From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 02:05:35 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 21:05:35 -0500
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
Message-ID: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>

Those who have been following the saga of Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
probably should take a look at the current thread on AN, and/or the
discussion on Wikipedia Review, if you are not current with
developments......

Newyorkbrad
----------
From paulaugust.wp at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 04:19:11 2008
From: paulaugust.wp at gmail.com (Paul August)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 00:19:11 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>

That would be ANI.

pa

On Sep 5, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) wrote:

> Those who have been following the saga of Poetlister, Taxwoman, et
> al. probably should take a look at the current thread on AN, and/or
> the discussion on Wikipedia Review, if you are not current with
> developments......
>
> Newyorkbrad
----------
From user.jpgordon at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 06:14:52 2008
From: user.jpgordon at gmail.com (Josh Gordon)
Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2008 23:14:52 -0700
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>

Fascinating.

On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Paul August <paulaugust.wp at gmail.com> wrote:

> That would be ANI.
>
> pa
>
> On Sep 5, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) wrote:
>
> > Those who have been following the saga of Poetlister, Taxwoman, et
> > al. probably should take a look at the current thread on AN, and/or
> > the discussion on Wikipedia Review, if you are not current with
> > developments......
> >
> > Newyorkbrad
----------
From jdforrester at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 07:23:23 2008
From: jdforrester at gmail.com (James Forrester)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 08:23:23 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <4c0103810809060023v362e1cak581a048fe487283c@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/6 Paul August <paulaugust.wp at gmail.com>:
> On Sep 5, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) wrote:
>
> > Those who have been following the saga of Poetlister, Taxwoman, et
> > al. probably should take a look at the current thread on AN, and/or
> > the discussion on Wikipedia Review, if you are not current with
> > developments......
>
> That would be ANI.

Eurgh. The best possible way for this to be raised, of course.

Yours,
--
James D. Forrester
jdforrester at wikimedia.org | jdforrester at gmail.com
[[Wikipedia:User:Jdforrester|James F.]]
----------
From mackensen at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 12:04:32 2008
From: mackensen at gmail.com (Charles Fulton)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 08:04:32 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>

If memory serves we pressured Wikiquote to ban the lot, to no avail...

On Sat, Sep 6, 2008 at 2:14 AM, Josh Gordon <user.jpgordon at gmail.com> wrote:
> Fascinating.
>
> On Fri, Sep 5, 2008 at 9:19 PM, Paul August <paulaugust.wp at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> That would be ANI.
>>
>> pa
>>
>> On Sep 5, 2008, at 10:05 PM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia) wrote:
>>
>> > Those who have been following the saga of Poetlister, Taxwoman, et
>> > al. probably should take a look at the current thread on AN, and/or
>> > the discussion on Wikipedia Review, if you are not current with
>> > developments......
>> >
>> > Newyorkbrad
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Sat Sep 6 12:53:26 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Sat, 6 Sep 2008 13:53:26 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/6 Charles Fulton <mackensen at gmail.com>:

> If memory serves we pressured Wikiquote to ban the lot, to no avail...


Yes, because all the socks supported strong project independence, so
Cato ended up on checkuser-l.

It'll take a falling anvil from the Foundation.


- d.
----------
From jwales at wikia-inc.com Sun Sep 7 17:33:23 2008
From: jwales at wikia-inc.com (Jimmy Wales)
Date: Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:33:23 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com> <4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com> <99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com> <e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>

Is there a discussion now on Wikiquote? Aphaia is over there and seems
supportive of FT2's investigation, I am sure there are other good users
who we can influence.

And our words of wisdom might be persuasive as well.

David Gerard wrote:
> 2008/9/6 Charles Fulton <mackensen at gmail.com>:
>
>> If memory serves we pressured Wikiquote to ban the lot, to no avail...
>
>
> Yes, because all the socks supported strong project independence, so
> Cato ended up on checkuser-l.
>
> It'll take a falling anvil from the Foundation.
>
>
> - d.
>
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 18:13:46 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:13:46 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 6:33 PM, Jimmy Wales <jwales at wikia-inc.com> wrote:

