The Wikipedia Review: A forum for discussion and criticism of Wikipedia
Wikipedia Review Op-Ed Pages

Welcome, Guest! ( Log In | Register )

6 Pages V < 1 2 3 4 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> SirFozzie: Teetering on the edge...
emesee
post Tue 10th March 2009, 6:40am
Post #21


ban me
*****

Group: Tanked
Posts: 764
Joined: Sat 11th Oct 2008, 8:41pm
From: aww
Member No.: 8,586



they don't deserve for you to share your thoughts with them via edits. not until the wikipedia disease can be cured. sick.gif

but on the other hand...
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Caknuck
post Tue 10th March 2009, 7:03am
Post #22


Neophyte


Group: Contributors
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu 7th Feb 2008, 6:17pm
Member No.: 4,750

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



So, in the matter of three days, Barneca, Alison, SirFozzie and Kevin all retired. I feel like the cool kids just left the food court and I still have a two-thirds full Orange Julius and a snot-nosed kid brother to watch over.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
EricBarbour
post Tue 10th March 2009, 8:43am
Post #23


blah
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,919
Joined: Mon 25th Feb 2008, 2:31am
Member No.: 5,066

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Caknuck @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:03am) *
So, in the matter of three days, Barneca, Alison, SirFozzie and Kevin all retired. I feel like the cool kids just left the food court and I still have a two-thirds full Orange Julius and a snot-nosed kid brother to watch over.

Well.....either you're a masochist with a taste for kid-brother mucus happy.gif ,
or you think the project can be "saved".

Seriously, it's so big and screwed up, the only way to "save" it is to let it collapse,
and pick up the pieces later. (Hopefully, after Jimbo, Gerard and their little
buddies are out of the picture.)
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
gadfly
post Tue 10th March 2009, 10:02am
Post #24


New Member
*

Group: Contributors
Posts: 49
Joined: Mon 9th Feb 2009, 10:56am
Member No.: 10,218



Interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Dds...s_administrator
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Peter Damian
post Tue 10th March 2009, 11:12am
Post #25


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,400
Joined: Tue 18th Dec 2007, 9:25pm
Member No.: 4,212

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(gadfly @ Tue 10th March 2009, 10:02am) *


QUOTE

Fourth, although the notion of wikipedia still seems good, its actual state now seems to me to be almost fatally flawed because of its large, unwieldy structure that makes real effective change impossible. This is largely because there appears to be no one at a high enough level who is willing to make the tough decisions necessary to improve it, perhaps because of a too-sentimental clinging on to principles that are now counter-productive. So, we have the curse of nationalism that causes endless disputes that should simply be stamped on (see the whole swathe of problems brought by problems to do with Ireland-related issues as one example), small highly vocal pressure groups that cause disruption (like the ongoing Arbcom case to do with Ayn Rand), and a failure to take a principled stand in matters of Fringe Science and other areas when advocates of fringe views use arguments that one might call "argumentuum ad attrition" (to mangle poor Latin) to wear the opposition down.


Quite. The Ayn Rand was what did for me also (I have given up for Lent but perhaps we can make it permanent).
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
privatemusings
post Tue 10th March 2009, 12:18pm
Post #26


Member
***

Group: Contributors
Posts: 214
Joined: Sat 29th Dec 2007, 4:51pm
Member No.: 4,306

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



I'm not going to miss this one... it took me 4 years to grow a mullet, and by that time the cool kids had shaved heads. I too have resigned my admin bit - uniquely without actually acquiring it in the first place - that's how much I don't want it any more ;-)

I'm kinda surprised at all this though, to be honest - haven't the fundamental criticisms been present for ages now? Is this a cost / benefit type decision for some, a la John A - and if so, what was the catalyst for the realisation ('cos it doesn't seem much changed?)

Is this an 'insiders only' crisis, of the existential angst variety, (prolly, I reckon) or does this represent an actual shift in some dynamic or other....? interesting stuff......
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jon Awbrey
post Tue 10th March 2009, 12:31pm
Post #27


τὰ δέ μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,783
Joined: Sun 6th Apr 2008, 4:52am
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(privatemusings @ Tue 10th March 2009, 8:18am) *

I'm not going to miss this one … it took me 4 years to grow a mullet, and by that time the cool kids had shaved heads. I too have resigned my admin bit — uniquely without actually acquiring it in the first place — that's how much I don't want it any more ;-)

I'm kinda surprised at all this though, to be honest — haven't the fundamental criticisms been present for ages now? Is this a cost / benefit type decision for some, a la John A — and if so, what was the catalyst for the realisation ('cos it doesn't seem much changed?)

