The Elonka problem...or all editors are equal...., ....but some editors are more equal than others.... Options

[the fieryangel]

In browsing Jimbo's talkpage (not very original, I know, but still...)
I came across this complaint from a gentleman who seems like he's got a very big ax to grind.
He's been doing battle with Elonka for quite some time and it would seem that they aren't, uh, getting along or whatever you want to call it.

But I was intrigued by the material and I decide to look further. Elonka is pretty unfront on her userpage about who she is and what's she's into. She's a professional "game developer", so she fits right into the whole WP mindset. She also has an article about herself that she didn't start, but which she has edited from time to time. But, to be fair, she does fit the "notability" criteria (the Wall Street Journal, pre-Murdock buyout, in the references pretty much cinches that....), However, her article does read rather like an advertisement, I would have to say.

She's got this page, which is a list of her ancestors who she's considers to be famous and who she has written articles about, in many cases using her own website as a resource. And because this user is taking exception to the way that she's using this system to document her family members (who may or may not be famous...there's one Catholic saint, but most of the others are pretty borderline from what I can see), she's playing the "harassment" card to try to get him to lay off.

It would seem that she's got friends in high places, but this doesn't quite seem on the level. What does everybody think of this?

This post has been edited by the fieryangel: Thu 20th September 2007, 7:56pm

[tarantino]

In browsing Jimbo's talkpage (not very original, I know, but still...)
I came across this complaint from a gentleman who seems like he's got a very big ax to grind.
He's been doing battle with Elonka for quite some time and it would seem that they aren't, uh, getting along or whatever you want to call it.

That gentleman would be Matt57, minor member of Team America and major member of Team anti-Islam. More about him in some future post.

But I was intrigued by the material and I decide to look further. Elonka is pretty unfront on her userpage about who she is and what's she's into. She's a professional "game developer", so she fits right into the whole WP mindset. She also has an article about herself that she didn't start, but which she has edited from time to time. But, to be fair, she does fit the "notability" criteria (the Wall Street Journal, pre-Murdock buyout, in the references pretty much cinches that....), However, her article does read rather like an advertisement, I would have to say.

She's got this page, which is a list of her ancestors who she's considers to be famous and who she has written articles about, in many cases using her own website as a resource. And because this user is taking exception to the way that she's using this system to document her family members (who may or may not be famous...there's one Catholic saint, but most of the others are pretty borderline from what I can see), she's playing the "harassment" card to try to get him to lay off.

It would seem that she's got friends in high places, but this doesn't quite seem on the level. What does everybody think of this?

Her personal article has survived 2 AFDs, and she's failed 2 RFAs. Another interesting bit of trivia is she created Virgil Griffith's bio, while he (Romanpoet) has edited her bio and his own bio.

[thekohser]

...It would seem that she's got friends in high places, but this doesn't quite seem on the level. What does everybody think of this?

I would say that this is obvious family-promotion, but then again, so would appear to be Samuel C. Kohs and Ellis B. Kohs.

(But before JzG and Calton and company get all up in arms with their AFD per WP:COI actions, I'd like them to prove in any possible way that either of those Kohses are related to me by bloodline. If they can do that, I'd be fine with the articles being deleted, stupid as that itself may be.)

Greg

This post has been edited by thekohser: Fri 21st September 2007, 1:12am

[the fieryangel]

...It would seem that she's got friends in high places, but this doesn't quite seem on the level. What does everybody think of this?

I would say that this is obvious family-promotion, but then again, so would appear to be Samuel C. Kohs and Ellis B. Kohs.

(But before JzG and Calton and company get all up in arms with their AFD per WP:COI actions, I'd like them to prove in any possible way that either of those Kohses are related to me by bloodline. If they can do that, I'd be fine with the articles being deleted, stupid as that itself may be.)

Greg

Hmm, I've checked out Wikidashboard for this page, and she's number two on the list, having done 6,2% of the edits on her own article....that seems rather a lot to me. The others are
User:AnonEMouse
31 (7.1%) [18/13]
User:DepartedUser
20 (4.6%) [17/3]
User:Subversified
19 (4.3%) [13/6]
User:Matt Crypto
17 (3.9%) [5/12]
User:EVula
15 (3.4%) [7/8]
User:Threeafterthree
10 (2.3%) [6/4]
User:Chill doubt
10 (2.3%) [2/8]
User:Bitethesilverbullet
8 (1.8%) [3/5]
User:Dlyons493
8 (1.8%) [8/0)Cary Bass

Anybody notice any interesting connections here? Anonymous seems to spend quite a bit of time editing the Jenna Jameson article, so maybe there's not much of a connection to a lady who works in gaming and codes....but still.

