Is Malleus addicted to Wikipedia?, Is it possible for him to stop editing, even for a day? Options

[chrisoff]

Despite umpteen threats to "leave", the last one that Malleus won't edit an article again until his demands are met.

I won't be returning to editing articles until User:Georgewilliamherbert puts his money where his mouth is with respect to his threat to take User:Mkativerata to ArbCom for unblocking me, during which investigation I hope that [[User:Kaldari]]'s behaviour will also come under scrutiny.

I'll wait as long as it takes. It's time for George to walk the walk, no more empty threats.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=458397734

[everyking]

Can someone sum this situation up for me? What has Malleus been up to lately?

[The Joy]

Can someone sum this situation up for me? What has Malleus been up to lately?

The usual, really:

Malleus and a guy get into an argument with both going at each other.

Other guy complains and Malleus is blocked. Other guy just gets a warning.

Malleus is unblocked. He and his supporters declare war on corrupt administrators.

Malleus's supporters, opponents, WP:CIVIL warriors, British language culture experts, drama queens, and hecklers come out swinging at each other like opposing European football teams out for blood.

Blocking administrator is castigated for blocking Malleus.

Unblocking administrator is castigated for not informing the blocking administrator.

Threats are made to take the whole thing to ArbCom.

Despite the vitriol and hyperbole, some calm is returning though tensions remain (much like the Middle East or the Balkans).

If history is any guide:

The status quo ante bellum will return (at least until the next major flare-up), or this will go to ArbCom.

Arbcom would rather be slowly digested in the Sarlacc Pit for over a thousand years than deal with this case and will do everything to stop the thing being thrown in their laps. After a long, painful, time-consuming trial, the ArbCom will admonish/caution/remind/WP:TROUT/whatever everyone involved, encourage everyone to engage in peace and love, and wash their hands of the matter (at least until the next major flare-up). If sanctions are enacted (via the ArbCom case, another case, amendment, clarification or motion), zealots on every side will argue over minutiae, bureaucratic details, the definition of WP:INVOLVED as well as WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, among other things. Zealots will enforce the ruling to punish the opposing side and ignore/water down sanctions against their side. ArbCom will have to make several clarifications/amendments/motions to deal with the zealotry and misery involved. Eventually, this will go long enough that the community, ArbCom, and all sides decide to give it all up as no one can win or get "justice," so everything goes back to the status quo ante bellum (at least until the next major flare-up).

The deeper problems are never solved, resulting a Cold War-esque atmosphere that exists just beneath the surface before erupting like a super-volcano and restarting the whole dog-gone process all over again.

I think that summarizes everything. Right, Malleus?

[Malleus]

Seems a fair summary.

[radek]

Can someone sum this situation up for me? What has Malleus been up to lately?

The usual, really:

Malleus and a guy get into an argument with both going at each other.

Other guy complains and Malleus is blocked. Other guy just gets a warning.

Malleus is unblocked. He and his supporters declare war on corrupt administrators.

Malleus's supporters, opponents, WP:CIVIL warriors, British language culture experts, drama queens, and hecklers come out swinging at each other like opposing European football teams out for blood.

Blocking administrator is castigated for blocking Malleus.

Unblocking administrator is castigated for not informing the blocking administrator.

Threats are made to take the whole thing to ArbCom.

Despite the vitriol and hyperbole, some calm is returning though tensions remain (much like the Middle East or the Balkans).

If history is any guide:

The status quo ante bellum will return (at least until the next major flare-up), or this will go to ArbCom.

Arbcom would rather be slowly digested in the Sarlacc Pit for over a thousand years than deal with this case and will do everything to stop the thing being thrown in their laps. After a long, painful, time-consuming trial, the ArbCom will admonish/caution/remind/WP:TROUT/whatever everyone involved, encourage everyone to engage in peace and love, and wash their hands of the matter (at least until the next major flare-up). If sanctions are enacted (via the ArbCom case, another case, amendment, clarification or motion), zealots on every side will argue over minutiae, bureaucratic details, the definition of WP:INVOLVED as well as WP:NPA and WP:CIVIL, among other things. Zealots will enforce the ruling to punish the opposing side and ignore/water down sanctions against their side. ArbCom will have to make several clarifications/amendments/motions to deal with the zealotry and misery involved. Eventually, this will go long enough that the community, ArbCom, and all sides decide to give it all up as no one can win or get "justice," so everything goes back to the status quo ante bellum (at least until the next major flare-up).

