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Death of Osama bin Laden, ten years later ... |
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melloden |
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 1:47am) Ugh, stupid IP addresses keep putting stupid stuff in the article and the talk page. Nothing new there, but there's way more than i've ever seen.
It appears the article was protected from exactly that shortly before you posted this. I dunno, I guess if someone's death is a Really Big Hairy Deal like this one is, then they might as well have a separate article, though it does seem a little... inelegant, such that it could conceivably be interpreted as a clearly US/UK-dominated group of "internet people" just gloating. Not that anyone is likely to care... Still, if you look at other examples, they're either not much help or somewhat contradictory. For instance, Death of a Salesman (T-H-L-K-D) is a highly extensive article, but Salesman is nothing but a redirect. Likewise, The Death of Ivan Ilyich (T-H-L-K-D) is also extensive, whereas Ivan Ilyich is actually a redirect to the very same article.I suppose a better comparison might be made to the Death of John Lennon (T-H-L-K-D), which is about half as long as the article on Lennon himself... except John Lennon wasn't the leader of a massive international terrorist network. Luigi Galleani (T-H-L-K-D) was the leader of such a network, but there's no separate article on his death - but that's probably because he died of a heart attack. Andreas Baader (T-H-L-K-D) was an international terrorist, but he wasn't really the leader of a massive network... but he committed suicide in prison to avoid execution, so that's probably not too encyclopedic. If he'd committed suicide in prison to avoid watching Doctor Who reruns, then maybe... Anyway, I guess it really doesn't matter in the end.
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 12:58am) I suppose a better comparison might be made to the Death of John Lennon (T-H-L-K-D), which is about half as long as the article on Lennon himself... except John Lennon wasn't the leader of a massive international terrorist network. Luigi Galleani (T-H-L-K-D) was the leader of such a network, but there's no separate article on his death - but that's probably because he died of a heart attack. Andreas Baader (T-H-L-K-D) was an international terrorist, but he wasn't really the leader of a massive network... but he committed suicide in prison to avoid execution, so that's probably not too encyclopedic. If he'd committed suicide in prison to avoid watching Doctor Who reruns, then maybe... Anyway, I guess it really doesn't matter in the end. There will surely be enough info on the operation itself to merit an article. Hell, there will be books about it, because it was a tough 10 year operation, and the endgame was 8 months. The article on the death of JFK itself has subarticles. Bin Laden won't get that much.
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mauve |
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QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 12:25am) Not a week ago, but April 29th in the morning, apparently.
April 29th was when Obama decided to go ahead with the operation. It actually happened on May 1st. From the BBC: QUOTE On Sunday a team of US forces undertook the operation in Abbottabad, 100km (62 miles) north-east of Islamabad.
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Silver seren |
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QUOTE(mauve @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 8:41am) QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 12:25am) Not a week ago, but April 29th in the morning, apparently.
April 29th was when Obama decided to go ahead with the operation. It actually happened on May 1st. From the BBC: QUOTE On Sunday a team of US forces undertook the operation in Abbottabad, 100km (62 miles) north-east of Islamabad. Yeah, I figured that out. Of course, the Death article didn't state that at the time, I had to look within the reference about April 29th. Now, the issue is whether we're going to say May 1st or May 2nd. I would say 1st, since that was the day over here, while it was May 2nd over there. And this is English Wikipedia and not the Arabic version.
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Somey |
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QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 4:02am) Now, the issue is whether we're going to say May 1st or May 2nd. I would say 1st, since that was the day over here, while it was May 2nd over there. And this is English Wikipedia and not the Arabic version. You should have it say "April 31st," just to add to the confusion. Besides, what's wrong with UTC? It's Universal, remember? And if you don't use that, you're supposed to use the local time - there are rules for this sort of thing, though I suspect most people on Wikipedia don't know about things like that.
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CharlotteWebb |
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QUOTE(A Horse With No Name @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 9:02am) QUOTE On Sunday a team of US forces undertook the operation in Abbottabad, 100km (62 miles) north-east of Islamabad. Or to paraphrase Lou Costello, Heyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Abbottabad! (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/biggrin.gif) Speaking of magic bullets, why not Frank Costello (the 54th anniversary of whose assassination attempt it now happens to be)? Also speaking of anniversaries, see [1]. (IMG: smilys0b23ax56/default/fear.gif)
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carbuncle |
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QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 9:02am) Now, the issue is whether we're going to say May 1st or May 2nd. I would say 1st, since that was the day over here, while it was May 2nd over there. And this is English Wikipedia and not the Arabic version.
I believe that English is the language used and has no bearing on time issues. You could try making the case for all dates and times to be recorded in UTC to avoid confusion, but I'm sure that would cause no end of argument about how it would just confuse people. And some really entertaining discussions about UTC versus GMT and why each is best.
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Silver seren |
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QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 2:38pm) QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 1:33am) The article on the death of JFK itself has subarticles. Bin Laden won't get that much.
Yes, there is no article on the Death of Lee Harvey Oswald. It's interesting to note that a mention of the killing of bin Laden now appears in Barack Obama (T-H-L-K-D), immediately prior to the sentence about Obama announcing his re-election campaign. U-S-A! U-S-A!I'll see if I can do something about that.