> Is there a discussion now on Wikiquote? Aphaia is over there and seems
> supportive of FT2's investigation, I am sure there are other good users
> who we can influence.
>
> And our words of wisdom might be persuasive as well.
>
> Sadly cat's out of the bag. I have done all that can be done, many users
agreed with me, I took chances on credibility and capital to contact several
WR regulars who seem honest enough... to ask simply, don't destroy the guys
life for this, whatever he's done its just a website.
Proabivouac outed him.
In fairness, maybe it would have happened anyway. they had traced the
picutures to real people, some of whom had email, to ask "are these you"...
and "boom".... and one person contacted "his employer and authorities".
Proabivouac phoned him for comment yesterday - nocomment.
The pics are all associated with a transvestite network as well, with the
claim that he was associated with it.
He has a wife, works for the UK civil service, has kids in the 12/13 years
old range, and so to speak fraudulently edited wikipedia. And he's in charge
of sensitive UK govt economic and statistical research.
A top UK tabloid is said to have been approached, and declined the story
only because of lack of a pic of the female victim.
We have done all we can, Jimmy, Cary and Jay have all the information they
need to discuss handling if needed (email and on meta), and we have a very
good case if asked that we (volunteers and office) did damn well in
handling, which needs heavily putting in line #1 if ever needed.
No more to say. I feel sick for the guy and all his family. His kid's Bar
Mitzvah is this weekend, and his faith and membership in the Jewish
community (remember all those "list of X jews" he POV pushed on?) means
everything to him.
We here on this list probably need to carry on (heavy heart, somber) our
work for enwiki, I think. I have still some evidence to sum up for review.
Paul.
-----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 18:51:23 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:51:23 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>

[cc to Jimbo, Cary and Jay]


2008/9/7 FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com>:

> Proabivouac outed him.
> In fairness, maybe it would have happened anyway. they had traced the
> picutures to real people, some of whom had email, to ask "are these you"...
> and "boom".... and one person contacted "his employer and authorities".
> Proabivouac phoned him for comment yesterday - nocomment.
> The pics are all associated with a transvestite network as well, with the
> claim that he was associated with it.
> He has a wife, works for the UK civil service, has kids in the 12/13 years
> old range, and so to speak fraudulently edited wikipedia. And he's in charge
> of sensitive UK govt economic and statistical research.


Holy crap!

This would of course be the disastrous collapse of his life we were
trying very hard *not* to have happen.

Unfortunately, in messing with Wikipedia, he could reasonably assume
we weren't going to behave sociopathically. When he started messing WR
around, he was messing around dedicated stalking sociopaths. Bah.


> A top UK tabloid is said to have been approached, and declined the story
> only because of lack of a pic of the female victim.


er, who was that?


> We have done all we can, Jimmy, Cary and Jay have all the information they
> need to discuss handling if needed (email and on meta), and we have a very
> good case if asked that we (volunteers and office) did damn well in
> handling, which needs heavily putting in line #1 if ever needed.


Good.

I've had no calls or emails, by the way.

I wonder if Cade Metz will take this one on.


> No more to say. I feel sick for the guy and all his family. His kid's Bar
> Mitzvah is this weekend, and his faith and membership in the Jewish
> community (remember all those "list of X jews" he POV pushed on?) means
> everything to him.


Yep.

I wonder if he'll actually go away from Wikimedia now.


> We here on this list probably need to carry on (heavy heart, somber) our
> work for enwiki, I think. I have still some evidence to sum up for review.


er, yay.


- d.
----------
From fredbaud at fairpoint.net Sun Sep 7 18:57:07 2008
From: fredbaud at fairpoint.net (Fred Bauder)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 12:57:07 -0600 (MDT)
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <62129.66.243.196.131.1220813827.squirrel@webmail.fairpoint.net>

I'm not up on the Wikipedia issues, but I did notice he removed his
picture on Wikinfo. (I've never actually had any trouble with him.)

Fred
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 18:59:07 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 19:59:07 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 7:51 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:

> [cc to Jimbo, Cary and Jay]
>
>
> > A top UK tabloid is said to have been approached, and declined the story
> > only because of lack of a pic of the female victim.
>
>
> er, who was that?
>
"The Sun"

>
> > We have done all we can, Jimmy, Cary and Jay have all the information
> they
> > need to discuss handling if needed (email and on meta), and we have a
> very
> > good case if asked that we (volunteers and office) did damn well in
> > handling, which needs heavily putting in line #1 if ever needed.
>
>
> Good.
>
> I've had no calls or emails, by the way.
>
> I wonder if Cade Metz will take this one on.
>
I'm thinking this is a VERY good time to give a social email to Brian
Bergstein at AP, and clue him in. It's going to hit and better we brief them
than others do? Or is it? Is it better we respond after? Or post up a press
release? My salary as an arb doesn't cover press work.