The deeper problems are never solved, resulting a Cold War-esque atmosphere that exists just beneath the surface before erupting like a super-volcano and restarting the whole dog-gone process all over again.

I think that summarizes everything. Right, Malleus?

Can't say I fault ArbCom on this one.

But someone should give some of these people a kick in the ass. Sometimes just summoning up some chutzpah and reporting one of them to AE or wherever else - even if YOU KNOW nothing will happen - can shut them up for awhile and make them think twice next time.

[Tarc]

But someone should give some of these people a kick in the ass. Sometimes just summoning up some chutzpah and reporting one of them to AE or wherever else - even if YOU KNOW nothing will happen - can shut them up for awhile and make them think twice next time.

Conversely, a pile of reports that go nowhere tend to make the subjects fanclub look like a pack of whning ambulance-chasers. I got taken to Wikiquette Alerts, or assistance, whatever its feel-good name is this week, in successive weeks recently. Editors who were too hurt and bewildered because I told them that their positions sucked while not using comforting words to do so.

[The Joy]

Can't say I fault ArbCom on this one.

But someone should give some of these people a kick in the ass. Sometimes just summoning up some chutzpah and reporting one of them to AE or wherever else - even if YOU KNOW nothing will happen - can shut them up for awhile and make them think twice next time.

Technically, ArbCom hasn't ruled on this... yet. Georgewilliamherbert (T-C-L-K-R-D) promises it will go to ArbCom but it seems he has pulled a brave Sir Robyn and made a swift retreat, leaving all in limbo.

Just replace "Malleus" with "Giano" or "Georgewilliamherbert" with "Chillum" and you realize that this pattern has continued for many, many years with no end in sight. The actors change, but the script stays the same.

[Malleus]

Just replace "Malleus" with "Giano" or "Georgewilliamherbert" with "Chillum" and you realize that this pattern has continued for many, many years with no end in sight. The actors change, but the script stays the same.

True.

[mbz1]

Technically, ArbCom hasn't ruled on this... yet. Georgewilliamherbert (T-C-L-K-R-D) promises it will go to ArbCom but it seems he has pulled a brave Sir Robyn and made a swift retreat, leaving all in limbo.

I cannot understand why govcom's members seem to be accepting the case. What ruling could come out of this? Why to create an unnecessary drama?

Generally speaking I know only one administrator Durova who was forced to resign the tools after a single bad block. On the other hand there are few administrators who were desysoped and/or sanctioned because they unblocked an editor. No matter what even unwarranted unblock is much lesser abuse of the tools than unwarranted block. I know administrators who blocked editors after they were canvassed, who blocked editors while they were heavily involved, but they did not even get warned. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/hrmph.gif)

Still, Malleus, you've never responded: are you addicted to Wikipedia? (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

This post has been edited by mbz1:

[Ottava]

If ArbCom wanted to try an experiment that would work: ban anyone who fights with Malleus and brings him up at ANI for one year. That will not only stop most of the drama but also help clear out the trash.

[Vigilant]

If ArbCom wanted to try an experiment that would work: ban anyone who fights with Malleus and brings him up at ANI for one year. That will not only stop most of the drama but also help clear out the trash.

Oh Jeffrey...

For a guy who is ostensibly working on a doctoral thesis, you have the most simple and uncomplicated mind I've ever seen.

[A Horse With No Name]

Just replace "Malleus" with "Giano" or "Georgewilliamherbert" with "Chillum" and you realize that this pattern has continued for many, many years with no end in sight. The actors change, but the script stays the same.

Oh, please, the actors work on completely different scripts because their personalities are so different. Malleus comes across like Stewart Granger in a 1950s MGM Technicolor adventure -- you half expect him with Ava Gardner in his left arm while he balances a gin and tonic with his right hand.

In comparison, Giano behaves like Mr. Bacciagalupe from the old Abbott and Costello TV show, while Chillum seems like a refugee from "Reefer Madness" and GWH is one of the OCD-type dweebs of "The Big Bang Theory."

[chrisoff]

Come on. Malleus loves this stuff. Loves to be blocked. Loves the ruckus it kicks up. Loves his lackeys coming to his defence. Loves all the useless MYSPACE posting it produces. Loves the distraction from article writing. (This way he gets attention he never gets from just editing). Loves the praise from his FAC groupies.

There's never a day he isn't posting for 10, 12, 14 hours, either here or there. The guy obviously has no other life.

