SlimVirgin's new presentation on "Cyberstalking", ...does she mean "her" cyberstalking or other cyberstalking? Options

[the fieryangel]

File this under "hmmmm"....

Off of "foundation-l"

From: wikimediameta-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikimediameta-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Slim
Virgin
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:25 PM
To: wikimediameta-l at lists.wikimedia.org
Subject: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and cyberstalking

I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to
hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the
extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible
improving their responses to it.

I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline
stalking that have happened to users as a result of their
participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where
the target was picked on because they were an administrator.

If you've been a target of this yourself, or if you know of anyone who
has, I'd appreciate hearing from you at slimvirgin at gmail dot com.
All replies will be received in strictest confidence. Your name would
not have to be included in the final document, and if you're worried
about being exposed in any way, I can change all identifying details.
Nothing will be included about you without your express permission.

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or
harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find
support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you
anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in
any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with
the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears
felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to
additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members
of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part
because of that.

Many thanks,

Sarah

_______________________________________________
Wikimediameta-l mailing list
Wikimediameta-l at lists.wikimedia.org
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimediameta-l

Sheez, most of you probably think of me as a pinko leftism neo-feminist, but she's really got some nerve to ask about "women" and "gays" feeling specific harassment.

Where's Camila Paglia when you need her???

[Jonny Cache]

File this under "hmmmm"....

Off of "foundation-l"

Subj: [Wikimediameta-l] Wikimedia and Cyberstalking
From: wikimediameta-l-bounces at lists.wikimedia.org On Behalf Of Slim Virgin
Sent: Monday, September 03, 2007 10:25 PM
To: wikimediameta-l at lists.wikimedia.org

I'm writing a paper on cyberstalking and harassment, which I hope to hand to the Foundation with a view to educating people about the extent of the problem on the Wikimedia projects, and if possible improving their responses to it.

I'd like to include some concrete examples of cyberstalking or offline stalking that have happened to users as a result of their participation in any of the Wikimedia projects, and particularly where the target was picked on because they were an administrator.

If you've been a target of this yourself, or if you know of anyone who has, I'd appreciate hearing from you at slimvirgin at gmail dot com. All replies will be received in strictest confidence. Your name would not have to be included in the final document, and if you're worried about being exposed in any way, I can change all identifying details. Nothing will be included about you without your express permission.

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

I'd also like to hear from women who feel they were subjected to additional harassment because of their sex, or from gays and members of ethnic minorities who feel they were picked on in whole or in part because of that.

Many thanks,

Sarah

Sheez, most of you probably think of me as a pinko leftism neo-feminist, but she's really got some nerve to ask about "women" and "gays" feeling specific harassment.

Where's Camille Paglia when you need her ???

I imagine Sarah Mac "The Knife" can knock out a screenplay pretty wikipronto, but I don't how it will sell.

Maybe if she retitles its CyberSilkStalkings — modulo a small bit of IP (no, the other IP) wiki-wheeler-dealing — it might just cache some producer's eye.

Sadly, the perfect candidate, Ed Wood, has gone to his reward, but maybe we can find another Sucker, er, Candi-Date to pick up the option.

Hint Hint …

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[Herschelkrustofsky]

"...particularly where the target was picked on because they were an administrator"? Dang. My heart goes out to those poor administrators. First they are routinely treated as second-class citizens by the hoi polloi, and now this.

[Daniel Brandt]

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

Sounds to me like she believes Libyan agents are trying to kidnap her poodle.

[Jonny Cache]

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

Sounds to me like she believes Libyan agents are trying to kidnap her poodle.

Not that I'm offering to be her agent or anything of the kind — the title of "met-agent" sounds too much like "mutagen" to look good on a bizness card — but I think we ought to help her with titles for her F&SF piece.

Right now I'm torn between these three:

• CyberSilkStalkings
• China Doll Slimdrone
• Driving Pierre Salinger Dazy

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[Kato]

Where's Camila Paglia when you need her???

Probably wondering why she's been described as a "retard", and a c**t who needs "a cock to suck on" in an encyclopedia article.

[Joseph100]

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

Sounds to me like she believes Libyan agents are trying to kidnap her poodle.

Not that I'm offering to be her agent or anything of the kind — the title of "met-agent" sounds too much like "mutagen" to look good on a bizness card — but I think we ought to help her with titles for her F&SF piece.

