JzG gets away scot free, WR maligned as "bunch of nutcases" Options

[thekohser]

If Guy Chapman told another admin to "F*** off and never ever post here ever again, period. You are persona non grata. If you want to communicate with me, do it via intermendiaries or the noticeboards," you would think that his privileges of leading the way on Wikipedia would be curtailed.

Not so.

The more things change...

[dogbiscuit]

If Guy Chapman told another admin to "F*** off and never ever post here ever again, period. You are persona non grata. If you want to communicate with me, do it via intermendiaries or the noticeboards," you would think that his privileges of leading the way on Wikipedia would be curtailed.

Not so.

The more things change...

It really is quite sad. Posting very personal information simply to justify why it is acceptable to tell anyone else to fuck off. Wikibreak indeed.

[Kato]

Just to clarify:

JzG to another administrator who has unblocked someone Guy blocked earlier:

Fuck off and never ever post here ever again, period. You are persona non grata. If you want to communicate with me, do it via intermendiaries or the noticeboards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=186794612

and...

Fuck off back to Wikipedia Review.

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=...oldid=186757325

-----------------------------------------------

This later exchange gives it more context :

I don't disagree with the block on the user because Sannleikur was clearly being disruptive with his editing. Despite that though, you were overly anxious with assuming there was a sockpuppet without any evidence being provided. Then on top of that you were grossly incivil about it and decided to wheel war the block once it was removed. [83] The wheel warring and incivil comments is something you could have done without. — Save_Us † 12:52, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

As is trolling me while I'm arranging my father's funeral, of course. But that's an aside. Even the most cursory inspection shows that this account stinks of week-old socks, and unblocking is inexplicable given that the user had not even requested unblock - the only comment I can find was made at Wikipedia Review by someone other than the user. Guy (Help!) 13:15, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[Jonny Cache]

On A Related Note …

This one qualifies for Quote Of The Wik —

Wikipedia is not and never will be, therapy.

— Viridae, 25 January 2008 UTC 12:05

No, that's our job.

Jonny

This post has been edited by Jonny Cache: Fri 25th January 2008, 3:42pm

[Kato]

JzG writes after being called for incivility:

I hate it when people provoke me to anger. I would point out: on Jan 20, Dad was being treated in hospital but with a prognosis that did not include death; we were waiting to find out if he'd had another stroke. He was weak but conscious and alert. On Jan 21, at around 9pm, he was dead. See how many edits or other actions I've made since Jan 21.

See how JzG treated a leading advocate for the Chronic Fatigue Syndrome patients community in the UK, Angela Kennedy, whose own daughter is seriously ill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Angela_Kennedy

Kennedy, alongside a couple of other patient advocates were banned after JzG hoodwinked Jimbo to give the order. The episode was highly dubious and will come out in due course (as its relationship with other WP events is quite important), but there were so many other corrupt things going on at that time that it got brushed under the carpet.

[Nathan]

It's been brought up before, and I'll bring it up again, if he's dealing with a family loss/arranging a funeral, he shouldn't even be online. He should deal with the stuff then come back. His being on Wikipedia is a danger not only to himself but to the project (and that's different from any other day how?)

It's exactly those kind of attacks that I figured would happen. If you're dealing with your own grief, it makes you more irritable (I don't play a psychiatrist on WR or TV, this is from my own experience) and you're prone to snap at the drop of a hat.

He should be blocked for a week for his own good but we all know that won't happen.

[Peter Damian]

JzG writes after being called for incivility:

Kennedy, alongside a couple of other patient advocates were banned after JzG hoodwinked Jimbo to give the order. The episode was highly dubious and will come out in due course (as its relationship with other WP events is quite important), but there were so many other corrupt things going on at that time that it got brushed under the carpet.

Always difficult to tease out the truth even following the edit history. What was the background to the Kennedy case, in a sentence?

[Kato]

As this is WP I can't give you one sentence, but this is my best shot:

• Simon Wessely is a very controversial adviser to the UK government on the subject of ME/CFS who spins the line that the syndrome is psychosomatic
• Patient groups disagree and have their own medical advisers
• Wessely is targeted on another site by the many unrelated CFS sufferers who hate his guts
• From that Wessley then goes to WP to blame Angela Kennedy (who was editing Wikipedia) for the criticisms of him that appear in his own biography, claiming that Angela Kennedy was somehow involved in the offsite attacks.
• Angela Kennedy, leading advocate for CFSyndrome patients in the UK, whose own daughter is seriously ill, had nothing to do with these off-site incidents.
• JzG appears and not only sides with Wessely's people but agitates further against the already falsely accused Kennedy to get her banned. Making up all manner of further false claims about Kennedy.
• Jimbo buys the slur and gives the go ahead
• Angela now has a banned tag on her user page without any recourse, due process or judicial review.
• Her daughter is still seriously ill.

