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[Newsfeed]

Define Gender Gap? Look Up Wikipedia's Contributor List

Noam Cohen • New York Times • 30 Jan 2011
In 10 short years, Wikipedia has accomplished some remarkable goals. More than 3.5 million articles in English? Done. More than 250 languages? Sure. …

[Jon Awbrey]

Being an old-fangled Peirce-James-Dewey pragmatist, I strongly believe in a life of learning by doing.

And what I see the Common 87% Man doing and learning in Wikiputia is more than anything else an unexamined life of moral and intellectual cowardice.

Whether it's by nature or by accident I don't really care, but I can hardly help but rejoice that any fraction of humanity is spared that manner of learning by doing.

Jon Awbrey

[Kwork]

Being an old-fangled Peirce-James-Dewey pragmatist, I strongly believe in a life of learning by doing.

And what I see the Common 87% Man doing and learning in Wikiputia is more than anything else an unexamined life of moral and intellectual cowardice.

Whether it's by nature or by accident I don't really care, but I can hardly help but rejoice that any fraction of humanity is spared that manner of learning by doing.

Jon Awbrey

If its possible, you should put this up some of this over the entrance to the WR Meta Forum. It sums up a lot of important things with very few words.

[Jon Awbrey]

Being an old-fangled Peirce-James-Dewey pragmatist, I strongly believe in a life of learning by doing.

And what I see the Common 87% Man doing and learning in Wikiputia is more than anything else an unexamined life of moral and intellectual cowardice.

Whether it's by nature or by accident I don't really care, but I can hardly help but rejoice that any fraction of humanity is spared that manner of learning by doing.

Jon Awbrey

If its possible, you should put this up some of this over the entrance to the WR Meta Forum. It sums up a lot of important things with very few words.

Yeah, I got all e-couraged and x-cited for a moment there, because even Milton started e-spousing that “learning by doing” line, even if he seemed to think it was some kind of new-fangled notion, but that's okay, because the next think-to-do after that is to reflect on what yer actually doing, to realize that it's what yer really learning, and what yer really teaching others to e-mulate.

But he just as wikly scurried back under the cover of “Content Is All” (CIA), keep yer gnosis to the grimestone, and don't worry yer pretty little shaven head over the sound of tinkling glass and the smell of death all around you.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Milton Roe]

Yeah, I got all e-couraged and x-cited for a moment there, because even Milton started e-spousing that “learning by doing” line, even if he seemed to think it was some kind of new-fangled notion, but that's okay, because the next think-to-do after that is to reflect on what yer actually doing, to realize that it's what yer really learning, and what yer really teaching others to e-mulate.

But he just as wikly scurried back under the cover of “Content Is All” (CIA), keep yer gnosis to the grimestone, and don't worry yer pretty little shaven head over the sound of tinkling glass and the smell of death all around you.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

It's perfectly fine to avoid learning by doing, but instead learn vicariously, when it comes to murder and mayhem. We try to teach with minimal damage. However, WP is not murder and mayhem. There are no actual shaven heads or actual killings there. All there are, are a bunch of conniving bastards who are out of control socially. They can't actually hurt you, as they are digital.

So-- it's exactly the kind of thing you should learn by direct experience, as you wouldn't really believe it any other way, and direct experience isn't going to get you dead, or anybody else dead. And learning by direct experience is pretty hard to avoid, if you edit WP as an ordinary non-admin, and you happen to be a subject-matter-expert in the field in which you edit. Which is doubtless why Gardner avoids editing, and Jimbo never edits under a nom-de-plume (we saw what happened to his editing with Mzoli's). They're all avoiding learning-by-doing, like mad, because it would destroy the world-view and the lie they depend on. Because nobody can edit WP much as an expert, with no special protection, without learning viscerally that there's something very wrong with the place.

As for you, Jon-- you hypocrite-- you learned-by-doing YOURSELF. But NOW, you want people to just listen to the wisdom of Jon, and not do that. You do NOT want to have people figure out for themselves what the problems are. And when they do, all you do is laugh at them for being chronologically behind YOU. Like that really helps.

Your problem, Jon, is that you're a "learn by doing" SNOB.