Right now I'm torn between these three:

• CyberSilkStalkings
• China Doll Slimdrone
• Driving Pierre Salinger Dazy

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Will there be T and A ??? The obligatory love scene with the big breasted babe?

Oh well, I'm so bad...

[Jonny Cache]

What I'm most interested in hearing about is how the cyberstalking or harassment made you feel, and what happened when you tried to find support. I'd like to hear about your fears; whether it made you anxious; whether it affected your sleep or appetite, or your health in any other way; and whether you considered ending your association with the project you were involved in (or did end it). Even if your fears felt completely irrational, I'd like to hear about them.

Sounds to me like she believes Libyan agents are trying to kidnap her poodle.

Not that I'm offering to be her agent or anything of the kind — the title of "met-agent" sounds too much like "mutagen" to look good on a bizness card — but I think we ought to help her with titles for her F&SF piece.

Right now I'm torn between these three:

• CyberSilkStalkings
• China Doll Slimdrone
• Driving Pierre Salinger Dazy

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Will there be T and A ??? The obligatory love scene with the big breasted babe?

Oh well, I'm so bad …

There may be TA's — you'll have to ask Ms. T …

But I get the feeling that you may be confusing this picture with Whatever Happened To Bimbo Jimbo, which is being shot on a lot across town — way, waaay, waaaaay across town.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[LamontStormstar]

The irony of SlimVirgin complaining about cyberstalking is that she and especially her buddy Jayjg have had done more cyberstalking to others than everyone else has done to the two of them.

[Nathan]

Yes. Isn't that ironic?

Let's forget that it's SV for a moment. I could probably make a pretty good contribution to such a study. But considering it is SlimVirgin doing the study, and I'm here, I probably wouldn't be taken too seriously - not that it matters much, of course.

[Jonny Cache]

Yes. Isn't that ironic?

Let's forget that it's SV for a moment. I could probably make a pretty good contribution to such a study. But considering it is SlimVirgin doing the study, and I'm here, I probably wouldn't be taken too seriously - not that it matters, of course.

Or maybe it could be a Country & Western song :

I Was a CyberStalker before CyberStalking was Cyber

I hope y'all appreciate how tough it was for me spell Country straight …

Not that I have anything agin folks who ain't straight …

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[guy]

I'm sure we can all think of one or two contributors to WR who can tell stories about being stalked on Wikipedia. In some cases, their ethnicity might be relevant.

[Rochelle]

Well...it makes sense to me. Not to be "pro-wikipedia" or anything, but, um, ah...(*trails off in silence and walks away*) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

I can't believe this person has benefited from a university education.

She is asking people to reveal highly personal information without any protections or controls. Remember, of course you do, this is a person acting pseudonymously and who refuses to refute serious allegations that she has, or is, acting behalf of an intelligence agency. She does not even directly solicit the "subjects." She states she wishes to focus on the intra-psychic aspects but presents no credentials to indicate competence in this area. She singles out woman and gays for response. She is attached or affiliated with no university of research institute. She intends to submit this to a peer reviewed publication? No, instead to a self interested private organization without any promise of normal research ethics or protocols.

In short this is everything that permits abuse and mistreatment on the internet. The moderators of wikien-l have acted irresponsibly to even let this through.

[Daniel Brandt]

All replies will be received in strictest confidence. Your name would not have to be included in the final document, and if you're worried about being exposed in any way, I can change all identifying details. Nothing will be included about you without your express permission.

I assume it's all a trick. She plans to make it all up. No research required — just a rich role-playing fantasy world and a generous dash of righteous indignation.

[blissyu2]

Link:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikim...ber/000018.html

Its on meta, which nobody reads. I don't know why she bothered. Is it copied elsewhere?

I wrote an essay a short time ago recognising that Wikipedia has a major problem with their facilitation of cyber stalking. See that essay here:
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=12049

In my opinion, there is no doubt or question that the structure of Wikipedia, both in terms of software and policies, strongly encourages and facilitates stalking, cyber stalking, harassment, libel and smear campaigns. That it is relatively infrequent is probably because of the subject matter rather than any deliberate act. Wikipedia is vulnerable to such things.

If SlimVirgin were to attack the root cause of the problem, and to petition for change in the software and the policy to properly deal with this issue, then that is fantastic. If, however, she wishes to merely get stories out there, then she isn't helping one little bit.

