JoshuaZ looks at Section 230, and gives me an idea... Options

[Joseph100]

Whoever reads my OTRS will probably be afraid to verify to me that it was received. Does anyone have an address where Mike Godwin would get a registered letter?

I don't have that, but according to Florida Division of Corporations the registered agent for the Foundation is:

CT CORPORATION SYSTEM
1200 S PINE ISLAND RD
PLANTATION FL 33324 US

You have to be kidding. That's almost as good as a P.O. box in the Cayman Islands. I had an attorney from Florida contact me several months ago. He was frustrated because he was trying to serve process on Wikimedia Foundation. He used one address he found, and that didn't work. I gave him another address for the Foundation that I found, and I don't know if that worked. I also gave him an address for Jimbo's residence, and pointed out that Jimbo was on the Board, but he's always traveling and it might be hard to find him, even if that residence address was still accurate.

I had to convince this attorney that as far as I know, there actually is a little office somewhere that's used by Cary Bass and Brion Vibber and (at the time) Carolyn Doran.

I think I'll ask Cade Metz (who interviewed me about SlimVirgin on November 28) for Godwin's telephone, and then call Godwin and ask him directly for 1) a fax number and 2) a street address where he personally is available to sign for registered mail.

About OTRS, I still haven't heard anything from them. How does that thing work? Since I've never seen it work, my impression is that at best, there's a list of emails, and volunteers get to cherry pick the ones they want to handle. The ones that don't get picked end up falling off the edge of the earth. Is that how it works?

USPS certified return receipt requested to the registered agent is sufficient for service Fla.R.Civ.P. 1.070(i)(2)(a) page 18 of the pdf document. If they won't sign for it that will be sufficient cause for a trial court to grant substitute service (usually ordinary mail and posting at the courthouse.) If they then default, good. Yeah, its a pretty mickey mouse way of conducting business.

The whole purpose of having a registered agent is to accept legal process on behalf of a corporation. That's exactly what they're there to do, and they're supposed to be there during normal business hours.

And I can tell you that the current address is new. I think it used to be 200 2nd Avenue S. #358, which seems to be a PO Box. They may have changed it precisely because that Florida Attorney Daniel was talking about got them in trouble for not having a legitimate Registered Agent. Or maybe they changed it because they're moving.

By the way, I heard Godwin is currently in San Francisco. Is the new office already set up there, or is he just helping Jimbo load servers on a truck for Wikia?

Per statue these are the people who would be qualified to receive lawful service on behalf of the wiki foundation.


# Florence Nibart-Devouard, Chair (term until June 2008)
# Jimmy Wales, Chairman Emeritus (term until December 2007)
# Jan-Bart de Vreede, Vice-chair (term until December 2007)
# Erik Möller, Executive Secretary (term until July 2009)
# Kat Walsh (term until July 2009)
# Frieda Brioschi (term until July 2009)
# Michael Davis
* Michael Davis (treasurer)



or any of these chuckle heads...

Wiki paid staff

1) Process against any private corporation, domestic or foreign, may be served:

(a) On the president or vice president, or other head of the corporation;

(b) In the absence of any person described in paragraph (a), on the cashier, treasurer, secretary, or general manager;

© In the absence of any person described in paragraph (a) or paragraph (b), on any director; or

(d) In the absence of any person described in paragraph (a), paragraph (b), or paragraph ©, on any officer or business agent residing in the state.

(2) If a foreign corporation has none of the foregoing officers or agents in this state, service may be made on any agent transacting business for it in this state.

(3)(a) As an alternative to all of the foregoing, process may be served on the agent designated by the corporation under s. 48.091. However, if service cannot be made on a registered agent because of failure to comply with s. 48.091, service of process shall be permitted on any employee at the corporation's principal place of business or on any employee of the registered agent.

(b) If the address provided for the registered agent, officer, director, or principal place of business is a residence or private mailbox, service on the corporation may be made by serving the registered agent, officer or director in accordance with s. 48.031.

(4) This section does not apply to service of process on insurance companies.

(5) When a corporation engages in substantial and not isolated activities within this state, or has a business office within the state and is actually engaged in the transaction of business therefrom, service upon any officer or business agent while on corporate business within this state may personally be made, pursuant to this section, and it is not necessary in such case that the action, suit, or proceeding against the corporation shall have arisen out of any transaction or operation connected with or incidental to the business being transacted within the state.

This post has been edited by Joseph100: Sun 16th December 2007, 10:25pm

[Daniel Brandt]

UPDATE: the registered agent changed 12/13/2005. Was that before or after your run-in with that attorney, Daniel?

I heard from that attorney on July 27, 2007.

[anthony]

Having a registered agent is 100% normal

Not only is it normal, it's a legal requirement. Florida Statutes 607.0501(:

(1) Each corporation shall have and continuously maintain in this state: ( A registered agent, who may be either: 1. An individual who resides in this state whose business office is identical with such registered office; 2. Another corporation or not-for-profit corporation as defined in chapter 617, authorized to transact business or conduct its affairs in this state, having a business office identical with the registered office; or 3. A foreign corporation or not-for-profit foreign corporation authorized pursuant to this chapter or chapter 617 to transact business or conduct its affairs in this state, having a business office identical with the registered office.

