Jimbo starts the push to 3,000,000!, Jimbo's new article means anything goes! Options

[WhispersOfWisdom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...Mzoli%27s_Meats

^ Jimmy Wales has a new restaurant article and I think this is a step toward letting anything and everything in. More of a news source and inclusion of news that is "fit to print."

I actually like the general idea of, "why not?"

Is it not better to have some information than no information? That is the question. I think Jimbo is telling us his opinion with his new article. A Google/WP team approaches, I think.

The article is up for deletion but the consensus is strong toward "Keep." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

[GlassBeadGame]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...Mzoli%27s_Meats

^ Jimmy Wales has a new restaurant article and I think this is a step toward letting anything and everything in. More of a news source and inclusion of news that is "fit to print."

I actually like the general idea of, "why not?"

Is it not better to have some information than no information? That is the question. I think Jimbo is telling us his opinion with his new article. A Google/WP team approaches, I think.

The article is up for deletion but the consensus is strong toward "Keep." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

When Mr. Wales writes a stub it as stubby as the hair on his chinny chin chin. He never did get around to that promised photograph for the article.

[everyking]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

[GlassBeadGame]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

Just another exercise in dysfunctional social networking. It means nothing other than encourages further lawlessness. The "keeps" (apart from Everyking who sincerely believes in such inclusion) are sniveling ass kisser seeking ingratiation points.

It won't help a "inclusionism" a bit next time a "more equal" community elite seeks to delete an article and the "keeps" get consensus mugged.

[WhispersOfWisdom]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case." From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat." (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat.")

[GlassBeadGame]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case." From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat." (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat.")

Your blinded by the the stare decisis in your eyes.

[BobbyBombastic]

maybe they offered the WMF free catering?

but seriously, how many here think your stub would have a chance of not being speedy deleted if you wrote it like this. watching Jimbo bumble around and do stuff like this is evidence to me that he has no idea what he has created and isn't all that interested in it, at least in the way his devoted "editors" are.

[Somey]

maybe they offered the WMF free catering?

I dunno... we shouldn't underestimate the intelligence of these WMF people. Anyone who's spent any time on the outskirts of Cape Town knows that the local meats are not quite Grade A, if you know what I mean. Ostriches, crocodiles, even certain types of insects... anything goes there meat-wise, apparently. Smart foundation-staffers know that it's best to stick with lentils, wild asparagus, and Indian-style vegetable curries, at least until you reach Johannesburg.

[Kato]

Ostriches, crocodiles, even certain types of insects... anything goes there meat-wise, apparently.

Jimbo lives in Florida. That's his breakfast.

[jorge]

Ostriches, crocodiles, even certain types of insects... anything goes there meat-wise, apparently.

Jimbo lives in Florida. That's his breakfast.

Do they serve pasta?

[thekohser]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...Mzoli%27s_Meats

^ Jimmy Wales has a new restaurant article and I think this is a step toward letting anything and everything in. More of a news source and inclusion of news that is "fit to print."

I actually like the general idea of, "why not?"

Is it not better to have some information than no information? That is the question. I think Jimbo is telling us his opinion with his new article. A Google/WP team approaches, I think.

The article is up for deletion but the consensus is strong toward "Keep." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

I love how Mzoli's Meats is notable and keepable, since it's written by Der Jimbo, but Norman Technologies was not, since it was written by Wikipedia Review.

Oh, Jimbo, you keep us so entertained with your meddling.

Greg

[SqueakBox]

Ostriches, crocodiles, even certain types of insects... anything goes there meat-wise, apparently.

Jimbo lives in Florida. That's his breakfast.

That is alligators not crocs who live in Florida (saw it on Bear Grills lasty night), Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...Mzoli%27s_Meats

^ Jimmy Wales has a new restaurant article and I think this is a step toward letting anything and everything in. More of a news source and inclusion of news that is "fit to print."

I actually like the general idea of, "why not?"

Is it not better to have some information than no information? That is the question. I think Jimbo is telling us his opinion with his new article. A Google/WP team approaches, I think.

The article is up for deletion but the consensus is strong toward "Keep." (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

We have such poor coverage of Africa and such bloated coverage of America that one can only assume the person who started this afd was trolling. The Kate tool should let us know how many new articles individuals create, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[^demon]

I AFD'd it. Trolling? Not hardly.

[Jaranda]

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo

[guy]

I AFD'd it. Trolling? Not hardly.

Welcome ^demon.

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo

Fair enough.

[The Joy]

This comment is getting more than a few angry at Jimbo.

It's only going to get more "interesting" from here on out. Put it on your watchlists, those not banned!

Remember, this is the man that insulted and made Zoe leave. Zoe could be rude but she didn't deserve the comment Jimbo gave her!

Anyone that opposes him is against the WikiWay! Or rather his WikiWay.

[thekohser]

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

I could not think of a better thing for Der Jimbo himself to do!

Oh, were it that easy.

Welcome to Wikipedia Review, you guys. As with a handful of others within this community, you probably now have the opinion that Wikipedia itself is a pretty cool idea, if only the boob named Jimbo Wales weren't participating in it. Sincerely, I think his decisions (and the power of his influence) account for 90% of the troubles on Wikipedia.

Greg

[Jaranda]

I just deleted the page, it was obviously restored, but I got insulted from Jimbo himself, no way I'm coming back to the project.

[SqueakBox]

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo

But why delete the article. That was highly disruptive as I was about to add another ref and found you had deleted. Perhaps you owe him an apology first. Admins should be held to high ustandards and it strikes me you abused that authority to make a point and disrupted innocent bystander users in the process, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo

But why delete the article. That was highly disruptive as I was about to add another ref and found you had deleted. Perhaps you owe him an apology first. Admins should be held to high ustandards and it strikes me you abused that authority to make a point and disrupted innocent bystander users in the process, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

And disruption by an 18 year old US schoolkid at that cached user page. Sigh, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[Jaranda]

He should own me an apology, if another editor tells a person to leave the project, they would be blocked. Jimbo told me and ^demon, (and possibly others) two editors who have been admins for over a year to leave the project, literally saying that we aren't wanted here. I been in the project for over two years, wrote hundreds of articles, only to get that treatment here from the founder. I know I "left" many times before, but seriously this is special circumstances.

[Unrepentant Vandal]

He's never going to apologise.

[GlassBeadGame]

He should own me an apology, if another editor tells a person to leave the project, they would be blocked. Jimbo told me and ^demon, (and possibly others) two editors who have been admins for over a year to leave the project, literally saying that we aren't wanted here. I been in the project for over two years, wrote hundreds of articles, only to get that treatment here from the founder. I know I "left" many times before, but seriously this is special circumstances.

I hope this is a radicalizing experience for you (both Jaranda and ^demon. ) You know a lot about the project. This knowledge can be put to good use in developing a thorough-going critique of the project. This is really the best way to advance those aspects of the project that attracted you in the first place.

Welcome (back) to WR.

[SqueakBox]

He should own me an apology, if another editor tells a person to leave the project, they would be blocked. Jimbo told me and ^demon, (and possibly others) two editors who have been admins for over a year to leave the project, literally saying that we aren't wanted here. I been in the project for over two years, wrote hundreds of articles, only to get that treatment here from the founder. I know I "left" many times before, but seriously this is special circumstances.

I am not commenting on your and Jimbo's dispute just that your disruptive actions afterwards led to disruption for others and there are much better ways of coping with your frustration (such as posting on WR) or if you need to make a point edit Jimbo user page as that would only make your point to him not the rest of us. I happen to think the deletion was a bad call and demon's initial speedy a terrible call, as I said before we lack coverage of Africa and have a bloated coverage of America and deletionists should surely work to reverse that trend by deleting the many unnotable US articles before going after one of the few articles about African culture that we have, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

He's never going to apologise.

Any bets? (and I do agree, and think it unliekly he'll strike his comments either as arbcom clerk newyorkbrad requested, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[Unrepentant Vandal]

He's never going to apologise.