Personal stories are only relevant when they are completed stories, when they have resulted in a definite victory, in a conclusion. For anything else, it can put them in more danger simply by telling the story. Furthermore, note that in many cases a culprit can disguise themselves as a victim, henceforth they should act as examples not as definite proof. This is why focussing on the broad issue is important. Individual examples may in fact be misleading.

As for me, I wasn't really cyber stalked on Wikipedia. I had 2 jerks harass me, follow me all around Wikipedia, I wasn't allowed to edit out their comments on my user talk page, and they took control of my user page itself. They then went to write nasty things following anything that I had written in anyone else's user talk pages, edited articles after me with nasty edit summaries and NOTHING HAPPENED. One of these people, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters, was encouraged to do so by SlimVirgin, to try to get me to cease investigating the ban of Poetlister, to scare me off. The other one, Antaeus Feldspar, did it to try to stop anyone from investigating whether Daniel Brandt was mistreated. Both cases were more accurately cyber bullying. Both cases were facilitated by and encouraged by SlimVirgin.

Now, they don't compare with real cases of cyber stalking - they were never going to affect my job, and there was a simple solution that Wikipedia could have and should have done to deal with it - to ban both of them. However, SlimVirgin's power was such that she was able to prevent that from happening, and indeed those 2 continue to behave in this way today, towards individuals when required.

That again is a part of Wikipedia's problem, that the secret power leads to people like SlimVirgin having this extra power to be able to do such things as that, or to get others to do it who she then protects. Its not really cyber stalking, but it could have been quite easily.

Now if SlimVirgin is going to be taking this seriously, then she needs to start by no longer promoting such cyber bullying and harassment. She can go out there and ban those 2, and anyone else who has engaged in this kind of activity, and remove all of the bans against people who she bullied to this stage. Then she can write an apology explaining why she did it, and accepting that she is to blame to a much greater extent than the people who she got to do it.

Only then can she be taken seriously.

[LamontStormstar]

Well the whole research paper looks like she wants to make an attack on anyone who criticizes her own cyberstalking on wikipedia.

[Jonny Cache]

Well the whole research paper looks like she wants to make an attack on anyone who criticizes her own cyberstalking on wikipedia.

In slimiotics, the termofart cyberstalk means to criticize SlimVirgin and her her butties on the internet.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[blissyu2]

I just sent her an e-mail:

Dear SlimVirgin,

I read your message on the Wikimedia mailing list here: http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikim...ber/000018.html

I thought that I would write a reply to you.

Firstly, I have written an essay which outlines the great problems that exist on Wikipedia, and may exist to some extent on other Wikimedia projects, in terms of both software and policies. You can read this essay here:
http://wikipediareview.com/index.php?showtopic=12049

Secondly, I would like to describe to you my testimony of cyber stalking on Wikipedia, and how it affected me.

In December 2005, I came across an "Articles for Deletion" on Daniel Brandt, and commented what my opinion was to deal with this, and worked with Jokestress to deal with it. This then got the attention of someone called "Antaeus Feldspar". He then wrote to me many very nasty things about it. I asked him to please stop, and this only served to encourage him to do more. I began deleting his comments from my user talk page, and he restored them, then he tried to get me banned for controlling the article - the article being my user talk page. He then began changing my user page, writing to other users, and in articles, and so forth. His aim was to try to discourage anyone from helping out Daniel Brandt, because he wanted to really hurt Daniel Brandt. That can be more accurately described as "cyber bullying" rather than "cyber stalking", but nonetheless it was quite upsetting.

I found that Wikipedia was unwilling to do anything about it. I asked to be permitted to simply ignore him, and I received very little support. The only action that was suggested was for me to write a Request for Comment with a view to his being banned perhaps, but just as likely that I might get banned for daring to raise it. This was not a solution, and was certain to make things much worse.

Soon after that, a person called Poetlister sent me an e-mail asking for my help to mediate a dispute between one of her friends and Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters. Soon after I was asked to mediate it, she was banned. I refused to investigate it, but was eventually convinced to look in to it.

As soon as I began to look in to it, I was harassed by Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters, which ultimately was what convinced me to conduct a proper investigation in to the matter. It seemed that a person called "SlimVirgin" was encouraging and facilitating this harassment. Furthermore, Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters encouraged Antaeus Feldspar as well.

It became intolerable, so I was forced to quit Wikipedia over it. Antaeus Feldspar in particular continued to attack me all over Wikipedia even after I had left.

