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> Could it be any worse?
Kelly Martin
post Thu 4th March 2010, 6:48pm
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Bring back the guttersnipes!
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 4th March 2010, 12:36pm) *

I hate to play Devil's Advocate here, but if the point is to show how the fabric is gathered, does the quality of the stitching itself really matter? One might even argue that high-quality stitching might distract the reader/viewer from the fabric-gathering effect.
I have around here somewhere a most excellent book on manipulating fabric that documents a whole host of methods for shaping fabric using many techniques, including smocking. That book features technically excellent photographs of masterfully executed articles each of which was specifically intended to document the particular method being discussed. Trust me, it is much easier to understand the technique when you are provided with technically superior examples photographed in a technically competent way.

Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.
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Kwork
post Thu 4th March 2010, 6:53pm
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QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Thu 4th March 2010, 6:24pm) *

QUOTE(Kwork @ Thu 4th March 2010, 6:08pm) *

I suppose another option would be to upload this
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37869936@N00/493663266
or something better yet to Commons. Then you could get rid of the embarrassing quality crap in the article.


That one is also quite horrible, though in a different way.


I am not an expert on embroidery, so I could be wrong, but if the intent is to show what a good quality example looks like, I think that image would probably do. There is no need to think in terms of how much you personally would want to wear it.
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Somey
post Thu 4th March 2010, 7:26pm
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QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 4th March 2010, 12:48pm) *
Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.

Well then, I guess we're back to the same question we've always had about Durova, i.e., does she even realize what she's doing? I'd like to think have a healthy respect for women with big egos, even if they occasionally do things that suggest outright delusional thinking. But maybe I'm some sort of "reverse-sexist" for thinking along those lines.

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.
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Tarc
post Thu 4th March 2010, 7:53pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 4th March 2010, 2:26pm) *

QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 4th March 2010, 12:48pm) *
Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.

Well then, I guess we're back to the same question we've always had about Durova, i.e., does she even realize what she's doing? I'd like to think have a healthy respect for women with big egos, even if they occasionally do things that suggest outright delusional thinking. But maybe I'm some sort of "reverse-sexist" for thinking along those lines.

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.


NEEDS MOAR TONGUE
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Kwork
post Thu 4th March 2010, 7:58pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 4th March 2010, 7:26pm) *

QUOTE(Kelly Martin @ Thu 4th March 2010, 12:48pm) *
Of course, the photographs in that book were taken by a professional and the articles being photographed were produced by a master of the craft. Neither statement can be said, without laughter, regarding Durova.

Well then, I guess we're back to the same question we've always had about Durova, i.e., does she even realize what she's doing? I'd like to think have a healthy respect for women with big egos, even if they occasionally do things that suggest outright delusional thinking. But maybe I'm some sort of "reverse-sexist" for thinking along those lines.

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.


People generally think they are doing the right thing, even if they are mistaken. The problem gets bigger when administrators, who are cops, start to enjoy using their authority while knowing they can usually get away with misuse. (I understand Durova is a retired wiki-cop, but she has kept plenty of clout.) There is no one to protect WP users from their protectors. It could be worse, but in kind it is the same as the violant misuses of (for example) NYPD:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUkiyBVytRQ...player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5I_lwQyxNI

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Somey
post Thu 4th March 2010, 8:45pm
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Well, let's be somewhat fair about this - I don't think this is abuse that regular users need protection from. At worst, it's just some combination of egotism and self-promotion masquerading as a desire to provide helpful illustrations, which just happen to be not that good.

I say "self-promotion" despite the fact (or perhaps because of the fact) that I don't really know what Durova does for a living. Some of you may recall this topic, in which I myself pointed out how Wikipedia sound recordings could be used as a professional calling-card, in that case by Makemi (T-C-L-K-R-D) and Mindspillage (T-C-L-K-R-D) :
QUOTE(Me)
Think about it - if you're, let's say, a harpist who plays at wedding receptions and corporate functions, how much more impressive is it to tell prospective clients that if they want to hear one of your recordings, they just have to go check out the article on "Harp" in Wikipedia? Rather than going to your own personal website? That would be a pretty big selling point, seems to me... I realize it's all done within the rules, but you could probably use that to increase your performance fees pretty substantially!

Obviously it would be extremely hypocritical for Durova to do something like that, not to mention risky given the quality of the stitching in question. But I guess that sort of goes without saying at this point.
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Eva Destruction
post Thu 4th March 2010, 8:51pm
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 4th March 2010, 8:45pm) *

I say "self-promotion" despite the fact (or perhaps because of the fact) that I don't really know what Durova does for a living.

"Independent Writing and Editing Professional", apparently. I don't know if that's a fancy way of saying "freelance subeditor".
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The Adversary
post Thu 4th March 2010, 9:02pm
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An illustration in this article can serve two purposes; to show how great the finished work can be (like the Holbein-painting) ..or a "how to" picture. And seriously: would you try to do any of the smocking techniques from Durovas picture? I certainly would not. (As for showing great finished work, there are many pictures on commons; what is needed is a "how to".)