Any bets? (and I do agree, and think it unliekly he'll strike his comments either as arbcom clerk newyorkbrad requested, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

A weasel apology is possible if those with guts go on about it enough, of course. But not a full, unconditional, apology. He can always argue he wasn't aiming it at Jaranda anyway.

[Jaranda]

I saw his comment on my talk page, he says it wasn't aiming on me, why the "some" people comment, the only people who argrued heavily for deletion was me and ^demon. He should clafify it better, anyways I'm not coming back.

[everyking]

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo

What did I say during your last admin nom? Do you remember?

Jimbo says and does cruel things all the time. He's treated me like shit on more than one occasion (and much more directly than here). If you need the project founder to be a nice guy, then yeah, you do need to find a new project.

[BobbyBombastic]

I saw his comment on my talk page, he says it wasn't aiming on me, why the "some" people comment, the only people who argrued heavily for deletion was me and ^demon. He should clafify it better, anyways I'm not coming back.

Oh for the love of Wikipedia. Jimbo should tell that fella to get a new hobby too. I just imagine this poor soul walking around saying "Oh for the love of Wikipedia" and "Sweet Wikipedia help us" when something goes wrong.

BTW, the title of this thread doesn't seem so far off now. That's Lamont for you though...he's just got an eye for these things!

[Derktar]

Well I daresay Jimbo does a good job boosting our membership.

I wonder how many more he will push off after this debacle is over.

And poor Scientizzle, his effort to stem the flames from rising is assuredly futile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=159041525

This post has been edited by Derktar:

[Kato]

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo

What did I say during your last admin nom? Do you remember?

Jimbo says and does cruel things all the time. He's treated me like shit on more than one occasion (and much more directly than here). If you need the project founder to be a nice guy, then yeah, you do need to find a new project.

Indeed. The guy is just an ignorant oaf. No getting away from it. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/mad.gif)

Jaranda is in good company here.

I'm sharpening my quill for a major lambasting of the man and his attitude which I hope will help me exorcise my own personal loathing. I just wish Der Jimbo - rapidly resembling Duh Jimbo - would excuse himself from the whole damn internet and find a new hobby. We'd all be better off for it.

[everyking]

Well I daresay Jimbo does a good job boosting our membership.

I wonder how many more he will push off after this debacle is over.

And poor Scientizzle, his effort to stem the flames from rising is assuredly futile.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=159041525

Honestly, if it only bothers the deletionists, Wikipedia may be better off. Many of them destroy more than they create. As it is, though, it looks like it's just Jaranda leaving, and of course he'll come back soon enough, as he always does.

Kelly Martin continues her recent streak of incongruously displaying intelligence and good judgment with her comment to the debate.

[Kato]

Kelly Martin continues her recent streak of incongruously displaying intelligence and good judgment with her comment to the debate.

In support of keeping Der Jimbo's little folly, Martin writes:

Most other stubs about perfectly notable topics will not be saved, not because they shouldn't be in the encyclopedia, but because Wikipedia's community has become so rushed, so immediatist, that it is not willing to allow embryonic articles even a tiny modicum of time to incubate, to become real articles. If Wikipedia had been run in 2003 the way it is today, it would be lucky to have 10,000 articles.

This confuses me. So she's talking about something called an encyclopedia. She then states with apparent horror that this encyclopedia could have had a mere 10,000 articles. She also talks about something she calls notability.

Nope. Completely lost me. Don't see no intelligence or judgement there. Just someone deluded into thinking they were creating a grand body of work worthy of being called an encyclopedia. When in fact, it's some tatty mess, where people are creating whole articles on subjects less "notable" than my morning stools.

(IMG:http://i210.photobucket.com/albums/bb311/Kato90125/sausage.jpg)

"Can I write an article about you?"

[The Joy]

Isn't Jimbo's apology more of a non-apology apology? He's not really saying sorry, he's just saying I wasn't referring to you when I said get off the wiki! I mean, he calls demon and Jaranda "immature" here.

I sometimes wonder if Jimbo regrets founding WP and despairs at the way things are. I'm surprised he's back after being away mainly to tend to Wikia. I wonder if this is a test to confirm his own suspicions about where WP has gone in six years? And what if WP has failed his test?

I've only participated in maybe 3 AFDs (2 being Daniel Brandt's) and I've found that I'm not really a deletionist but more of a mergist (or integrationist?) as I don't like information being swept away. However, I usually think that information could be merged or placed into one central article. But if someone can assure me that an article can be well-written and well-sourced without being likely minimized and merged, then I say more power to them and I won't get in their way (I might even help them if they're polite).

[WhispersOfWisdom]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case." From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat." (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat.")

When I was a little kid, I learned a powerful lesson whenever I went to the park for playtime:

The kid with the ball always gets to choose the game. "Because it is my ball!" I would hear.

[BobbyBombastic]

I sometimes wonder if Jimbo regrets founding WP and despairs at the way things are. I'm surprised he's back after being away mainly to tend to Wikia. I wonder if this is a test to confirm his own suspicions about where WP has gone in six years? And what if WP has failed his test?

If he knew what was going on he would probably regret it. Actually, most people that I know that have ran "big websites" have regretted it, in one form or another. Jimbo builds up a wall to most of this, which is a big reason Wikipedia has existed for so long. If he was engaged and knew what was going on "at the ground level" he would probably be tempted to pull the plug. I welcome the argument that says Jimbo knows what is going on and approves of it, but I think no such thing is happening. Whatever Jimbo, Larry, and the first influential members had in mind is nearly gone and it has been trending that way for quite a while.


Edit:
Moreover, the "find a new hobby" comment is actually a little anachronistic, meaning that it would have just gotten a passing glance in the early days. The patronising pseudo civility is a rather new construct, according to some of the things I have looked at.

Which leads me to my next point: Jaranda and ^demon, you didn't actually think this was an encyclopedia and therefore worthy of your time, did you? It is a lot of things, but a serious project it is not. Jimbo has stated this in a round about way with his comments on that AfD. "Find a new hobby, this really isn't worth your time," is basically what he said. The community would be better off realizing that this is not an encyclopedia, both for their mental health and to clarify what motivates them to be on WP, but the Foundation will never face this fact, due to obvious reasons. Why did you two contribute for so long, only to be told be the sole flounder you should find a new hobby?

[Jaranda]

I just read jimbo comment, I'm asking for desyropping, purging my password to random letters, and disabling email. I told a couple of people in IRC that I may be back, as I was just upset, but after his comment, fuck that. Bye Jimbo, nice seing you.

[Jaranda]

Note I'm also going to be more active here.

[anthony]

I sometimes wonder if Jimbo regrets founding WP and despairs at the way things are.

Probably. According to Alex, the lawyer who helped Jimmy write the initial bylaws, he has said that he regrets turning Wikipedia into a non-profit instead of keeping it as a for-profit.

Of course, I kind of have to agree with him that that was a big mistake.

I'm surprised he's back after being away mainly to tend to Wikia. I wonder if this is a test to confirm his own suspicions about where WP has gone in six years? And what if WP has failed his test?

I suspect some big changes are coming to Wikipedia pretty soon, and they're going to need a strong push from Jimbo to gain acceptance. Namely, some sort of "stable versions" feature is forthcoming. I haven't been able to check it out yet. Depending on the implementation it could be a good thing or a really bad thing. Maybe the "good thing" part is wishful thinking, though. As long as certain admins stay in power I'm sure they'll find a way to ensure that their screwed up version of history remains the only accepted one.

I've only participated in maybe 3 AFDs (2 being Daniel Brandt's) and I've found that I'm not really a deletionist but more of a mergist (or integrationist?) as I don't like information being swept away. However, I usually think that information could be merged or placed into one central article.

Personally I think there's too much merging in Wikipedia already. What's wrong with a five to ten line article?

I just read jimbo comment, I'm asking for desyropping, purging my password to random letters, and disabling email.

Nah, don't do that. Just PM your password to me. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[Emperor]

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo

Welcome! ^demon revolting against the god-king... we need some of our creative writers to address this, i.e. when we get 1/3 we go back and make war.