I was eventually banned by Kelly Martin long after I had quit. Then when my ban expired, a person called SlimVirgin deleted my page which had documented everything, and then banned Poetlister, along with a respected administrator called Runcorn. I did manage to keep a copy of the page, which is now hosted by Encyclopedia Dramatica at http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/User:Zordrac/Poetlister which you can look at if you like.

I didn't fall victim to any cyber stalking on Wikipedia. However, I have previously been the victim of cyber stalking, which you can see the evidence of at http://www.toxicpink.net/

I believe strongly that Wikipedia needs to change its software capabilities and its policies in order to properly deal with the serious issue of cyber stalking. They also need to get rid of the secret power structures that exist which serve to protect people who engage in these kinds of activities. I believe that one of the worst examples of cyber stalking is Amorrow, and perhaps the worst facilitators of it is SlimVirgin. I think that Wikipedia should do everything in their power to ban both of these dangerous individuals.

Thank you.

Adrian

[Jonny Cache]

SlimVirgin and her her butties

You think she has butt buddies?

Dunno, but I reckon all her biddies and buddies are butts of one sort or another.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[Nathan]

In slimiotics, the termofart cyberstalk means to criticize SlimVirgin and her her butties on the internet.

Jonny B)

If you've spent any time in the UK, you'll notice how unintentionally hilarious that sentence looks - "SlimVirgin and her sandwiches"? ('butty' is a Britishism for 'sandwich')
Damn, dinnertime came and went without my knowing it.

[blissyu2]

In slimiotics, the termofart cyberstalk means to criticize SlimVirgin and her her butties on the internet.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

If you've spent any time in the UK, you'll notice how unintentionally hilarious that sentence looks - "SlimVirgin and her sandwiches"? ('butty' is a Britishism for 'sandwich')
Damn, dinnertime came and went without my knowing it.

I liked the first version of that page. I don't know why they got rid of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=62075625

Anyway off topic.

Or actually this version (except they can't spell "delicacy"):
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=62075755

[LamontStormstar]

I liked the first version of that page. I don't know why they got rid of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&oldid=62075625

Wikipedia always tends to get rid of good edits.


This post has been edited by LamontStormstar:

[Jonny Cache]

In slimiotics, the termofart cyberstalk means to criticize SlimVirgin and her her butties on the internet.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

{{↓MARKER↓}}

If you've spent any time in the UK, you'll notice how unintentionally hilarious that sentence looks — "SlimVirgin and her sandwiches"? ('butty' is a Britishism for 'sandwich')

Damn, dinnertime came and went without my knowing it.

{{↑MARKER↑}}

[Nathan]

Yes, yes, my fault entirely. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[blissyu2]

Yes, well, just so you know Armed Blowfish wrote a reply to SlimVirgin:

http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikim...ber/000019.html

[Jonny Cache]

Yes, yes, my fault entirely. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

Please understand — I am not the one who suggested such tactics. I am simply making the customary form of WR:POINT about the probable consequences of implementing such a suggestion.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

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[blissyu2]

Lots of people reading this, not many people replying. Have we already said all that can be said?

[LamontStormstar]

Lots of people reading this, not many people replying. Have we already said all that can be said?

Maybe we can do thorough and detailed research on how she has been and is behind cyberstalking and make a blog post on it.


This post has been edited by LamontStormstar:

[Jonny Cache]

Lots of people reading this, not many people replying. Have we already said all that can be said?

I think a lot of older folks — y'know, pushing eleventy-one or so — probably ran out to the all-nite pharmacy for more hypertension meds, lest they blow a gasket trying to absorb any more of SlimVirgin's Hypersaturated Fatty Asshead Baloney™.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[blissyu2]

Lots of people reading this, not many people replying. Have we already said all that can be said?

Maybe we can do thorough and detailed research on how she has been and is behind cyberstalking and make a blog post on it.

Well, on Wikipedia I wasn't cyberstalked, I think the correct term is "cyberbullied". SlimVirgin herself didn't do it - but she encouraged it, and supported them doing it, and then she protected them afterwards. Of course another example was Malber. SlimVirgin didn't ask Malber to harass Selina, but when Malber started to, SlimVirgin supported him doing it.

I don't know if we can go so far as to say that SlimVirgin is responsible for cyber stalking, because it doesn't seem to happen very much on Wikipedia full stop (not from what I can tell). But we can say that she is a part of the structure that exists on Wikipedia to support cyber stalking, which is just waiting for someone to abuse it.