> I wonder if he'll actually go away from Wikimedia now.
>
>
> No. When under stress people revert to habit, and a lot of this is probably
his "way to keep sane". Lose himself in wikiprojects. About 20 of them,
under about 20 socks...... maybe illness isn't that far wrong at that.
Paul.
-----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 19:10:52 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 20:10:52 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809071210j8e8a1dbr6f3c52c1e05128d9@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 7:59 PM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
>> I wonder if he'll actually go away from Wikimedia now.
>
> I should answer that more definitively.
No.
He's currently in denial at wikiquote as we speak, trying to hang on to
editing as Cato and Poetlister and not taking any discussion.
Since he edits on everything from hebrew and arabic wikipedia, to french
wikiquote, to whatever the heck ht: is, on about 20 different projects, and
is an accomplished sock-master with an obsessive personality, it's also more
than likely he has already got other socks/sock rings in place too.
I think I'm going to make one of the harder calls of the last few years, at
some time, here. And someone needs to phone or visit to his wife. Although
not formally "our business", the odds are good she is the only person who
can pull any of this around, if anyone can, and would care to do so. She's a
high level professional too, and probably reading between the lines, a
no-nonsense person. He's going to lie compulsively to her about his
activities here, which will make it worse, and that also would rebound on
us. I'm also expecting an email from his ex boss regarding that
impersonation too.
Paul.
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Sun Sep 7 19:18:18 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2008 20:18:18 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809071218v793608e9nfdd0aa7d0d955c5c@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/7 FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com>:
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 7:51 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:

>> > A top UK tabloid is said to have been approached, and declined the story
>> > only because of lack of a pic of the female victim.

>> er, who was that?

> "The Sun"


I meant the "female victim".

I can just imagine the hash the Sun would make of this.



>> I wonder if Cade Metz will take this one on.

> I'm thinking this is a VERY good time to give a social email to Brian
> Bergstein at AP, and clue him in. It's going to hit and better we brief them
> than others do? Or is it? Is it better we respond after? Or post up a press
> release? My salary as an arb doesn't cover press work.


Nah. If this sinks and goes away then good. We know from experience
that no-one believes much Cade Metz, Andrew Orlowski or Valleywag say
about us any more. I'd leave this one to Jay to call.


>> I wonder if he'll actually go away from Wikimedia now.

> No. When under stress people revert to habit, and a lot of this is probably
> his "way to keep sane". Lose himself in wikiprojects. About 20 of them,
> under about 20 socks...... maybe illness isn't that far wrong at that.


Yep. *headdesk*


- d.
----------
From stephen.bain at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 00:10:58 2008
From: stephen.bain at gmail.com (Stephen Bain)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:10:58 +1000
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809071210j8e8a1dbr6f3c52c1e05128d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071210j8e8a1dbr6f3c52c1e05128d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f30e42de0809071710o40ab204btbdebfce1711debdb@mail.gmail.com>

On Mon, Sep 8, 2008 at 5:10 AM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Since he edits on everything from hebrew and arabic wikipedia, to french
> wikiquote, to whatever the heck ht: is, on about 20 different projects
...

Haitian Creole:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haitian_Creole_language

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 14:32:01 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 10:32:01 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809071210j8e8a1dbr6f3c52c1e05128d9@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071210j8e8a1dbr6f3c52c1e05128d9@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809080732t7fe1d9ecm9bb9b22e1c6171b6@mail.gmail.com>

On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 3:10 PM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 7, 2008 at 7:59 PM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> I wonder if he'll actually go away from Wikimedia now.
>
> I should answer that more definitively.
> No.
> He's currently in denial at wikiquote as we speak, trying to hang on to
> editing as Cato and Poetlister and not taking any discussion.

I'm not surprised he is doing this, but I'm quite surprised that he
still has 3 accounts on Wikiquote, and that they still, as far as I
know, have bureaucrat, checkuser, and administrator status. Is this
going to change soon?
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 19:21:12 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 15:21:12 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809080732t7fe1d9ecm9bb9b22e1c6171b6@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071159k382850d2ne0b66163f8be9a5b@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809071210j8e8a1dbr6f3c52c1e05128d9@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809080732t7fe1d9ecm9bb9b22e1c6171b6@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30809081221m15ba553cka5282d4c05162e05@mail.gmail.com>

I'm pretty sure he's been removed from Checkuser on WQ, not sure about the
other positions.