Is this an 'insiders only' crisis, of the existential angst variety, (prolly, I reckon) or does this represent an actual shift in some dynamic or other…? interesting stuff……


The Customary Nine Days Have Expired …

Ja Ja boing.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
A Horse With No Name
post Tue 10th March 2009, 1:43pm
Post #28


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,471
Joined: Mon 26th Jan 2009, 1:54pm
Member No.: 9,985



QUOTE(Caknuck @ Tue 10th March 2009, 3:03am) *

So, in the matter of three days, Barneca, Alison, SirFozzie and Kevin all retired. I feel like the cool kids just left the food court and I still have a two-thirds full Orange Julius and a snot-nosed kid brother to watch over.


Plus Ddstretch's sign-off -- I assume he was watching "Pride of the Yankees" before writing that sign-off.

Alison's departure is a major shame, because she brought class and dignity to the proceedings. But as for the departure of those other admins -- big f**king deal. I think their increasingly ridiculous farewells to adminship cruelly displays how they have completely lost track of reality in regard to where a volunteer hobby site like Wikipedia should fit into their lives. My message to SirFozzie, Barneca, Kevin and Ddstretch: come on, you slobs, grow up and get a life.

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name: Tue 10th March 2009, 1:44pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
LaraLove
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:02pm
Post #29


Wikipedia BLP advocate
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,741
Joined: Mon 28th Jan 2008, 7:53pm
Member No.: 4,627



Shut the fuck up, Horse. For those of us spending time here because we want to see change come to Wikipedia... some responsible improvement, this is great. Admins dropping out for reasons like DDstretch pointed out in his fourth paragraph is exactly what is needed to eventually bring a wake-up call to the deaf and dumb masses of Wikipedia.

QUOTE(Kevin @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:33am) *

I have made a statement of sorts, so that others will know my reasons. I can't see it having any impact whatsoever though, unless the resignations ramp up significantly.
It's already begun.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
A Horse With No Name
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:40pm
Post #30


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,471
Joined: Mon 26th Jan 2009, 1:54pm
Member No.: 9,985



QUOTE(LaraLove @ Tue 10th March 2009, 10:02am) *

Shut the fuck up, Horse. For those of us spending time here because we want to see change come to Wikipedia... some responsible improvement, this is great. Admins dropping out for reasons like DDstretch pointed out in his fourth paragraph is exactly what is needed to eventually bring a wake-up call to the deaf and dumb masses of Wikipedia.



Of course it is great -- insecure and (let's not kid ourselves) incompetent admins do Wikipedia no great service, and the bye-bye texts that are piling up show these people (1) are not qualified to hold a position of responsibility, (2) have no clue how to deal with a variety of personalities in benign circumstances, and (3) are a bunch of drama queens. Each one of these ridiculous farewells statements is funnier than the next -- and I think Ddstretch deserves a barnstar for crafting one of the very worst resignations letter in the history of English-language correspondence.

These slobs have completely forgotten that adminship is No Big Deal. And their departure, quite frankly, is no big deal -- their storming off won't disrupt operations, nor will it speed change. Wikipedia, not unlike any bloated bureaucracy, will wobble along as if nothing happened. Remember what Charles DeGaulle said: the graveyards of the world are filled with indispensable men.


User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jon Awbrey
post Tue 10th March 2009, 2:44pm
Post #31


τὰ δέ μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,783
Joined: Sun 6th Apr 2008, 4:52am
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 10th March 2009, 10:40am) *

Remember what Charles DeGaulle said : the graveyards of the world are filled with indispensable men.


But that's just men …

Ja Ja boing.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
LaraLove
post Tue 10th March 2009, 3:27pm
Post #32


Wikipedia BLP advocate
******

Group: Regulars
Posts: 1,741
Joined: Mon 28th Jan 2008, 7:53pm
Member No.: 4,627



QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 10th March 2009, 10:40am) *

[ sick.gif ]

The more admins that drop, the more shit that will pile up. The more admins that put messages stating these same reasons for their departure, the greater the chance that it can be used as an example of why change needs to come. The more admins that drop for the same reasons, the more likely the press will pick it up.

And the "adminship is no big deal" is a crock of shit, and anyone who believes it is a moron. For what Wikipedia is and how it operates, adminship is a damn big deal. It's an umbrella on a perpetually rainy day; and if you try to take that umbrella away, they just beat you with it.