[Joseph100]

I could see filing papers to cease and desist publishing false and defamatory content, etc.

But I can't see filing a suit to recover damages. WMF doesn't have enough money in the bank to run their operation for another year.

YOU are wrong, they have assets worth millions.... the Wikipedia.org domain and trademarks as well as computer equipment servers etc.

That's what you get your judgment from, from the force sale thereof.

Getting their domain name or trademark is like Verizon getting MCI's domain name and trademark. They are a liability, not an asset.

And any computer gear would be worn out or obsolete by the time any suit comes to fruition.

If you want money, sue Bill Gates... the point is to get enough to pay for the cost of your action
against wikifoundation, and to disconnect it from the internet.

Btw, the wiki domain name is hardly a "liability" considering its worth a great deal of money, if it should be auctioned off.

[anthony]

UPDATE: the registered agent changed 12/13/2005. Was that before or after your run-in with that attorney, Daniel?

I heard from that attorney on July 27, 2007.

Searching the address "1200 S PINE ISLAND RD" on Scroogle, yeah, it looks to be the location of DHL Express.

[Joseph100]

Having a registered agent is 100% normal

Not only is it normal, it's a legal requirement. Florida Statutes 607.0501(:

(1) Each corporation shall have and continuously maintain in this state: ( A registered agent, who may be either: 1. An individual who resides in this state whose business office is identical with such registered office; 2. Another corporation or not-for-profit corporation as defined in chapter 617, authorized to transact business or conduct its affairs in this state, having a business office identical with the registered office; or 3. A foreign corporation or not-for-profit foreign corporation authorized pursuant to this chapter or chapter 617 to transact business or conduct its affairs in this state, having a business office identical with the registered office.

Your exactly right. They must have a registered agent, to conduct its affairs in the state of Florida.
And thats where your summons goes... The lowly receptionist there is qualified to receive said lawful service, in behave of Jimmy Wales and Florance per statues.

This post has been edited by Joseph100: Sun 16th December 2007, 10:34pm

[Moulton]

Lawsuits are soul-sucking undertakings. It's not worth the money.

[Joseph100]

Lawsuits are soul-sucking undertakings. It's not worth the money.

It "aint for the money" its for destroying wikipedia and warning others that
it's necessary to behave and respect the rule of law regarding misinformation
and Defamation.

[Moulton]

The Rule of Law isn't worth the stele that Hammurabi wrote it on.

[Joseph100]

The Rule of Law isn't worth the stele that Hammurabi wrote it on.

Then it's ok to go to Florida and get right with Jimmy the Juice man with a shinny chrome plated
nine millimeter justice dispenser???

With out law, there would be blood on the streets, see Somilaland and other exotic locals for
proof of that.

This post has been edited by Joseph100: Sun 16th December 2007, 11:02pm

[Moulton]

Do what you think is best, Joseph.

If you want to put your faith in the Rule of Law, who am I to deny you the ecstasy of your fervently held religious convictions?

[Joseph100]

Do what you think is best, Joseph.

If you want to put your faith in the Rule of Law, who am I to deny you the ecstasy of your fervently held religious convictions?

Whats your religious convictions, the rule of Darwin or a Nietzschen paradise?

This post has been edited by Joseph100: Sun 16th December 2007, 11:01pm

[Moulton]

Science and applied math.

[Joseph100]

Science and applied math.

John Locke

[the fieryangel]

Science and applied math.

Well, folks, if there's one place where money doesn't matter and where everybody sues everybody else , it's pop music;

Which is why I think that we should all be helping this case, since (if what I believe is true is true) money is no object here, but revenge is everything....

[Moulton]

John Locke?

Was he also a proponent of Neuro-Mathematical Systems Theology, too?

[Joseph100]

Science and applied math.

Well, folks, if there's one place where money doesn't matter and where everybody sues everybody else , it's pop music;

Which is why I think that we should all be helping this case, since (if what I believe is true is true) money is no object here, but revenge is everything....

AGREED

John Locke?

Was he also a proponent of Neuro-Mathematical Systems Theology, too?

"Second Treatise of Government"

[Rootology]

In regards to suing individual editors, is it any coincidence that Checkuser expires in 30 days?

Gee, I wonder how long a supoena would take to clear?

And actually, "outing" the proper street address of the WMF office would be a valuable service in case someone wanted to file suit. There is no right to privacy of physical locations in business, nor the expectation of the same.

This should be a new top priority project.

This post has been edited by Rootology: Sun 16th December 2007, 11:17pm

[Moulton]

Well, folks, if there's one place where money doesn't matter and where everybody sues everybody else , it's pop music.

See RIAA Folk Anthem.

[Joseph100]

In regards to suing individual editors, is it any coincidence that Checkuser expires in 30 days?

Gee, I wonder how long a supoena would take to clear?

And actually, "outing" the proper street address of the WMF office would be a valuable service in case someone wanted to file suit. There is no right to privacy of physical locations in business, nor the expectation of the same.

This should be a new top priority project.

Willful destruction of evidence is a crime and Jimbo and company could be charged with
contempt if unable to produce evidence required in a lawful motion of discovery.