Searching Slim's edit summaries Options

[Piperdown]

There has not been a word uttered on WP about Jayjg lately. Funny, huh? Never happened, nothing to see here, move along. Wales' hypocrisy is a joke.

That depends... is there anything new to say? Why rehash the same stuff over and over without any purpose?

The same principle applies to SV, I believe. At a certain point, it just crosses the line into obsession, at which point any valid points are lost on anyone who happens to look into it, because it just looks crazy.

You didn't read what you just quoted. WP, not WR. Not a peep on WP about what Jayjg did. His account is still active. His checkuser/admin tools apear to still be on. No corrective action has been taken that is accountable to the "community".

Interesting that you assume I misread. I did not.

Well it's not really interesting that you and Jimmy Wales both think that what Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong. Yet they aren't editing anymore under those names. So what WP and Jimmy Wales thinks is that the best way to run his website is to allow his friends to betray his volunteers, and continue to administer/oversee WP with their names changed to protect the wikiguilty.

Fine example set there.

I'm sure the strawman response will be that they've been harrassed and are forced to edit (again) with sockpuppets. Crying harassment - the #1 Past-time of Wikipedia Abusers.

[Kato]

Well it's not really interesting that you and Jimmy Wales both think that what Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong.

I'm sure the strawman response will be that they've been harrassed and are forced to edit (again) with sockpuppets. Crying harassment - the #1 Past-time of Wikipedia Abusers.

C'mon Piperdown, now that is a strawman response. No one is saying that Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong. People are expressing their view that these relentless posts regurgitating their crimes are getting hard on the old eyes. Especially when there is so much other crap coming from the increasingly entrenched Wikipedia posse now we can barely keep up.

[Piperdown]

Well it's not really interesting that you and Jimmy Wales both think that what Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong.

I'm sure the strawman response will be that they've been harrassed and are forced to edit (again) with sockpuppets. Crying harassment - the #1 Past-time of Wikipedia Abusers.

C'mon Piperdown, now that is a strawman response. No one is saying that Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong. People are expressing their view that these relentless posts regurgitating their crimes are getting hard on the old eyes. Especially when there is so much other crap coming from the increasingly entrenched Wikipedia posse now we can barely keep up.

Geez....the person I was replying to was making a point that, on Wikipedia (not Review), that is OK that no one has bothered to...ahem...follow up on the Jayjg/SV situation in any manner that is apparent to the "community"....I believe you have crossed up the conversation to think I am talking about WR. The newbie was clear his reply to me was re: WP, not WR, regarding the backroom-only reaction to this situation.

[Sxeptomaniac]

Well it's not really interesting that you and Jimmy Wales both think that what Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong.

I'm sure the strawman response will be that they've been harrassed and are forced to edit (again) with sockpuppets. Crying harassment - the #1 Past-time of Wikipedia Abusers.

C'mon Piperdown, now that is a strawman response. No one is saying that Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong. People are expressing their view that these relentless posts regurgitating their crimes are getting hard on the old eyes. Especially when there is so much other crap coming from the increasingly entrenched Wikipedia posse now we can barely keep up.

Geez....the person I was replying to was making a point that, on Wikipedia (not Review), that is OK that no one has bothered to...ahem...follow up on the Jayjg/SV situation in any manner that is apparent to the "community"....I believe you have crossed up the conversation to think I am talking about WR. The newbie was clear his reply to me was re: WP, not WR, regarding the backroom-only reaction to this situation.

Interesting second set of assumptions about what I think... also false.

Digging up the same old dirt without any relevance to current issues isn't necessarily about follow-up; it's often about dragging around old offenses like a security blanket. Many people seem to consider a good portion of the old material history now, which means it's often somewhat interesting (and should be remembered), but bringing it up on a regular basis comes across as obsessive.

Interesting that you assume I misread. I did not.

O, I C, wikipedism is next to recentism …

Jonny

Not really. Recentism on WP is another issue entirely, IMO. It's one thing to keep track of history as it relates to the present, it's another thing to wallow in old issues as if people should be just as upset now as they were then.

[Herschelkrustofsky]

Well it's not really interesting that you and Jimmy Wales both think that what Jayjg (and SlimVirgin) have done nothing wrong. Yet they aren't editing anymore under those names. So what WP and Jimmy Wales thinks is that the best way to run his website is to allow his friends to betray his volunteers, and continue to administer/oversee WP with their names changed to protect the wikiguilty.

Fine example set there.

I'm sure the strawman response will be that they've been harrassed and are forced to edit (again) with sockpuppets. Crying harassment - the #1 Past-time of Wikipedia Abusers.