Newyorkbrad
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Mon Sep 8 20:47:59 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Mon, 8 Sep 2008 16:47:59 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] User:Cato
In-Reply-To: <16032ea0804250912u20cb5be6o7e6d0018288ae189@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080425154610.DPBD29112.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<fbad4e140804250847r1d29ff35u55874153cf3f1ebf@mail.gmail.com>
<16032ea0804250912u20cb5be6o7e6d0018288ae189@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809081347h2dda3aeaq98f94110f9edffde@mail.gmail.com>

And it turns out that Charles and David's suspicions are confirmed.
Good catch, both of you.

On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 12:12 PM, FloNight <sydney.poore at gmail.com> wrote:
> Cato = Poetlister. oh my!!
>
> Sydney
>
> On Fri, Apr 25, 2008 at 11:47 AM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 2008/4/25 Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com>:
>>
>>
>> > So anyway it was a fishing expedition, and we talked about various things in the way of non-CU evidence. Cato went away I think completely unsatisfied, saying I'd been convincing that P wasn't Runcorn, and hurrah for WikiQuote. Well, I'm not a CheckUser, so that was somewhat pointless. I'm mentioning it because Cato was sounding a bit like P towards the end - all our evidence was rubbish, that kind of thing. Seems to be targeting Dmcdevit. I don't have a very good feeling about that.
>>
>>
>> Yeah. I'm wondering if Cato = Poetlister.
>>
>>
>> - d.
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 19:17:42 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 15:17:42 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Cleaning up from the Poetlister saga
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809091217w5f262far6c58849f4ce70594@mail.gmail.com>

One of the last unfinished pieces of business remaining from the
Poetlister saga is the account of his confederate, the banned editor
Arniep. Arniep has been editing as
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contr...Humpelschmumpel

Arniep was banned in November 2006, and he waited until March 2007 to
start editing again, no doubt in order to ensure that the CU database
would no longer contain his data. However, he was unaware that people
had been saving his old e-mails, which revealed his IPs. Arniep's
previous IPs, from those e-mails, included

212.84.99.191
212.84.102.131
212.84.102.218
212.84.102.239
212.84.121.3

His current IPs match those ranges. I've been reluctant to block him,
mostly because I'm tired of all the attention from Wikipedia Review.
Is anyone else willing to take care of this?

Jay
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 19:22:12 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 20:22:12 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Cleaning up from the Poetlister saga
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809091217w5f262far6c58849f4ce70594@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a8d9d700809091217w5f262far6c58849f4ce70594@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809091222v12246871r397ecef09af2201c@mail.gmail.com>

I don't know the history (and dont much need to). Question is, is he/has he
been disruptive this time round? Same patterns (whatever they were)? If
theres a problem pass it my way if needed, I guess, if nobody else will.

I don't know anything of him.

Paul.
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 20:00:19 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 16:00:19 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Cleaning up from the Poetlister saga
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809091222v12246871r397ecef09af2201c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a8d9d700809091217w5f262far6c58849f4ce70594@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809091222v12246871r397ecef09af2201c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809091300h2420f7e7gdfc63e14a82f84a4@mail.gmail.com>

He's a banned editor who is sockpuppeting; I'm not sure what else
would be relevant.

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 3:22 PM, FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com> wrote:
> I don't know the history (and dont much need to). Question is, is he/has he
> been disruptive this time round? Same patterns (whatever they were)? If
> theres a problem pass it my way if needed, I guess, if nobody else will.
>
> I don't know anything of him.
>
> Paul.
---------
From user.jpgordon at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 20:45:59 2008
From: user.jpgordon at gmail.com (Josh Gordon)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 13:45:59 -0700
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Cleaning up from the Poetlister saga
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809091300h2420f7e7gdfc63e14a82f84a4@mail.gmail.com>
References: <6a8d9d700809091217w5f262far6c58849f4ce70594@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809091222v12246871r397ecef09af2201c@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809091300h2420f7e7gdfc63e14a82f84a4@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <99c65f730809091345g4fef4c44jf1394b372fd769e2@mail.gmail.com>

I've blocked him as a confirmed sockpuppet of Arniep.
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 20:55:51 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:55:51 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/7 David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>:

> I wonder if Cade Metz will take this one on.


I am told by a source I can't name (a good Wikipedian who has a low
regard for Mr Metz) that he has indeed been sniffing around.
Presumably tipped off by whoever tried to take the story to the Sun.


