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> SirFozzie: Teetering on the edge...
SirFozzie
post Tue 10th March 2009, 1:55am
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The more I think about things on Wikipedia, the more I'm inclined to use the old Branch Rickey line when after a poor year for his team, one of his top players demanded a raise....

"We finished last with you.. we can finish last without you just as well".

Why?

Because quite frankly, I'm tired of pushing against the status quo in so many things.

Ireland related editwars? Yeah. THAT'S gonna go away real soon.

"Fringe Science"? Dear god, I hope people won't be surprised that my first, second, and third thoughts when reading all the AE/AN/ANI reports since the ArbCom case closed ten days ago was "God, I wish I could ban them all". Not Argumentum Ad Nauseum, more like Argumentum Ad Insanium. (I know, bad Latin, I don't care)

Flagged Revisions? Again, the status quo will never change. there's too much inertia to ever get it into motion without something extra-ordinary (IE, Jimbo decides to take the PR hit and God-Kings something through)

Followers of (insert political party here) thinks Wikipedia is far too biased in favor of (insert political party here). (and usually, the people on that side think it's just as biased the other way).

Even when ArbCom does things right, they screw things up. ScienceApologist's topic ban is being flouted blatantly, and instead of letting a clear boundary be set, they demand it be done as an "ArbCom clarification", which means at least some folks on ArbCom sit and discuss things endlessly..) This thing closed ten days ago. A "clarification" on the wording shouldn't take another 4+ days.. they have everything at hand! But instead, the fire rages out of control. Same as it ever was.

I was talking with a person recently whose name gets bandied around here quite frequently (although not as frequently as it used to). We got to talking about ArbCom Enforcement and the situation on Wikipedia. And they said as a conservative estimate, there would need to be at least THREE times as many administrators to keep things under control. Not three times as many admins at AE (although that would help), three times as many administrators, period! Not to mention 80% of the admin class aren't doing much of anything to manage conflicts on Wikipedia

Anyway, I'm wondering if it's time to let someone else have fun with the mop, and drift away. Let all the articles on my watchlist go, and let the vandals at em.
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tarantino
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:18am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 10th March 2009, 1:55am) *

The more I think about things on Wikipedia, the more I'm inclined to use the old Branch Rickey line when after a poor year for his team, one of his top players demanded a raise....

"We finished last with you.. we can finish last without you just as well".

Why?

Because quite frankly, I'm tired of pushing against the status quo in so many things.

Ireland related editwars? Yeah. THAT'S gonna go away real soon.

"Fringe Science"? Dear god, I hope people won't be surprised that my first, second, and third thoughts when reading all the AE/AN/ANI reports since the ArbCom case closed ten days ago was "God, I wish I could ban them all". Not Argumentum Ad Nauseum, more like Argumentum Ad Insanium. (I know, bad Latin, I don't care)

Flagged Revisions? Again, the status quo will never change. there's too much inertia to ever get it into motion without something extra-ordinary (IE, Jimbo decides to take the PR hit and God-Kings something through)

Followers of (insert political party here) thinks Wikipedia is far too biased in favor of (insert political party here). (and usually, the people on that side think it's just as biased the other way).

Even when ArbCom does things right, they screw things up. ScienceApologist's topic ban is being flouted blatantly, and instead of letting a clear boundary be set, they demand it be done as an "ArbCom clarification", which means at least some folks on ArbCom sit and discuss things endlessly..) This thing closed ten days ago. A "clarification" on the wording shouldn't take another 4+ days.. they have everything at hand! But instead, the fire rages out of control. Same as it ever was.

I was talking with a person recently whose name gets bandied around here quite frequently (although not as frequently as it used to). We got to talking about ArbCom Enforcement and the situation on Wikipedia. And they said as a conservative estimate, there would need to be at least THREE times as many administrators to keep things under control. Not three times as many admins at AE (although that would help), three times as many administrators, period! Not to mention 80% of the admin class aren't doing much of anything to manage conflicts on Wikipedia

Anyway, I'm wondering if it's time to let someone else have fun with the mop, and drift away. Let all the articles on my watchlist go, and let the vandals at em.


I recommend you go out in a blaze of glory. ;)
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Kato
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:20am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 10th March 2009, 1:55am) *

Anyway, I'm wondering if it's time to let someone else have fun with the mop, and drift away. Let all the articles on my watchlist go, and let the vandals at em.

That will happen eventually anyway.

Why not make the break now?

See John A:

QUOTE(JohnA @ Sat 27th October 2007, 12:39pm) *

You are being exploited to provide free labor in return for supporting an enormous enterprise because having sacrificed so much, it's difficult to walk away from.

