High School kid who pretends to be a cop up for CU?, ...and ArbCom asked him to stump??? Options

[Ahypori]

It's good that his nomination is questioned.

The current question has been templated onto all requests, or did you mean it's been questioned here?

[Nerd]

It would be a good idea to keep all election stuff together, on the thread I started on the topic. That way it's easier to follow, rather than having numerous threads to check through.

[Somey]

Uh-oh ... Hold on.

You are saying he is a real police officer ... pretending to be a teenager to edit on the Wikipedia ... self-presenting to become an admin/checkuser ... and then having access to private personal information about other Wikipedia users?

That's not what I got out of it - it sounds more like a teenager pretending to be a police officer (not a cadet), as opposed to the other way around.

The specific post in question appears to have been made to a website operated by a group that "offers young people (ages 14-21) an opportunity to not only learn about law enforcement, but also serve their community." The person presumably believed to be Tiptoety posted this, from a city quite a long way away from the group in question:

Great site, I am hoping our unit will be able to get something like this up and running. It looks like you guys have a lot of fun!

So, it boils down to how you interpret the words "our unit," and either way, this is hardly proof that Tiptoety is anything in particular.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with wanting to pursue a career in Law Enforcement, as long as one doesn't seriously misrepresent himself or herself in the process.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

From, Tiptoety here ...

Because of this, I am not opposed to releasing the information of a specific user (should the situation warrant it) to another single user for the purpose of contacting law enforcement ...

I am also willing (and have done so in the past) to contact the authorities myself should the situation call for it (to reduce drama, and to protect the person in question) ...

Do local police departments in the US really care about wiki-wars ... or is he just trying to score do-gooder points on his cadet record?

Yes, I know, "if I did nothing wrong I would have nothing to fear" but isn't this all becoming a bit Orwellian? Give the guy a red sash and sign him up for the Junior Anti-Sex League.

If Checkusers and admins are off taking private information, sharing it with others according to their whim, and reporting individuals to the Police state, shouldn't it all be transparent, accountable and recorded somewhere?

I mean, who is he to judge who gets what? Is there no policy on this?

[Grep]

I mean, who is he to judge who gets what? Is there no policy on this?

Think of it as the violence inherent in the system.

[MBisanz]

Off of Tiptoety's nomination statement :

it states that CheckUsers may release the data of an editor "Where it is reasonably necessary to protect the rights, property or safety of the Wikimedia Foundation, its users or the ''public''." Because of this, I am not opposed to releasing the information of a specific user (should the situation warrant it) to another single user for the purpose of contacting law enforcement but will not release the information to the community at large as it serves no purpose and violates the person's privacy. I am also willing (and have done so in the past) to contact the authorities myself should the situation call for it (to reduce drama, and to protect the person in question).

So, we're going to start releasing CU data to LE as part of SOP?

...this really, really stinks....

WMF doesn't even bother to set forth a reasonable TOS agreement and now we have a high school student (is he a minor too?) ready to release on his own initiative private information to law enforcement. To what possible end given that any and all use of the website is permitted by the absence of a TOS? Surely if a credible threat of harm is made they wouldn't leave it in this youngsters hands? Yet here he is just itching to engage law enforcement. The Privacy Policy is the sole acceptance of any responsibility by the WMF board of trustees for what happens on the site. The trustees need to step-in themselves or instruct Gardner here and, without regard to any community process, make it clear this kid doesn't get access to this information.

I suppose it is worth pointing to clause 6 of Part VII of the privacy policy:

Where it is reasonably necessary to protect the rights, property or safety of the Wikimedia Foundation, its users or the public.

Not saying it is wise, right, or whatever, but it does at least read as a broad clause to me.

[GlassBeadGame]

Off of Tiptoety's nomination statement :

it states that CheckUsers may release the data of an editor "Where it is reasonably necessary to protect the rights, property or safety of the Wikimedia Foundation, its users or the ''public''." Because of this, I am not opposed to releasing the information of a specific user (should the situation warrant it) to another single user for the purpose of contacting law enforcement but will not release the information to the community at large as it serves no purpose and violates the person's privacy. I am also willing (and have done so in the past) to contact the authorities myself should the situation call for it (to reduce drama, and to protect the person in question).

So, we're going to start releasing CU data to LE as part of SOP?

...this really, really stinks....

WMF doesn't even bother to set forth a reasonable TOS agreement and now we have a high school student (is he a minor too?) ready to release on his own initiative private information to law enforcement. To what possible end given that any and all use of the website is permitted by the absence of a TOS? Surely if a credible threat of harm is made they wouldn't leave it in this youngsters hands? Yet here he is just itching to engage law enforcement. The Privacy Policy is the sole acceptance of any responsibility by the WMF board of trustees for what happens on the site. The trustees need to step-in themselves or instruct Gardner here and, without regard to any community process, make it clear this kid doesn't get access to this information.