[BobbyBombastic]

Link:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikim...ber/000018.html

Its on meta, which nobody reads. I don't know why she bothered. Is it copied elsewhere?

It's on foundation-l too, (clicky) and I sort of expect it to show up elsewhere.

Anyways, that will teach her to solicit emails, blissy emailed her! Look out Linda!

I wouldn't get too worked up over this, whether you are pro-Linda, anti-Linda, or somewhere in between, it is the same old same old. She does not have solutions or even seek solutions to what she thinks the problem is--she just wants to tell sob stories that appeal to emotion over intellect, hoping that some reaction (presumably sympathetic to her) is stimulated.

Right now I'm thinking of this "paper" as a Musical Linguist and ElinorD type epic on steroids. If you are familiar with those two, you know what I mean.

I must admit, in some ways this causes me to pity her more, for her perceptions regarding these things are totally warped, which leads people to believe she is at least a hypocrite and at the most she has serious mental problems. So in a way, she has succeeded already--she has my pity.

[Jonny Cache]

Lots of people reading this, not many people replying. Have we already said all that can be said?

Maybe we can do thorough and detailed research on how she has been and is behind cyberstalking and make a blog post on it.

Well, on Wikipedia I wasn't cyberstalked, I think the correct term is "cyberbullied". SlimVirgin herself didn't do it — but she encouraged it, and supported them doing it, and then she protected them afterwards. Of course another example was Malber. SlimVirgin didn't ask Malber to harass Selina, but when Malber started to, SlimVirgin supported him doing it.

I don't know if we can go so far as to say that SlimVirgin is responsible for cyber stalking, because it doesn't seem to happen very much on Wikipedia full stop (not from what I can tell). But we can say that she is a part of the structure that exists on Wikipedia to support cyber stalking, which is just waiting for someone to abuse it.

These are good observations.

The next question to ask is the one that I always ask next — Why?

What does the protégé bully get and what does the patron protector get in the connivance between the two?

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

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[blissyu2]

These are good observations.

The next question to ask is the one that I always ask next — Why?

What does the protégé bully get and what does the patron protector get in the connivance between the two?

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

In the Lulu case, the bully and the protector both got to control their precious articles, and got power out of it, something that they both wanted. Its pretty simple stuff. In some cases, SlimVirgin plays victim and gets knights in shining armour to protect her, hence the knights get the feeling that they are doing something good by doing it, and don't realise what is really going on.

It's on foundation-l too, (clicky) and I sort of expect it to show up elsewhere.

It has quite a few replies already:

Delirium seems to think that it is a biased study that will never get accurate results.

Brianna suggested it was reasonable though

SlimVirgin suggested that cyber stalking was a big problem

George Herbert agreed with Delirium that it was a biased study

So will this catch on more? Will it get to WikiEN-l too?

Anyways, that will teach her to solicit emails, blissy emailed her! Look out Linda!

She didn't reply, but I CC'ed Armed Blowfish, and Armed Blowfish replied.

I think that this is akin to a cyber stalker making a page saying how awful it is that they are being stalked, so as to distract from what they are doing. "I'm not doing anything wrong! See here, there's proof!"

Same kind of thing really. I think it is an attempt to illicit sympathy for her, and has no genuine aspect to it.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

The irony of SlimVirgin complaining about cyberstalking is that she and especially her buddy Jayjg have had done more cyberstalking to others than everyone else has done to the two of them.

And let us not forget her other tag-team partner, Will Beback, who is credited with being the inventor of Wikistalking.

[Jonny Cache]

These are good observations.

The next question to ask is the one that I always ask next — Why?

What does the protégé bully get and what does the patron protector get in the connivance between the two?

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

In the Lulu case, the bully and the protector both got to control their precious articles, and got power out of it, something that they both wanted. Its pretty simple stuff. In some cases, SlimVirgin plays victim and gets knights in shining armour to protect her, hence the knights get the feeling that they are doing something good by doing it, and don't realise what is really going on.

My guess would be that the protégé gets — just like the word protégé says, protection — a limited immunity from prosecution for acts of aggression toward others. Maybe the protégé gets the ego-juice of believing he or she is doing something good. But we are talking about a bully here. There has got to be more to it than a feeling of doing something good. The bully gets to vent feelings of personal frustration on others who are weaker. And notice how the weak are made, not born — they are made weak precisely because they do not get the protection of the protector.

But all of this only raises the question — frustration about what?

