Hivemind, Alison vs. Daniel Brandt Options

[dtobias]

If you come in with the attitude of "declaring war" on something in Wikipedia, you should realize that this won't be very well liked there. They even have a Wikipedia is not a battleground policy.

[Piperdown]

Such language!

Seriously brandt you are about as in touch with whats happening on wikipedia as jimbo is.

Hey, Viridae, let me say one thing. At least I don't judge the folks on WR on the basis of that clueless moron above. Other people on WP will, most likely. I wish they wouldn't - he's not exactly representative.

Hey - I'm staying Straight Shooter. There's no games here. No Slimvirgin. No Cabal. It's business as usual for me, far as I'm concerned and I don't particularly care whether people see me as some shady Cabalist or not. By their deeds shall you know them. Right now I feel like the Jehovah guy, to be honest.

Oh, and fuck you, Brandt.

well, if alison's this upset, image how Brandt felt when his "BLP" was in its full glory, with a boatload of anonymous teenage admins allowed a hit-piece on that man's life and character be the first thing one sees when googling him.

Alison, I think you're a very nice person, you were very honest and courageous to do something that should have been any WP CU's job, and that was to checkuser me in the first place to show to other WP'ians that I was not wordbomb, and I thank you for that.

But, again, as I've posted here before. If your identity remaining secret is that important, don't use your real first name on WP, don't leave any clues between your WP presence to be able to be googled back to any personal blogs/pictures/sites/etc that you've volunteered out to the web, etc. I know that no one deserves any creepy stalking of any kind that involves actual stalking and not just allegations of.

Just change your name on WP and elsewhere to "Ralph", for starters. And don't post any personal information, tastes, favorite boy bands, bondage fetishes, vacation spots in obscure Indian resort towns, etc.

If anyone on the net is really being stalked, report it to the authorities, change your online behaviour to help prevent it, and shut up already about it on your net postings, any where.

Each of the subsequent "fuck you Brandt" comes off as less angry and more comic.

None of this is helping my opinion of Brandt, but those of you who are pig-piling him right now, grow the fuck UP. "You're a fuckhead", "you shithead", "eat blue kryptonite and die" - you all sound like punky little asshole kids. If you can't communicate what you want to say without being reduced to a simpering vulgar cretin, keep it to yourself.

ahem. you edit ED?

[wikiwhistle]

ahem. you edit ED?

Says he hasn't edited there for a while, but then again, isn't he a sock of Blu_Aardvark?

[Piperdown]

If anything, Brandt has been calling for less openness and transparency, hasn't he? I mean, a huge part of the problem all along is that too much content on Wikipedia (talk pages, RfC's, Arbcom cases, policy pages) is available via Google searches - not just articles. If WP would hide all that stuff from search engines completely, that would be a major improvement right there, without really impacting the site's usefulness as a reference work very much, if at all.

Yes, Brandt's point often seems to be that it's fine to be open and transparent... as long as you make sure that hardly anybody actually sees it.

IMHO, Brandt wants transparency in the processes and powers that can affect the lives of private individuals. And is making a WP:POINT to give those who he thinks are being hyprocritically enabling the obstruction of that, a taste of their own medicine to help them see the light. He could summarise, as already "asked and answered", again for everyone i suppose.

Remember folks, there are anonymous (even to each other) Checkusers, Admins, and worse on WP that know your IP address, which means where you live and your name with minimal effort needed, and if they deem you "notable" out of revenge, can fuck your google up for the rest of your life.

And so we have Daniel Brandt and Don Murphy, who did nothing wrong.

But we do have WP protecting abusively anonymous COI do-wrongers like SlimVirgin and Mantanmoreland. It's a weird wiki and it's not looking good to the peasants.

The peasants are starting to realise their 5 years of free labour is going to be transformed in Big Bucks for A Few. None of which contributed to WP content.

[wikiwhistle]

know your IP address, which means where you live and your name with minimal effort needed,

Ooh, how can I easily find out someone's name via their IP? via whois http://www.arin.net/whois/ I can only find the town they're in, and their Internet Service Provider.

If someone has a website, that's a different matter and can sometimes be easily seen by those who know how to look.

This post has been edited by wikiwhistle: Sun 23rd March 2008, 3:19pm

[Piperdown]

know your IP address, which means where you live and your name with minimal effort needed,

Ooh, how can I easily find out someone's name via their IP? via whois http://www.arin.net/whois/ I can only find the town they're in, and their Internet Service Provider.

If someone has a website and registers it with their real name etc then that's a different matter and can be easily seen to those who know how to look.

it's not very hard, with an IP, and without any legal proceedings, but using vaguely illegal P.I. techniques and connections, to find out who someone is if they've ever posted from an IP that is connected to a billable account in their name. cell phone records and bank accounts get tapped for info after that.

if you're ever really angered someone who either runs a website, or has friends that do, that collects (and they all do) IP addresses of its users, and you've ever edited from an IP that can be traced back to a payment from you, you can be found, even if its unethically done.

while googling the byrne stuff, I was amazed to find what has occurred in some of the techniques used to attack that company and its people. looks like some of them fought back.