The funny thing to me is, Jimbo looks good to me when he contributes. At least he's pitching in and generating some content. If he had just started the article and walked away without saying anything rude, I wouldn't see anything wrong with it. Also seeing him get some of the same aggravation that an anonymous nobody would get is nice to see.

I don't know you two, but as a general statement what he said about people finding new hobbies is 100% true. Maybe he's thinking about doing something to reduce the MMORPGing that's been disrupting the project and driving so many people away.

Maybe he's listening, or he's spot-checked the contribs of some of his heavy-players and realized that they are essentially deleting more useful content than they are generating.

The problem for Jimbo is that he's discovered firsthand that it's way way harder to create content than it used to be. Without new content, his site does not thrive, and this is worrying him.

Anyway I applaud ^demon and Jaranda for standing up for their principles. It's nice to see that even the admins play by the rules sometimes.

[Jaranda]

Reading though some of the comments said about me in wikipedia, Now I'm being treated like I'm a bad banned troll, just for one deletion that I did that I don't regret at all.

[GlassBeadGame]

Reading though some of the comments said about me in wikipedia, Now I'm being treated like I'm a bad banned troll, just for one deletion that I did that I don't regret at all.

Of course you only did what was clearly right according to what they pretend to be the rules. But underneath those rules is an ugly social networking environment based only on status and power. You have ran rather seriously afoul of this other order.

[Jaranda]

I'm been thinking about writing book about wikipedia for a while. After the incident that happened, I'll likely write one.

[Jonny Cache]

Some people should excuse themselves from the project and find a new hobby. [[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 19:25, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Jimbo told me and ^demon to leave the project, I followed his command, I'm gone until I hear an apology from Jimbo.

Take a number and sit down.

And say Hello, Larry! for us.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[Derktar]

I'm been thinking about writing book about wikipedia for a while. After the incident that happened, I'll likely write one.

Hell, I'm sure most of us would love to help edit, proofread it, and collect evidence for you. Oh and get Jonny to write the forward and throw some cache-isms throughout and you got yourself a bestseller there.

[GlassBeadGame]

I'm been thinking about writing book about wikipedia for a while. After the incident that happened, I'll likely write one.

Hell, I'm sure most of us would love to help edit, proofread it, and collect evidence for you. Oh and get Jonny to write the forward and throw some cache-isms throughout and you got yourself a bestseller there.

Don't forget the chapter on Handles, Scandals and Vandals.

[Jaranda]

Yea I'm likely the best candidate to write a book about the site, as I was long-respected, long-standing admin until yesterday and know everything you need to know about the site. A current admin, with the exception of a couple users (like JzG) is too bias for wikipedia to write a book, while most of you guys made too much enemies, or don't know as much as I do, and several are way too bias against the site.

[Derktar]

Don't forget the chapter on Handles, Scandals and Vandals.

Very catchy!

[Kato]

Yea I'm likely the best candidate to write a book about the site, as I was long-respected, long-standing admin until yesterday and know everything you need to know about the site. A current admin, with the exception of a couple users (like JzG) is too bias for wikipedia to write a book, while most of you guys made too much enemies, or don't know as much as I do, and several are way too bias against the site.

Whoaaah. Hold yer horses J-man. Best man to write a book?

Bah!

I was so deep into that thing that when I came up for air one time, my head popped out of Jimbo's toilet bowl.

I'm opting for a book of short stories about WP, Conan Doyle style, each recounting a different strange case that unfolded. I made no real enemies there, at least not publicly, and my pipe and deerstalker proved the perfect disguise.

I'll race yer to the publishers, Doctor Watson.

[Somey]

I'm been thinking about writing book about wikipedia for a while. After the incident that happened, I'll likely write one.

Novel or fact-based exposé? I hope you get further than I did!

I got about a third of the way through a sort of alternate-universe novel-like thingy, which I fancied as a sort of David Sedaris-meets-Clive Barker sort of affair, or maybe a little like some of the early Jonathan Lethem novels. But I'm not that talented, I discovered. I got bogged down in minutiae and the inner thoughts of minor characters... and the sex lives too, of course. You've got to avoid the sex lives.

[Castle Rock]

and the sex lives too, of course. You've got to avoid the sex lives.

So no sordid stories of what happens at WikiMania, stays at WikiMania? I'm sure that more than one Wiki-liaison occurred there.

[Jaranda]

I don't think a wikipedia nobel is a good idea, doesn't tell anything about the site.

I prefer to write a dummies book, I offered already.

[Jonny Cache]

I've been thinking about writing book about wikipedia for a while. After the incident that happened, I'll likely write one.

Novel or fact-based exposé? I hope you get further than I did!

I got about a third of the way through a sort of alternate-universe novel-like thingy, which I fancied as a sort of David Sedaris-meets-Clive Barker sort of affair, or maybe a little like some of the early Jonathan Lethem novels. But I'm not that talented, I discovered. I got bogged down in minutiae and the inner thoughts of minor characters … and the sex lives too, of course. You've got to avoid the sex lives.

I was thinking this, too, that it'd have to be SF — maybe S'Words & (Re*Libel) Sourcery — as I find that no one believes the reality of it unless they've actually been thru that wikiparallel underverse themselves, and if they have, then of course no one believes them because of that crazed glint in their eyes. Probably the tinfoil hat doesn't help with their reception, either — their press ¬radio reception.

But I sense that the style of S.Lem would ∑how be more fitting — only it would have to be written in wholly untranslatable Polish. Yes, I know the untranslatable part goes without saying — it's why those Polish logicians are always so damn good at tautologies.

G'nite Folks, Derive Safely —

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[everyking]

Yea I'm likely the best candidate to write a book about the site, as I was long-respected, long-standing admin until yesterday and know everything you need to know about the site. A current admin, with the exception of a couple users (like JzG) is too bias for wikipedia to write a book, while most of you guys made too much enemies, or don't know as much as I do, and several are way too bias against the site.

First of all, a person who writes a book should be a good writer. Secondly, you're not going to write a book anyway. Thirdly, you're singling out JzG as a good admin?

And finally, when you come back, is it going to be another admin nom, or just a request to a bureaucrat?

[WhispersOfWisdom]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case." From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat." (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat.")

When I was a little kid, I learned a powerful lesson whenever I went to the park for playtime:

The kid with the ball always gets to choose the game. "Because it is my ball!" I would hear.

I hear about a book and who is going to write a book? Great idea.

I think we have a great screenplay and I see a producer/film person around here...........Don?

Mr. Murphy, who would you have play Jimbo in your movie?

A reality show would be good.

Charge! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[everyking]

And finally, when you come back, is it going to be another admin nom, or just a request to a bureaucrat?

Oh, wait a minute, I just found out, you deleted the article while discussion was underway? You'll won't get the tools back now, RfA or not. Totally inappropriate.

[Jaranda]

I no longer have access to the account, the only way i can get syropped again is if i create a new account and go to RFA after three or four months, in which no way in hell I'm doing.

Also about the book, I do have heavy writing experience for my age, and not all wikipedia.

[blissyu2]

I no longer have access to the account, the only way i can get syropped again is if i create a new account and go to RFA after three or four months, in which no way in hell I'm doing.

Also about the book, I do have heavy writing experience for my age, and not all wikipedia.

A book, as in we'd have to pay to read it? Hmm. I don't know about anyone else, but I'd rather it be an online blog post or essay or some such. Or at least give us some teasers.

But then again, more power to you if you are able to write one.

[everyking]

I no longer have access to the account, the only way i can get syropped again is if i create a new account and go to RFA after three or four months, in which no way in hell I'm doing.

Also about the book, I do have heavy writing experience for my age, and not all wikipedia.

Well, if history is any guide, you'll regret doing that. You say it's different this time because Jimbo insulted you (supposedly). Why exactly is that such a big deal? He's insulted me, and I haven't quit. It just seems strange to me that you would make your participation contingent on what Jimbo thinks about you. If Wikipedia is worth doing, it's still worth doing even if its founder is rude to you. The value of participation goes a lot deeper than some personality clash, at least for me.

