Messianic Jayjgism, What Rough Beast? Options

[Jonny Cache]

I'm needling this thread for keeping track of developments on the Jayjg «WILL You BE Able To Watch My BACK» front.

BYOP …

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Thu 20th December 2007, 7:24pm

[Jonny Cache]

Here is the copy with address list from Gmane —

Give me a minute to format mo bettah —

Subj: Messianic Judaism
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:57:57 -0500
From: jayjg <jayjg99-…@public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>
To:
aviwiki-…@public.gmane.org,
"Pinchas Cohen" <PinchasC-…@public.gmane.org>,
"English Wikipedia" <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Beit Or" <beitor06-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Humus Sapiens" <humus.sapiens-…@public.gmane.org>
Newsgroups: gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.english

Someone has conveniently deleted all the criticism from the lead, in violation of [[WP:LEAD]].

'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Messianic_Judaism&diff=175803950&oldid=175525305'

I'm planning to go in tonight and do some re-adding and tagging. Will you be able to watch my back?

_______________________________________________

WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l-…@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Thu 20th December 2007, 7:44pm

[Somey]

BYOP...

"Bring Your Own Pun"?

I'd still like to know what he's got on his back that makes it so worth watching. Is he getting a tattoo? I'd have to assume it's not a flogging of some kind.

Ooh, maybe leeches! I haaaate leeches...

[Daniel Brandt]

Who has this email? I want the extended headers. There might be an originating IP address in it.

[Moulton]

The irony is that he stabbed himself in the back.

[GlassBeadGame]

The irony is that he stabbed himself in the back.

Doran has their chests covered.

[Somey]

Who has this email? I want the extended headers. There might be an originating IP address in it.

It was sent to wikien-l by mistake, so I don't think you'd see anything like that in there...?

[Jonny Cache]

Who has this email? I want the extended headers. There might be an originating IP address in it.

Here's the raw source view of the Gmane copy, but I'm not on the list, so I don't know if this is all.

Path: news.gmane.org!not-for-mail
From: jayjg <jayjg99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Newsgroups: gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.english
Subject: Messianic Judaism
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:57:57 -0500
Lines: 14
Approved: news@gmane.org
Message-ID: <6a8d9d700712200757j53c534e5m3c44be8966a7e7b8@mail.gmail.com>
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
NNTP-Posting-Host: lo.gmane.org
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
X-Trace: ger.gmane.org 1198166324 4116 80.91.229.12 (20 Dec 2007 15:58:44 GMT)
X-Complaints-To: usenet@ger.gmane.org
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:58:44 +0000 (UTC)
To: aviwiki-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org, "Pinchas Cohen" <PinchasC-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>,
"English Wikipedia" <wikien-l-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>,
"Beit Or" <beitor06-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>, "Humus Sapiens" <humus.sapiens-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
Original-X-From: wikien-l-bounces-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org Thu Dec 20 16:58:54 2007
Return-path: <wikien-l-bounces-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>
Envelope-to: gslwe-wikien-l-700-Uylq5CNFT+jYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org
Original-Received: from lists.wikimedia.org ([91.198.174.5])
by lo.gmane.org with esmtp (Exim 4.50)
id 1J5NnG-0005RC-HU
for gslwe-wikien-l-700-Uylq5CNFT+jYtjvyW6yDsg@public.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 16:58:42 +0100
Original-Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:42259 helo=lily.knams.wikimedia.org)
by lily.knams.wikimedia.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
(envelope-from <wikien-l-bounces-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>)
id 1J5Nmj-0002WA-OS; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:58:12 +0000
Original-Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.232]:31727)
by lily.knams.wikimedia.org with esmtp (Exim 4.63)
(envelope-from <jayjg99-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>) id 1J5Nme-0002Vy-0O
for wikien-l-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 15:58:06 +0000
Original-Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h27so31556wxd.3
for <wikien-l-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org>;
Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:58:03 -0800 (PST)
Original-Received: by 10.142.144.16 with SMTP id r16mr107298wfd.97.1198166277735;
Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:57:57 -0800 (PST)
Original-Received: by 10.142.105.18 with HTTP; Thu, 20 Dec 2007 07:57:57 -0800 (PST)
Content-Disposition: inline
X-BeenThere: wikien-l-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
List-Id: English Wikipedia <wikien-l.lists.wikimedia.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l>,
<mailto:wikien-l-request-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org?subject=unsubscribe>
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Errors-To: wikien-l-bounces-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
Xref: news.gmane.org gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.english:87568
Archived-At: <http://permalink.gmane.org/gmane.science.linguistics.wikipedia.english/87568>

Someone has conveniently deleted all the criticism from the lead, in violation of [[WP:LEAD]].

'http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Messianic_Judaism&diff=175803950&oldid=175525305'

I'm planning to go in tonight and do some re-adding and tagging. Will you be able to watch my back?

_______________________________________________
WikiEN-l mailing list
WikiEN-l-RusutVdil2icGmH+5r0DM0B+6BGkLq7r@public.gmane.org
To unsubscribe from this mailing list, visit:
http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikien-l

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Thu 20th December 2007, 9:10pm

[Rootology]

Ha ha ha, Jay you stupid fuck.