As to the question of what the patron protector gets in the bargain, "Knights In Shining Armour" (KISA) is right on target, "a veritable hit", as they say. In feudal times (not all that different from our wikipheudal times), they called that fealty, in a word, loyalty — and in the bargain the incumbent pledge of service that the vassal owed to the local overlord for the promise of protection.

But do you really think that being lord-lady and master-mistress over some zoo full of pet articles is really the end of it? Or is that merely the means to a more grandiose end?

So the next question is — toward the greater glory of what?

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

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[Herschelkrustofsky]

My hunch is that Virginia Slim is launching an offensive here to deflect the well-earned scrutiny of her behavior which followed the Ohmynews scandal and the revelations about her sock-puppetry. She is skilled at putting together fallacy of composition arguments, along the lines of this:

1. Many people say that they have experienced great psychic pain because they have been cyberstalked. This is especially true when they are admins. It is even more especially true when they are female admins. Nota bene: I am a female admin.

2. The recent exposés of my sockpuppetry, my previous shady activities as a putative journalist, and my general exploitation of Wikipedia for dubious purposes, were the work of cyberstalkers, who, it is said, cause great psychic pain to many people, especially admins, especially female admins, etc., etc.

3. Therefore, these recent exposés of my misconduct should be ignored, despite the fact that I am guilty as sin, so as not to give aid and comfort to the cyberstalkers.

[Kato]

My hunch is that Virginia Slim is launching an offensive here to deflect the well-earned scrutiny of her behavior which followed the Ohmynews scandal and the revelations about her sock-puppetry. She is skilled at putting together fallacy of composition arguments, along the lines of this:

1. Many people say that they have experienced great psychic pain because they have been cyberstalked. This is especially true when they are admins. It is even more especially true when they are female admins. Nota bene: I am a female admin.

2. The recent exposés of my sockpuppetry, my previous shady activities as a putative journalist, and my general exploitation of Wikipedia for dubious purposes, were the work of cyberstalkers, who, it is said, cause great psychic pain to many people, especially admins, especially female admins, etc., etc.

3. Therefore, these recent exposés of my misconduct should be ignored, despite the fact that I am guilty as sin, so as not to give aid and comfort to the cyberstalkers.

My feelings entirely. Although I'd describe it as defensive rather than offensive. With all the flak she's been taking, her support is simply eroding away, her power flagging. Kelly Martin's blog post, almost demanding that she give up the ghost, was a big nail in the coffin as far as I can see. And Slim is resorting to desperate measures to retain some kind of control over her future on WP.

I'd like to add that I predicted this eventuality some months ago. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/tongue.gif)

[Jonny Cache]

My hunch is that Virginia Slim is launching an offensive here to deflect the well-earned scrutiny of her behavior which followed the Ohmynews scandal and the revelations about her sock-puppetry. She is skilled at putting together fallacy of composition arguments, along the lines of this:

1. Many people say that they have experienced great psychic pain because they have been cyberstalked. This is especially true when they are admins. It is even more especially true when they are female admins. Nota bene: I am a female admin.
2. The recent exposés of my sockpuppetry, my previous shady activities as a putative journalist, and my general exploitation of Wikipedia for dubious purposes, were the work of cyberstalkers, who, it is said, cause great psychic pain to many people, especially admins, especially female admins, etc., etc.
3. Therefore, these recent exposés of my misconduct should be ignored, despite the fact that I am guilty as sin, so as not to give aid and comfort to the cyberstalkers.

Of course, the big problem with WikiPseudoDemographics is that it's never the sadistics of What One Is (WOI), but always the sadistics of What One Pretends One Is (WOPOI).

This naturally creates a peculiar brand of equivocation when one charges others with discrimination and persecution on the basis of WOPOI.

To wit, or not, you cannot really claim that they persecute you because you are X, you can only claim that they persecute you because you pretend to be X.

So maybe it's the pretense that really pisses people off.

Did you ever think of that ???

Noooooooooo …

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[blissyu2]

I have always said that people who know about a subject should be writing about it. People like Crockspot should write on Wikipedia so that all of the white supremist articles have the pro-supremacy point of view represented. All of the paedophiles on Wikipedia should write so that they have a pro-paedophilia point of view. And SlimVirgin should write so that they have a pro-stalking point of view.

Also note this reply:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikim...ber/000020.html

Now added to the Wiki-research-l mailing list. Will it be in them all by the end of the week?