[thekohser]

I no longer have access to the account, the only way i can get syropped again is if i create a new account and go to RFA after three or four months, in which no way in hell I'm doing.

Also about the book, I do have heavy writing experience for my age, and not all wikipedia.

Well, if history is any guide, you'll regret doing that. You say it's different this time because Jimbo insulted you (supposedly). Why exactly is that such a big deal? He's insulted me, and I haven't quit. It just seems strange to me that you would make your participation contingent on what Jimbo thinks about you. If Wikipedia is worth doing, it's still worth doing even if its founder is rude to you. The value of participation goes a lot deeper than some personality clash, at least for me.

I disagree, Everyking. Maybe there is something to quitting the project due to what Jimbo thinks. Maybe the various unpaid editors are finally starting to realize how much Jimbo personally profits (in both fame and fortune) from all the content, links, and traffic that the volunteers have worked so hard to construct; that if he can't even be civil to those who are merely trying to keep the encyclopedia encyclopedic, it's just not worth contributing to Jimbo's project any more.

Conversely, maybe if Jimbo left the project, some of these offended editors would be more than happy to return to the original mission -- creating an encyclopedia, not a meat market directory. If Jimbo conceives that a meat market directory is what the world needs, then there's already a place for that.

Greg

[SqueakBox]

I saw his comment on my talk page, he says it wasn't aiming on me, why the "some" people comment, the only people who argrued heavily for deletion was me and ^demon. He should clafify it better, anyways I'm not coming back.

Actually there were a couple of anons making trolling comments as was demon but you weren't and thus Jimbo's comments of bafflement directed to you were appropriate as you were not making the obvious trolling argument that these others were. I can understand how Jimbo would feel pissed off with people claiming the only reason people vioted to keep was because he started the article. Complete rubbish and highly trolling. But not your argument. Did you see Mikkalai's comment on your talk page? If you aren't getting anything personally out of wikipedia it is time to leave regardless and if you are, no matter how pissed of you are, it is better to stay. Which is exactly right, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[WhispersOfWisdom]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case." From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat." (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat.")

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Art...Mzoli%27s_Meats


The debate about deletion became heated and it has now been courtesy blanked.

I think more editors should use this article as law now.

The article stays as a "keep" and hopefully some of the people in and around that community will benefit by having the international publicity and the good will of WP to send consumers their way.

[Jonny Cache]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case". From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat". (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat".)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mzoli's Meats

The debate about deletion became heated and it has now been courtesy blanked.

I think more editors should use this article as law now.

The article stays as a "keep" and hopefully some of the people in and around that community will benefit by having the international publicity and the good will of WP to send consumers their way.

Youse guys should look up the etymology of the word privilege in the dictionary.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[the fieryangel]

I saw his comment on my talk page, he says it wasn't aiming on me, why the "some" people comment, the only people who argrued heavily for deletion was me and ^demon. He should clafify it better, anyways I'm not coming back.

Actually there were a couple of anons making trolling comments as was demon but you weren't and thus Jimbo's comments of bafflement directed to you were appropriate as you were not making the obvious trolling argument that these others were. I can understand how Jimbo would feel pissed off with people claiming the only reason people vioted to keep was because he started the article. Complete rubbish and highly trolling. But not your argument. Did you see Mikkalai's comment on your talk page? If you aren't getting anything personally out of wikipedia it is time to leave regardless and if you are, no matter how pissed of you are, it is better to stay. Which is exactly right, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

Jimbo understood exactly what was going on and is playing the passive aggressive role, as usual.

Could you (and everybody else) please stop using the word "Troll", "trolling" etc. This expression is completely meaningless, even on Wikipedia (where it's become such a cliché that it means everything and nothing at once). If you can't figure how to say it without using this word, it's probably all in your mind anyway.

Everybody should quit Wikipedia. Why work so that this ridiculous man can do the chachacha with the Dutch royal family?

Doesn't anybody else find this person so completely arriviste as to be impossible to even discuss, much less talk to?

[SqueakBox]

I no longer have access to the account, the only way i can get syropped again is if i create a new account and go to RFA after three or four months, in which no way in hell I'm doing.

Also about the book, I do have heavy writing experience for my age, and not all wikipedia.

Well, if history is any guide, you'll regret doing that. You say it's different this time because Jimbo insulted you (supposedly). Why exactly is that such a big deal? He's insulted me, and I haven't quit. It just seems strange to me that you would make your participation contingent on what Jimbo thinks about you. If Wikipedia is worth doing, it's still worth doing even if its founder is rude to you. The value of participation goes a lot deeper than some personality clash, at least for me.

I disagree, Everyking. Maybe there is something to quitting the project due to what Jimbo thinks. Maybe the various unpaid editors are finally starting to realize how much Jimbo personally profits (in both fame and fortune) from all the content, links, and traffic that the volunteers have worked so hard to construct; that if he can't even be civil to those who are merely trying to keep the encyclopedia encyclopedic, it's just not worth contributing to Jimbo's project any more.

Conversely, maybe if Jimbo left the project, some of these offended editors would be more than happy to return to the original mission -- creating an encyclopedia, not a meat market directory. If Jimbo conceives that a meat market directory is what the world needs, then there's already a place for that.

Greg

Its not an issue of whether a meat restaurant is notable but whether an African article is notable. We all know fully well if it was an American meat market that we would have an article with no debate but anything African appears to be unnotable to the highly inteligent, well travelled average wikipedian editor. IMO the anti-African sentiments displayed are disgusting, wikipedia is not an encycloepdia solely about the rich, first world, or at least not yet, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[Emperor]

The debate about deletion became heated and it has now been courtesy blanked.

Crap did anybody save it? It was very revealing.

[WhispersOfWisdom]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case". From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat". (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat".)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mzoli's Meats

The debate about deletion became heated and it has now been courtesy blanked.

I think more editors should use this article as law now.

The article stays as a "keep" and hopefully some of the people in and around that community will benefit by having the international publicity and the good will of WP to send consumers their way.

Youse guys should look up the etymology of the word privilege in the dictionary.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Just click the link and go to history.

Hit on one of the older versions before Squeak blanked it.
I agree with Squeak on this. It should stay and some good will come of it. No doubt.

[SqueakBox]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case". From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat". (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat".)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mzoli's Meats

The debate about deletion became heated and it has now been courtesy blanked.

I think more editors should use this article as law now.

The article stays as a "keep" and hopefully some of the people in and around that community will benefit by having the international publicity and the good will of WP to send consumers their way.

Youse guys should look up the etymology of the word privilege in the dictionary.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Just click the link and go to history.

Hit on one of the older versions before Squeak blanked it.
I agree with Squeak on this. It should stay and some good will come of it. No doubt.

It wasnt me who blanked it, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[WhispersOfWisdom]

It's actually quite surprising because Jimbo has been turning pretty strongly towards deletionism in recent years. I wouldn't have thought by this point he'd want Wikipedia to have an article like this, and actually go to the trouble to create it himself (thereby effectively shielding it against deletion). Does anyone know if he has some kind of personal involvement with the restaurant?

But anyway, it's definitely a good thing; even if it doesn't mean Jimbo is moving back towards inclusionism, at least it can be pointed to as an example of a subject with minor, local notability that is endorsed by Jimbo, which could help swing other debates.

I believe this is a very strong political statement, even if not fully subconscious and / or subliminal, that the Jimmy Wales story will help the world gain full employment, end starvation, and help give peace a chance. I say if one family eats and one child is educated because of the publicity to Jimmy's new restaurant, he did a good deed. Now let this be a lesson to all of the deletionists that have taken such a strong hold on the encyclopedia.

In law, we call this a "precedent case". From now on re: notability, WP should use the term, "Jimbo's Meat". (e.g., I vote keep, citing "Jimbo's Meat".)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mzoli's Meats

The debate about deletion became heated and it has now been courtesy blanked.

I think more editors should use this article as law now.

The article stays as a "keep" and hopefully some of the people in and around that community will benefit by having the international publicity and the good will of WP to send consumers their way.

