
I sure wish I remembered the accordionist's name! Both she and her brother were quite good accordionists.

Some other places we played: besides the Daisy in Beverly Hills, we had an ongoing gig at the Century City Playhouse (a couple blocks away, the Kentucky Fried Theater was in full swing.) We played at a great big house, formerly a speakeasy, in Topanga Canyon; I don't remember the name of the place, but it was owned by the orchestra bassist Mickey Nadel. We also played a lot on the streets of Westwood to promote our shows. We did a lot of private parties, too; my last gig with them was a New Years Eve party in 1975-1976. We played several times at the Great American Food & Beverage Companies; we also performed at Filmex for the premier of "Flesh for Frankenstein". And we played bit parts in the truly abominable film "Mr Sycamore."

We also did some recording at a college TV station, or maybe it was a small public TV station -- I think it might have been Santa Monica City College or something like that. I'd love to know if those tapes still exist!

Long ago and far away...


Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 17:45:50 -0700
From: Josh Gordon <josh@furface.com>
Subject: Oh one more thing...

The song "Hipsters on Parade" was written by one of the original Mystic Knights of the Oingo Boingo members who had left before I joined the grooup: Ernie Fosselius, who went on to do the lovely parody films "Hardware Wars" and "Porklips Now".

http://www.raptorial.com/Boingo/About/knights.html

[Piperdown]

fyi, josh's notable dad just passed in june

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0330165/bio

Biography for
Edwin Gordon
Date of Birth
20 January 1925, New York, New York, USA

Date of Death
23 June 2008, Los Angeles, California, USA

Nickname
Ed

Mini Biography

VOA correspondent for 25 years; playwright and biographer; now living in Tarzana, California; father of composer/performer Peter Gordon, musician/engineer Alex Gordon, and programmer/musician Josh Gordon. The Chosen (1981) is his only film credit to date.
IMDb Mini Biography By: josh@furface.com

Spouse
Norma Schnall Gordon (1946 - 30 January 1993) (her death) 3 children

Personal Quotes

"That's why we don't go on trips."

sorry bout yer dad, josh.

[Neil]

That IMS_Associates,_Inc. article sucks a lot less, now.

[GlassBeadGame]

That IMS_Associates,_Inc. article sucks a lot less, now.

Although not used in the article I'm pretty certain that EST claim is also made by Freiberger and Swaine in Fire in the Valley which ought to easily clear any "source" hurdles.

[Neil]

Although not used in the article I'm pretty certain that EST claim is also made by Freiberger and Swaine in Fire in the Valley which ought to easily clear any "source" hurdles.

It is indeed made there, also - duly added. Thanks for the info.

[C H]

fyi, josh's notable dad just passed in june
sorry bout yer dad, josh.

Sad, the Sidaway/Vandenberg unpleasantness was a mere 2-3 weeks later.

[Milton Roe]

Although not used in the article I'm pretty certain that EST claim is also made by Freiberger and Swaine in Fire in the Valley which ought to easily clear any "source" hurdles.

It is indeed made there, also - duly added. Thanks for the info.

Some of my friends and even my teachers did EST back when it was big in the very early 80's. The idea is that you submit yourself to the influence of some guru who won't even let you go to the bathroom, and you actually DO this, like a child, for long sessions for many days. And when you finally "get" the idea that don't really need to listen to the orders of assholes who think they're gurus, they say "Congratulations! You have gotten the idea of the training!"

Well, I knew that before the training, and saved a lot of money by not doing the training. I did get a big at the idea of my friends voluntarily sitting there squirming, and paying to squirm.

I'm not surprised that so many Wikipowers are former victims of other cults and other gurus. And on WP, they still haven't learned. Some deprogramming is in order, and that's part of why WR interests me. Some people will do anything they're given permission to do. And they can't resist society-like structures with a lot of rules, in which they can lord it over others, or be lorded-over.

Here's the secret to WP: Jimbo Wales is an asshole. So are many of the people who work for him, that he has empowered. He, and they, are not actually wiser than the average person, or wiser than you and me. Wikipedia manages to pull off its informational stunts ONLY because it draws, piecemeal, on the volunteer expertise of hundreds of thousands of people, and that is possible because of the internet, and software invented by a guy named Cunningham, and put into use to make an encyclopedia by a guy named Sanger. Who both deserve some admiration for their ideas. That is all.