- d.
----------
From: sam.blacketer at googlemail.com (Sam Blacketer)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 21:57:48 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e75b49f70809091357x7547d900o42bc89bbd269389a@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:55 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:

> 2008/9/7 David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>:
>
> > I wonder if Cade Metz will take this one on.
>
> I am told by a source I can't name (a good Wikipedian who has a low
> regard for Mr Metz) that he has indeed been sniffing around.
> Presumably tipped off by whoever tried to take the story to the Sun.


Proabivouac I shouldn't wonder.

--
Sam Blacketer
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 21:04:00 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:04:00 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809091404g29bdb274r6c18019c48439710@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 4:55 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
> 2008/9/7 David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>:
>
>> I wonder if Cade Metz will take this one on.
>
>
> I am told by a source I can't name (a good Wikipedian who has a low
> regard for Mr Metz) that he has indeed been sniffing around.
> Presumably tipped off by whoever tried to take the story to the Sun.

Well, the Metz spin will be whatever makes Wikipedia look the worst...
-----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 21:37:04 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 17:37:04 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809091404g29bdb274r6c18019c48439710@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809091404g29bdb274r6c18019c48439710@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30809091437i3443cd0eu1cfae6c24efec982@mail.gmail.com>

I see little or nothing here for which Wikipedia can be blamed. Checkusers
identified abusive socking and blocked the abusers, and the ArbCom desysoped
Runcorn and publicly announced why. A year later we unblocked one and only
one of the accounts, partly in recognition of what seemed like good work
elsewhere and partly so we could have a control if we thought he/she was
socking again. Although I was away at the time, an arbitrator also made a
pretty clear announcement on ANI about the reasons for the unblock and also
why it was limited to just one account. The only thing we can maybe be
faulted for with 20:20 hindsight is not deleting the photographs.

I think most of you know that several different people asked me, around the
time I was elected to the committee, to take a close look at these blocks.
I studied the evidence over a few months and, although I never reached a
final and conclusive judgment of guilt (it just isn't my style to do that),
I certainly realized pretty quickly that the evidence did not point to
innocence. So just this once, at least I wasn't the most credulous one in
the whole place ... I don't think anyone on (or formerly on) the committee
actually wound up believing Poetlister et al.'s account of things.

Newyorkbrad
----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 22:28:49 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 18:28:49 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30809091437i3443cd0eu1cfae6c24efec982@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809091404g29bdb274r6c18019c48439710@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809091437i3443cd0eu1cfae6c24efec982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809091528q13f5d832r13cbfac09f0635b5@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)
<newyorkbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
> I see little or nothing here for which Wikipedia can be blamed.

You aren't Cade Metz, though.
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 22:47:12 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 23:47:12 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <c52819d30809091437i3443cd0eu1cfae6c24efec982@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809091404g29bdb274r6c18019c48439710@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809091437i3443cd0eu1cfae6c24efec982@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809091547h23fc1363qa775ec9a586544ca@mail.gmail.com>

We can't be blamed for the photos either. That's WR spin.

The user contacted helpdesk in 2006, was told to ask taxwoman directly
(_not_ "laughed at"), did so, and didn't come back to say they needed more
help or no luck.

So the upshot was we had 2 users both claiming the pics were "theirs" or
such, one established and one a fly-by who never did anything more. I;'m not
sure even with hindsight we would or should have deleted on the basis of an
untested claim and no follow-up by the complainant.

Paul.
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Tue Sep 9 22:48:33 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2008 23:48:33 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e75b49f70809091357x7547d900o42bc89bbd269389a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com>
<99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
<e75b49f70809091357x7547d900o42bc89bbd269389a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809091548n17702386g7a8ef87c5f82f159@mail.gmail.com>

On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:57 PM, Sam Blacketer
<sam.blacketer at googlemail.com>wrote:

> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 9:55 PM, David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> 2008/9/7 David Gerard <dgerard at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > I wonder if Cade Metz will take this one on.
>>
>> I am told by a source I can't name (a good Wikipedian who has a low
>> regard for Mr Metz) that he has indeed been sniffing around.
>> Presumably tipped off by whoever tried to take the story to the Sun.
>
>
> Proabivouac I shouldn't wonder.
>
> --
> Sam Blacketer
>
>

Confirmed - Proabivouac. Rumor says tried to get the story in a well known
UK tabloid ("the Sun")

Paul.
----------
From dmcdevit at cox.net Wed Sep 10 00:11:50 2008
From: dmcdevit at cox.net (Dominic)
Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:11:50 -0700
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e75b49f70809091357x7547d900o42bc89bbd269389a@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com> <4E33DA41-35C8-4D31-A541-75B89B2FD043@gmail.com> <99c65f730809052314s1e04942cscd9ecfcd9df5fb8c@mail.gmail.com> <e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com> <fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com> <48C41063.8090708@wikia.com> <e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com> <fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com> <fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
<e75b49f70809091357x7547d900o42bc89bbd269389a@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <48C710C6.7010407@cox.net>

Sam Blacketer wrote:
>
> Proabivouac I shouldn't wonder.