Once you realise that you want a life where someone isn't turning your house and garden over even five seconds 24 hours a day 365 days a year, then you'll start to dislike WP. Then you'll feel like quitting. Then you'll pick one final fight. Then you'll sit in a darkened room and decide whether to go for "blaze of glory" or just walk away into the night.

It's a labor of love, right until the moment you realise that the project and most everyone else, could not give a shit about you and what you've sacrificed for it. You've sacrificed so much but the returns will diminish and the "sysop" bit will mean less and less emotionally and intellectually.

Oh and Jimbo Wales is making money hand over fist because of WP while you get nothing.

One day, you'll wake up and realise that what seems like cynicism or vindictiveness on my part today, is nothing more that the unvarnished truth, the red pill that most of us here took some time ago.
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SirFozzie
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:26am
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QUOTE(Kato @ Mon 9th March 2009, 10:20pm) *

QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 10th March 2009, 1:55am) *

Anyway, I'm wondering if it's time to let someone else have fun with the mop, and drift away. Let all the articles on my watchlist go, and let the vandals at em.

That will happen eventually anyway.

Why not make the break now?

See John A:

QUOTE(JohnA @ Sat 27th October 2007, 12:39pm) *

You are being exploited to provide free labor in return for supporting an enormous enterprise because having sacrificed so much, it's difficult to walk away from.

Once you realise that you want a life where someone isn't turning your house and garden over even five seconds 24 hours a day 365 days a year, then you'll start to dislike WP. Then you'll feel like quitting. Then you'll pick one final fight. Then you'll sit in a darkened room and decide whether to go for "blaze of glory" or just walk away into the night.

It's a labor of love, right until the moment you realise that the project and most everyone else, could not give a shit about you and what you've sacrificed for it. You've sacrificed so much but the returns will diminish and the "sysop" bit will mean less and less emotionally and intellectually.

Oh and Jimbo Wales is making money hand over fist because of WP while you get nothing.

One day, you'll wake up and realise that what seems like cynicism or vindictiveness on my part today, is nothing more that the unvarnished truth, the red pill that most of us here took some time ago.



Why not? Because there has been times where I've been able to help WP out, and I agree with WP's aims.. IN PRINCIPLE. The problem is that it's become so big and unwieldy, it's the theoretical 900 lb gorilla in the room. You can't move it, you can't ignore it, and you can't get rid of it.
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Kato
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:32am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 10th March 2009, 2:26am) *

Why not? Because there has been times where I've been able to help WP out, and I agree with WP's aims.. IN PRINCIPLE. The problem is that it's become so big and unwieldy, it's the theoretical 900 lb gorilla in the room. You can't move it, you can't ignore it, and you can't get rid of it.

900 lbs? That Gorilla has put on 100 lbs in the last year or so:


"We also have to watch out, though - for fuckheads like ED and even Bagley we're, honestly, well-equipped to handle them as-is because they're so self-obviously stupid. But we have to remember, we are the 800 lb gorilla in most conflicts with people.

We are huge. We are a huge fucking website staffed by people who do not know how to run the ninth biggest website on Teh Intarwebs.

We are bigger than Blogger, bigger than eBay, and bigger than Amazon. We have no clue how to deal with that. And I count myself in that we.

I have no fucking clue why I am a powerful and trusted administrator on the ninth biggest website in the world."


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LaraLove
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:32am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Mon 9th March 2009, 9:55pm) *

<snip>

I'm wondering if it's time to let someone else have fun with the mop, and drift away. Let all the articles on my watchlist go, and let the vandals at em.

Stop thinking about it, dude. Just do it. I thought about it for months. Being out of the drama and the repetitiveness and endless discussion leading to no consensus. The time wasted, the frustration and anger. It's gone, Foz. Peace out of that place and be happy.
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Milton Roe
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:42am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Mon 9th March 2009, 6:55pm) *

Anyway, I'm wondering if it's time to let someone else have fun with the mop, and drift away. Let all the articles on my watchlist go, and let the vandals at em.

I have already largely done that, but because I like to write, I still end up with articles on my watchlist, and still have to watch them IP-vandalized. And while this goes on I have to watch as random admins indef sprotect stuff they are interested in but tired of watching, while they might deign to grant me a 24 hour sprotection for my articles of interest, on grounds that it's a pillar that ANYBODY CAN EDIT. Which they apparently take to mean that "anybody can edit as an IP-user with no person-traceable email address."

I've been wondering if there's anything I can do about this. Complaint does no good, because I only run into the "anyone can edit" robots, who are pretty much the same kind of people as the "RS, V, and NOTABILITY fix all BLP problems" people. They do not respond to evidence and logic. And alas, sarcasm and namecalling are forbidden on WP (unless you're JzG).