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lilburne |
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 9:33am) QUOTE(Somey @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 12:58am) I suppose a better comparison might be made to the Death of John Lennon (T-H-L-K-D), which is about half as long as the article on Lennon himself... except John Lennon wasn't the leader of a massive international terrorist network. Luigi Galleani (T-H-L-K-D) was the leader of such a network, but there's no separate article on his death - but that's probably because he died of a heart attack. Andreas Baader (T-H-L-K-D) was an international terrorist, but he wasn't really the leader of a massive network... but he committed suicide in prison to avoid execution, so that's probably not too encyclopedic. If he'd committed suicide in prison to avoid watching Doctor Who reruns, then maybe... Anyway, I guess it really doesn't matter in the end. There will surely be enough info on the operation itself to merit an article. Hell, there will be books about it, because it was a tough 10 year operation, and the endgame was 8 months. The article on the death of JFK itself has subarticles. Bin Laden won't get that much. (So) now that Obama has found Bin Laden do you think he'll also be able to find WMDs in Iraq?
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radek |
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QUOTE(Cedric @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 12:55pm) Hearing a lot of blather on the BBC right now about people doubting Obama's statement because no photographs of bin Laden's corpse have been released. A "deather" conspiracy theory seems to be forming. I wonder if the US Navy releases long form death certificates? I called that first. See my comment at the AN/I thread. Hell, it was my second thought when they interrupted Monk and told me Obama was going to make a speech.
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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anthony |
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QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 6:04pm) The thing is, if it's a hoax, then Osama will just end up releasing a video saying, "Hey, i'm still alive".
And the CIA will "prove" that the video is a fake. QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 8:00pm) But I don't believe that people should be starting such conspiracy theories without any real evidence for such as of yet. If inconsistencies start cropping up, then sure, but I don't see any reason to believe that version just yet.
So without any real evidence we should just believe whatever our fearless leader tells us to believe? I don't think it really much matters if bin Laden is dead or not. He hasn't really done anything in about a decade. What really matters is whether or not the US government is going to act as though he's dead. This post has been edited by anthony:
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Milton Roe |
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QUOTE(lilburne @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 8:42am) (So) now that Obama has found Bin Laden do you think he'll also be able to find WMDs in Iraq?
Nah, the man's good, but he's not THAT good. The WMDs are in Dick Cheney's Imaginationland. To get there, I don't know what you have to do. Perhaps be able to look out of Cheney's eyes like in Being John Malkovich, only it would be Being Dick Cheney. Might look like the intro to one of those Bond movies where you start out looking at the world, down a rifled gun barrel. Or perhaps in Cheney's case, an unrifled shotgun barrel. Who knows? If you're going to be that surreal you might as well try LSD. The years 2001-2008 may yet go down as the craziest, wackiest years in US history since 1968-73. Maybe since the civil war. I still don't quite believe any of it.
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Herschelkrustofsky |
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QUOTE(Milton Roe @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 5:56pm) The years 2001-2008 may yet go down as the craziest, wackiest years in US history since 1968-73.
It ain't over yet. QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 1:00pm) But I don't believe that people should be starting such conspiracy theories without any real evidence for such as of yet.
That horse is already out of the barn. The evidence that bin Laden was a significant figure in the 911 attacks is sketchy or "classified." He initially denied involvement, but later claimed responsibility, whether because he thought he could become a Jihadist superstar, or for other, more complicated reasons. QUOTE(carbuncle @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 12:45pm) A far better (and more likely) scenario is that bin Laden was captured in the raid and is currently in a US black site prison where he will be subject to illegal coercive methods in case he has any information that he is willing to give up. After all, why would the US give up a potential intelligence asset like that? Buried at sea? How convenient...
Your question is appropriate, but the time frame is misplaced. Bin Laden was an intelligence asset beginning in 1979. With any intelligence asset, it's very difficult to determine when one stops being one. Sometimes one is more of an asset dead than alive. It appears that the Pakistani ISI has known bin Laden's whereabouts for some time. The decision to whack him probably earned them some big reward bucks. However, the timing raises many questions. It coincides with the decision to shut down the NYC trial of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, which could have been embarrassing for many reasons.
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Detective |
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QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 10:02am) Now, the issue is whether we're going to say May 1st or May 2nd. I would say 1st, since that was the day over here, while it was May 2nd over there. And this is English Wikipedia and not the Arabic version.
And of course the English Wikipedia is only for Americans so should only consider American time zones. Let's ignore the many English-speaking contributors in for example South Africa, Australia and New Zealand. In fact, bin Laden was in Pakistan, not an Arabic-speaking country. While many Pakistanis will know some Arabic for religious reasons, I'd bet that more of them contribute to the English WP than the Arabic one. QUOTE(Silver seren @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 3:45pm) QUOTE(Herschelkrustofsky @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 2:38pm) It's interesting to note that a mention of the killing of bin Laden now appears in Barack Obama (T-H-L-K-D), immediately prior to the sentence about Obama announcing his re-election campaign. I'll see if I can do something about that. For a start, it's chronologically the wrong order. This post has been edited by Detective:
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Casliber |
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QUOTE(Peter Damian @ Tue 3rd May 2011, 12:44am) QUOTE(thekohser @ Mon 2nd May 2011, 2:44pm) That's the first thing I thought when I saw the spelling of the location this morning
This is rather a sad thing, but this is the second Important World News Item that I first heard from Wikipedia Review. What was the first?
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