Jim62sch Arbitration Case Options

[KStreetSlave]

There is no obligation. Anyone that ever thought there was one is stupid. Certainly not one from contractor or civilian agency to DoD.

Unless orangemarlin works for the inspector general's office, or CID/NCIS/OSI, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

[One]

There is no obligation. Anyone that ever thought there was one is stupid. Certainly not one from contractor or civilian agency to DoD.

Unless orangemarlin works for the inspector general's office, or CID/NCIS/OSI, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

You would think that settles the matter, but OrangeMarlin insists that he still has an obligation anyway. Swatjester makes one hell of a reply. ("I know it may be hard for an officer, but try using some common sense.") If I was in Washington, I'd by the man a drink. Well, for this, and for serving in Iraq.

[GlassBeadGame]

There is no obligation. Anyone that ever thought there was one is stupid. Certainly not one from contractor or civilian agency to DoD.

Unless orangemarlin works for the inspector general's office, or CID/NCIS/OSI, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

You would think that settles the matter, but OrangeMarlin insists that he still has an obligation anyway. Swatjester makes one hell of a reply. ("I know it may be hard for an officer, but try using some common sense.") If I was in Washington, I'd by the man a drink. Well, for this, and for serving in Iraq.

Jesus, is it just me or is it petty beyond all comprehension to even consider ratting-out a soldier for editing Wikipedia, whether you have an "obligation" or not?

[Moulton]

Crime and punishment regulatory models are just so bloody problematic, eh?

[Jonny Cache]

I thought they had a «Don't Ask, Don't Tell» policy about this sort of thing.

Jonny

[KStreetSlave]

I thought they had a «Don't Ask, Don't Tell» policy about this sort of thing.

Jonny

We don't ban wikipedians, we ban editing wikipedia...

[Sxeptomaniac]

There is no obligation. Anyone that ever thought there was one is stupid. Certainly not one from contractor or civilian agency to DoD.

Unless orangemarlin works for the inspector general's office, or CID/NCIS/OSI, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

You would think that settles the matter, but OrangeMarlin insists that he still has an obligation anyway. Swatjester makes one hell of a reply. ("I know it may be hard for an officer, but try using some common sense.") If I was in Washington, I'd by the man a drink. Well, for this, and for serving in Iraq.

Jesus, is it just me or is it petty beyond all comprehension to even consider ratting-out a soldier for editing Wikipedia, whether you have an "obligation" or not?

Petty, but not beyond comprehension for anyone who's run into those guys before. I think the only thing that limits what they are willing to do in order to drive off perceived opponents is what they think they can get away with.

As far as OM's officer status, it's clear from his comments that he's a reserve officer. Given some stories I've heard from friend who trained reserves a few years back, being a reserve officer is not in itself a whole lot to brag about.

This post has been edited by Sxeptomaniac: Mon 7th January 2008, 8:59pm

[Moulton]

I think the only thing that limits what they are willing to do in order to drive off perceived opponents is what they think they can get away with.

Documenting some of their shenanigans is one way of estimating what they think they can get away with.

[KStreetSlave]

There is no obligation. Anyone that ever thought there was one is stupid. Certainly not one from contractor or civilian agency to DoD.

Unless orangemarlin works for the inspector general's office, or CID/NCIS/OSI, which I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

You would think that settles the matter, but OrangeMarlin insists that he still has an obligation anyway. Swatjester makes one hell of a reply. ("I know it may be hard for an officer, but try using some common sense.") If I was in Washington, I'd by the man a drink. Well, for this, and for serving in Iraq.

Jesus, is it just me or is it petty beyond all comprehension to even consider ratting-out a soldier for editing Wikipedia, whether you have an "obligation" or not?

Petty, but not beyond comprehension for anyone who's run into those guys before. I think the only thing that limits what they are willing to do in order to drive off perceived opponents is what they think they can get away with.

As far as OM's officer status, it's clear from his comments that he's a reserve officer. Given some stories I've heard from friend who trained reserves a few years back, being a reserve officer is not in itself a whole lot to brag about.

OM self admitted that he was a Lieutenant Commander in the Navy, which according to the article is the equivalent to a Major. I don't know about the navy, but in the air force, where VO is, reserve majors are probably more common than field mice.

I think I read somewhere that VO is an active duty Master Sergeant. But I'm not sure on that.

[Samuel Culper Sr.]

I think I read somewhere that VO is an active duty Master Sergeant. But I'm not sure on that.

Yep. Master Sergeant. I have his name/rank/unit/even a picture of him, his wife and kids. I'm sleuthy.

[dogbiscuit]

I can't think of a worse way of losing support than saying "I work for the IRS, I have a duty to save your tax dollars", aside from "I work for the IRS in the IT department, I have a duty to save your tax dollars". I can see a petition to cut back on the IRS IT spend forming as I type.

[Moulton]

So lemme see if I have this straight...

There are a whole bunch of government employees — characters who presumably fervently believe in the Hammurabic Method of Social Regulation — all of whom are playing the Crime and Punishment MMPORG for keeps. Is that about right?

[KStreetSlave]

So lemme see if I have this straight...

There are a whole bunch of government employees — characters who presumably fervently believe in the Hammurabic Method of Social Regulation — all of whom are playing the Crime and Punishment MMPORG for keeps. Is that about right?