Apparently its not there yet:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-...ber/thread.html

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Kelly Martin's blog post, almost demanding that she give up the ghost, was a big nail in the coffin as far as I can see.

And it's quite a lucid blog post, too.

[blissyu2]

Look at that. It made it to Wiki-research-l. 3 different mailing lists now! Go go team SV!
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-...ber/000401.html

Why not in WikiEN-l? Or are we avoiding that one?

It even got a reply from Sam Katz:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-...ber/000402.html

Sam even says that they are the victim of cyber stalking, using Wikipedia as a launch pad too! woo hoo! A hit for SV!

Of course, that might be completely made up to stroke SV's ego. But hey you never know.

[alienus]

I assume it's all a trick. She plans to make it all up. No research required — just a rich role-playing fantasy world and a generous dash of righteous indignation.

Ok, that part's self-evident. What's not clear to me is the intended goal. Is she going to try to claim that new policies are needed to protect admin anonymity?

On a side note, I wonder how she might make a distinction between the standard sockpuppet witch hunt and cyberstalking.

Al

[blissyu2]

Ordinarily, I'd say that the goal was obvious - to hide what she herself has been doing for so long. However, with SlimVirgin she tends to like to play 2 cards at once, so there may be something more to it than that.

[Somey]

Ordinarily, I'd say that the goal was obvious - to hide what she herself has been doing for so long. However, with SlimVirgin she tends to like to play 2 cards at once, so there may be something more to it than that.

Hmmm... I don't think so, not this time anyway. Frankly, if this is the best she can come up with, then I think she's out of ideas.

I mean, anyone who would believe the claim that she was the target of identity exposure "just for being a Wikipedia admin" has to be completely retarded. Uhh, how many admins are there? Almost 1,300...? And how many have been "investigated" in that sense? Ten? Twenty, tops?

[blissyu2]

Ordinarily, I'd say that the goal was obvious - to hide what she herself has been doing for so long. However, with SlimVirgin she tends to like to play 2 cards at once, so there may be something more to it than that.

Hmmm... I don't think so, not this time anyway. Frankly, if this is the best she can come up with, then I think she's out of ideas.

I mean, anyone who would believe the claim that she was the target of identity exposure "just for being a Wikipedia admin" has to be completely retarded. Uhh, how many admins are there? Almost 1,300...? And how many have been "investigated" in that sense? Ten? Twenty, tops?

It doesn't matter if they are an admin or not, doing what she's done would get you investigated.

And if you think that you're MORE VULNERABLE because you hold a position of power somewhere, well, that's a big fat load of bullshit. You're a hell of a lot safer if you hold a position of power.

[blissyu2]

Another reply on research, this time from Piotr Konieczny (who?):
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-...ber/000403.html

I did like his typo tho:

It is essential that Fundation (and Jimbo!) take some steps to deal with
this, or the entire project may be in jeopardy.

Fundation? You mean where the buck stops?

Thus far it has had perhaps 10 replies (?) across 3 mailing lists. Of course, none of the mailing lists are used too much. Perhaps she is just wanting e-mails.

How many will SlimVirgin claim have e-mailed her?

[Unrepentant Vandal]

My guess is that she's motivated by a need to justify to herself her remaining on WP.

[Jonny Cache]

She hasn't been editing Wikipedia, at least under the name SlimVirgin, for week now. Maybe it's just a compulsive need to be typing ∑thing ∑where.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[blissyu2]

Oh.

[jdrand]

My hunch is that Virginia Slim is launching an offensive here to deflect the well-earned scrutiny of her behavior which followed the Ohmynews scandal and the revelations about her sock-puppetry. She is skilled at putting together fallacy of composition arguments, along the lines of this:

1. Many people say that they have experienced great psychic pain because they have been cyberstalked. This is especially true when they are admins. It is even more especially true when they are female admins. Nota bene: I am a female admin.

2. The recent exposés of my sockpuppetry, my previous shady activities as a putative journalist, and my general exploitation of Wikipedia for dubious purposes, were the work of cyberstalkers, who, it is said, cause great psychic pain to many people, especially admins, especially female admins, etc., etc.

3. Therefore, these recent exposés of my misconduct should be ignored, despite the fact that I am guilty as sin, so as not to give aid and comfort to the cyberstalkers.

She says this:
The recent exposés of my sockpuppetry, my previous shady activities as a putative journalist, and my general exploitation of Wikipedia for dubious purposes, were the work of cyberstalkers, who, it is said, cause great psychic pain to many people, especially admins, especially female admins, etc., etc.