Youse guys should look up the etymology of the word privilege in the dictionary.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Just click the link and go to history.

Hit on one of the older versions before Squeak blanked it.
I agree with Squeak on this. It should stay and some good will come of it. No doubt.

It wasnt me who blanked it, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

Sorry. I know just enough to get into trouble. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

[everyking]

I no longer have access to the account, the only way i can get syropped again is if i create a new account and go to RFA after three or four months, in which no way in hell I'm doing.

Also about the book, I do have heavy writing experience for my age, and not all wikipedia.

Well, if history is any guide, you'll regret doing that. You say it's different this time because Jimbo insulted you (supposedly). Why exactly is that such a big deal? He's insulted me, and I haven't quit. It just seems strange to me that you would make your participation contingent on what Jimbo thinks about you. If Wikipedia is worth doing, it's still worth doing even if its founder is rude to you. The value of participation goes a lot deeper than some personality clash, at least for me.

I disagree, Everyking. Maybe there is something to quitting the project due to what Jimbo thinks. Maybe the various unpaid editors are finally starting to realize how much Jimbo personally profits (in both fame and fortune) from all the content, links, and traffic that the volunteers have worked so hard to construct; that if he can't even be civil to those who are merely trying to keep the encyclopedia encyclopedic, it's just not worth contributing to Jimbo's project any more.

Conversely, maybe if Jimbo left the project, some of these offended editors would be more than happy to return to the original mission -- creating an encyclopedia, not a meat market directory. If Jimbo conceives that a meat market directory is what the world needs, then there's already a place for that.

Greg

Its not an issue of whether a meat restaurant is notable but whether an African article is notable. We all know fully well if it was an American meat market that we would have an article with no debate but anything African appears to be unnotable to the highly inteligent, well travelled average wikipedian editor. IMO the anti-African sentiments displayed are disgusting, wikipedia is not an encycloepdia solely about the rich, first world, or at least not yet, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

I haven't encountered this, personally. I've written lots of content about both Western and African subjects (more of the latter than the former), and I've only been harassed by deletionists about the former. I've found that writing about Africa is relatively stress-free in that regard (perhaps deletionists are just too myopic to realize that African subjects even exist).

[WhispersOfWisdom]

I am an optimist and I would like to include everything; while simply re-directing items to appropriate topic areas when a particular piece of information does not require a separate article. Why is it bad to have WP also function as a source of all information? (I must add that the information must be reliable and truthful; not hurtful and nasty.)

If all the information available in the entire universe is going to exist on Wikipedia, then I must assume Jimbo’s new article sets a good precedent.

The amazing thing about his stub to me is that his system worked when there was the slightest bit of empathy, and / or, reflection on why and how it can work.

Maybe “someone else” would not have had the same positive outcome, however, that is not the point. The point is, if people are willing to work at something, even a tiny little butcher shop can get a day in the sun. That, to me is a good thing. The shop, “Mzoli Meats,” will benefit from this exercise in freedom, in my opinion.

If the design of WP allows for a default to “keep,” then the project has a chance of long term survival. I do not know enough about WP to know if any of this is realistic, but it makes a great deal of sense. The fact is, the project needs a leader; a final source of leadership and decision making process. It appears as though a leader surfaced this week. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[thekohser]

Its not an issue of whether a meat restaurant is notable but whether an African article is notable. We all know fully well if it was an American meat market that we would have an article with no debate but anything African appears to be unnotable to the highly inteligent, well travelled average wikipedian editor. IMO the anti-African sentiments displayed are disgusting, wikipedia is not an encycloepdia solely about the rich, first world, or at least not yet, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

I haven't encountered this, personally. I've written lots of content about both Western and African subjects (more of the latter than the former), and I've only been harassed by deletionists about the former. I've found that writing about Africa is relatively stress-free in that regard (perhaps deletionists are just too myopic to realize that African subjects even exist).

Just as another place to preserve the discussion (in case some Hive drone decides to oversight the courtesy-blanked content), I copied the AfD debate here.

While I respect what Squeaky is saying, I don't think the basis of the argument over Mzoli's Meats was about its being located in Africa. I think the basis was that Jimbo is a knucklehead. He created a pretty awful stub about an establishment that had very limited references available, until the Hive got buzzing on his behalf.

Compare the notability of Mzoli's with that of Norman Technologies. Norman Technologies is the ONLY non-bank representative on an important committee of the International Chamber of Commerce, which is an organization that has been around since 1919. The company has deployed software to numerous Top 20 banks (Barclays, BB&T, PNC Bank, SunTrust, and Wachovia, to name a few) and trains these institutions on use of this software, which is responsible for processing billions of dollars of international transactions, every day.

Mzoli's sells meat, which is then cooked by independent entrepreneurs who congregate around the butchery.

If the personnel and product infrastructure of Norman Technologies magically disappeared today, what would be the impact on the world's population? If the personnel and product infrastructure of Mzoli's magically disappeared today, what would be the impact on the world's population?

Jimbo's article stays, because he is Jimbo. Wikipedia Review's article gets deleted, because I'm Wikipedia Review.

While certainly none of the people arguing back and forth in the Mzoli's AfD were thinking of the debate in exactly these terms, I cannot help but think that I am getting at the heart of the problem that most people had with the article's entry into Wikipedia. It wasn't an anti-Africa sort of thing, at all. If you want a bias on Wikipedia, I would argue it is against typical "white man" enterprises like Norman Technologies and Arch Coal (which in its AfD review was questioned as encyclopedic because it "seemed weak" that it was the second-largest coal-mining operation in the United States).

I grow weary of Jimbo and his wikiblog.

Greg

[Somey]

I don't think a wikipedia nobel is a good idea, doesn't tell anything about the site.

Well, the idea (and I'm really hoping you meant to write "novel," not "nobel") is to suggest a sort of dystopian vision of what world culture might become if Wikipedia, and sites like it, continue to proliferate - and more importantly, dominate.

I prefer to write a dummies book, I offered already.

Offered to whom? There's already a book called Wiki for Dummies, so you'll run into some push-back from the For Dummies Corporation. Still, no reason not to try!

There's also an O'Reilly book coming out in December called "Wikipedia: The Missing Manual," by someone named John Broughton. Since it's an O'Reilly book it will probably be mostly a guide to MediaWiki features, that remains to be seen, I suppose. Either way, I doubt it will be especially critical or even reality-based.

Of course, if Broughton is the same guy who co-wrote "On Your Bike In The Cotswolds," that's probably not a good sign.

Long story short, it looks like someone could still be first out the door with a critical book that concentrates on Wikipedia and its shortcomings, without just taking a how-to approach. Opportunity knocks, folks!

Could you (and everybody else) please stop using the word "Troll", "trolling" etc. This expression is completely meaningless, even on Wikipedia (where it's become such a cliché that it means everything and nothing at once). If you can't figure how to say it without using this word, it's probably all in your mind anyway.

I agree completely. In fact, if it weren't necessary to allow it for WP-quoting purposes, I'd add it to the Banned Words Filter. And it's already in the "Moderation-Required" list on the WR blog, which I've been meaning to post something to...

Doesn't anybody else find this person so completely arriviste as to be impossible to even discuss, much less talk to?

Who, Squeakbox? Hmm, not quite the word I would use, but it's as good as any, I suppose. I'd probably go with something like "erratic," but at least that's a big step up from the words we were using to decribe him a year ago! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smiling.gif)

[Emperor]

While certainly none of the people arguing back and forth in the Mzoli's AfD were thinking of the debate in exactly these terms, I cannot help but think that I am getting at the heart of the problem that most people had with the article's entry into Wikipedia. It wasn't an anti-Africa sort of thing, at all. If you want a bias on Wikipedia, I would argue it is against typical "white man" enterprises like Norman Technologies and Arch Coal (which in its AfD review was questioned as encyclopedic because it "seemed weak" that it was the second-largest coal-mining operation in the United States).

I grow weary of Jimbo and his wikiblog.

Greg

The place is infantile, and you're 100% right. Wikipedians, from their dank little condos in the suburbs, are now attempting to improve world race relations by promoting good old fashioned, black-owned meat markets in Africa. It's just about as condescending as the child in Africa comment.