It's funny, I have extremely high respect for reservists: I've seen them perform on par with and often better than active duty forces. Except, there are a few reservists in EVERY unit that don't understand the citizen/soldier different hats. Same goes for police reservists, and volunteer firefighters too. They act like Dwight Schrute in The Office, or the guy who played the fat cop from Hot Fuzz in Spaced (as the TA guy) for you UK people.

You know the type: they always talk about their authoritarian job as if anyone else cares. They always want to carry around their implements of the trade "just to be ready"....a gun, a knife, a CPR kit, a pair of latex gloves, etc. They don't display the normal characteristics of how people react when they observe a situation: they think about how they can be the hero. (Which, funny enough, takes them completely out of the range of people who become actual heros.) OrangeMarlin strongly strikes me as that kind of person. Making up some fake obligation just to make people think that he's a "good soldier", maybe impress the ladies with his patriotism, and the like. Durova reminds me of that kind of person too.

Funny, that. Wasn't Durova a naval reservist too?

[Viridae]

So lemme see if I have this straight...

There are a whole bunch of government employees — characters who presumably fervently believe in the Hammurabic Method of Social Regulation — all of whom are playing the Crime and Punishment MMPORG for keeps. Is that about right?

It's funny, I have extremely high respect for reservists: I've seen them perform on par with and often better than active duty forces. Except, there are a few reservists in EVERY unit that don't understand the citizen/soldier different hats. Same goes for police reservists, and volunteer firefighters too. They act like Dwight Schrute in The Office, or the guy who played the fat cop from Hot Fuzz in Spaced (as the TA guy) for you UK people.

You know the type: they always talk about their authoritarian job as if anyone else cares. They always want to carry around their implements of the trade "just to be ready"....a gun, a knife, a CPR kit, a pair of latex gloves, etc. They don't display the normal characteristics of how people react when they observe a situation: they think about how they can be the hero. (Which, funny enough, takes them completely out of the range of people who become actual heros.) OrangeMarlin strongly strikes me as that kind of person. Making up some fake obligation just to make people think that he's a "good soldier", maybe impress the ladies with his patriotism, and the like. Durova reminds me of that kind of person too.

Funny, that. Wasn't Durova a naval reservist too?

The implements of the trade bt is a bit of a blurred line. My father was a CFA member and used to have his gear permanently in the back of the car, so he could jump in and go as soon as the siren went off. Not something he harped on, or even really spoke about in day to day life. It was just soemthing he did.

[dogbiscuit]

Wake up at the back there! Yes you, laddy. You behind the bike sheds. Stand still, laddy!

The arbcom case has closed. Nothing much to see:

4) A user's conduct outside of Wikipedia is generally not subject to Wikipedia policies or sanctions. This includes actions such as sending private e-mails or commenting on Wikipedia and its users in other forums. However, in truly extraordinary circumstances, a user who engages in egregiously disruptive off-wiki conduct endangering the project and its participants may be subject to sanction. An example is a user whose off-wiki activities directly threaten to damage another user's real-world life or employment in retaliation for his or her editing.

Passed 9 to 0 at 13:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC).

Cake and eat it?

Compliance with basic policy

6) An editor who feels unable for legal, professional, or other reasons to comply with Wikipedia's essential policies, such as the policy against engaging in harassment or making threats, should seek guidance and attempt to determine whether it is possible to reconcile what he or she perceives as the competing obligations.

Passed 10 to 0 at 13:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC).

...appears to hint that Jim was in the wrong.

Jim62sch

1) During 2007, Jim62sch (talk · contribs) sent a communication to another user that could reasonably be construed as threatening or harassing. That user was involved in a content and policy dispute with Jim62sch at the time. Based on our review of the communication in question, including its tone, content, and timing, we conclude that it was intended to be taken as threatening or harassing, rather than as a good-faith attempt to alert a fellow editor to a legal or other concern. At a minimum, it was reasonably likely from the face of the communication that the recipient could construe it as a threat.

Passed 10 to 0 at 13:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC).

...slapped wrist?

Jim62sch instructed

1) Jim62sch is instructed to refrain from making any comments to another user that could reasonably be construed as harassing, threatening, or bullying. Any further harassment, threats, or bullying will result in a block or ban per enforcement provisions of this case.

Passed 10 to 0 at 13:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC).

...did that sting a bit? I doubt it. Still, a formal warning for one of the beloved.

But wait...

Jim62sch

1) Should Jim62sch make any comment that is or could reasonably be construed as of a harassing, threatening, or bullying nature, he may be blocked for an appropriate period of time by any uninvolved administrator. Any such action should be logged at Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Jim62sch#Log of blocks and bans and should also be reported to the Arbitration Committee.

Passed 10 to 0 at 13:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC).

Now, that is exactly what I would have wanted to see. Jim is now on a short leash. Of course, anything he reacts to may be excused as being baited.

So, seems to me to be a sensible ruling. Nothing that is written in a way to humiliate Jim, but acknowledges that he went too far. However, I note that the remedy is not about specific email threats, but acknowledges that his general behaviour on Wikipedia has gone beyond the bounds of acceptability. Hmmm, how did OrangeMerlin escape that sanction too? Off for a rummage.