So what to do? Well, there exists a Twilight Zone between the bright land of SunshineUpTheAss and the darker land of General Strike. It's called "Work Slowdown." It's what you can do to show your importance in the work-place, without getting yourself specifically fired.

So here's my idea for IP vandalism: We spread the meme that it should not be reverted by any human on Wednesdays. I was going to suggest weekends, but too much of this occurs doing schoolhours, so Weekends would not be as good. Wednesdays it is. And whereever you are in the world, it's midnight to midnight on your particular Wednesday. That spreads it out a bit, but who cares? Keep It Simple.

On Wednesays, we turn all IP-vandal-edits over to Twinkle-users trying to lick their way up the great brown snowcone, True-Wiki-believers, and ClueBot. And good riddance! hrmph.gif They'll enjoy it, and they deserve it. I'm gunna watch and *I'll* certainly enjoy it. tongue.gif

Now, what happens if I'm about to fix a spelling error in my favorite article and find that somebody has just added the helpful fact that COACH J. WESLEY SMITH IS A FLAMING FAGGOT? Answer: I ignore this, add my correction, and save. Somebody else may have to remove the offending bit manually, if they notice it. It keeps editors off the streets and out of the pool halls, and they feel useful. smile.gif

So spread the word. ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif Wednesday is the official day when WP editors don't fix any problem that would long ago have been fixed if the community didn't have so much free slave labor as to not worry their heads about labor-saving fixes to policy. Let's let the people who still believe in the policy, do the work themselves on that day-of-rest. confused.gif

We can later apply this to BLP and a lot of other ordinary fixes that ordinary editors now perform, but shouldn't have to on a rational website. happy.gif

Milton
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SirFozzie
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:52am
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And... it's done.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Sir...ministrator_bit.
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Kevin
post Tue 10th March 2009, 3:04am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 10th March 2009, 11:52am) *


As is mine

I was just going to write how much I agreed with what SirFozzie said.

Kevin
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Kato
post Tue 10th March 2009, 3:27am
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Change of plan, guys!

Rather than quit, make a statement....

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LaraLove
post Tue 10th March 2009, 3:30am
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QUOTE(Kevin @ Mon 9th March 2009, 11:04pm) *

QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 10th March 2009, 11:52am) *


As is mine

I was just going to write how much I agreed with what SirFozzie said.

Kevin

Congratulations to you both.
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Kevin
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:14am
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QUOTE(Kato @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:27pm) *

Change of plan, guys!

Rather than quit, make a statement....



I think any statement an individual could make is destined to be lost in the noise. Even a spectacular burnout is soon forgotten.

Kevin
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LaraLove
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:18am
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QUOTE(Kevin @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:14am) *

I think any statement an individual could make is destined to be lost in the noise.
I think a good statement to serve as a record as to why you resigned and/or retired is a positive. The more admins that drop for the same reasons, the more likely some change will eventually be pushed through. Sending a message is important, in my opinion.
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Jon Awbrey
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:29am
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Here's a suggestion for folks who are beginning to outgrow their Wiki-Pampers™.

If you have articles you care about, just GFDL them over to the main space at Wikipedia Review.

If you have articles you created and wrote all the significant parts of, up to some version, say, then put your own work in the directory space at Wikipedia Review, and develop the article further as you see fit.

If you know folks you can collaborate with, then you can work out collaborative versions in the main space by pooling your efforts, all the while keeping your own perspectives in directory space.

It doesn't really take all that long to get decent rankings on most search engines, even on Google, despite all its warping.

You'd be surprised how productive you can be in an environment with adult management.

Jon Awbrey
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Kevin
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:33am
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QUOTE(LaraLove @ Tue 10th March 2009, 1:18pm) *

QUOTE(Kevin @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:14am) *

I think any statement an individual could make is destined to be lost in the noise.
I think a good statement to serve as a record as to why you resigned and/or retired is a positive. The more admins that drop for the same reasons, the more likely some change will eventually be pushed through. Sending a message is important, in my opinion.


I have made a statement of sorts, so that others will know my reasons. I can't see it having any impact whatsoever though, unless the resignations ramp up significantly.

Kevin
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everyking
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:37am
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Well, I haven't been editing much myself, partly due to my ArbCom difficulties, but mainly due to real life things. I haven't decided whether I'll eventually return to writing piles of new content everyday, or whether I'll end up as only an occasional editor, making updates here and there when necessary. Admittedly, I'm in kind of an unusual situation where the management has said they'd rather that I not come to work, and while they aren't going to actually fire me, they are prepared to make my life difficult if I do show up. Probably I wouldn't be sitting on the fence about it if not for that absurdity.
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post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:52am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Mon 9th March 2009, 7:52pm) *

Congratulations, David smile.gif I'm happy for you. You've had a hellish week in RL (but let's not talk about that here), and you really don't need the work, the heartache and the frustration that goes with all this.