[Jon Awbrey]

Yeah, I got all e-couraged and x-cited for a moment there, because even Milton started e-spousing that “learning by doing” line, even if he seemed to think it was some kind of new-fangled notion, but that's okay, because the next think-to-do after that is to reflect on what yer actually doing, to realize that it's what yer really learning, and what yer really teaching others to e-mulate.

But he just as wikly scurried back under the cover of “Content Is All” (CIA), keep yer gnosis to the grimestone, and don't worry yer pretty little shaven head over the sound of tinkling glass and the smell of death all around you.

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

It's perfectly fine to avoid learning by doing, but instead learn vicariously, when it comes to murder and mayhem. We try to teach with minimal damage. However, WP is not murder and mayhem. There are no actual shaven heads or actual killings there. All there are, are a bunch of conniving bastards who are out of control socially. They can't actually hurt you, as they are digital.

So — it's exactly the kind of thing you should learn by direct experience, as you wouldn't really believe it any other way, and direct experience isn't going to get you dead, or anybody else dead. And learning by direct experience is pretty hard to avoid, if you edit WP as an ordinary non-admin, and you happen to be a subject-matter-expert in the field in which you edit. Which is doubtless why Gardner avoids editing, and Jimbo never edits under a nom-de-plume (we saw what happened to his editing with Mzoli's). They're all avoiding learning-by-doing, like mad, because it would destroy the world-view and the lie they depend on. Because nobody can edit WP much as an expert, with no special protection, without learning viscerally that there's something very wrong with the place.

As for you, Jon — you hypocrite — you learned-by-doing YOURSELF. But NOW, you want people to just listen to the wisdom of Jon, and not do that. You do NOT want to have people figure out for themselves what the problems are. And when they do, all you do is laugh at them for being chronologically behind YOU. Like that really helps.

Your problem, Jon, is that you're a "learn by doing" SNOB.

UhOh, sounds like I stepped on somebuddy's surplice. That's okay, Milton, one day you'll accidentally do something spineful enough to get permabanned — the sine qua non of genu-whine e-lightenment about Wikipedia — and then you can join the rest of us bony-fried e-habitants of Wiki-Paradise Lost.

Let us know if there's anything we can do to Hasten the Day —

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Milton Roe]

UhOh, sounds like I stepped on somebuddy's surplice. That's okay, Milton, one day you'll accidentally do something spineful enough to get permabanned — the sine qua non of genu-whine e-lightenment about Wikipedia — and then you can join the rest of us bony-fried e-habitants of Wiki-Paradise Lost.

Let us know if there's anything we can do to Hasten the Day —

Jon (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

Oh, that day may come. One of these days I'll may not be able to control my anger at some fuckwit, and they'll find an excuse to ban me, especially knowing very well who I am HERE and who I am THERE.

The problem is this: I don't really have anything to lose THERE, except my username, which doesn't count, as I have no powerz, and it's already under a secret cloud. So, it will be a favor in some ways. I don't give a shit about administration. I've already learned that nobody is interested in my ideas for reform. So, WTF cares? The only reason I keep the username I was "born" with on WP, is that it carries just a little bit of reputation in some fields where I edit. But not enough to be important. Such things are transient, and on WP, they don't really count that much.

If I get the ban, I'll rotate my IP and probably go back as somebody else (I'm thinking of user:Tetrass). I have a broad enough range of interests that nobody will ever know, and if they suspect, there won't be anything they can do. My editing on WP won't change much. My writing here won't change much. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

What's more, they (by THEY I mean the powerz that be on WP) have already have figured all that out. Which is possibly why they haven't been very interested in getting my classic username blocked. When I edit WP NOW as the person who was outed as Milton Roe in the Poetguy affair, at least they can still watch what I'm doing, if they're at all interested (good luck sucking down that basic physics, you WikiPricks (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif) ).

But once they ban me under my original and longstanding username, they understand that they can't even do THAT. I'll simply shift to editing the history of ancient Rome or something else (you figure it out from my posting history on WR and you MIGHT be right. Or not). But on WP, that means I'm gone without a ripple.

Allow me to point out that it makes almost no difference to ME what username I edit WP under, and that fact makes me completely free. Free in a way that Jimmy Wales and Sue Gardner and most of the toxic and well-known admins on WP, cannot begin to fathom.