It may be no big deal when considering it's a volunteer job on a website, but as far as the website is concerned, it needs those volunteers. As the numbers continue to dwindle, with the more veteran admins dropping out, it's putting more pressure on the already spread thin core of admins, more and more of whom are children. People are dropping out now in disgust and frustration. Some of them after feeling overwhelmed. It doesn't get better from there without change. It only gets worse. With fewer principled people fighting the good fight, the dipshits win. The frustration grows, and with more shit to deal with, it's more overwhelming.

This is all completely obvious.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Milton Roe
post Tue 10th March 2009, 3:35pm
Post #33


Known alias of J. Random Troll
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 10,209
Joined: Thu 28th Feb 2008, 1:03am
Member No.: 5,156

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(LaraLove @ Tue 10th March 2009, 8:27am) *

And the "adminship is no big deal" is a crock of shit, and anyone who believes it is a moron. For what Wikipedia is and how it operates, adminship is a damn big deal. It's an umbrella on a perpetually rainy day; and if you try to take that umbrella away, they just beat you with it.

Ironically, given the drama of an RfA, it's somewhat easier to become an admin these days if you've kept strictly out of politics and have no new and subversive ideas for making the site better. Thus, more and more it selects for robots. This is not necessarily good.
QUOTE(LaraLove)

It may be no big deal when considering it's a volunteer job on a website, but as far as the website is concerned, it needs those volunteers. As the numbers continue to dwindle, with the more veteran admins dropping out, it's putting more pressure on the already spread thin core of admins, more and more of whom are children.


That is the way of the world. As the officers are killed off, eventually you get to the point that the only people clueless enough to go into the meatgrinder, are teenagers. The origin of the word "infantry" is exactly what you might think from first looking at it: it doesn't mean children in diapers as in English, but it does refer to children with weapons.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Bottled_Spider
post Tue 10th March 2009, 3:40pm
Post #34


Über Member
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 533
Joined: Sun 11th Jan 2009, 8:27pm
From: Pictland
Member No.: 9,708



QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 10th March 2009, 2:40pm) *
-- and I think Ddstretch deserves a barnstar for crafting one of the very worst resignations letter in the history of English-language correspondence.

You actually managed to read it all without going into a coma? Respect!
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
A Horse With No Name
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:03pm
Post #35


I have as much free time as a Wikipedia admin!
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 4,471
Joined: Mon 26th Jan 2009, 1:54pm
Member No.: 9,985



QUOTE(LaraLove @ Tue 10th March 2009, 11:27am) *

QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Tue 10th March 2009, 10:40am) *

[ sick.gif ]

The more admins that drop, the more shit that will pile up. The more admins that put messages stating these same reasons for their departure, the greater the chance that it can be used as an example of why change needs to come. The more admins that drop for the same reasons, the more likely the press will pick it up.

And the "adminship is no big deal" is a crock of shit, and anyone who believes it is a moron. For what Wikipedia is and how it operates, adminship is a damn big deal. It's an umbrella on a perpetually rainy day; and if you try to take that umbrella away, they just beat you with it.

It may be no big deal when considering it's a volunteer job on a website, but as far as the website is concerned, it needs those volunteers. As the numbers continue to dwindle, with the more veteran admins dropping out, it's putting more pressure on the already spread thin core of admins, more and more of whom are children. People are dropping out now in disgust and frustration. Some of them after feeling overwhelmed. It doesn't get better from there without change. It only gets worse. With fewer principled people fighting the good fight, the dipshits win. The frustration grows, and with more shit to deal with, it's more overwhelming.

This is all completely obvious.


Where do we start?

1. Lara, you are a hot chili mama, so I cannot possibly get angry with you.

2. I am sorry to see qualified admins leave. Alison’s departure was a major loss – so was yours, for that matter. These other guys – SirFozzie, Kevin, Barneca, Ddstretch – were a complete waste of space who brought nothing of value to Wikipedia. Their departure is reason for champagne, not bitter tea.

3. The press is NOT going to pick up any stories about insecure, inept and inane ex-admins who cannot cut the mustard on a volunteer web site.

4. What the web site needs who are people organized and detail oriented and who have training in dealing with editorial content, publishing protocol and human resources. Some fat slob who answers phones in a storage company is not the right person for that assignment. And some hyperactive teenager who obsesses over video games isn’t right, either. Face it, 99% of the admins lack the professional training and emotional stability to handle administrative work. Maybe Jimbo needs to do what IMDb does – hire professional editors/managers to run the site and to allow registered users to simply submit information and discuss content in forums. Really, look who is leading at RfA now -- Chris Cunningham, some Scottish asshole who admits to editing while drunk. Jimbo has money -- let him hire people (even part-time) who can do the job correctly.