These people do not play nice that have been going after Byrne and people (some maybe shady, some maybe salt-of-the-earth) who have been investigating this NSS thing since 2005 (before?). On WP, it's been civil on the surface, relatively, lol. Googling this story tells me there are Pulitzers waiting for some good not-yellow journalists, and a couple of good books in it, somewhere down the line.

This post has been edited by Piperdown: Sun 23rd March 2008, 3:28pm

[guy]

There's a British ISP called Plusnet, where the IP is absolutely fixed and can be resolved to smith@plusnet or whatever, giving a strong hint of your real name. Now me, I don't use it.

[Moulton]

See this article in the Wall Street Journal about the trials and tribulations of posting personal information on vanity web sites...

Covering Your Tracks Is Tricky in an Online World

[Alison]

well, if alison's this upset, image how Brandt felt when his "BLP" was in its full glory, with a boatload of anonymous teenage admins allowed a hit-piece on that man's life and character be the first thing one sees when googling him.

Unfortunately, I wasn't about for the whole Brandt debacle and am only dimly aware of what happened there. and, contrary to accusations made earlier here, I've never edited the PIR article nor any of its related articles from what I can remember.

Alison, I think you're a very nice person, you were very honest and courageous to do something that should have been any WP CU's job, and that was to checkuser me in the first place to show to other WP'ians that I was not wordbomb, and I thank you for that.

Thanks I strongly suspect I'd not make Straight Shooter these days, especially being a proven, paid-up member of the Slimvirgin Cabal™ but I intend my aim to stay true!

And BTW - you kept up your side of the unblock deal, as promised and showed yourself to be a man of honour. Respect!

But, again, as I've posted here before. If your identity remaining secret is that important, don't use your real first name on WP, don't leave any clues between your WP presence to be able to be googled back to any personal blogs/pictures/sites/etc that you've volunteered out to the web, etc. I know that no one deserves any creepy stalking of any kind that involves actual stalking and not just allegations of.

Just change your name on WP and elsewhere to "Ralph", for starters. And don't post any personal information, tastes, favorite boy bands, bondage fetishes, vacation spots in obscure Indian resort towns, etc.

- I did the "Ralph" thing before, as you know, and it didn't last long at all. It was an interesting lesson in social dynamics, though, as on-wiki, people treat you very differently based on one's perceived gender. Fun stuff! Ask me sometime about the admin who once tried to blackmail me when my very first "Ralph" wikiname was discovered by him. FTQ hinted about it last week.

If anyone on the net is really being stalked, report it to the authorities, change your online behaviour to help prevent it, and shut up already about it on your net postings, any where.

Well, as from today, that's exactly what I've done. Indeed, I met some very nice new friends this morning, so I did. I also did the horse-has-bolted-but-nevermind thing, and nuked a lot of my stuff.

Each of the subsequent "fuck you Brandt" comes off as less angry and more comic.

None of this is helping my opinion of Brandt, but those of you who are pig-piling him right now, grow the fuck UP. "You're a fuckhead", "you shithead", "eat blue kryptonite and die" - you all sound like punky little asshole kids. If you can't communicate what you want to say without being reduced to a simpering vulgar cretin, keep it to yourself.

ahem. you edit ED?

.... and this coming from the "LOL - I have AIDS" guy. I know which I find more offensive. As for the language, that's about the only time you'll hear that from me. And hey, I'm Irish and I'm allowed. S'there

[..] and since she was tampering with the PIR article and its redirects that made her fair game in my view. [..]

O RLY? Please show me where I did that. I'd really like to see it.

....--~~-- {{crickets}} --~~--....

This post has been edited by Alison: Mon 24th March 2008, 11:25pm

[Miltopia]

Such language!

Seriously brandt you are about as in touch with whats happening on wikipedia as jimbo is.

Hey, Viridae, let me say one thing. At least I don't judge the folks on WR on the basis of that clueless moron above. Other people on WP will, most likely. I wish they wouldn't - he's not exactly representative.

Hey - I'm staying Straight Shooter. There's no games here. No Slimvirgin. No Cabal. It's business as usual for me, far as I'm concerned and I don't particularly care whether people see me as some shady Cabalist or not. By their deeds shall you know them. Right now I feel like the Jehovah guy, to be honest.

Oh, and fuck you, Brandt.

well, if alison's this upset, image how Brandt felt when his "BLP" was in its full glory, with a boatload of anonymous teenage admins allowed a hit-piece on that man's life and character be the first thing one sees when googling him.