I suppose it is worth pointing to clause 6 of Part VII of the privacy policy:

Where it is reasonably necessary to protect the rights, property or safety of the Wikimedia Foundation, its users or the public.

Not saying it is wise, right, or whatever, but it does at least read as a broad clause to me.

I have no problem with the WMF or its agents doing this. But not by a bust-happy high school student who they have no means to hold accountable.

[Kelly Martin]

Do local police departments in the US really care about wiki-wars ... or is he just trying to score do-gooder points on his cadet record?

There are very few situations where it would be reasonable to release checkuser information to law enforcement. Most of the cases where one might be tempted to are likely to be petty drama situations where dogoody types can be coopted into magnifying drama by the posting of ambiguous threats to do harm to oneself or another.

It's far more likely for checkuser information to be of interest in a civil suit (typically defamation or copyright infringement), in which case the plaintiff can just request it directly from the Foundation (and this happens more than you probably realize, since such requests are not generally discussed publicly and may be granted without even creating entry in the checkuser log as the developers can pull the relevant data directly from the database without a log).

[taiwopanfob]

I mean, who is he to judge who gets what? Is there no policy on this?

Think of it as the violence inherent in the system.

This looks like an accurate characterization. The policy basically says they can release information whenever they want, to whoever they wish, for whatever purpose they like, as long as it is supposedly "reasonable". And if it was all a big mistake, it's the user's problem, not theirs. "We tried our best ... suckah!" (See section "VII. Disclaimer".)

[A Horse With No Name]

I have never heard of a U.S. police department where a cadet has the same responsibilities of an academy-trained police officer, as per Tiptoey's tiptoeing.

He forgot to mention one key difference in his case: cadets cannot make arrests. A cadet, as per the Portland PD web site, is basically a glorified public security guard -- they are not involved in any serious criminal investigation or crime scene situations, but they can do benign stuff that any paid security guard can do.

I am really surprised that absolutely no one caught his lies when he was running for RfA.

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name: Sun 26th July 2009, 9:18pm

[Kelly Martin]

I have never heard of a U.S. police department where a cadet has the same responsibilities of an academy-trained police officer, as per Tiptoety's tiptoeing. If he was an auxiliary officer or a reserve officer, I could understand that statement. But that also requires extensive training, and there is a huge difference between being a trained officer and a cadet.

Not only that, but cadets (and also reserve auxiliaries and especially junior cadets) are told again and again that they are not sworn officers and that they are not empowered with the full powers, duties, and responsibilities as sworn officers, and that they are not to act as if they have such status, or present themselves as such to others, if they ever want to actually achieve the status of sworn officer.

He forgot to mention one key difference in his case: cadets cannot make arrests. A cadet, as per the Portland PD web site, is basically a glorified public security guard -- they are not involved in any serious criminal investigation or crime scene situations, but they can do benign stuff that any paid security guard can do.

Yup. A cadet has exactly the same power to effect an arrest as any citizen. They're not sworn officers. If they pretend to act as if they are sworn officers, they commit the offense of "impersonating a police officer", for which they can be arrested, which would seriously harm their chances of actually becoming a police officer.

I think one of the purposes of these programs is to identify people unfit to serve as police officers so they can be blackballed early on before the state spends a bunch of money training them.

[A Horse With No Name]

I have never heard of a U.S. police department where a cadet has the same responsibilities of an academy-trained police officer, as per Tiptoety's tiptoeing. If he was an auxiliary officer or a reserve officer, I could understand that statement. But that also requires extensive training, and there is a huge difference between being a trained officer and a cadet.

Not only that, but cadets (and also reserve auxiliaries and especially junior cadets) are told again and again that they are not sworn officers and that they are not empowered with the full powers, duties, and responsibilities as sworn officers, and that they are not to act as if they have such status, or present themselves as such to others, if they ever want to actually achieve the status of sworn officer.

He forgot to mention one key difference in his case: cadets cannot make arrests. A cadet, as per the Portland PD web site, is basically a glorified public security guard -- they are not involved in any serious criminal investigation or crime scene situations, but they can do benign stuff that any paid security guard can do.

Yup. A cadet has exactly the same power to effect an arrest as any citizen. They're not sworn officers. If they pretend to act as if they are sworn officers, they commit the offense of "impersonating a police officer", for which they can be arrested, which would seriously harm their chances of actually becoming a police officer.

I think one of the purposes of these programs is to identify people unfit to serve as police officers so they can be blackballed early on before the state spends a bunch of money training them.