5. Adminship is no big deal because Wikipedia is no big deal. It is a web site full of badly written articles – it is not a medical center. I have yet to meet anyone who doesn’t break out into laughter when I say the word “Wikipedia.” My experience is not unique, either.

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name: Tue 10th March 2009, 4:04pm
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jon Awbrey
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:26pm
Post #36


τὰ δέ μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,783
Joined: Sun 6th Apr 2008, 4:52am
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Still Clueless After All These Years (WP:SCAATY) —

A well designed con game — and Wikipedia is a very well designed con game — is designed to move any marks who begin to cache on off the board.

Ja Ja boing.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Newyorkbrad
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:26pm
Post #37


Über Member
*****

Group: Regulars
Posts: 641
Joined: Fri 29th Feb 2008, 9:21pm
Member No.: 5,193

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Kevin @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:33am) *

QUOTE(LaraLove @ Tue 10th March 2009, 1:18pm) *

QUOTE(Kevin @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:14am) *

I think any statement an individual could make is destined to be lost in the noise.
I think a good statement to serve as a record as to why you resigned and/or retired is a positive. The more admins that drop for the same reasons, the more likely some change will eventually be pushed through. Sending a message is important, in my opinion.


I have made a statement of sorts, so that others will know my reasons. I can't see it having any impact whatsoever though, unless the resignations ramp up significantly.

Kevin

Although there has always been a high degree of turnover among all levels of Wikipedia participants, including the various types of functionaries, I can assure you that the recent raft of resignations, retirements, or semi-inactivities has been noted and is the subject of concern. Real life issues come first, of course, and so does the principle that one only gives volunteer time where one is having some fun and feels one is doing some good, but please don't feel that your departure hasn't been noticed and that your previous work hasn't been appreciated. That goes for several of you.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Jon Awbrey
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:29pm
Post #38


τὰ δέ μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
*********

Group: Moderators
Posts: 6,783
Joined: Sun 6th Apr 2008, 4:52am
From: Meat Puppet Nation
Member No.: 5,619

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



QUOTE(Newyorkbrad @ Tue 10th March 2009, 12:26pm) *

Although there has always been a high degree of turnover among all levels of Wikipedia participants, including the various types of functionaries, I can assure you that the recent raft of resignations, retirements, or semi-inactivities has been noted and is the subject of concern. Real life issues come first, of course, and so does the principle that one only gives volunteer time where one is having some fun and feels one is doing some good, but please don't feel that your departure hasn't been noticed and that your previous work hasn't been appreciated. That goes for several of you.


An Unseen Hand gave Brad the Jimbo sign:
No More Barnstar — Gold Watch Next Time.

Take It Away, Mousetro !!!

Ja Ja boing.gif
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
One
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:45pm
Post #39


Postmaster General
********

Group: Contributors
Posts: 2,553
Joined: Tue 25th Dec 2007, 10:49am
Member No.: 4,284

WP user page - talk
check - contribs



Why not start a wikiproject about this? That is, make a list where users will pledge to walk out on some date if tangible steps toward improvement haven't been taken? I would make such a pledge.

What's a reasonable and appropriate date? I suggest the Seigenthaler anniversary: May 26. The four year anniversary of that former public servant being libeled by an IP address. If nothing happens before then, I quit.
User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post
Kato
post Tue 10th March 2009, 4:48pm
Post #40


dhd
*********

Group: Regulars
Posts: 5,521
Joined: Fri 29th Dec 2006, 8:39pm
Member No.: 767



QUOTE(One @ Tue 10th March 2009, 4:45pm) *

Why not start a wikiproject about this? That is, make a list where users will pledge to walk out on some date if tangible steps toward improvement haven't been taken? I would make such a pledge.

What's a reasonable and appropriate date? I suggest the Seigenthaler anniversary: May 26. The four year anniversary of that former public servant being libeled by an IP address. If nothing happens before then, I quit.

Or better still:

QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Tue 10th March 2009, 2:50am) *

Image


So spread the word. ohmy.gif ohmy.gif ohmy.gif Wednesday is the official day when WP editors don't fix any problem that would long ago have been fixed, if the community didn't have so much free slave labor as to not worry their heads about labor-saving fixes to policy. Let's let the people who still believe in the policy, do the work themselves on that day-of-rest. confused.gif

User is offlineProfile CardPM
Go to the top of the page
+Quote Post

6 Pages V < 1 2 3 4 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 

-   Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 23rd 10 17, 11:34am