[thekohser]

Youse guys should look up the etymology of the word privilege in the dictionary.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

Thanks for the advice, Jonny.

...from Latin privilegium, a law affecting one person, or a law for or against a private person.

[thekohser]

Jimbo explains on his Talk page that it was different when he deleted Arch Coal, but created Mzoli's Meats:

But the Arch Coal case involved COI (paid) editing, and so although ownership wasn't involved, there was still an ethical issue. Here, I just quite innocently found the topic interesting and worthy of an article.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 20:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Too bad Jimbo is wrong, once again, having fouled the premise:

Jimmy, you're wrong, once again. Gregory Kohs stated on Wikipedia's own mailing list that "nobody paid for [the Arch Coal article] at any time, since it was just an experiment". You assumed it had been paid content, you deleted it, then you defaced the user's User page -- all in response to an experiment whose purpose was exactly that, to see how vindictive you might be about something you actually didn't know anything about. It's amazing that so few people see how terribly wrong you were in your handling of paid-to-edit content on Wikipedia when it arose in the summer of 2006, especially when an organization tried to do so in the disinfecting sunlight of full disclosure. --[[User:The Iraq|The Iraq]] 17:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The poor sole flounder is just getting pwned, left and right.

Greg

[SqueakBox]

I no longer have access to the account, the only way i can get syropped again is if i create a new account and go to RFA after three or four months, in which no way in hell I'm doing.

Also about the book, I do have heavy writing experience for my age, and not all wikipedia.

Well, if history is any guide, you'll regret doing that. You say it's different this time because Jimbo insulted you (supposedly). Why exactly is that such a big deal? He's insulted me, and I haven't quit. It just seems strange to me that you would make your participation contingent on what Jimbo thinks about you. If Wikipedia is worth doing, it's still worth doing even if its founder is rude to you. The value of participation goes a lot deeper than some personality clash, at least for me.

I disagree, Everyking. Maybe there is something to quitting the project due to what Jimbo thinks. Maybe the various unpaid editors are finally starting to realize how much Jimbo personally profits (in both fame and fortune) from all the content, links, and traffic that the volunteers have worked so hard to construct; that if he can't even be civil to those who are merely trying to keep the encyclopedia encyclopedic, it's just not worth contributing to Jimbo's project any more.

Conversely, maybe if Jimbo left the project, some of these offended editors would be more than happy to return to the original mission -- creating an encyclopedia, not a meat market directory. If Jimbo conceives that a meat market directory is what the world needs, then there's already a place for that.

Greg

Its not an issue of whether a meat restaurant is notable but whether an African article is notable. We all know fully well if it was an American meat market that we would have an article with no debate but anything African appears to be unnotable to the highly inteligent, well travelled average wikipedian editor. IMO the anti-African sentiments displayed are disgusting, wikipedia is not an encycloepdia solely about the rich, first world, or at least not yet, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

I haven't encountered this, personally. I've written lots of content about both Western and African subjects (more of the latter than the former), and I've only been harassed by deletionists about the former. I've found that writing about Africa is relatively stress-free in that regard (perhaps deletionists are just too myopic to realize that African subjects even exist).

Zoe afd'd an article on Honduran football (and an equivalent American sport article would never have been afd'd) but generally my experience is similar to Everyking's in tha deletionists don't target third world articles, leading me to conclude this article was speedied/afd'd because Jimbo wrote it and not for any other reason but the reality is it is an article about a notable place in South Africa and so in their desire to do Jimbo down these folk actually did the countering systemic bias project down. Shame on them! Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

Jimbo explains on his Talk page that it was different when he deleted Arch Coal, but created Mzoli's Meats:

But the Arch Coal case involved COI (paid) editing, and so although ownership wasn't involved, there was still an ethical issue. Here, I just quite innocently found the topic interesting and worthy of an article.--[[User:Jimbo Wales|Jimbo Wales]] 20:30, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

Too bad Jimbo is wrong, once again, having fouled the premise:

Jimmy, you're wrong, once again. Gregory Kohs stated on Wikipedia's own mailing list that "nobody paid for [the Arch Coal article] at any time, since it was just an experiment". You assumed it had been paid content, you deleted it, then you defaced the user's User page -- all in response to an experiment whose purpose was exactly that, to see how vindictive you might be about something you actually didn't know anything about. It's amazing that so few people see how terribly wrong you were in your handling of paid-to-edit content on Wikipedia when it arose in the summer of 2006, especially when an organization tried to do so in the disinfecting sunlight of full disclosure. --[[User:The Iraq|The Iraq]] 17:11, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

The poor sole flounder is just getting pwned, left and right.

Greg

Arch coal is another American article in an already bloated pro-first world encyclopedia. We should have a moratorium on any new first world articles other than on new current events until we get the third world section (which with 80% of the people should have 80% of the articles). Now that would be responsible leadership, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[everyking]

Arch coal is another American article in an already bloated pro-first world encyclopedia. We should have a moratorium on any new first world articles other than on new current events until we get the third world section (which with 80% of the people should have 80% of the articles). Now that would be responsible leadership, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

It doesn't work like that. If you don't allow people to work on what they want, they just won't work on anything at all. Naturally, some areas of content will be good long before other areas are even mediocre. I think it's a very bad idea to try to help one area by hurting another; you end up only hurting the one area without helping the other.

[Jonny Cache]

It doesn't work like that. If you don't allow people to work on what they want, they just won't work on anything at all. Naturally, some areas of content will be good long before other areas are even mediocre. I think it's a very bad idea to try to help one area by hurting another; you end up only hurting the one area without helping the other.

faute de mieux, YTND !!!

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

[SqueakBox]

Arch coal is another American article in an already bloated pro-first world encyclopedia. We should have a moratorium on any new first world articles other than on new current events until we get the third world section (which with 80% of the people should have 80% of the articles). Now that would be responsible leadership, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

It doesn't work like that. If you don't allow people to work on what they want, they just won't work on anything at all. Naturally, some areas of content will be good long before other areas are even mediocre. I think it's a very bad idea to try to help one area by hurting another; you end up only hurting the one area without helping the other.

I was speaking somewhat tongue in cheek. If editors were paid employees it would be easy but because we are all volunmteers it is almost impossible to dictate anything and this does, uinfortunately, make for an unbalanced encyclopedia, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[Jaranda]

Note this will be involved in the mainstream media soon, along with the AFD, was interviewed, not telling much more until it comes out.

[GlassBeadGame]

Note this will be involved in the mainstream media soon, along with the AFD, was interviewed, not telling much more until it comes out.

I look forward to hearing more soon.

[Derktar]

Note this will be involved in the mainstream media soon, along with the AFD, was interviewed, not telling much more until it comes out.

Any idea of when it will be out? I am looking forward to this story.

[SqueakBox]

Note this will be involved in the mainstream media soon, along with the AFD, was interviewed, not telling much more until it comes out.

I look forward to hearing more soon.

Yes me too! I wonder what are the best search terms to use on Google News. Perhaps Mzoli's Jimbo Wales. I am happy to be interviewed too if anyone wants, lol, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[everyking]

Note this will be involved in the mainstream media soon, along with the AFD, was interviewed, not telling much more until it comes out.

What? Jimbo was (supposedly) mean to you, that's a story? Hey, I've got a couple stories about that, who's going to interview me?

[Kato]

Here we go....

From the LA Times

"As the 6-year-old encyclopedia project begins shifting from adding articles to pruning them back, arguments ensue, and it isn't pretty. Just ask its founder -- and victim."

[GlassBeadGame]

Here we go....

From the LA Times

"As the 6-year-old encyclopedia project begins shifting from adding articles to pruning them back, arguments ensue, and it isn't pretty. Just ask its founder -- and victim."

The article is both remarkably detailed and lacking in insight. I guess the former represents some real progress. The next step is to examine the nature of WP's flawed community decision making processes which this article does not do in a serious fashion. Also I wonder if "media scholar Andrew Lih, author of an upcoming book on the history of the project" is vapor or does he have an actual publisher? I see he frequently blogs on WP and I think he posts on wikien-l. Is anyone familiar enough with him to be able to fairly characterize his work?