This argument has become rather convoluted, but I do think that Piperdown has a point here. It's not a question of the personal obnoxiousness of SV or Jayjg. It's that there is genuine corruption in the Wikipedia establishment, and a double standard. Lord knows how many honest editors have been hounded off the project by hooting lynch mobs of admins, for having made some trivial error, or no error at all. Then on the other hand, you have two darlings of the cabal, who have committed world class WikiCrimes, and they are put into the witness protection program and allowed to edit under new identities (in the case of SV -- I don't know of any attempt by Jayjg to do this.) If WP took its own policies seriously, they would be banned. I think it is to the credit of the Review that SV's attempt to slink back into the project as Sunsplash seems to have been nipped in the bud.

[alienus]

You seem to be evading the point: SV and Jayjg are perennial WP villians who have caused much harm, both to "the project" and to many individuals, but neither one has been taken to task for their actions. They're not part of the dead past, they're here right now and not going away. One of them is still editing under yet another sock, and both have admin rights on some of their accounts.

All this goes to show that, once Jimbo's your uncle, you're safe forever. For some reason, that doesn't seem to bother you. Fortunately, some of us care about justice and don't give up so easily. If you're truly apathetic, I suggest you show it by walking away right now.

Al

[LamontStormstar]

Errr... what is the point of this?

To find SlimVirgin's sockpuppets.

Why? If her accounts are abusive they will stand up as abusive by themselves. And there are a billion more abusive users abusing socks every day.

WR's stupid obsession with SV makes me sad.

SV was abusive and that never stopped her.

WP's allowing SV to continue to participate in WP makes me sad. But that's just me I guess. I expect people to follow their own rules and not wield power hypocritically.

Adminship of wikipedia isn't power. How ironic that the people WR is trying to take power from are the people it is giving power to.

Administrators are able to control articles, ban people just to control articles or else bully, defame them and lock pages, lie and slander people, and about all administrators back each other up just because a person is an adminstrator.

[KamrynMatika]

Administrators are able to control articles, ban people just to control articles or else bully, defame them and lock pages, lie and slander people, and about all administrators back each other up just because a person is an adminstrator.

Sorry. I meant real world power.

[guy]

Sorry. I meant real world power.

It depends on how much influence Wikipedia has in the real world.

[KamrynMatika]

Sorry. I meant real world power.

It depends on how much influence Wikipedia has in the real world.

The more time goes on, the more I realise how little influence it actually has. Sure, people look up stuff there, but I bet the vast majority of them don't even read the whole article; I think most people read critically enough that most innacuracies don't really matter. And who cares if someone thinks an electrion has a relative mass of 1⁄2000 of 1⁄1822.888? I'm beginning to see that WP's mediocrity is unimportant. If it wasn't there, people would still look stuff up on the internet and believe whatever they have read. The problem isn't with WP, it's with humans. We just suck.

And I've never actually seen evidence of SV's so-called 'pov pushing'.

I think WR spends so much time being immersed in WP's underbelly they can't see the wood for the trees.

[guy]

And I've never actually seen evidence of SV's so-called 'pov pushing'.

Have you looked?

[Jonny Cache]

Kamryn,

If you have come to The Wikipedia Review to ventilate your opinions about the phylum or genre of media into which Wikipedia falls, and to do that solely on the basis of the information and knowledge that you currently have — that's okay, people do that. If nothing else, it's good intellectual exercise to articulate one's experiences and to argue on behalf of one's opinions.

But it might be worth your while to do something a bit more productive, namely, to listen to other people's articulations, information, knowledge, observations, and opinions, and to consider the possiblity that some of that manifold of expression may be based on real experiences with the subjects under discussion.

People have a diversity of experiences — experiences of different things altogether and always to a degree different experiences of the same things.

Experience is always an expensive thing to get. People share their experiences in order to save the expense of having to learn everything for themselves. That is one of the reasons why we have our media of communication.

Sometimes the manifold of diverse experience can be integrated, sometimes it cannot.

But it is usually worth a try.

Jon Awbrey

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Tue 23rd October 2007, 1:12pm

[Sxeptomaniac]

You seem to be evading the point: SV and Jayjg are perennial WP villians who have caused much harm, both to "the project" and to many individuals, but neither one has been taken to task for their actions. They're not part of the dead past, they're here right now and not going away. One of them is still editing under yet another sock, and both have admin rights on some of their accounts.