Loves the attention of whatever kind. Likes to kick people around, except the wiki "elite". The ones he's decided are the creme of the crop, definitely not admins because he'll never be one.

[chrisoff]

If ArbCom wanted to try an experiment that would work: ban anyone who fights with Malleus and brings him up at ANI for one year. That will not only stop most of the drama but also help clear out the trash.

I think it's a good idea. It'll work. (Malleus may lose interest though. Where's the fun without the drama? Of course he could spend oodles of time reporting people and lining them up for a ban.)

[EricBarbour]

In comparison, Giano behaves like Mr. Bacciagalupe from the old Abbott and Costello TV show, while Chillum seems like a refugee from "Reefer Madness" and GWH is one of the OCD-type dweebs of "The Big Bang Theory."

My dear, most of them are like Big Bang Theory characters.

(And oh, by the way, Sheldon Cooper is now 78k bytes long with 110 references. He's their hero! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/yak.gif) )

[The Joy]

ArbCom is actually going along with this? Ah, but it seems they are focusing on "If Admin A decides X instead of Y, and Admin B does Y, is Admin B undermining Admin A?" Although Risker brings it up, the issue of civility and personal attacks will be pushed aside.

[TungstenCarbide]

ArbCom is actually going along with this? Ah, but it seems they are focusing on "If Admin A decides X instead of Y, and Admin B does Y, is Admin B undermining Admin A?" Although Risker brings it up, the issue of civility and personal attacks will be pushed aside.

'civility' violations have long been a mechanism for silencing people. Only the rare exception, like Giano, can get away with honest discourse. In fact, WP:ANI has a professional baiter who's job is to troll the right people into a blockable reaction.

[jd turk]

Malleus and a guy get into an argument with both going at each other....
The deeper problems are never solved, resulting a Cold War-esque atmosphere that exists just beneath the surface before erupting like a super-volcano and restarting the whole dog-gone process all over again.

That is beautifully put. And frightening accurate.

And no, Malleus won't quit. And why should he? He's the story's hero raging against corruption and ignorance. Or he's the grand villain, striking at the system wherever he finds weakness.

Either way, it's his story.

[melloden]

Come on. Malleus loves this stuff. Loves to be blocked. Loves the ruckus it kicks up. Loves his lackeys coming to his defence. Loves all the useless MYSPACE posting it produces. Loves the distraction from article writing. (This way he gets attention he never gets from just editing). Loves the praise from his FAC groupies.

There's never a day he isn't posting for 10, 12, 14 hours, either here or there. The guy obviously has no other life.

Loves the attention of whatever kind. Likes to kick people around, except the wiki "elite". The ones he's decided are the creme of the crop, definitely not admins because he'll never be one.

Hey, chrisoff, weren't you like that, too?

[Ottava]

ArbCom is actually going along with this? Ah, but it seems they are focusing on "If Admin A decides X instead of Y, and Admin B does Y, is Admin B undermining Admin A?" Although Risker brings it up, the issue of civility and personal attacks will be pushed aside.

'civility' violations have long been a mechanism for silencing people. Only the rare exception, like Giano, can get away with honest discourse. In fact, WP:ANI has a professional baiter who's job is to troll the right people into a blockable reaction.

Like all of the ANI regulars who obviously can't fit in society enough to get a date, he is a master baiter.

[SB_Johnny]

In fact, WP:ANI has a professional baiter who's job is to troll the right people into a blockable reaction.

I've been wondering what that guy's purpose was... thanks for clearing that up at last!

[Vigilant]

ArbCom is actually going along with this? Ah, but it seems they are focusing on "If Admin A decides X instead of Y, and Admin B does Y, is Admin B undermining Admin A?" Although Risker brings it up, the issue of civility and personal attacks will be pushed aside.

'civility' violations have long been a mechanism for silencing people. Only the rare exception, like Giano, can get away with honest discourse. In fact, WP:ANI has a professional baiter who's job is to troll the right people into a blockable reaction.

Like all of the ANI regulars who obviously can't fit in society enough to get a date, he is a master baiter.

I bet your love life looks like Dr Sheldon Cooper's...

Are you expecting to undergo mitosis anytime soon?

[chrisoff]

Dig this ARCHIVING by Ms "what the fuck" SandyGeorgia to clear her talk page of criticisms of her little (and dwindling) CABAL.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=460720765

All in defence of Malleus (he must be quite a chap!) and fav Ealdgyth (the mass producer of dead English bishops FACs.