[everyking]

Here we go....

From the LA Times

"As the 6-year-old encyclopedia project begins shifting from adding articles to pruning them back, arguments ensue, and it isn't pretty. Just ask its founder -- and victim."

It doesn't say a word about Jaranda or Jimbo's supposed insult. It's basically about the general inclusion/deletion issue (and covers it pretty well).

[WhispersOfWisdom]

I certainly hope and pray that everyone is ok with the release of this information!

I think it is a good thing.

I wonder how the L.A. Times got this so fast!!! ??? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

From TDS, Aruba...

LN 9-29-07

[GlassBeadGame]

Here we go....

From the LA Times

"As the 6-year-old encyclopedia project begins shifting from adding articles to pruning them back, arguments ensue, and it isn't pretty. Just ask its founder -- and victim."

It doesn't say a word about Jaranda or Jimbo's supposed insult. It's basically about the general inclusion/deletion issue (and covers it pretty well).

I think that Everyking is right about the nature of the article. This means that the article doesn't even take a hard look at the obvious abuse of the Sole Flounder (IMG:http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/567/soleflounder2tz4.jpg) breaking his own rules, let alone the systematic problems of decision making on WP. The article is only remarkable in its detail. It seems to me the author was intimately familiar with WP and did not require the usual learning curve to gain even a basic understanding. This is in itself something to make note of and retain for future reference.

[Pwok]

I don't think it was a good article at all. It doesn't examine Wikipedia's fundamental flaw, that it subordinates truth to consensus.

[SqueakBox]

I don't think it was a good article at all. It doesn't examine Wikipedia's fundamental flaw, that it subordinates truth to consensus.

Does it? I thought policy trumped consensus and many argue it does. But reading policy is alawyerly skill and shouldn't trump truth either. Those POV psuhers trying to change Myanmar to its old colonial name Burma are trying to use both consensus and policy to deny ther truth with the argument that if most people are ignorant on a subject we should go along with their ignorance rather than trying to educate them, which is what an encyclopedia is for, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[Jaranda]

I was interviewed, i mainly attacked AFDs in the interview though, and wasn't mentioned.

I also gave the info about the deletionism there.

[Firsfron of Ronchester]

I was interviewed, i mainly attacked AFDs in the interview though, and wasn't mentioned.

I also gave the info about the deletionism there.

Did you mention the "new hobby" remark, Jaranda?

[SqueakBox]

I was interviewed, i mainly attacked AFDs in the interview though, and wasn't mentioned.

I also gave the info about the deletionism there.

Did you mention the "new hobby" remark, Jaranda?

He has been blocked by himself and then de-sysoped so it is a done deal. I dropped a line to Jimbo mentioning WR though obviously not linking tot he thread re BADSITES. Sigh! Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

I was interviewed, i mainly attacked AFDs in the interview though, and wasn't mentioned.

I also gave the info about the deletionism there.

Were you the one who said the old guard is less deletionist. i think that is completely wrong, the ol;d guard are more deletionist, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[guy]

I thought policy trumped consensus and many argue it does.

But policy is meant to be determined by consensus (except very few people get involved in policy pages) except for Jimbo's pillars which are non-negotiable.

[WhispersOfWisdom]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Iso..._Nysted_camp.21

I gave isotope23 the link to the discussion on WR and he did not keep it. I do not know anything about the politics here, or at WP but it would appear that WR is not a site he wants to be associated with. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[Jaranda]

"Were you the one who said the old guard is less deletionist. i think that is completely wrong, the old guard are more deletionist",

I never understood that comment clearly, I said that deletionism is dying, and any article that has any kind of silly source is being kept. I guess that's a yes.

[SqueakBox]

I thought policy trumped consensus and many argue it does.

But policy is meant to be determined by consensus (except very few people get involved in policy pages) except for Jimbo's pillars which are non-negotiable.

Yep, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

"Were you the one who said the old guard is less deletionist. i think that is completely wrong, the old guard are more deletionist",

I never understood that comment clearly, I said that deletionism is dying, and any article that has any kind of silly source is being kept. I guess that's a yes.

Well you may be right but if it is dying then wikipedia is going from bad to worse. We need to delete the bloated American and first world excesses and not a genuinely notable article like Mzoli's, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

I thought policy trumped consensus and many argue it does.

But policy is meant to be determined by consensus (except very few people get involved in policy pages) except for Jimbo's pillars which are non-negotiable.

Yep, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

"Were you the one who said the old guard is less deletionist. i think that is completely wrong, the old guard are more deletionist",

I never understood that comment clearly, I said that deletionism is dying, and any article that has any kind of silly source is being kept. I guess that's a yes.

Well you may be right but if it is dying then wikipedia is going from bad to worse. We need to delete the bloated American and first world excesses and not a genuinely notable article like Mzoli's, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

Wer also need to delete trolling articles like Don Murphy, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[the fieryangel]

They might have blanked the AfD page, but not before the LA times .... and Der Speigel covered the story....

There's a discussion on Jimbo's talk page....He doesn't seem too happy about all of the "free publicity"...

This post has been edited by the fieryangel:

[SqueakBox]

They might have blanked the AfD page, but not before the LA times .... and Der Speigel covered the story....

There's a discussion on Jimbo's talk page....He doesn't seem too happy about all of the "free publicity"...

Well what do you expect. He is a human being, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[the fieryangel]

They might have blanked the AfD page, but not before the LA times .... and Der Speigel covered the story....

There's a discussion on Jimbo's talk page....He doesn't seem too happy about all of the "free publicity"...

Well what do you expect. He is a human being, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

Yes, but he's pushing himself as a public figure, so he has to expect these things. If you're a CPA and people start taking your picture when you go out of the Coffee Shop on Main Street after lunch, you have a right to complain about these things.

Jimbo needs to learn that this is part of the job and consider the consequences before he does anything.

[WhispersOfWisdom]

I believe everything happens for a reason and Jimmy Wales is smart enough to know that everything he does (action) will be followed by a reaction. I think the press covered the Mzoli's article and AFD quite well. I suspect this issue is not over, and that is a good thing.

I think it is wrong for editors/administrators to spend all their time trying to find articles and people to delete. Growth and creativity requires positive thinking; positive actions. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[thekohser]

Jimbo needs to ... consider the consequences before he does anything.

Not a part of Jimbo's skill set.

Greg

[Firsfron of Ronchester]

I believe everything happens for a reason and Jimmy Wales is smart enough to know that everything he does (action) will be followed by a reaction. I think the press covered the Mzoli's article and AFD quite well. I suspect this issue is not over, and that is a good thing.

I think it is wrong for editors/administrators to spend all their time trying to find articles and people to delete. Growth and creativity requires positive thinking; positive actions. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Good post, Whispers. I'm not sure how many administrators actively seek out content to delete, but I know there are many editors who will tag almost anything for deletion. It's gotten to the point where a hundred articles are mass-nominated for deletion at the same time, and the community doesn't even blink anymore. When mass nominations become that commonplace, it's troubling. JMO, as always.

[Jonny Cache]

I believe everything happens for a reason and Jimmy Wales is smart enough to know that everything he does (action) will be followed by a reaction. I think the press covered the Mzoli's article and AFD quite well. I suspect this issue is not over, and that is a good thing.

I think it is wrong for editors/administrators to spend all their time trying to find articles and people to delete. Growth and creativity requires positive thinking; positive actions. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

But Wikipedia is not about creativity — what it knows about growth is just as happy with a malignant tumor or a viral pandemic as it is with anything else.

But anything else is harder, far harder to achieve, so why the hell bother with that !?

Wikipedia is an Online Game — knocking the other players' pieces off the board and eliminating your opponents from further play is simply built into the design of the game, as you can tell from the play of those who play it with a vengeance.

Jonny (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/cool.gif)

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache:

[guy]

Wikipedia is not about creativity

Indeed, creativity is specifically forbidden by WP:NOR.