Alison, I think you're a very nice person, you were very honest and courageous to do something that should have been any WP CU's job, and that was to checkuser me in the first place to show to other WP'ians that I was not wordbomb, and I thank you for that.

But, again, as I've posted here before. If your identity remaining secret is that important, don't use your real first name on WP, don't leave any clues between your WP presence to be able to be googled back to any personal blogs/pictures/sites/etc that you've volunteered out to the web, etc. I know that no one deserves any creepy stalking of any kind that involves actual stalking and not just allegations of.

Just change your name on WP and elsewhere to "Ralph", for starters. And don't post any personal information, tastes, favorite boy bands, bondage fetishes, vacation spots in obscure Indian resort towns, etc.

If anyone on the net is really being stalked, report it to the authorities, change your online behaviour to help prevent it, and shut up already about it on your net postings, any where.

Each of the subsequent "fuck you Brandt" comes off as less angry and more comic.

None of this is helping my opinion of Brandt, but those of you who are pig-piling him right now, grow the fuck UP. "You're a fuckhead", "you shithead", "eat blue kryptonite and die" - you all sound like punky little asshole kids. If you can't communicate what you want to say without being reduced to a simpering vulgar cretin, keep it to yourself.

ahem. you edit ED?

You're as behind the times as ape-man MONGO, Piperdown. I haven't edited there more than a handful of edits, largely to troll Samsara/Anomo on my own article, in well over a year. I'd think you of all people would be careful to check the BASICS of what you're saying and not make hasty conclusions.

Besides, Piperdown's and Alison's ad hominems here are making my point better than I ever could: if this yelling and carrying on seems childish and pathetic to someone like trollish Miltopia, just imagine how this is coming off on a normal scale of maturity and decorum. Chill out. Screaming obscenities and making angry emoticons isn't going to stop anyone from knocking on your door, that's for sure. If you're angry, be ANGRY, and stop trying to get sympathy by acting like you're afraid, as you're clearly not.

[Alison]

For the amount of personal attacks launched on Brandt, who to his credit has remained remarkably calm here during this thread, Alison should be banned for some time, as the way she has been acting of late has been creepy and way too vitriolic over something that really matters very very little.

BAN HER!! BURN HER!! BAN HER!! BURN THE WITCH!!

...

... ... lol ...

Errm, for a moment there, I thought I was on Wikipedia You guys tasting the delicious, metally taste yet?

[Moulton]

We used to get crickets in the basement laundry room in the house I grew up in, back in Omaha. But 'crickets' was never used as an exclamatory expression.

Perhaps it's a UK thang.

So... What does it mean?

[Alison]

We used to get crickets in the basement laundry room in the house I grew up in, back in Omaha. But 'crickets' was never used as an exclamatory expression.

Perhaps it's a UK thang.

So... What does it mean?

It's that wide-open sound of emptiness ... just drifting over the plains, as my own voice echos back off the canyon walls.

(Either that, or it could be something I stole from Piperdown because I think it's apt )


PS: Don't suggest that Ireland is part of the UK, or you'll start another "Troubles" war on here

This post has been edited by Alison: Tue 25th March 2008, 12:26am

[The Joy]

We used to get crickets in the basement laundry room in the house I grew up in, back in Omaha. But 'crickets' was never used as an exclamatory expression.

Perhaps it's a UK thang.

So... What does it mean?

She's still waiting for Jonathan's response to her question and he has not responded.

Or maybe it means she's mentally hitting someone with a cricket bat? I didn't know baseball golf was still popular in the UK.

[Kato]

So... What does it mean?

Tumbleweed. Slow wind over the prairie. Conspicuous silence. Nothing to be heard but the ol' crickets.

[Moulton]

See, the fascinating thing about the chirping of crickets is that the din means that all is well.

The alarm sound, when there is danger, is the sudden cessation of the chirping.

[wikiwhistle]

PS: Don't suggest that Ireland is part of the UK, or you'll start another "Troubles" war on here

The North bit of it is, isn't it? Or do people even argue about that?

[Alison]

PS: Don't suggest that Ireland is part of the UK, or you'll start another "Troubles" war on here

The North bit of it is, isn't it? Or do people even argue about that?

Not the part I'm from, but yes it is. And, indeed, people will argue about that on WP until the proverbial cows come home. Tsk

(and whatever you do, *don't* mention the British Isles!!)

[Moulton]

It sounds to me like most of the participants on Wikipedia are enmeshed in what Deborah Tannen calls The Argument Culture.

There is a successor to The Argument Culture, called The Dialogue Culture, that is reputed to achieve better results.

It occurs to me that Wikipedia would produce better quality results if it evolved from The Argument Culture to The Dialogue Culture.

[Miltopia]

Simply, yet oddly intriguing Moulton. I think I went through a similar change. Maybe Wikipedia just needs to grow up.