To me, the most shocking thing about this thread is being reminded this
troll is still allowed within a mile's radius of Wikipedia. I think
we're doing something wrong if he is still being accommodated.

Dominic
----------
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Wed Sep 10 10:17:03 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (Charles Matthews)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:17:03 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
Message-ID: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

Newyorkbrad wrote:

> I see little or nothing here for which Wikipedia can be blamed.

Wikipedia gets blamed all the time, by people who like that kind of thing. The appropriate attitude (internally) would seem to be to take this as a "case study" for socking. We could be blamed if we don't learn something here. It has all gone on for nearly three years, and the site has changed greatly, too.

<snip>

> So just this once, at least I wasn't the most credulous one in
> the whole place ... I don't think anyone on (or formerly on) the committee
> actually wound up believing Poetlister et al.'s account of things.

I don't know whether it's worth chewing over the whole thing once more. Several things strike me:

- The ArbCom has (roughly) gone with the evidence and where it leads, and has also used its discretion to block and unblock. Most other people commentating or involved have had less to go on, and/or have decided about PL according to their general views. We certainly come out better on this score.

- The profile we had was good, but 20 years too young.

- The particular style of "muddying the waters" used by PL to persuade others of the injustice is probably something to point out, if we are asked for a view by people handling PR on this. It was exactly tuned to what some critics wanted to hear.

- Wikipedia Review loses out big time in terms of its reputation for judgement of character (and anything else, really).

- PL is a manipulative SOB, the like of whom we haven't knowingly encountered (even more so than Brandt, I think, who is ultimately a conviction kook); and this looks like a very messy midlife crisis going on over numerous websites.

This wouldn't be a case from which to draw broad social conclusions. Obviously the sockmaster was equipped to make one very good Wikipedian, rather than a dozen socks.

By the way, did we ever sort out whether PL was also Henrygb? It looks more likely than not, now.

Charles
-----------
From stephen.bain at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 10:25:46 2008
From: stephen.bain at gmail.com (Stephen Bain)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 21:25:46 +1100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809091528q13f5d832r13cbfac09f0635b5@mail.gmail.com>
References: <c52819d30809051905k1575cd4cxb940b06c71bc6575@mail.gmail.com>
<e8c618c80809060504h1938334du39bd38a437fd216e@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809060553v467f1feevc1d177741aa2a6e6@mail.gmail.com>
<48C41063.8090708@wikia.com>
<e71d9fab0809071113x72cfa853s6534bedf9e571822@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809071151r4ffb48dar6e7ff293954ed732@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809091355w11567c6bm6d0a05096749591c@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809091404g29bdb274r6c18019c48439710@mail.gmail.com>
<c52819d30809091437i3443cd0eu1cfae6c24efec982@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809091528q13f5d832r13cbfac09f0635b5@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <f30e42de0809100325r123b3aa3pa1abf5f0ee5fa0e6@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 9:28 AM, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 9, 2008 at 5:37 PM, Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia)
> <newyorkbrad at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I see little or nothing here for which Wikipedia can be blamed.
>
> You aren't Cade Metz, though.

Not blame for anything done, but blame for something omitted,
probably. Or blame for being in a position in which advantage could be
taken of us (a la Essjay).

--
Stephen Bain
stephen.bain at gmail.com
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 10:26:58 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:26:58 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
References: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809100326u4a1b0db5u78f571d3057316cf@mail.gmail.com>

At the risk of mentioning a name I seem to mention far too often -- the only
one in the same class as poet is HeadleyDown, who could also pull this off
and would do so. And is more malevolent, would do it to be harmful.

Who is also posting on the WR page related to the case and very likely
learningfrom it, unfortunately.

Urgh.......

Paul.
----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 10:29:12 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:29:12 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
References: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809100329x25d0f5f3m81796297549c9388@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/10 Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com>:

> By the way, did we ever sort out whether PL was also Henrygb? It looks more likely than not, now.


Really? I wasn't aware of that one. I was one of the checkusers who
busted Henrygb, and as I recall (it was a while ago) I spotted only a
few socks. Was Henrygb's behaviour in accordance with Poetlister's
obsessions (particularly Jewish culture and advocacy)?