Ealdgyth says to Carcharoth:

"While I certainly can't say that I'd have expressed myself in quite the terms that Malleus did, Carcharoth, your post sounds incredibly pompous and annoying. Much like a school teacher lecturing small children to get back to their homework. Perhaps you've forgotten that we are volunteers and if we want to chat on user talk pages, we certainly are allowed to. And certainly, lecturing this group of people ... who are certainly considered some of the stronger content contributors on Wikipedia .. wasn't the smartest move you ever made. I'll point out that MF's percentage of article edits is in the high 60%, while yours is 25%. Parrots is also above 60%, as is mine. I think you can safely say we know what the goal of the project is. "

And Carcharoth dares to make a comment back to the revered Ealdgyth!

"But can't you see that you've managed to be pompous and annoying yourself there? Quoting percentage of article edits and putting yourself on a pedestal is the very definition of being patronising (and in any case, amount and quality of content added is a far better metric than pure edit counts or edit percentages - I would never judge someone purely on edit counts or percentages - and yes, I know you've all done more of that than I have, but that is still missing the point). The point is that I was pointing out the double standard of complaints being made about off-wiki IRC socialising (the edit summary was something like 'spoonfeeding the IRC crowd'), when large amounts of the same sort of socialising goes on on user talk pages. That those doing the socialising are a high-calibre quality of content editor shouldn't make any difference. Just as high-quality content editing isn't a free pass for incivility, it isn't a free pass to use Wikipedia for socialising (within reason, I'm not trying to be a complete killjoy, just pointing out some of the unintended consequences [due entirely to human nature being what it is] of user talk pages becoming de facto semi-private socialising areas rather than places for messages to be left)."

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=460717799

SandyGeorgia, Ealdgyth, Malleus types will be the downfall of the boringly elite (but nasty) FAC. Poor Carcharoth, a victim of WP:SHUN. He can't join their high school Facebooky group! He's not deferential enough to the FAC CABAL.

[GlassBeadGame]

Like William Burroughs could tell you: you shall know the junkie by his works.

[chrisoff]

Hey, thanks! Fits Malleus to a "T". Love the toilet background. True music to accompany Malleus and his self-righteous addiction. Though it doesn't address the self-righteousness of Malleus. Maybe some church music on the side? (And to fit with Ealdgyth's endless dead bishops, which will never, never end?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=460717799

From Malleus with edit summary "Carcharoroth ought to consider thinking)" (Learn to spell, Mally or was the insult intentional?)
There's a clear disconnect between those building the project and those who police it. Carcharoth ought to be thinking about that before he posts again.

No one knows, like Malleus knows, what is RIGHT. What a snob.

[mbz1]

Another time., and after this and this

Well, good luck to you, Malleus! Prove to them you could live without wikipedia.

This post has been edited by mbz1:

[A Horse With No Name]

Another time., and after this and this

Well, good luck to you, Malleus! Prove to them you could live without wikipedia.

How sad - that Scottish imbecile Chris "editing while drunk" Cunningham (who has contributed absolutely nothing of value to Wikipedia, let alone to the real world) has to harass Malley with his "tools."

Once again, the scum chases away the best and the brightest. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/dry.gif)

[mbz1]

Malleus says:

The very clear purpose of indefinite blocks is to humiliate editors by forcing them to recant whatever it is that the blocking administrator has taken exception to. To understand the way that Wikipedia works you have to think of it as a poorly run primary school, where the teachers are even younger than the pupils. [[User:Malleus Fatuorum|Malleus]] [[User_talk:Malleus_Fatuorum|Fatuorum]] 18:15, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

He is right, except I would have put it like that: "Wikipedia is like a poorly run primary school, where some teachers are even younger than the pupils, and these "teachers" get pleasure from issuing indefinite blocks."

This post has been edited by mbz1:

[chrisoff]

Another time., and after this and this

Well, good luck to you, Malleus! Prove to them you could live without wikipedia.

Block log: 23:08, 22 December 2011 28bytes (talk | contribs) blocked Malleus Fatuorum (talk | contribs) (autoblock disabled) with an expiry time of 02:17, 29 December 2011 ‎ (Malleus does not wish to participate in the ArbCom case, so restoring Hawkeye7's block per his request.)

Malleus thinks it will be over by December 29? Looks like Arbcom is going to take the case.