Elonka herself has been one of the major players in the GREAT JUICE WAR of 2007 (and to think that CNN didn't even mention this once!), as is evidenced here. I don't know enough about juice to know who's right in this very lively discussion, with some very scientific evidence given, but she seems awfully procedural here.

Looking at some of those family articles, she's done 50% of the edits on Stanley_Dunin-her father, 40% of the edits on Antoni Dunin (her grandfather), In the article about her mother, Jimbo made this edit which removes "original research". which lead to a very interesting discussion on the talkpage.
Finally, Cary Bass makes a couple of edits...

Extremely strange.

This post has been edited by the fieryangel: Fri 21st September 2007, 8:47am

[the fieryangel]

Another interesting bit of trivia is she created Virgil Griffith's bio, while he (Romanpoet) has edited her bio and his own bio.

Not only did she create his bio, she's done 23% of all of the edits on it.

I've never been able to figure out what a "meatpuppet" was, but maybe this might be the right expression to use here?

Wikidashboard is a very useful tool, wouldn't you say?

This edit looks rather interesting as well...It's not proof that she's got an army of meatpuppets, but it could perhaps suggest that...

This post has been edited by the fieryangel: Fri 21st September 2007, 12:32pm

[Merzbow]

If the individuals in question are notable, who really gives a crap? If she added OR, this takes two seconds to remove, and move on. It's not like she's trying to advertise some company. What I find unacceptable is the obsession editors such as DreamGuy and Matt57 have about this woman. It's downright disturbing, and I can only speculate about the motives for such.

[Derktar]

If the individuals in question are notable, who really gives a crap? If she added OR, this takes two seconds to remove, and move on. It's not like she's trying to advertise some company. What I find unacceptable is the obsession editors such as DreamGuy and Matt57 have about this woman. It's downright disturbing, and I can only speculate about the motives for such.

Ah DreamGuy, that takes me back when I was still immersed in wikiland. He always had such a dislike for her, the only thing that rivaled that was perhaps his battles with Gabrielsimon and the werewolf/otherkin pages.

[the fieryangel]

If the individuals in question are notable, who really gives a crap? If she added OR, this takes two seconds to remove, and move on. It's not like she's trying to advertise some company. What I find unacceptable is the obsession editors such as DreamGuy and Matt57 have about this woman. It's downright disturbing, and I can only speculate about the motives for such.

Whether or not the individuals are notable is beside the point (for the record, I think that most of them are probably borderline notable, but just enough to merit an article).

This is obviously a COI problem which has been around for a very long time. Many other similar COI conflicts have been dealt with a much more clear manner and have been fixed. This one remains.

Why? I think that it's because she's established a powerbase of meatpuppets on WP and is using them to both edit articles (in exchange for creating and editing articles about these people and their POV issues) and to squelch discussion of this issue. It's cost her two RfA's, but it's working. It's highly probably that there is some gaming going on here.

That's the issue that I find interesting.

[KamrynMatika]

It's highly probably that there is some gaming going on here.

That's the issue that I find interesting.

Yes, Danny thought the same thing:

Oppose: Shameless self-promoter, who has figured out how to manipulate Wikipedia. Danny 15:43, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

[blissyu2]

It is, shall we say, suspicious when someone gets an article created about them in a favourable light, and at the same time they are a prolific editor, especially if they are not really particularly notable. Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters (David Mertz) has one, Adam Carr has one, and Elonka Durin has one. Also of course our good friend Ted Frank has one. There are many in the same boat.

But at the same time there are many very negative ones, which often are for users who end up getting banned.

Whether someone is a member of Wikipedia, and how they behave on Wikipedia should have ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with the bias of their article.

One thing that I think was particularly suspicious was Wikipedia's old lawyer (Danny?) who had a Wikipedia article suddenly spring up when he became their lawyer, then when he quit it suddenly disappeared.

Now, if Wikipedia is just a place for vanity articles, then it needs to acknowledge this. And if it won't acknowledge it, then we need to acknowledge it. I mean there is a place for such things, and such a place is a group blog, or some casual project.

[luke]

A quick search here shows this thread

Elonka Dunin

which seems to have some relevance