- d.
----------
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Wed Sep 10 11:19:26 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (Charles Matthews)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:19:26 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
Message-ID: <20080910111926.LDMI19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

David Gerard wrote

> > By the way, did we ever sort out whether PL was also Henrygb? It looks more likely than not, now.

> Really? I wasn't aware of that one. I was one of the checkusers who
> busted Henrygb, and as I recall (it was a while ago) I spotted only a
> few socks. Was Henrygb's behaviour in accordance with Poetlister's
> obsessions (particularly Jewish culture and advocacy)?

Statistician/mathematician, apparently a Londoner, is what now catches my eye. A connection was suggested at the time (mid-2007) of the block.

Charles
----------
From sam.blacketer at googlemail.com Wed Sep 10 11:33:19 2008
From: sam.blacketer at googlemail.com (Sam Blacketer)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 12:33:19 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <20080910111926.LDMI19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
References: <20080910111926.LDMI19289.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <e75b49f70809100433i64b078adx751f886896dc0920@mail.gmail.com>

On 9/10/08, Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
>
> Statistician/mathematician, apparently a Londoner, is what now catches my
> eye. A connection was suggested at the time (mid-2007) of the block.
>

On the duck test, it's quacking. Several connections including interest in
London postcodes, British communists (cf 'Uncle Sid'), statistics.

--
Sam Blacketer
----------
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Wed Sep 10 12:01:16 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (Charles Matthews)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 13:01:16 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
Message-ID: <20080910120116.OGGI29597.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

"Sam Blacketer" wrote

> On the duck test, it's quacking. Several connections including interest in
> London postcodes, British communists (cf 'Uncle Sid'), statistics.

Henrygb knows the word "degressive" (more than I did), added to [[Euro-English]]. Not many occurrences on the site (we can discount David Monniaux!).

The odd thing about the block was that he (an admin) just went away with hardly a word.

Charles
----------
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:09:20 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
References: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809100709uf29c782l15f9550bb9e9898b@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Charles Matthews
<charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>
> - Wikipedia Review loses out big time in terms of its reputation for judgement of character (and anything else, really).

Not according to them.
----------
From smoddy at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:15:07 2008
From: smoddy at gmail.com (Sam Korn)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:15:07 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809100709uf29c782l15f9550bb9e9898b@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<6a8d9d700809100709uf29c782l15f9550bb9e9898b@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <cbffa3750809100715j4c43ba07lfd1ed22b4263d454@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 3:09 PM, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Charles Matthews
> <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>
>> - Wikipedia Review loses out big time in terms of its reputation for judgement of character (and anything else, really).
>
> Not according to them.

Recognising the difference between reality and make-believe has never
been WR's strongpoint, though...

Hopefully, as Charles says, other people will realise this. I don't
care what trolls think, but I am concerned if useful people think they
are right. This whole affair will hopefully address this.

--
Sam
-----------
From jayjg99 at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:18:34 2008
From: jayjg99 at gmail.com (jayjg)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 10:18:34 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <cbffa3750809100715j4c43ba07lfd1ed22b4263d454@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<6a8d9d700809100709uf29c782l15f9550bb9e9898b@mail.gmail.com>
<cbffa3750809100715j4c43ba07lfd1ed22b4263d454@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700809100718v1b027e53h3d94cfc1406d51cf@mail.gmail.com>

On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 10:15 AM, Sam Korn <smoddy at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 3:09 PM, jayjg <jayjg99 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Charles Matthews
>> <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> - Wikipedia Review loses out big time in terms of its reputation for judgement of character (and anything else, really).
>>
>> Not according to them.
>
> Recognising the difference between reality and make-believe has never
> been WR's strongpoint, though...
>
> Hopefully, as Charles says, other people will realise this. I don't
> care what trolls think, but I am concerned if useful people think they
> are right. This whole affair will hopefully address this.

Well, it may be pointless to bring this up again, but I would have
hoped that this would be one more indication that respected WP members
should not give them credibility by posting there and engaging in
dialog with them. It's a real feather in their cap that they can claim
that two sitting ArbCom members regularly post there, not to mention a
couple of friendly CUs.
----------
From ft2.wiki at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:25:17 2008
From: ft2.wiki at gmail.com (FT2)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:25:17 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <6a8d9d700809100718v1b027e53h3d94cfc1406d51cf@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<6a8d9d700809100709uf29c782l15f9550bb9e9898b@mail.gmail.com>
<cbffa3750809100715j4c43ba07lfd1ed22b4263d454@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809100718v1b027e53h3d94cfc1406d51cf@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e71d9fab0809100725u44dfacb9qb249f51d170c6c6c@mail.gmail.com>

Its actually likely to work well both ways. Voices of sanity usually do.
This way some more extreme rumors can be quashed. If that leads in turn to
WR becoming less insane on the whole, that also feeds back into wiki
projects as less drama and less disruption too.