Malleus did brag on wiki that his wife's rug matched her curtains, that's how he knew she was a real blonde. Maybe he needs to spend some time home, off the computer, for a while.

Perhaps that will reduce his need to call other people "dicks", "cunts" and talk about their "wet and dry dreams." He seems to have sex on his mind.

[Malleus]

Malleus thinks it will be over by December 29?

I think nothing of the sort; it'll be over when I say it's over.

This post has been edited by Malleus:

[chrisoff]

Malleus thinks it will be over by December 29?

I think nothing of the sort; it'll be over when I say it's over.

Then why ask for a self block until December 29? Because Maunus made self blocks fashsionable?

[Malleus]

Malleus thinks it will be over by December 29?

I think nothing of the sort; it'll be over when I say it's over.

Then why ask for a self block until December 29? Because Maunus made self blocks fashsionable?

You need to check your facts.

[Maunus]

Malleus thinks it will be over by December 29?

I think nothing of the sort; it'll be over when I say it's over.

Then why ask for a self block until December 29? Because Maunus made self blocks fashsionable?

I would be honored if that were the case. And I hope it does become fashionable for content contributers to use the block tool to go on strike.

This post has been edited by Maunus:

[A Horse With No Name]

Perhaps that will reduce his need to call other people "dicks", "cunts" and talk about their "wet and dry dreams." He seems to have sex on his mind.

No wonder he is so smart! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

This post has been edited by A Horse With No Name:

[mbz1]

Perhaps that will reduce his need to call other people "dicks", "cunts" and talk about their "wet and dry dreams." He seems to have sex on his mind.

No wonder he is so smart! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

And besides he's "married to the most beautiful and wonderful woman on Earth. "
I guess it is why he is editing wikipedia until 2-3 in a morning even, when blocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

[A Horse With No Name]

title=User_talk:Malleus_Fatuorum&diff=prev&oldid=467430964]"married to the most beautiful and wonderful woman on Earth. "[/url]

Way to go, Malley! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/smile.gif)

[chrisoff]

Perhaps that will reduce his need to call other people "dicks", "cunts" and talk about their "wet and dry dreams." He seems to have sex on his mind.

No wonder he is so smart! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

And besides he's "married to the most beautiful and wonderful woman on Earth. "
I guess it is why he is editing wikipedia until 2-3 in a morning even, when blocked (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif)

Richwales is talking out of his arse. What I've said is that the block will end if and when I decide that it does, nobody else, not even the almighty ArbCom. And when it's ended I may or I may not continue to contribute here, again my choice. As for making a "vow", well, words fail me --Malleus Fatuorum

Reply to Richwales from Malleus Fatuorum to the Arbcom page, since he is blocked by his own request.

Any bets how long his "self block" will last? I say no more than a week. I'll eat my hat if he stops editing. He's incapable of stopping. He's addicted and has no other life. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/laugh.gif)

This post has been edited by chrisoff:

[mbz1]

In a meantime campaign for unblocking Malleus just became mach more dramatic (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) with some visual illustrations that almost look like the ones used in ED (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

[Peter Damian]

In a meantime campaign for unblocking Malleus just became mach more dramatic (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) with some visual illustrations that almost look like the ones used in ED (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

Since the template itself has been changed, you will have to look here to see what it looked like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

[jd turk]

Since the template itself has been changed, you will have to look here to see what it looked like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

Classy.

[mbz1]

In a meantime campaign for unblocking Malleus just became mach more dramatic (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) with some visual illustrations that almost look like the ones used in ED (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wtf.gif)

Since the template itself has been changed, you will have to look here to see what it looked like http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...&action=history

Then here's a better link (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/blink.gif)

[Zoloft]

Perhaps some demurely designed barnstars are needed, so Malleus can just drop one on the user page of someone he's cheesed off at.

• The 'Vagrant Vulva' barnstar for random assholery.
• The 'Mons Pubis' barnstar for a classy but clueless editor.
• The 'Labia Majora' barnstar when a ruckus is just beginning to flower.
• The 'Querulous Queef' barnstar awarded when the dispute lands at AN/I.

[mbz1]

In a meantime Malleus talk is getting a big traffic

[chrisoff]

In a meantime Malleus talk is getting a big traffic

And FAC is struggling with editor involvement falling off! Just think, all this energy put into Malleus and his bad temper and sex problems could be going into article writing!