To: aviwiki@gmail.com, "Pinchas Cohen" <PinchasC@gmail.com>,
"English Wikipedia" <wikien-l@lists.wikimedia.org>,
"Beit Or" <beitor06@gmail.com>, "Humus Sapiens" <humus.sapiens@gmail.com>


Ha ha ha ha!

I'll just add that the fact he needs "backup" from a bannable offense, canvassing, shows that whatever his position is in this case is crap and likely in violation of other policies.

Has anyone called bullshit on Wikipedia yet?

What on earth? Why are his contributions out of order?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...er&target=Jayjg

[Derktar]

It's pretty quiet on this issue at the wiki-en l at the momment, except for a few comments, including a few nice jabs at Jayjg courtesy of Doc.

[Samuel Culper Sr.]

What on earth? Why are his contributions out of order?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...er&target=Jayjg

Ummm... because those are different days??? You lost me.

[Rootology]

What on earth? Why are his contributions out of order?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...er&target=Jayjg

Ummm... because those are different days??? You lost me.

Huh, it was actually displaying out of order for me, as in 3:10 to 3:22 to 3:10. But now it's not. Weird!

I wonder what the significance of his oddball bursts of editing are. Probably just trying to garner attention, since people were ignoring his irrelevant role.

[Saltimbanco]

Let's see, now, based Jayjg's admission that the message was erroneously sent to the mailing list, but was instead intended for a select group of recipients (did anyone tell Jimbo about this email list, or was it one of those secret ones that he doesn't know anything about?), how does it fare when considered according to Wikipedia's Canvassing Guideline?

Someone conveniently made a table there of different aspects to consider and what would make an action tend to be "disruptive canvassing" as opposed to a "friendly notice."

So, Scale: limited is friendly; massive is disruptive. I'd say he gets "friendly" on that, although see below regarding intent versus action.
Message: neutral is friendly; biased is disruptive. Lean toward "disruptive," because he stated his editing intent and asked for support rather than just asking for people to see what they think.
Audience: nonpartisan is friendly; partisan is disruptive. Ah, oops! The term given for this is, "Votestacking."
Transparency: open is friendly; secret is disruptive. Well, do we judge intent or action? If action, then it was just a friendly open reminder to the whole mailing list; if intent, the term given is "Stealth Canvassing."

So what comes next? The, "Ha ha! I wasn't thinking; isolated instance; won't ever happen again!" position, or the "The Cossacks are practically at my door, and of course I have to do do all I can to defend (mainstream) Judaism, and of course I must do it in secret!" defense? Or will we just see "doc" get banned, and insta-ban for anyone else who ever mentions the matter again.

This post has been edited by Saltimbanco: Thu 20th December 2007, 9:59pm

[Saltimbanco]

I can't wait to see Jimbo's "concern" expressed: "I would be concerned ..."

This post has been edited by Saltimbanco: Thu 20th December 2007, 10:30pm

[Aloft]

Oh man, classic.

Don't worry JayJG, we've got your back.

[dogbiscuit]

I note that AVI replies, but does not declare his interest in the list (perhaps he is unaware at this point).

Whether it was inappropriately sent or not, the aticle _was_ evicerated
after months of discussion.

--Avi

The dangerous, must be banned, troll editor notes that they moved information out of the lead, it was not deleted.

[tarantino]

Here is the copy with address list from Gmane —

Subj: Messianic Judaism
Date: Thu, 20 Dec 2007 10:57:57 -0500
From: jayjg <jayjg99-…@public.gmane.org>
Reply-To: English Wikipedia <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>
To:
aviwiki-…@public.gmane.org,
"Pinchas Cohen" <PinchasC-…@public.gmane.org>,
"English Wikipedia" <wikien-l-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Beit Or" <beitor06-…@public.gmane.org>,
"Humus Sapiens" <humus.sapiens-…@public.gmane.org>

Beit Or used to be known as Pecher.
He abandoned that account after Requests_for_arbitration/His_excellency, The same thing that Proabivouac did with his previous account.

18:00, 28 September 2006 Beit Or (Talk | contribs) New user account
08:19, 27 September 2006 Proabivouac (Talk | contribs) New user account

Note the last message on Pecher's talk page is from Matt57.

17:39, 1 October 2006 Matt57 (Talk | contribs) New user account

[jorge]

What on earth? Why are his contributions out of order?

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...er&target=Jayjg

That got me at first, but it's just because he has a bot posting his edits at the same time each day. If you want to see weird edits check out the first two edits in his edit history 1., 2..

[Aloft]

Something else to think about... His stated intent to edit the article "tonight" would break from his odd editing pattern of the past few days.

Were these edits going to be made with another account?

[dtobias]

After looking at the diff involved, I don't necessarily disagree with Jayjg about the problematic nature of the edit, doing fairly massive removals of critical stuff from the article with a very misleading edit summary. It's just his method of combatting it, by canvassing "privately" (except when he slips up and posts it to a public list) among his friends so they "have his back" when he reverts, that's problematic.