And l agree with Kelly: I have collected several books on a special ethnic type of embroidery these last few years, and, even with my limited interest: I could do that embroidery (if I wanted to!) based on the pictures in those books.

Again; I feel, in one way very badly criticizing Durova on this, as she is one of the few who has done long-term work in the textile/embroidery area. Beggars cannot be choosers, and all that. mellow.gif

The problem is: when someone put up "any" bad work; won't that put off improvement in the future? I think it will. And I think Durova needs some hints, hints, nudge, nudge, that she should concentrate her activities on something else than doing smocking samplers in the future.

I've seen this before: when people work in "low-intensity" areas in wp, it can be easy to get a rather false picture of the value of your own work. People simply don't get enough feedback.

QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 4th March 2010, 8:26pm) *

Anyway, we should be glad it's just the article on Smocking, rather than Snogging (T-H-L-K-D) - the photo that accompanies the Snogging article isn't really all that bad, though I suppose it too would be better if it were done by professionals.

laugh.gif biggrin.gif tongue.gif huh.gif ermm.gif To certain editors on wp: Dont.Even.Think.About.It. dry.gif
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Trick cyclist
post Thu 4th March 2010, 11:05pm
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Fortunately Denmark palmed Norway off to Sweden in 1814
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QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 4th March 2010, 6:36pm) *

Besides, the world has spandex and lycra now

Er - no. It has elastane. This is also known as spandex especially in the USA but according to the BBC spandex is actually a brand name. Lycra is the brand name for spandex used by Du Pont.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A676262

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Spandex.html
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thekohser
post Fri 5th March 2010, 2:12am
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Can't some of this smocking be done so that "M Y W I K I B I Z" appears in the stitching?
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EricBarbour
post Fri 5th March 2010, 2:43am
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QUOTE(The Adversary @ Thu 4th March 2010, 1:02pm) *
Again; I feel, in one way very badly criticizing Durova on this, as she is one of the few who has done long-term work in the textile/embroidery area. Beggars cannot be choosers, and all that. mellow.gif

I don't feel badly about criticizing Durova. She (usually) deserves it.

Wikipedia: The Beggar's Encyclopedia!
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The Adversary
post Fri 5th March 2010, 3:01am
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 5th March 2010, 3:12am) *

Can't some of this smocking be done so that "M Y W I K I B I Z" appears in the stitching?

Heh; do like me: I order all my embroidery on ebay these days.

So much easier than relying on Durovas pictures! happy.gif
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tarantino
post Fri 5th March 2010, 3:24am
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QUOTE(Trick cyclist @ Thu 4th March 2010, 11:05pm) *

QUOTE(Somey @ Thu 4th March 2010, 6:36pm) *

Besides, the world has spandex and lycra now

Er - no. It has elastane. This is also known as spandex especially in the USA but according to the BBC spandex is actually a brand name. Lycra is the brand name for spandex used by Du Pont.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/A676262

http://www.madehow.com/Volume-4/Spandex.html

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Jon Awbrey
post Fri 5th March 2010, 3:28am
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τὰ δέ μοι παθήματα μαθήματα γέγονε
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Image
Spandex Ballet


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RDH(Ghost In The Machine)
post Fri 5th March 2010, 3:49am
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And the admins broke Piggy's glasses...
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 5th March 2010, 3:28am) *

Spandex Ballet


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Jon Awbrey
post Fri 5th March 2010, 3:54am
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QUOTE(RDH(Ghost In The Machine) @ Thu 4th March 2010, 10:49pm) *

QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 5th March 2010, 3:28am) *

Spandex Ballet






Gawd Wins Again …

Jon tongue.gif
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RDH(Ghost In The Machine)
post Fri 5th March 2010, 3:55am
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And the admins broke Piggy's glasses...
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QUOTE(Jon Awbrey @ Fri 5th March 2010, 3:54am) *

Gawd Wins Again …

Jon tongue.gif


Teehee
tongue.gif



This post has been edited by RDH(Ghost In The Machine): Fri 5th March 2010, 3:59am
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Enric_Naval
post Fri 5th March 2010, 6:13pm
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QUOTE(thekohser @ Fri 5th March 2010, 3:12am) *

Can't some of this smocking be done so that "M Y W I K I B I Z" appears in the stitching?


You could pay someone to make it and upload it to wikipedia. Oh wait....
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Trick cyclist
post Fri 5th March 2010, 8:21pm
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QUOTE(tarantino @ Fri 5th March 2010, 3:24am) *

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.
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Eva Destruction
post Fri 5th March 2010, 8:25pm
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QUOTE(Trick cyclist @ Fri 5th March 2010, 8:21pm) *

QUOTE(tarantino @ Fri 5th March 2010, 3:24am) *

What a stupid article. It doesnt mention elastane.

Yes, that's the main problem with it.
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