[SqueakBox]

They might have blanked the AfD page, but not before the LA times .... and Der Speigel covered the story....

There's a discussion on Jimbo's talk page....He doesn't seem too happy about all of the "free publicity"...

Well what do you expect. He is a human being, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

Yes, but he's pushing himself as a public figure, so he has to expect these things. If you're a CPA and people start taking your picture when you go out of the Coffee Shop on Main Street after lunch, you have a right to complain about these things.

Jimbo needs to learn that this is part of the job and consider the consequences before he does anything.

I certainly agree with that. I personally think in terms of setting an example he couldn't have chosen a better example of article creation than Mzoli's but he is going to be criticised whatever he does, that is the nature of power, Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ph34r.gif) Box

[GlassBeadGame]

I believe everything happens for a reason and Jimmy Wales is smart enough to know that everything he does (action) will be followed by a reaction. I think the press covered the Mzoli's article and AFD quite well. I suspect this issue is not over, and that is a good thing.

I think it is wrong for editors/administrators to spend all their time trying to find articles and people to delete. Growth and creativity requires positive thinking; positive actions. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Your reading too much into it. Mr. Wales is not really very smart. He just did some minor arbitrary act with the article. He probably visited and enjoyed himself. Not a basis for an article. These type of posts remind of the "The Czar is wise. If the czar only knew..." type of pre-Bolshevik peasant thinking.

Mind you I'm not taking sides on the Deletionist/Inclusionist thing. That would be like an outsider taking sides in a family argument about the merits of incest possibilities.

[WhispersOfWisdom]

I believe everything happens for a reason and Jimmy Wales is smart enough to know that everything he does (action) will be followed by a reaction. I think the press covered the Mzoli's article and AFD quite well. I suspect this issue is not over, and that is a good thing.

I think it is wrong for editors/administrators to spend all their time trying to find articles and people to delete. Growth and creativity requires positive thinking; positive actions. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

Good post, Whispers. I'm not sure how many administrators actively seek out content to delete, but I know there are many editors who will tag almost anything for deletion. It's gotten to the point where a hundred articles are mass-nominated for deletion at the same time, and the community doesn't even blink anymore. When mass nominations become that commonplace, it's troubling. JMO, as always.

Thank you,

Anything " en mass" too closely resembles how many governments work. It is almost a guarantee that the "pork" and deceptive practices will be included in such efforts and the ensuing corruption prevails. I had never seen examples of mass destruction at WP, or attempts at same, but it is not pretty.

[thekohser]

Jimbo's beloved Mzoli's article was translated into German and dumped onto the German Wikipedia. It was felt they needed more butchery, it would seem. Even in the hindsight of seeing the "best" version of the article, they're rallying around a Delete decision.

Note, "löschen" means "delete", and "behalten" means "keep".

All drama, all the time.

Greg

P.S. Even our own Squeaky put in his "behalten" vote, considering his extensive history of contributing to the German Wikipedia.

This post has been edited by thekohser:

[WhispersOfWisdom]

I spreche eine bischen, aber, Ich bin nicht da gespielen, nicht vahr? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Keep it up Squeakbox!

[The Joy]

I spreche eine bischen, aber, Ich bin nicht da gespielen, nicht vahr? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Keep it up Squeakbox!

That's some good Klingon there, WhispersOfWisdom! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

[SqueakBox]

I spreche eine bischen, aber, Ich bin nicht da gespielen, nicht vahr? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Keep it up Squeakbox!

Huh? Yo no hablo aleman but why should that stop me. I also wrote the Spanish version and even though the Spanish ios one of the msot deletionist wikipedia's around so far nobody has done other than to add a few categories. Squeak (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) Box

[Jaranda]

Seems like consensus is heading for delete in the german wiki, not surpriced, they are extreme deletionists anyways.

[thekohser]

Jimbo's beloved Mzoli's article was translated into German and dumped onto the German Wikipedia. It was felt they needed more butchery, it would seem. Even in the hindsight of seeing the "best" version of the article, they're rallying around a Delete decision.

Note, "löschen" means "delete", and "behalten" means "keep".

All drama, all the time.

Greg

P.S. Even our own Squeaky put in his "behalten" vote, considering his extensive history of contributing to the German Wikipedia.

Looks like after a wrap-up, the krauts blitzkrieged Jimbo's beloved Mzoli's article. So, it's notable enough for the English wiki (where Jimbo holds "special powers") but not notable enough for the German wiki (where Jimbo is not nearly so powerful, thanks to the wonderful barrier of language).

You know Jimbo's miffed about this, right?

Greg

[WhispersOfWisdom]

Jimbo's beloved Mzoli's article was translated into German and dumped onto the German Wikipedia. It was felt they needed more butchery, it would seem. Even in the hindsight of seeing the "best" version of the article, they're rallying around a Delete decision.

Note, "löschen" means "delete", and "behalten" means "keep".

All drama, all the time.

Greg

P.S. Even our own Squeaky put in his "behalten" vote, considering his extensive history of contributing to the German Wikipedia.

Looks like after a wrap-up, the krauts blitzkrieged Jimbo's beloved Mzoli's article. So, it's notable enough for the English wiki (where Jimbo holds "special powers") but not notable enough for the German wiki (where Jimbo is not nearly so powerful, thanks to the wonderful barrier of language).

You know Jimbo's miffed about this, right?

Greg

Yes; I am too. The article, and the place, has a spot in history. It serves a purpose and it is clearly

notable, now.

I believe Wikipedia should be a recorder of all human knowledge and history. Why not?

What harm would Mzoli's have done to the "folks" of Deutshland?

We know WP is not a reliable encyclopedia, nicht vahr? So why not make it a source of

information about persons, places, and things? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

I predict it will be reviewed and saved.

[thekohser]

What harm would Mzoli's have done to the "folks" of Deutshland?

We know WP is not a reliable encyclopedia, nicht vahr? So why not make it a source of

information about persons, places, and things? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

I predict it will be reviewed and saved.

I hear you, Lee. The thing is, if only Jimbo had acted with some care, with even one-quarter of the skill-set that 90% of his admins have, there wouldn't have been this controversy surrounding the article in the first place.

As for predictions, I predict that you underestimate the fortitude of the Germans. They're never going to budge on Mzoli's, unless a world leader is assassinated there or something.

[WhispersOfWisdom]

What harm would Mzoli's have done to the "folks" of Deutshland?

We know WP is not a reliable encyclopedia, nicht vahr? So why not make it a source of

information about persons, places, and things? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/rolleyes.gif)

I predict it will be reviewed and saved.

I hear you, Lee. The thing is, if only Jimbo had acted with some care, with even one-quarter of the skill-set that 90% of his admins have, there wouldn't have been this controversy surrounding the article in the first place.

As for predictions, I predict that you underestimate the fortitude of the Germans. They're never going to budge on Mzoli's, unless a world leader is assassinated there or something.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gugulethu


^ I predict that there is more to the story, in Germany, than is being served up
in the "afd" we were looking at. Mzoli's is Mzolis's. Maybe they spell it differently in Germany? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

This post has been edited by WhispersOfWisdom:

[Firsfron of Ronchester]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gugulethu


^ I predict that there is more to the story, in Germany, than is being served up
in the "afd" we were looking at. Mzoli's is Mzolis's. Maybe they spell it differently in Germany? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

Amazing. The article is deleted, but a link to the Mzoli's (Mzolis's?) blog is retained on another page.

[WhispersOfWisdom]

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gugulethu


^ I predict that there is more to the story, in Germany, than is being served up
in the "afd" we were looking at. Mzoli's is Mzoli's. Maybe they spell it differently in Germany? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif) (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/unsure.gif)

Amazing. The article is deleted, but a link to the Mzoli's (Mzolis's?) blog is retained on another page.

On WP:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mzoli%27s

By the way, in Germany, that is not a blog, it is an article.

This post has been edited by WhispersOfWisdom:

[AB]

I AFD'd it. Trolling? Not hardly.

^demon! : ) *hug*