Here's Angela Kennedy's summary where she describes a pattern of lies and defamation made by JzG.

EDIT: Just above Angela's statement, another respected patient advocate describes JzG's actions as "inflammatory and there is no basis whatsoever for any such implication, and any such implication would be false".

ADDITIONAL MATERIAL : JzG gives his account of events on his own wiki here. This all sounds very reasonable from his point of view, as you might imagine. But there's a major flaw from the start. As is Guy's way, he has entered into a dispute where he has no idea of the wider picture. And judging by his remarks, he certainly has no concept of the consensus of patient groups, who make up a majority of opinions on what is still a controversial and little understood syndrome. He's obviously never spoken to a long term ME sufferer, nor made any efforts to understand the history of the condition. If he had, he'd realise how controversial Wessley's position is, how it flies in the face of years of patient's testimonies and how sufferers are now furious that Wessley has maneuvered himself into a government advisory role while pushing untested theories that the syndrome is psychosomatic.

Instead, JzG suddenly sees a few sufferers adding blatant anti-Wessley material, sees them as "enemies of the Wiki" and begins tracking down anyone who shows up with a view that differs from the already extremely controversial view pushed by Wessley. JzG begins "exchanging a few emails" with Wessley, and has now made up his mind. Those who wish to add material critical of Wessley's position "think Wessely is the Antichrist". Guy now believes the "distinction between mental and physical illness is largely spurious" and again according to Guy, the patient groups reject Wessley's therapy techniques "on ideological grounds".

JzG is hence now an active participant in the debate with his own POV. Along come more patient groups, including Angela Kennedy. To Guy, they are all now "enemies of the Wiki" who are wrong about the world. And it doesn't matter if these groups have documentation to support their claims such as this, they can just fuck off.

Banned.

[Amarkov]

Well, I did think he would start using this as an excuse to go do whatever he wants without fear of retribution.

[Aloft]

JzG strikes me as incredibly sad and pathetic. I used to think he was simply a jerk, but lately it's become more and more obvious that Wikipedia fills some hole he has in his life. Viridae was wrong; Wikipedia IS therapy for people like him. It's their own version of Second Life, where they can gain the status among their online friends that they could never achieve in real life. He is a superhero in his imaginary world filled with sockpuppets and trolls.

And more than anything, that's sad.

[Amarkov]

I just realized, JzG seems to be quite deliberately avoiding my name. If most people here brought it up, I'm sure he'd be quite active about saying "Gregory Kohs mentioned it" or "WordBomb mentioned it" or "Dan T mentioned it". But when I bring it up, I'm just "someone other than the user". Why?

[Derktar]

Poor Viridae, it's quite fascinating to see the tables turned around and see someone maligned for doing the right thing, merely trying to bring something to everyone's attention.

Oh and good on ya Neil! You did what should have been done.

I love the resolved check mark in the section too, as if all the problems will go away and JzG will never repeat this.

[Miltopia]

If there's an afterlife, I wonder if Guy's father realizes that his son is using his death as an excuse to go batshit in his online pseudo-power game?

[Error59]

Who said Wikipedia wasn't an MMORPG?

JZG uses "Death of Father" for a +6 buff to Immunity.

[dtobias]

JZG uses "Death of Father" for a +6 buff to Immunity.

There's an urban legend that a death of somebody close to a college student guarantees the student straight A's in all his classes... this has been claimed as fact many times in TV shows and movies (including "CSI NY" last night), but nobody can actually cite a specific college that has such a policy. On the other hand, Wikipedia lacks such a specific policy too, but that doesn't stop the well-connected from invoking it anyway. (Ignore All Rules!)

[Moulton]

Near-Death Experiences (including the death of a close family member) tends to focus a person's attention on what's really important in life. In college, what's important is to study hard and learn well.

[wikiwhistle]

It's been brought up before, and I'll bring it up again, if he's dealing with a family loss/arranging a funeral, he shouldn't even be online.

We all need something to do as light relief sometimes

He may have made the odd edit or two which is not tosser-ish in the last couple of weeks. As to his dad, I'm sure he'd be happy to see JzG doing what makes him happy, no matter how pitiful being an admin on wiki might seem to many in the outside world.

[Miltopia]

Wait, you read Guy's edits and actually think he's happy?

[dtobias]

Near-Death Experiences (including the death of a close family member) tends to focus a person's attention on what's really important in life. In college, what's important is to study hard and learn well.

...and on Wikipedia, what's important is to tell the right people to "fuck off"?

[Miltopia]

YES