It's all become too nasty. What's so hard about not using "cunt", "dick" etc. Does Malleus call his wife a "cunt"? Well. maybe he does, considering he has nothing to do at night but stir up trouble on WP. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/evilgrin.gif)

[mbz1]

And now "Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement" is officially opened

This post has been edited by mbz1:

[dogbiscuit]

<sigh> Are they still trying to claim that the most objectionable word in the UK is somehow OK to use, just because a small subsection of the English speaking population use it as mild but friendly abuse in certain circumstances? Guy Chapman has much to answer for in making that claim.

In private groups you might get away with it, with people you know. Anywhere else you are taking a big risk of being flattened by someone who would be outraged or arrested for offensive language. I doubt the magistrates would be overly impressed by the "Someone told me it was OK on Wikipedia" defence.

[Kelly Martin]

And now "Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement" is officially opened

Civility is how one shows respect; if one is forced to be civil toward those who do not deserve it, then civility itself loses all meaning.

[chrisoff]

Civility is a matter of courtesy and respect for a fellow being. It is not something that is "deserved" or earned. It is the way individuals treat each other in a civilized society. Because someone does not agree with Malleus does not give him leave to spatter them with vulgarity. What will that achieve? Will that improve the discourse? Sometimes treating an "enemy" with respect is the best way toward a truce and reconciliation.

How does Malleus repeatedly making it clear that he doesn't respect certain editors help? Malleus gets to choose who doesn't deserve to be treated with civility, then jump in the gutter and call them a "cunt" or "dick" or speculate about their "wet or dry dreams". So what does that accomplish except more antagonism?

Think of all the WP text written about Malleus's vulgarity, both for and against. What a waste, when all Malleus has to do is leave a few words out of his vocabulary. Is he incapable of that? If he is, he has a problem.

No wonder WP is such a nasty place.

[A Horse With No Name]

And now "Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement" is officially opened

There is no longer any novelty in watching these obnoxious people "enforce" anything. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

[that one guy]

And now "Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement" is officially opened

There is no longer any novelty in watching these obnoxious people "enforce" anything. (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/ermm.gif)

It's funny watching Jehochman though! He thinks that there should have been an RFC. Sounds like he wants to follow process for the sake of process.

Though this seems like a far cry from the days where he defended Durova from the evil Giano.

[Web Fred]

<sigh> Are they still trying to claim that the most objectionable word in the UK is somehow OK to use, just because a small subsection of the English speaking population use it as mild but friendly abuse in certain circumstances? Guy Chapman has much to answer for in making that claim.

In private groups you might get away with it, with people you know. Anywhere else you are taking a big risk of being flattened by someone who would be outraged or arrested for offensive language. I doubt the magistrates would be overly impressed by the "Someone told me it was OK on Wikipedia" defence.

For some reason I doubt that in most cases anyone fey enough or thin-skinned to be insulted or incensed by the C-word would have the physical ability to flatten the speaker.

Civility is a matter of courtesy and respect for a fellow being. It is not something that is "deserved" or earned. It is the way individuals treat each other in a civilized society. Because someone does not agree with Malleus does not give him leave to spatter them with vulgarity. What will that achieve? Will that improve the discourse? Sometimes treating an "enemy" with respect is the best way toward a truce and reconciliation.

How does Malleus repeatedly making it clear that he doesn't respect certain editors help? Malleus gets to choose who doesn't deserve to be treated with civility, then jump in the gutter and call them a "cunt" or "dick" or speculate about their "wet or dry dreams". So what does that accomplish except more antagonism?

Think of all the WP text written about Malleus's vulgarity, both for and against. What a waste, when all Malleus has to do is leave a few words out of his vocabulary. Is he incapable of that? If he is, he has a problem.

No wonder WP is such a nasty place.

I've heard some total new-age bollocks spouted before, but the above is right up there with the most hippyish.

[dogbiscuit]

For some reason I doubt that in most cases anyone fey enough or thin-skinned to be insulted or incensed by the C-word would have the physical ability to flatten the speaker.

Which just shows that you don't get it.

Try this:

Stand at a bar in the UK, find a suitable test case, such as a bunch of builders who have been happily calling each other all sorts of names on the building site, and as a stranger say:

"I was at the bar first, you cunt."

We have an excellent ambulance and health service for such situations. A wimpy "Someone on Wikipedia said it was normal to call people cunts" is not going to work in the few nanoseconds you will have to errect your defences.