Celebrate time! letsgetdrunk.gif

QUOTE(Kevin @ Mon 9th March 2009, 8:04pm) *

As is mine

I was just going to write how much I agreed with what SirFozzie said.

Kevin

Well done to you too, Kevin! At least take a break from the mayhem ....
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Milton Roe
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:55am
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QUOTE(everyking @ Mon 9th March 2009, 9:37pm) *

Well, I haven't been editing much myself, partly due to my ArbCom difficulties, but mainly due to real life things. I haven't decided whether I'll eventually return to writing piles of new content everyday, or whether I'll end up as only an occasional editor, making updates here and there when necessary. Admittedly, I'm in kind of an unusual situation where the management has said they'd rather that I not come to work, and while they aren't going to actually fire me, they are prepared to make my life difficult if I do show up. Probably I wouldn't be sitting on the fence about it if not for that absurdity.

Isaac Asimov put up with that for a couple of decades. Boston U Med School wanted to fire him because he hated doing research and didn't bring in grant money. It didn't matter that he was their best lecturer. But they couldn't fire him because he had tenure. So they just quit paying him and said he didn't have to teach or come in to work at all. So he didn't-- but he kept the title of associate prof, and his mailbox.

Twenty years later his writing had made his so famous and well-known that B.U. was scrambling all over themselves to associate with him and claim him, and they promoted him to full professor laugh.gif . None of it would have been possible if they hadn't semi-fired him, giving him time to write full-time.

Just follow your bliss. It usually works out. And even if when it doesn't, you generally are happier.
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everyking
post Tue 10th March 2009, 5:10am
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Tue 10th March 2009, 5:55am) *

QUOTE(everyking @ Mon 9th March 2009, 9:37pm) *

Well, I haven't been editing much myself, partly due to my ArbCom difficulties, but mainly due to real life things. I haven't decided whether I'll eventually return to writing piles of new content everyday, or whether I'll end up as only an occasional editor, making updates here and there when necessary. Admittedly, I'm in kind of an unusual situation where the management has said they'd rather that I not come to work, and while they aren't going to actually fire me, they are prepared to make my life difficult if I do show up. Probably I wouldn't be sitting on the fence about it if not for that absurdity.

Isaac Asimov put up with that for a couple of decades. Boston U Med School wanted to fire him because he hated doing research and didn't bring in grant money. It didn't matter that he was their best lecturer. But they couldn't fire him because he had tenure. So they just quit paying him and said he didn't have to teach or come in to work at all. So he didn't-- but he kept the title of associate prof, and his mailbox.

Twenty years later his writing had made his so famous and well-known that B.U. was scrambling all over themselves to associate with him and claim him, and they promoted him to full professor laugh.gif . None of it would have been possible if they hadn't semi-fired him, giving him time to write full-time.

Just follow your bliss. It usually works out. And even if when it doesn't, you generally are happier.


The analogy is made funnier when one considers that I don't get paid. It's like having to pick the lock to the building every day so I can get in and do volunteer work.
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Cla68
post Tue 10th March 2009, 5:43am
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QUOTE(SirFozzie @ Tue 10th March 2009, 1:55am) *
I was talking with a person recently whose name gets bandied around here quite frequently (although not as frequently as it used to). We got to talking about ArbCom Enforcement and the situation on Wikipedia. And they said as a conservative estimate, there would need to be at least THREE times as many administrators to keep things under control. Not three times as many admins at AE (although that would help), three times as many administrators, period! Not to mention 80% of the admin class aren't doing much of anything to manage conflicts on Wikipedia


I notice you used "they" instead of "he" or "she" to refer that person. I think "they" are right that Wikipedia needs three times more admins to stay on top of project maintenance. Of course, though, the admins also need a more structured organization to help support their decision making and institutionalize standard responses to similar events. Hopefully, the person you were conversing with has never helped torpedo anyone's RfA for political reasons, because that would have removed some admins that might have helped shoulder the load for the rest of you all.

Anyway, simply asking for a suspension of the privileges is a graceful way to go, as opposed to blocking all of the problem editors from the Troubles and Fringe Science, then deleting their userpages and salting them with profane edit summaries, or redirecting all their userpages and the articles in question to Jimbo's userpage and then fully protecting them, or something like that.

By the way, your efforts with the Mantanmoreland fiasco did produce some results. Your status as an admin probably gave you some authority to push that through that you might otherwise not have had.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Tue 10th March 2009, 5:48am
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