All this goes to show that, once Jimbo's your uncle, you're safe forever. For some reason, that doesn't seem to bother you. Fortunately, some of us care about justice and don't give up so easily. If you're truly apathetic, I suggest you show it by walking away right now.

Al

Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?

The obsession I see over SV reads more like a desire to punish than for justice.

[jorge]

Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?

The obsession I see over SV reads more like a desire to punish than for justice.

"Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?" - code word for "I don't know what I'm talking about"

[Piperdown]

Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?

The obsession I see over SV reads more like a desire to punish than for justice.

"Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?" - code word for "I don't know what I'm talking about"

WP's form of justice is banning. I think that's what those who feel they were banned by SV for the same things (actually she's done much worse as she is able to do much worse with admin tools and Jajyg's wikiballs twisted in her hand) feel that a corrupt judge should be subject to his own brand of justice.

[Sxeptomaniac]

Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?

The obsession I see over SV reads more like a desire to punish than for justice.

"Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?" - code word for "I don't know what I'm talking about"

WP's form of justice is banning. I think that's what those who feel they were banned by SV for the same things (actually she's done much worse as she is able to do much worse with admin tools and Jajyg's wikiballs twisted in her hand) feel that a corrupt judge should be subject to his own brand of justice.

Ah, now I think you're getting to the heart of the matter. It's understandable that people who feel they've been mistreated would want some measure of vengeance. However, has it sometimes gone too far? I'm inclined to think so, and it seems there are others who have also come to a similar conclusion. I'm fully aware I could be wrong, as there's a lot of history involved, but it is worth considering.

Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?

The obsession I see over SV reads more like a desire to punish than for justice.

"Now why would I give a damn about proving anything to you?" - code word for "I don't know what I'm talking about"

It's not "code" for anything. It's a direct response to someone asking me to show my apathy "by walking away right now." I'm perfectly willing to enter into discussion, explaining my views and seeing what others have to say, but I'm not going to take a course of action solely to prove something to another person.

[Jonny Cache]

Sxeptomaniac,

Look, we get this all the time, so please excuse my impatience.

If you don't want to know what people are really saying, and you don't care to find out what they've been writing here for many moons now, and you don't have any new information or points of view to impart — and so far you have imparted neither — then please just walk away. Speaking just for myself, you are insulting my intelligence, you are insulting my motives — and not even doing that in an especially entertaining or novel way — and pretty soon now there will be nothing for it but to start insulting back.

I will of course try to do that in an entertaining or novel way, but I have no illusions about the limits of my creativity when it comes to that.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Tue 23rd October 2007, 6:04pm

[guy]

It's understandable that people who feel they've been mistreated would want some measure of vengeance.

It's not a question of vengeance. It's about the good of the project. Won't it be improved if the good, productive editors banned for fake reasons, solely because they've annoyed SlimVirgin, are unbanned?

[Jonny Cache]

It's understandable that people who feel they've been mistreated would want some measure of vengeance.

It's not a question of vengeance. It's about the good of the project. Won't it be improved if the good, productive editors banned for fake reasons, solely because they've annoyed SlimVirgin, are unbanned?

Sadly, all too sadly, it's far too late for that.

Wikipedia has shown itself to be, in John Seigenthaler Sr's words, a "flawed and irresponsible research tool" — and that is putting it mildly. The good faith that Wikipedia has squandered can never be redeemed. The good will and good work that Wikipedia has wasted can never be repaid. Much of the content can be salvaged, but the Entire Empire of Managerial Structure has proven itself time and time again to be utterly beyond redemption. The only salvation that remains is to dismantle it permanently and scatter the ashes for the fertilizer they are.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Tue 23rd October 2007, 8:16pm

[GlassBeadGame]

There has not been a word uttered on WP about Jayjg lately. Funny, huh? Never happened, nothing to see here, move along. Wales' hypocrisy is a joke.

That depends... is there anything new to say? Why rehash the same stuff over and over without any purpose?

The same principle applies to SV, I believe. At a certain point, it just crosses the line into obsession, at which point any valid points are lost on anyone who happens to look into it, because it just looks crazy.

The aspects of WP that make inquiry and understanding of SlimVirgin important are non-obvious. I would encourage you to read as many threads pertaining to the social networking and POV pushing aspects of the project as you can comfortably get to. Post constructively as much as possible. By the time you accumulate a significant level of posts you will probably begin to understand why so much attention is focused on her. If not revisit your concern that WR obsesses with SlimVirgin at that time. This is not just a matter of sour grapes. SlimVirgin's systematic manipulation of the content of WP raises the issues of her motivation and affiliations to a level of social responsibility.