[Web Fred]

For some reason I doubt that in most cases anyone fey enough or thin-skinned to be insulted or incensed by the C-word would have the physical ability to flatten the speaker.

Which just shows that you don't get it.

Try this:

Stand at a bar in the UK, find a suitable test case, such as a bunch of builders who have been happily calling each other all sorts of names on the building site, and as a stranger say:

"I was at the bar first, you cunt."

We have an excellent ambulance and health service for such situations. A wimpy "Someone on Wikipedia said it was normal to call people cunts" is not going to work in the few nanoseconds you will have to errect your defences.

First off I am a Brit, secondly it's a bad analogy and thirdly not all wp editors are pusil, teenage basement dwellers.

And fourthly anyone knows you wait for one of them to go to the bog, you follow him in, and only then do you call him a cunt... rinse and repeat.

[dogbiscuit]

For some reason I doubt that in most cases anyone fey enough or thin-skinned to be insulted or incensed by the C-word would have the physical ability to flatten the speaker.

Which just shows that you don't get it.

Try this:

Stand at a bar in the UK, find a suitable test case, such as a bunch of builders who have been happily calling each other all sorts of names on the building site, and as a stranger say:

"I was at the bar first, you cunt."

We have an excellent ambulance and health service for such situations. A wimpy "Someone on Wikipedia said it was normal to call people cunts" is not going to work in the few nanoseconds you will have to errect your defences.

First off I am a Brit, secondly it's a bad analogy and thirdly not all wp editors are pusil, teenage basement dwellers.

And fourthly anyone knows you wait for one of them to go to the bog, you follow him in, and only then do you call him a cunt... rinse and repeat.

It's a fine analogy. The basic argument is that cunt is a not a word to use to people you do not know just because in some circumstances it has been shown that friends use it as a mild riposte. There are certain Wikipedians who are trying to argue that because in some limited circumstances it can be shown to be acceptable, it must therefore be acceptable in all circumstances.

The fact remains that it is a word that in general public, which includes overhearing it on the Clapham omnibus, it is considered to be singularly offensive. If you are overheard using it in public it is deemed unacceptable, and if you direct the word at someone you do not know it is unacceptable except in very rare circumstances. Even on adult dramas on late night TV, the only way the word would be used would be as a deliberate shock value on some drama deemed as high value, it is not worth the hassle of justifying it to the broadcast higher-ups otherwise. I've had someone put on a final warning for being thrown off a flight for using the word.

[A Horse With No Name]

...not all wp editors are pusil, teenage basement dwellers.

Thanks for confirming that Kevin Rutherford is a mere aberration! (IMG:smilys0b23ax56/default/wink.gif)

[chrisoff]

I wonder why Malleus doesn't see himself in control more. He lets others be in charge of his behavior and "drive him to distraction". He can't help himself, except when really on the chopping block.

He's a member of the "how does that make you feel" school. Other editors "make" him feel and do things. Well, he's being nice now, cause he's scared.

But he really doesn't have anything to be scared of. So he gets banned from RFC by Arbcom. That would be doing him and everyone else a favor. And that's the worse that can happen.

All this wailing and bemoaning by the little gang that runs to his protection is all upset over that!

(The problem is that the vested admins who always reverted his blocks (Moni3 et al) have to be more careful now - too much scrutiny has befallen Malleus. They can't get away with the quick unblocks that easily now. So maybe he'll have to behave - imagine!)

[lilburne]

The fact remains that it is a word that in general public, which includes overhearing it on the Clapham omnibus, it is considered to be singularly offensive.

I've met the guy on the Clapham omnibus ... He's a right cunt.
Johnny Rotten

[Detective]

I've met the guy on the Clapham omnibus ... He's a right cunt.
Johnny Rotten

OK, if Johnny Rotten had been a WP editor he'd have been blocked for offensive language. Your point being?

Incidentally, why was nobody involved in putting and keeping images of Mohammed banned for incivility to Muslims?

[Tarc]

Incidentally, why was nobody involved in putting and keeping images of Mohammed banned for incivility to Muslims?

Perhaps because doing something that others may find offensive is not an inherently incivil action?

[Ottava]

And now "Wikipedia:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Civility enforcement" is officially opened

Civility is how one shows respect; if one is forced to be civil toward those who do not deserve it, then civility itself loses all meaning.

I miss when civility meant to wear the proper clothes, drink tea the correct way, and to use proper grammar when speaking.