It seems worthwhile, and we'll see what happens. Right now with Poet going
on, I need to be able to comment there just because that's where the drama
would gain force, if it was tried again.

Paul.
-----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:33:51 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:33:51 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <e71d9fab0809100725u44dfacb9qb249f51d170c6c6c@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080910101703.GNHX18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<6a8d9d700809100709uf29c782l15f9550bb9e9898b@mail.gmail.com>
<cbffa3750809100715j4c43ba07lfd1ed22b4263d454@mail.gmail.com>
<6a8d9d700809100718v1b027e53h3d94cfc1406d51cf@mail.gmail.com>
<e71d9fab0809100725u44dfacb9qb249f51d170c6c6c@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809100733jff3cceaxf4864c07ac54aa91@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/10 FT2 <ft2.wiki at gmail.com>:

> Its actually likely to work well both ways. Voices of sanity usually do.
> This way some more extreme rumors can be quashed. If that leads in turn to
> WR becoming less insane on the whole, that also feeds back into wiki
> projects as less drama and less disruption too.
> It seems worthwhile, and we'll see what happens. Right now with Poet going
> on, I need to be able to comment there just because that's where the drama
> would gain force, if it was tried again.


"Good luck with that. Let us know how it works out for you." ;-p

(I have no plans to look at WR and see - every time I look at WR, I
feel stupider.)


- d.
------------
From charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com Wed Sep 10 14:34:24 2008
From: charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com (Charles Matthews)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:34:24 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
Message-ID: <20080910143424.JYCN18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>

jayjg wrote

> On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 6:17 AM, Charles Matthews
> <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com> wrote:
> >
> > - Wikipedia Review loses out big time in terms of its reputation for judgement of character (and anything else, really).
>
> Not according to them.

A certain amount of cringing going on over there, in anticipation of Encyclopedia Dramatica writing it all up. In any case Somey (who, although I wouldn't trust him far, exhibits humanoid traits) seems to feel penitent.

Charles
-----------
From dgerard at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 14:38:53 2008
From: dgerard at gmail.com (David Gerard)
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 15:38:53 +0100
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <20080910143424.JYCN18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
References: <20080910143424.JYCN18637.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
Message-ID: <fbad4e140809100738l8df945ej5b51ed8a58f32a8b@mail.gmail.com>

2008/9/10 Charles Matthews <charles.r.matthews at ntlworld.com>:

> A certain amount of cringing going on over there, in anticipation of Encyclopedia Dramatica writing it all up. In any case Somey (who, although I wouldn't trust him far, exhibits humanoid traits) seems to feel penitent.


Somey strikes me as a bit of a nutter, with a lot of assumption of bad
faith, but a reasonably pleasant non-vicious nutter.

(I know him as Some User on Uncyclopedia, and thought he was Lir for a
while, but others disagree and I must say that he's much less of a
nutter than Lir was the latter's last go-round on Wikipedia. On
Uncyclopedia I thought he was a fantastic writer, but his nutter
tendencies really pissed off a lot of people. He thinks I'm out to get
him, for no reason I can understand - I'd always been one of his
greatest fans on Uncyc. A very good and funny writer - I was really
hoping that if he was Lir he'd found a wiki he could be productive
on.)


- d.
----------
From newyorkbrad at gmail.com Wed Sep 10 15:00:20 2008
From: newyorkbrad at gmail.com (Newyorkbrad (Wikipedia))
Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2008 11:00:20 -0400
Subject: [Arbcom-l] Henrygb, was Re: Re: Poetlister, Taxwoman, et al.
In-Reply-To: <fbad4e140809100740o1536d9e2qfa588577a78ff1ea@mail.gmail.com>
References: <20080910124825.OXQM29597.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@smtp.ntlworld.com>
<6a8d9d700809100704y5e3d38b9v83afe5cdef62e051@mail.gmail.com>
<fbad4e140809100740o1536d9e2qfa588577a78ff1ea@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <c52819d30809100800g18c787c8i66bbeb2350