I think this character is unfit for any job that requires decision making and carrying the burden of responsibility. Wikipedia is chicken dip, in the ultimate scheme of things, but I am genuinely concerned that someone of this personality would possibly be in a position that enables him to carry firearms and deprive people of their liberty.

Tiptoey doesn't get my votes.

[LaraLove]

It's good that his nomination is questioned.

Wonder if people remember what a Cabal butt-nozzle Tiptoety really is?

Does anyone remember this? Wherein that snotty teenaged cop-wannabe blocked a series of accounts, based on extremely sketchy evidence, directly on the instigation of Guy, Will Beback, GWH and (inevitably) The Slim Bitch.

And I still think this was a classic.
(You remember--it started out as an April Fool's joke.
Makes one wonder if Tip's nose is buried up Raul's ass.)

I don't see how Raul's bullshit shows TipToeTy is buried up his ass. I didn't get that impression.

[Kelly Martin]

I think this character is unfit for any job that requires decision making and carrying the burden of responsibility. Wikipedia is chicken dip, in the ultimate scheme of things, but I am genuinely concerned that someone of this personality would possibly be in a position that enables him to carry firearms and deprive people of their liberty.

You never know, he might grow into it. Very few people survive their twenties without changing somewhat.

I bet him and Dan Rosenthal get along like gangbusters.

[A Horse With No Name]

I think this character is unfit for any job that requires decision making and carrying the burden of responsibility. Wikipedia is chicken dip, in the ultimate scheme of things, but I am genuinely concerned that someone of this personality would possibly be in a position that enables him to carry firearms and deprive people of their liberty.

You never know, he might grow into it. Very few people survive their twenties without changing somewhat.

I bet him and Dan Rosenthal get along like gangbusters.

I strongly doubt it. Once a liar, always a liar.

Dan Rosenthal is a f**king idiot. I feel terrible for the people who rely on him for legal assistance.

[Nerd]

Dan Rosenthal is a f**king idiot. I feel terrible for the people who rely on him for legal assistance.

People do? Goodness gracious me.

[Cla68]

I have never heard of a U.S. police department where a cadet has the same responsibilities of an academy-trained police officer, as per Tiptoety's tiptoeing. If he was an auxiliary officer or a reserve officer, I could understand that statement. But that also requires extensive training, and there is a huge difference between being a trained officer and a cadet.

Not only that, but cadets (and also reserve auxiliaries and especially junior cadets) are told again and again that they are not sworn officers and that they are not empowered with the full powers, duties, and responsibilities as sworn officers, and that they are not to act as if they have such status, or present themselves as such to others, if they ever want to actually achieve the status of sworn officer.

He forgot to mention one key difference in his case: cadets cannot make arrests. A cadet, as per the Portland PD web site, is basically a glorified public security guard -- they are not involved in any serious criminal investigation or crime scene situations, but they can do benign stuff that any paid security guard can do.

Yup. A cadet has exactly the same power to effect an arrest as any citizen. They're not sworn officers. If they pretend to act as if they are sworn officers, they commit the offense of "impersonating a police officer", for which they can be arrested, which would seriously harm their chances of actually becoming a police officer.

I think one of the purposes of these programs is to identify people unfit to serve as police officers so they can be blackballed early on before the state spends a bunch of money training them.

It seems that a lot of police agencies have these cadet programs in which teenagers can dress like policemen, ride along on patrols, participate in some training activities with the real police force, and are available for grunt work, like helping with crowd control at community events or combing the woods for lost hikers. I've seen it before where some of the teenage participants begin to identify themselves as police officers and start acting like they've already joined the force.

Obviously, those individuals have some perspective and control issues and probably aren't suited for actual police work, although in my experience it doesn't mean that they won't become actual police officers later. From what I've observed (and I mean no offense to anyone here who works in law enforcement or has family or friends who do), US police agencies could do a better job at screening potential applicants, but that's a subject for another thread.

If this kid on Wikipedia is falsely claiming that he's a police officer, he shouldn't be anywhere near any of the higher admin privileges.

This post has been edited by Cla68: Mon 27th July 2009, 1:49am

[Kelly Martin]

He's already on the Wikimedia Black Ops Team (a/k/a OTRS), so he's already inside the "wall of privacy". That also means he's at least 18, or else he's conned Cary into disregarding the privacy policy once again.

In any case, I concur that Wikipedia doesn't need whackers.

[Cock-up-over-conspiracy]

He's already on the Wikimedia Black Ops Team (a/k/a OTRS), so he's already inside the "wall of privacy". That also means he's at least 18, or else he's conned Cary into disregarding the privacy policy once again.

In any case, I concur that Wikipedia doesn't need whackers.

OTRS ... unfortunately it even sounds just like something out of Scientology.

Is it the same as screenshots, here?

[Sarcasticidealist]

Is it the same as screenshots, here?

Pretty much.