BUT she admits those are true, and the "cyberstalkers" are actually telling the truth:

" ...despite the fact that I am guilty as sin...

.

Another H Y P O C R I T E.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

My hunch is that Virginia Slim is launching an offensive here to deflect the well-earned scrutiny of her behavior which followed the Ohmynews scandal and the revelations about her sock-puppetry. She is skilled at putting together fallacy of composition arguments, along the lines of this:

1. Many people say that they have experienced great psychic pain because they have been cyberstalked. This is especially true when they are admins. It is even more especially true when they are female admins. Nota bene: I am a female admin.

2. The recent exposés of my sockpuppetry, my previous shady activities as a putative journalist, and my general exploitation of Wikipedia for dubious purposes, were the work of cyberstalkers, who, it is said, cause great psychic pain to many people, especially admins, especially female admins, etc., etc.

3. Therefore, these recent exposés of my misconduct should be ignored, despite the fact that I am guilty as sin, so as not to give aid and comfort to the cyberstalkers.

She says this:
The recent exposés of my sockpuppetry, my previous shady activities as a putative journalist, and my general exploitation of Wikipedia for dubious purposes, were the work of cyberstalkers, who, it is said, cause great psychic pain to many people, especially admins, especially female admins, etc., etc.

BUT she admits those are true, and the "cyberstalkers" are actually telling the truth:

" ...despite the fact that I am guilty as sin...

.

Another H Y P O C R I T E.

Please note that those are not quotes from SlimVirgin. They are from a parody of SlimVirgin.

[Jonny Cache]

Please note that those are not quotes from SlimVirgin. They are from a parody of SlimVirgin.

You'd better watch out or she'll sue for Unauthorized Portrayal —

She is very insistent about this issue — asserting her moral right to be recognized as the author of all her own parodies.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[Ashibaka]

It even got a reply from Sam Katz:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-...ber/000402.html

Wow, Sam, I've had personal info posted to various websites where people threatened physical harm to me, but compared to your story that's nothing! Phew!

This post has been edited by Ashibaka:

[LamontStormstar]

It even got a reply from Sam Katz:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wiki-...ber/000402.html

Wow, Sam, I've had personal info posted to various websites where people threatened my life, but compared to your story that's nothing! Phew!

At least you aren't the 4chan kid Trey Burba.

[Unrepentant Vandal]

At least you aren't the 4chan kid Trey Burba.

Who is that? In quotes there is a single google result, on a guestbook.

[anthony]

In case you didn't catch it, we just found out what this "paper" was all about. She was looking for help in her top-secret pseudo-arbitration session.

"The group who discussed this included the arbitration committee, the staff of Foundation, and SlimVirgin and others who have from time to time been victims of harassment or stalking." http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...ber/080982.html

[GlassBeadGame]

In case you didn't catch it, we just found out what this "paper" was all about. She was looking for help in her top-secret pseudo-arbitration session.

"The group who discussed this included the arbitration committee, the staff of Foundation, and SlimVirgin and others who have from time to time been victims of harassment or stalking." http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikie...ber/080982.html

A new low in convoluted and distorted process. A phony Brandeis Brief to inform a phony court.

[Jonny Cache]

In case you didn't catch it, we just found out what this "paper" was all about. She was looking for help in her top-secret pseudo-arbitration session.

"The group who discussed this included the arbitration committee, the staff of Foundation, and SlimVirgin and others who have from time to time been victims of harassment or stalking."

Source. wikien-l/2007-September/080982.html

A new low in convoluted and distorted process. A phony Brandeis Brief to inform a phony court.

Damn !

And here I was hoping past hope that SlimVirgin was preparing some kind of class-action suit — you know, sung and danced to the tune of Helen Reddy's, "A Thousand Yoo-Hoos and Me Against the World" — 'cause once a few early adopter lawyers found out there's gold in them thar hells, it would spawn a whole new breed of Wikipedic disambigulance-chasers.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[GlassBeadGame]

Damn !

And here I was hoping past hope that SlimVirgin was preparing some kind of class-action suit — you know, sung and danced to the tune of Helen Reddy's, "A Thousand Yoo-Hoos and Me Against the World" — 'cause once a few early adopter lawyers found out there's gold in them thar hells, it would spawn a whole new breed of Wikipedic disambigulance-chasers.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Early adopter lawyers got their hands full trying to keep the bio-meat puppet moms in line.