If you're thinking about Landmark Education, a sort of EST-lite, but from the same guy Erhard, save your money also. The message is the same, but the idea is still that, in order to get it, you have to pay a lot to hear somebody tell you that you don't have to pay for the idea that you don't have to be victimized by blowhards who think they are gurus. The irony.

Here's the version I learned on scuba dive-boats. Listen to yourself. Learn from people who know more than you do about particular subjects, and teach when you find somebody who knows less, and wants to know more. But otherwise, avoid all authority situations like the plague, unless there's absolutely no choice. Run! You could get that from Ralph Waldo Emerson, for nothing (he's on Wikisource) if you're willing to put in the time to concentrate on print, instead of having to hear it from some boob with amplified voice due to a microphone.

And now, you have permission to use the bathroom. And you don't even have to pay me.

Milton

[Cla68]

so why isn't he listed in the right-hand box with the rest of the boingos here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oingo_Boingo

As I recall, he was actually in "The Mystical Knights of the Oingo Boingo," which was sort of a precursor to the Oingo Boingo we all now know and love(d). Supposedly he left the group before they recorded their first album as just "Oingo Boingo," so his name isn't on anything in the Oingo Boingo discography... but apparently Danny Elfman & Co. performed under that name for at least three years prior to their first album.

This brings back the memories... maybe I should dig out the ol' turntable and give a listen to "Cry of the Vatos," for old times' sake.

My Oingo Boingo cd's have been disappearing lately. I think my wife has been hiding them so I'll stop playing them in the minivan during family excursions.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

after all, there's no WP:COI rulez any more after the Jossi affair.

Somehow, I missed that one. What was the Jossi affair?

[Cla68]

after all, there's no WP:COI rulez any more after the Jossi affair.

Somehow, I missed that one. What was the Jossi affair?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...tion/Prem_Rawat

[Proabivouac]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...tion/Prem_Rawat

Here is what the Arbitrators call "neutral":

At the heart of Rawat's teachings lies the message that the human need for fulfillment can be satisfied by turning inward to discover a constant source of joy within. His message is supported by four techniques, together known as Knowledge, which enable the practitioner to feel the experience Rawat talks about. Rawat's offer of a direct experience of transcendence, stresses an individual subjective experience, rather than on a body of dogma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prem_Rawat

[Milton Roe]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...tion/Prem_Rawat

Here is what the Arbitrators call "neutral":

At the heart of Rawat's teachings lies the message that the human need for fulfillment can be satisfied by turning inward to discover a constant source of joy within. His message is supported by four techniques, together known as Knowledge, which enable the practitioner to feel the experience Rawat talks about. Rawat's offer of a direct experience of transcendence, stresses an individual subjective experience, rather than on a body of dogma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prem_Rawat

And for this, you should send money.

Pissed-off former-Rawatians call themselves "ex-premies": http://www.ex-premie.org/

Some of them are pretty pissed off.

[Somey]

Some of them are pretty pissed off.

And apparently they know a fair amount about Jossi Fresco, too, though I don't see any indication that they know he's Wikipedia admin.

This was pretty funny - they found some minimalist verse Jossi had written and they "critiqued" it (see the post immediately below the linked one):

http://www.ex-premie.org/archives/archive....4754.9841741635

[Cla68]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Req...tion/Prem_Rawat

Here is what the Arbitrators call "neutral":

At the heart of Rawat's teachings lies the message that the human need for fulfillment can be satisfied by turning inward to discover a constant source of joy within. His message is supported by four techniques, together known as Knowledge, which enable the practitioner to feel the experience Rawat talks about. Rawat's offer of a direct experience of transcendence, stresses an individual subjective experience, rather than on a body of dogma.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prem_Rawat

One of the funniest episodes with Jossi and the Rawat article occurred when some editors tried to include a picture of Rawat's mansion along with its price tag in the article. Jossi was in rare form on that one. I'll try to find some links to it later.